[CleanSlate]

I can hardly be in a position to wave pointy fingers at the OP for smoking 3-5 cigs a day when my own family smokes like crazy, and although I don't smoke, I have another vice -- craft beer.

But finding pleasure and reward in smoking while saying he's not addicted sounds like denial to me. At least I freely admit I'm addicted to craft brews...

[MongolianAbroad]

(07-02-2017 10:02 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Spaniard88, dude, we get it. Thank you for the anti-smoking lectures. Do you have a t-shirt I can wear to show my anti tobacco pride?

The OP started the thread to get exactly that, counterpoints.

(07-02-2017 10:02 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Smoker girls also tend to be sluts for easy pickings and openers.

Exactly, lower quality people. It just depends on what you're looking for in life. No shame in that, you do you, the fellow asked for input, the thread is still active, there's a variety of opinion, it's all good.

[The Beast1]

(07-03-2017 12:32 AM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  

(07-02-2017 10:02 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Spaniard88, dude, we get it. Thank you for the anti-smoking lectures. Do you have a t-shirt I can wear to show my anti tobacco pride?

The OP started the thread to get exactly that, counterpoints.

(07-02-2017 10:02 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Smoker girls also tend to be sluts for easy pickings and openers.

Exactly, lower quality people. It just depends on what you're looking for in life. No shame in that, you do you, the fellow asked for input, the thread is still active, there's a variety of opinion, it's all good.

[zoom]

Guys who have never smoked before should not be commenting in this thread.

[komatiite]

Looks like the G has been reading the Soy-infused replies by Spaniard88 and the other anti smoking haters in here. He has been posting old tweets all day about the benefits of Sparking up a Smoke:

[/url]

[url=https://twitter.com/michaelporfirio/status/848708820843065344]

Checkmate Spaniard88!

[komatiite]

The hits keep coming. Here is some advice from the People's Champ, Spaniard88.

[url=https://twitter.com/michaelporfirio/status/881910527806582784][/url]

The rest is up to you...

[debeguiled]

Smoke if you want to smoke, but don't hamster.

The negatives far outweigh the positives.

Don't build up some fragile structure of rationalizations to justify taking up a bad habit and convincing yourself it is a net positive.

Hamstering is far more dangerous than smoking, and more addictive, and can take over your whole life, slowly, insidiously, and permanently.

It is especially harmful for men, because it goes against the natural order.

I have smoked for a long time, and recently cut back drastically, and believe me, the hamster is a tangible beast, that sneaks into your consciousness, whispering divine blandishments that go against your best interests.

The only reason I haven't quit completely is because I can't. I only admit this anonymously online. In real life I tell people it is none of their business.

I am not physically addicted to cigarettes. They are an emotional coping mechanism. The times I did quit, were physically painless, just a headache and stiff shoulders for a day or two. When I returned to smoking it was because emotionally, I felt I needed them.

So, despite the benefits you see, do you want to slowly become dependent, emotionally, on a substance?

When you say, it helps you work, knowing you have the reward of a cigarette at the end, I think you are fooling yourself. Learn how to enjoy things intrinsically, or do other things; don't do things you hate and reward yourself with something that will kill you.

I used to smoke three packs a day. Now I smoke between 5 and 10 a day (cigarettes, not packs). What you talk about as a reward I feel shame about. There were periods in my life, moments in relationships, in nature, as a parent, as a traveler, that I missed completely because all I was thinking about was the cigarette I was going to smoke soon.

This is not good, it is, in fact, a good reason to quit.

You are hamstering mightily in this thread, and that mental habit will bleed into other areas of your life, which is not good.

Cigarettes can only kill you once.

Hamstering is forever.

[MongolianAbroad]

(07-03-2017 11:23 AM)komatiite Wrote:  

The hits keep coming. Here is some advice from the People's Champ, Spaniard88.

[url=https://twitter.com/michaelporfirio/status/881910527806582784][/url]

The rest is up to you...

The G's right about custom suits.

If any of you haven't experienced this, you should.

[testos111]

(07-03-2017 11:36 AM)debeguiled Wrote:  

When you say, it helps you work, knowing you have the reward of a cigarette at the end, I think you are fooling yourself. Learn how to enjoy things intrinsically, or do other things; don't do things you hate and reward yourself with something that will kill you.

Don't agree with this. I love what I do for a living. I won't swap my work life with anyone. Yet, no matter how much you love what you do, stress does come in and all types of work require you to periodically do tasks that may not be to your liking. And in those periods, the smokes do help.

And after reading 50 or so replies, I think I've got my answer. Most people bashing smoking here are doing so not because of the health risks, but because of how they perceive smokers in their minds, which is - unambitious, lethargic, not concerned about self-improvement, etc etc.

For me that does not make much of a difference since I anyway have a dislike for overly-ambitious and disciplined people as I feel their lives lack joy.

I find the approach of extreme self-discipline and self-improvement slightly flawed since it goes against the value of relaxation and pleasure, which I feel is more natural and more healthy, if one has the awareness to understand the difference between healthy laziness and unhealthy lethargy. What is the point of neurotic self improvement? Where does it lead to? Ultimately, the thing that is sustainable will always be that which is easy and relaxing to your nature.

I guess discussing vices is extremely subjective and the "right" answer can only be got from yourself and your own intuition.

[debeguiled]

You cherry picked from my post and are accusing people who disagree with you of being haters not thinkers.

You misrepresent the ambitious as joyless.

You misrepresent discipline and self improvement as extreme.

Check out what you wrote here:

Quote:

I find the approach of extreme self-discipline and self-improvement slightly flawed since it goes against the value of relaxation and pleasure, which I feel is more natural and more healthy, if one has the awareness to understand the difference between healthy laziness and unhealthy lethargy.

Yes, smoking is more natural and healthy than not.

The only way to say that this isn't hamstering is if you are a flack for a tobacco company, and then you are just doing your job, between cigarette breaks, of course.

[testos111]

(07-03-2017 01:02 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  

You cherry picked from my post and are accusing people who disagree with you of being haters not thinkers.

You misrepresent the ambitious as joyless.

You misrepresent discipline and self improvement as extreme.

Check out what you wrote here:

Quote:

I find the approach of extreme self-discipline and self-improvement slightly flawed since it goes against the value of relaxation and pleasure, which I feel is more natural and more healthy, if one has the awareness to understand the difference between healthy laziness and unhealthy lethargy.

Yes, smoking is more natural and healthy than not.

The only way to say that this isn't hamstering is if you are a flack for a tobacco company, and then you are just doing your job, between cigarette breaks, of course.

Where did I say smoking is more natural and healthy? Are you too stupid to see the context in which the statement was made?

I was obviously referring to an approach towards life as healthy and natural, of which light smoking can be an aspect.

Going by your logic, you would even advocate people running around naked since clothes aren't "natural".

I really thought the discussion here would see some deeper answers which account for the wholeness of life and not linear child-like arguments and views.

[MongolianAbroad]

(07-03-2017 11:36 AM)debeguiled Wrote:  

Smoke if you want to smoke, but don't hamster.

The negatives far outweigh the positives.

Don't build up some fragile structure of rationalizations to justify taking up a bad habit and convincing yourself it is a net positive.

Hamstering is far more dangerous than smoking, and more addictive, and can take over your whole life, slowly, insidiously, and permanently.

It is especially harmful for men, because it goes against the natural order.

I have smoked for a long time, and recently cut back drastically, and believe me, the hamster is a tangible beast, that sneaks into your consciousness, whispering divine blandishments that go against your best interests.

The only reason I haven't quit completely is because I can't. I only admit this anonymously online. In real life I tell people it is none of their business.

I am not physically addicted to cigarettes. They are an emotional coping mechanism. The times I did quit, were physically painless, just a headache and stiff shoulders for a day or two. When I returned to smoking it was because emotionally, I felt I needed them.

So, despite the benefits you see, do you want to slowly become dependent, emotionally, on a substance?

When you say, it helps you work, knowing you have the reward of a cigarette at the end, I think you are fooling yourself. Learn how to enjoy things intrinsically, or do other things; don't do things you hate and reward yourself with something that will kill you.

I used to smoke three packs a day. Now I smoke between 5 and 10 a day (cigarettes, not packs). What you talk about as a reward I feel shame about. There were periods in my life, moments in relationships, in nature, as a parent, as a traveler, that I missed completely because all I was thinking about was the cigarette I was going to smoke soon.

This is not good, it is, in fact, a good reason to quit.

You are hamstering mightily in this thread, and that mental habit will bleed into other areas of your life, which is not good.

Cigarettes can only kill you once.

Hamstering is forever.

Wish I could rep you twice, that's damn near poetry.

[MongolianAbroad]

(07-03-2017 01:12 PM)testos111 Wrote:  

(07-03-2017 01:02 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  

You cherry picked from my post and are accusing people who disagree with you of being haters not thinkers.

You misrepresent the ambitious as joyless.

You misrepresent discipline and self improvement as extreme.

Check out what you wrote here:

Quote:

I find the approach of extreme self-discipline and self-improvement slightly flawed since it goes against the value of relaxation and pleasure, which I feel is more natural and more healthy, if one has the awareness to understand the difference between healthy laziness and unhealthy lethargy.

Yes, smoking is more natural and healthy than not.

The only way to say that this isn't hamstering is if you are a flack for a tobacco company, and then you are just doing your job, between cigarette breaks, of course.

Where did I say smoking is more natural and healthy? Are you too stupid to see the context in which the statement was made?

I was obviously referring to an approach towards life as healthy and natural, of which light smoking can be an aspect.

Going by your logic, you would even advocate people running around naked since clothes aren't "natural".

I really thought the discussion here would see some deeper answers which account for the wholeness of life and not linear child-like arguments and views.

When you remember why it is you avoid interacting with most smokers in the first place.

[debeguiled]

(07-03-2017 01:12 PM)testos111 Wrote:  

Where did I say smoking is more natural and healthy? Are you too stupid



to see the context in which the statement was made?

I was obviously referring to an approach towards life as healthy and natural, of which light smoking can be an aspect.





Going by your logic, you would even advocate people running around naked since clothes aren't "natural".






I really thought the discussion here would see some deeper answers which account for the wholeness of life and not linear child-like arguments and views.

[nomadbrah]

Considering "got a light" has been a time tested, locality tested, age tested, perfect opener for the solo traveler, it is hard to disagree with OPs thesis. I don't even think moderate cigarette addiction is harmful if you quit at 30 (studies show similar rates of cancer for smokers vs non-smokers), but the thing I've learned with not even advanced age is that the future suddenly catches up to you. I already have fucked up my body with not lifting with good form. Shit like that is permanent and so is lung cancer. Just no good reason to begin smoking, despite the easy opener.

Edit: Still doesn't mean it's ok to hate on smokers or use non-smoking as some new religious piety, which is what many do.

[Deadlifts]

Smoking acts as an AI (aromatase inhibitor) which blocks testosterone from converting into estrogen. It also acts as a relaxant, which lowers cortisol levels. There's many reasons men we're more masculine 70 years ago, smoking was one of them. I personally smoke an occasional cigar or cigarettes without a fuck given.

[Easy_C]

3-5 per day is not "light smoking".

[debeguiled]

(07-03-2017 04:19 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  

3-5 per day is not "light smoking".

I don't think the OP is posting in good faith.

My guess would be that he is trying to encourage smoking among forum members by misrepresenting a daily habit as light.

What he is actually describing is the perfect way to get addicted to nicotine, consistently smoking every day, but smoking few enough that you can tell yourself you can quit any time, and aren't really a smoker.

Why he is doing this I can only speculate. Is he a viral marketer for a tobacco company? Or a researcher for a public relations firm trying to see if he can turn attitudes on a forum?

Or maybe even a lung cancer troll.

He is using some subtle persuasion techniques though. Be skeptical.

[JackinMelbourne]

There is one advantage and one only. And that's the social aspect of it. It's an opening among other smokers who you don't know, a reason to be in the smoking area. An ice breaker. That is all. Nothing else is advantageous about it. Nothing.

[JackinMelbourne]

(07-03-2017 03:45 PM)Deadlifts Wrote:  

Smoking acts as an AI (aromatase inhibitor) which blocks testosterone from converting into estrogen. It also acts as a relaxant, which lowers cortisol levels. There's many reasons men we're more masculine 70 years ago, smoking was one of them. I personally smoke an occasional cigar or cigarettes without a fuck given.

Did not know. Always assumed the damage it does outweighs any benefits.

I'll also smoke for lols occassionally. And by occasionally I don't think it would be any more than 5-10 times a year.

[Leonard D Neubache]

(07-03-2017 01:35 PM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  

(07-03-2017 11:36 AM)debeguiled Wrote:  

Smoke if you want to smoke, but don't hamster.

The negatives far outweigh the positives.

Don't build up some fragile structure of rationalizations to justify taking up a bad habit and convincing yourself it is a net positive.

Hamstering is far more dangerous than smoking, and more addictive, and can take over your whole life, slowly, insidiously, and permanently.

It is especially harmful for men, because it goes against the natural order.

I have smoked for a long time, and recently cut back drastically, and believe me, the hamster is a tangible beast, that sneaks into your consciousness, whispering divine blandishments that go against your best interests.

The only reason I haven't quit completely is because I can't. I only admit this anonymously online. In real life I tell people it is none of their business.

I am not physically addicted to cigarettes. They are an emotional coping mechanism. The times I did quit, were physically painless, just a headache and stiff shoulders for a day or two. When I returned to smoking it was because emotionally, I felt I needed them.

So, despite the benefits you see, do you want to slowly become dependent, emotionally, on a substance?

When you say, it helps you work, knowing you have the reward of a cigarette at the end, I think you are fooling yourself. Learn how to enjoy things intrinsically, or do other things; don't do things you hate and reward yourself with something that will kill you.

I used to smoke three packs a day. Now I smoke between 5 and 10 a day (cigarettes, not packs). What you talk about as a reward I feel shame about. There were periods in my life, moments in relationships, in nature, as a parent, as a traveler, that I missed completely because all I was thinking about was the cigarette I was going to smoke soon.

This is not good, it is, in fact, a good reason to quit.

You are hamstering mightily in this thread, and that mental habit will bleed into other areas of your life, which is not good.

Cigarettes can only kill you once.

Hamstering is forever.

Wish I could rep you twice, that's damn near poetry.

I'll have to rep him for you, and wonder why I haven't done so already.

[Leonard D Neubache]

(07-03-2017 05:26 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  

I don't think the OP is posting in good faith.
...
Why he is doing this I can only speculate. Is he a viral marketer for a tobacco company? Or a researcher for a public relations firm trying to see if he can turn attitudes on a forum?

Or maybe even a lung cancer troll.

He is using some subtle persuasion techniques though. Be skeptical.

Too late!



I have already become a testosterone-sweating man's man.



I now live in the heart of flavour country, and brother...

[Tayo]

by the time you are going through a stressful or rough patch in your life, you would increase the amount of cigarrette you smoke and enter into the realm of heavy smoking.

[teddy bear]

If you want to smoke - smoke. I don't like those generalizations on what one should do or shouldn't. It's pissing me off to be honest. I hate when somebody tells me what I should do, pointing out what I do wrong etc. I never do that. I have, once very good friends - one is weed addict constantly failing his life and another one is light alcoholic(few beers every day for 6 years makes him one imo). I have suggested them to stop drinking/smoking so much in the past, well, they didn't listen so idgaf. It's their life, I won't constantly butt in trying to save them.

To the OP as I have smoked for a few years, 3-5 cigs/day is addiction. Basically from I have noticed, whenever you feel joy from getting a puff you are addicted to nicotine. Do you remember your first time smoking? Wasn't really pleasant, right? Strong, bad smell, you were probably coughing, but yet you got into it and very quickly you started to enjoy it. I was vaping for past 3 years, but recently bought some tobacco to roll my own cigs like I have always used to. I got dizzy and a bit unpleasant from the nicotine intake as I was vaping very low nicotine solutions, but after a few days of light smoking, it started to be enjoyable and relaxing again.

I don't recommend smoking obviously, it has tons of negative effects, but so does many other things. The biggest downside of cigs is nicotine being extremely addictive. It makes it hard to smoke "occasionally" for most people and leads very quickly to buying more and more of them, but well, this is the very reason why they were made in the first place.

You can also try vaping instead of smoking, at least you won't have to listen to people constantly telling you, that smoking is bad for your health because there is still not enough research done on long-term effect of vaping and for now it's known as much safer alternative to smoking, although you will experience a lot of people posting "gay" memes.

Well, people are also hypocrites overall. They will tell you that smoking is bad all the time only because this is the current "trend". The very same people will also fill their bellies at McDonalds everyday ordering only diet coke and lecturing you if you order a normal one, because as far as they believe, it's "fit". Actually the whole gym, fitness and thousands of food blogs, fb/ig pages mostly lead by either brain-damaged people or smart marketers who are pumping the cash from the niche while they can is another laughingstock.

I have a friend who never smoked, even once. Never tried drugs and to the point of 17 years old, he maybe had a few beers, while back then I was drinking heavily - like 5/6 beers everyday, smoking a pack of UA cigs costing me like ~1.25 USD and living the life at the hood, he had horrible lungs, liver and testicles cancer and he spent 2 years in the hospital. The only reason he is alive is because he was lucky, young and had a will to fight. Now I'm drinking a beer from time to time with him, really cool guy.
The point is it made me realize, that life is pretty random after all and there is no point in restraining yourself from things you want to do, because you never know...
Of course smoking is not the best example to give as it's just a stupid way to blow your money(yes, taxes are HUGE in 1st world countries) and health, but if you really want to smoke then do it. I'm not in position to tell you anything and as I stated before I don't like people that do. Even if you have asked me if you should steal morphine from the hospital and get high everyday I would just state pros and cons(cons only here in this particular example) and leave the ultimate choice to you.

Another thing is, you could either be born in Mongolia and after just living there you could have worse lungs condition than light smoker in Iceland.
You have to note, that also while living the lifestyle of traveling and banging hundreds of women you are bound to get some shit, minor stuff usually, but hey, you are taking the chances, right?
Same with the car wreck etc. You can live minimizing risks, but you have to ask yourself if it is worth it?

Smoking is bad for your health, waste of money, stinks and pisses off people that doesn't smoke, but if it really helps you with your game, boosts your confidence, relaxes you and so on, the smoke. Even if you know, that smoking doesn't really have any impact on those things and it's solely your imagination.

[porscheguy]

Like debeguilled, I've smoked for a period measured in decades at this point. It's a habit I wish to quit. And every time, I make it 95% and then I fail. Right now, I smoke a half pack daily. I had been aping for a couple of years. I got some virus a month ago and lost all desire to smoke or vape. This happens from time to time. As I got over the virus, and wasn't consuming any nicotine, I noticed immediate results. My sleep habits were improved. I no longer awoke each morning feeling like my head was in the clouds and my eyelids weighed 100lbs. My blood pressure was down lower than it's been in years.

Unfortunately, despite these positives, within a few days, the cravings returned. And then "I'll try it this one last time and then I'm done." One becomes two, then three, and before you know it, you're back smoking half a pack each day.

A lot of studies focus on the problems of smoking, using dip, etc. How inhaling the smoke or using the dip causes cancer and heart disease to name a few. They don't focus on the addictive potential of nicotine. Physical or emotional, addiction is addiction. They don't focus on the fact that a very small amount of nicotine is toxic and can make you violently ill, or even kill you.

Nicotine is a vasoconstrictor. It narrows your blood vessels. It increases your heart rate by about 20BPMs. Narrowed blood vessels coupled with increased heart rate=high blood pressure. Narrowed blood vessels make it harder to get wood for the bang.

People tout the virtues of vaping over smoking and I will admit there are some advantages. It doesn't stink, and your breathing improves somewhat. But the health effects of nicotine consumption persist. You still have high blood pressure, vasoconstriction, sleep issues(for me).

I'll also admit that there are variations of nicotine affects on people. Some won't develop various health problems as a result of using it. Good for them I say.

I hope I don't come off as preaching against smoking. But I certainly don't endorse the practice of using nicotine in any form. I'm looking to quit again very soon and I hope for good. I'm too young to feel as old as I do sometimes.