[Blaster]

(06-26-2017 06:42 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 09:58 PM)Blaster Wrote:  

I'd say you're making uncharitable generalizations and don't really care which one you're thinking about.

Given how much time I've spent genuinely-researching everyone involved - I started again this week due to a private request and really wish I hadn't - and how, like my previous research into Kek, even 10 minutes of the simplest investigation reveals obvious false narratives and leads me to ask even more questions, I'd say labeling my investigative instincts as being 'uncharitable' is Pure Soy.

Ok, let's take one of them at random: Cernovich.

The narrative is that he went on 60 Minutes, they ran an attack piece, and he 'won'.

Yeah Cernovich always spins things to favor himself. He's always done that. There's a huge difference between Cernovich telling a biased story about himself versus mainstream "narratives," which all-too-often involve manufacturing truth by way of repetition in the massive echo-chamber of the media establishment.

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Given that the media combed hours of footage of Milo to string together some quotes to make it sounding like he was supporting sex with children, I find it very-interesting that, given all the very damning information that could be selectively-used to paint him in a negative light to viewers - particularly his own bizarre podcasts that ran during the original TRS drama back in January, let alone all the stuff the Left dug up on him during the Gamergate days - 60 Minutes went very, very easy on him.

Almost as if they were told to pretend they were condemning him, when the intention was to validate him all along.

Maybe, but it sure looks to me as if 60 Minutes marching orders were to contribute to the "Fake News" narrative. Their goal isn't to sink Cernovich as political opposition. Their goal is to sink the competitive new media, all of it. Whether that's a winning strategy, I don't know, but that's what they're doing. It's the consistent narrative that shows up everywhere in the mainstream media. The narrative is: "There's an epidemic of fake news out there-- cowboy journalists that can't be trusted." 60 Minutes goal is to contribute selective facts and help weave that narrative for the normal viewing public (which is increasingly coming to mean aging boomers). It doesn't matter what the story is, just make sure you throw in a dig at fake news and if you don't, the editors will add it for you.

In this case, Cernovich is now listed in the IMDB credits as "Conspiracy Theorist." However Cernovich may have appeared on 60 minutes? Doesn't matter. The narrative is still "watch out for Fake News like Mike Cernovich."

Article on CBS about the 60 Minutes with Cernovich

Quote:

Cernovich is a southern California lawyer who runs the website Danger & Play. He describes himself as “right of center politically,” and 60 Minutes reported that Cernovich has become “a magnet for readers with a taste for stories with no basis in fact.” Cernovich’s online articles include a bogus report that Hillary Clinton has Parkinson’s disease and a fake sex cult story about Hillary Clinton’s “inner circle.”

That whole paragraph is full of shit except for the reference to pizzagate which was not one of Cernovich's brighter moments. Note how it's phrased in broad terms like "magnet for readers" who don't care about a "basis in fact." And then adds on a blatant lie that the report about Hillary's Parkinson's disease was bogus. That report was manifestly not bogus and in fact it was not even a "report that Clinton has Parksinson's disease."

Again their goal is not to bury Cernovich individually, their goal is to control the perception of reality as completely as they can and inoculate their viewers against competition. What Cernovich did with pizzagate is what CBS and their ilk do with everything.

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Which makes me suspect Cernovich is willing to play ball with the left, when it offers him personal power, and his rise has less to do with 'the people' than 'the people with money'. Note for all of Follower Hype, see how few turned out to see him in person.

Suspect all you want, but the 60 minutes thing isn't evidence of anything other than Cernovich doing what he's always done, which is take bold risks and make the most of whatever happens.

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Another one of my little nagging suspicions:

If the Alt-Lite is fighting the mainstream media and the progressive powers that be, then why do Milo and Cernovich constantly-brag about their books ratings on Amazon, where their fans sales on that site goes towards making Jeff Bezos richer and allowing him to keep funding 'The Washington Post', even at a loss?

It's almost as if they're opportunists who lack the courage of their convictions.

Maybe it's because they aren't communists and boycotts aren't always the best tool for the job. WTF would be the point of not using Amazon? There's a difference between taking bold risks and engaging in pointless and foolhardy behavior. Good luck trying to take consumer action against Amazon on the basis of what the Washington Post publishes. That is an unwinnable battle and even if you could bring down Amazon with consumer action how would that actually benefit anyone?

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I stopped using Amazon. I stopped using Paypal. I stopped using Google. I cancelled Netflix. I don't have a smart phone.

It makes things harder, sure, but I'm willing to put up with discomfort due to my beliefs. Hell, I was working on a musical project sabotaged by Gamma Dysfunction, and was so sick of throwing my own money down that hole that I considered, for the first time in my life, getting a Public Arts Grant.

Guess what I found on their website?

The two key considerations for getting an Australian Arts Grant are not talent, artistic merit, or even popular acclaim but these, listed first and foremost:

The work must promote Diversity.
The work must promote Globalism.

With that, I realised that it would be very Easy to take their money, but, since I'd be dealing with the Career Bureaucrat class that I despise and promoting Socialism, it wouldn't be Right.

You realize that Amazon and Netflix are very capitalist free market businesses, right? One of the big problems right now, especially with progressive media, is that that's what kids are buying. Or at least, that's what market research is telling media companies that's what kids are buying. Tim Pool explained this recently on Dave Rubin though it should surprise no one here. He worked for a media company who explicitly wrote progressive stories because market research told them that's where the audience was. Withdrawing from the market doesn't help much.

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As such, I didn't ignore my convictions for my own personal benefit, something the Alt-Lite refuses to do. I mean, they're really talking about Hate Speech now and shutting down plays?

They disrupted one event to make a point. This hate speech thing is new I am not sure what to think about that. But Cernovich is openly committed to winning, not playing the game by the most noble rules possible. A noble loser is still a loser. No one cares about your convictions if you merely fade away into obscurity. SJWs have not let up their shenanigans, I'm sure you heard about the recent demonetization rules on Youtube. Contents need to be "advertiser friendly." SJWs have weaponized advertisers, and advertisers have allowed themselves to be weaponized. So the alt-lite fights back with the same weapons.

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Why agree to any of the Left's talking points? In the coming culture war, why try to be France, given the Current State of France?

Maybe because deciding to disagree with all of the left's talking points no matter what they are means they are in control of your platform not you. Though again, I disagree with the "no hate speech thing." But this is the first I've seen of it.

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And why should we continue to keep listening to any self-professed 'Thought Leaders', regardless of political persuasion, when it's the class of people whom obviously never worked with their hands for a day in their life whom have gotten our countries into such a dysfunctional state to begin with?

I don't consider Cernovich a thought leader, unless you're talking about his Gorilla Mindset stuff. I listen to him because he has a good track record of reporting things that turn out to be true and because his impulsive off-the-cuff style can be entertaining.

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And if a group's 'Appeal to Normies' breakaway division includes a host who graphically-rammed a buttplug up his own arse on his webshow; another man whose 'Manosphere' writings include bizarre articles about Gay Hustling in the Bodybuilding Circuit, and 'What is sex with a tranny like?';

So now you're cherry-picking like 2 articles out of context from the hundreds that have appeared on D&P?

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and a Gay Attention Whore whose contribution to Trump's campaign was inviting Major Right Figures to speak in front of a wall of photos of shirtless, underage-looking boys indistinguishable from the art of Leftist Creeps like Larry Clark and Michael Stipe, then I have to seriously-reconsider the information processing skills of the average person, Right or Left.

I don't blame you for not liking Milo but that doesn't change the fact that he is incredibly popular. He is the 'appeal to normies' guy by simple virtue of the empirical evidence suggesting he actually does appeal to normies.

[scorpion]

90% of the "leaders" of the Alt-Lite are shameless self-promoters who are transparently just looking for some combination of money, notoriety and influence. I very much doubt the sincerity of their beliefs. I see a bunch of opportunists who attached themselves to an organic ant-leftist, anti-media movement that coalesced around Trump's candidacy. I agree with Roosh that their main target is and should be the mainstream media. These people are not truly political. They play at politics because during the rise of Trump politics was the battleground. But we can already see them fizzling out now that Trump has taken power. Their major objection to the existing media apparatus is not centered around an ideological conviction that the media represents a overbearing toxic influence on the nation, but rather on the fact that they themselves are not in control of the media megaphone.

There is also a bizarre and completely unwarranted amount of ego and self-importance among this crowd, as if sending out Tweets and staging various attention whoring spectacles and pimping a Patreon are acts of extreme importance. Everyone is trying to "build a brand" and become a "new media star". They don't want to destroy the media, they want to replace the media. They don't hate the media, they envy the media. It's all about eyeballs and building these personal media empires. This is a political movement only in the sense that these people mostly talk politics, because they have discovered that there's a market for it. Political controversy draws eyeballs. But at the end of the day it's just a collection of YouTubers who are trying to walk the fine line between being edgy enough to draw attention to themselves but not so edgy that they risk alienating too many potential normie fans.

As I re-read this, it comes across as more harsh than I would like. I don't hate these people, or even dislike them. I just wish they would be more honest about their intentions, and most of all wish they would stop attacking to their right. The Alt-Right "leaders" have no shortage of flaws themselves, but they at least have clear convictions and are interested in fomenting an actual political movement. They aren't in it for the Likes and the Views, they're legitimately true believers. I think the Alt-Lite should simply re-brand themselves as a "new media movement" rather than the "New Right", because most of them aren't even right-wing. They're mostly just libertarians or centrists who (understandably) object to SJW insanity. But objecting to SJWism doesn't automatically mean you're right wing, it simply means you haven't been completely brainwashed with the SJW mind virus.

Basically, I would like to see a sort of truce emerge here. Let the Alt-Lite focus its efforts on attacking the media and pushing an anti-SJW message to normies. Meanwhile, let the Alt-Right continue being the ultimate shitlords and doing their hardcore thing. Infighting only strengthens our enemies. Let's keep our fire focused in the leftward direction. The war is far from over.

[Cattle Rustler]

(06-25-2017 09:52 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

Here's a thought experiment for y'all:

So, there's three groups: Antifa, The Alt-Lite and the Alt-Right.

I tell you I'm thinking of one of them.

Now, if i say:

"This group I'm thinking of acts dishonestly, can't be trusted to tell the truth, is opportunistic, thrives on the addictive high of emotional drama, desperately craves attention and validation by wider society, and is lead by Jewish and Homosexual Degenerates."

... then which group am I talking about?

All three of them but Alt lite for sure.

All you're missing out is "while they frequently ask you to buy their self improvement book".

[Thrill Jackson]

(06-26-2017 08:55 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 09:52 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

Here's a thought experiment for y'all:

So, there's three groups: Antifa, The Alt-Lite and the Alt-Right.

I tell you I'm thinking of one of them.

Now, if i say:

"This group I'm thinking of acts dishonestly, can't be trusted to tell the truth, is opportunistic, thrives on the addictive high of emotional drama, desperately craves attention and validation by wider society, and is lead by Jewish and Homosexual Degenerates."

... then which group am I talking about?

All three of them but Alt lite for sure.

All you're missing out is "while they frequently ask you to buy their self improvement book".

How in the hell does alt lite act dishonest and how can they not be trusted to tell the truth?

How does someone like Cernovich or Milo fit into that mold?

And literally every news source (MSM and Indepenents) are opportunistic and "thrive on addictive high of emotional drama."

And who cares if they are Jewish or Gay? Why does that even matter?

Cernovich plugging his book constantly does get annoying

[Thrill Jackson]

(06-26-2017 08:28 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

90% of the "leaders" of the Alt-Lite are shameless self-promoters who are transparently just looking for some combination of money, notoriety and influence. I very much doubt the sincerity of their beliefs. I see a bunch of opportunists who attached themselves to an organic ant-leftist, anti-media movement that coalesced around Trump's candidacy. I agree with Roosh that their main target is and should be the mainstream media. These people are not truly political. They play at politics because during the rise of Trump politics was the battleground. But we can already see them fizzling out now that Trump has taken power. Their major objection to the existing media apparatus is not centered around an ideological conviction that the media represents a overbearing toxic influence on the nation, but rather on the fact that they themselves are not in control of the media megaphone.

There is also a bizarre and completely unwarranted amount of ego and self-importance among this crowd, as if sending out Tweets and staging various attention whoring spectacles and pimping a Patreon are acts of extreme importance. Everyone is trying to "build a brand" and become a "new media star". They don't want to destroy the media, they want to replace the media. They don't hate the media, they envy the media. It's all about eyeballs and building these personal media empires. This is a political movement only in the sense that these people mostly talk politics, because they have discovered that there's a market for it. Political controversy draws eyeballs. But at the end of the day it's just a collection of YouTubers who are trying to walk the fine line between being edgy enough to draw attention to themselves but not so edgy that they risk alienating too many potential normie fans.

As I re-read this, it comes across as more harsh than I would like. I don't hate these people, or even dislike them. I just wish they would be more honest about their intentions, and most of all wish they would stop attacking to their right. The Alt-Right "leaders" have no shortage of flaws themselves, but they at least have clear convictions and are interested in fomenting an actual political movement. They aren't in it for the Likes and the Views, they're legitimately true believers. I think the Alt-Lite should simply re-brand themselves as a "new media movement" rather than the "New Right", because most of them aren't even right-wing. They're mostly just libertarians or centrists who (understandably) object to SJW insanity. But objecting to SJWism doesn't automatically mean you're right wing, it simply means you haven't been completely brainwashed with the SJW mind virus.

Basically, I would like to see a sort of truce emerge here. Let the Alt-Lite focus its efforts on attacking the media and pushing an anti-SJW message to normies. Meanwhile, let the Alt-Right continue being the ultimate shitlords and doing their hardcore thing. Infighting only strengthens our enemies. Let's keep our fire focused in the leftward direction. The war is far from over.

I don't believe its fair to consider those gamergate youtubers alt light. Those are just traditional liberals who profit off of being anti sjw (Chris Ray Guns, Sargon of Akkad, TJ Kirk, etc.)

Alt Light are people (like Milo, Gavin, Cernovich, etc.) you can lose your job for following but don't have white nationalism/Nazi beliefs.

[Thrill Jackson]

(06-26-2017 10:11 AM)Silver_Tube Wrote:  

I'd be afraid of getting my picture taken at an alt-right rally and my HR department finding it. I'd have a lot better chance at keeping my job if the same picture happened at an alt-light based event. Then again I showed up at one of our 'pro rape' based meetups so I'm probably fucked either way.

The 'scare the normies' issue is legitimate because we're all potential targets in a vicious doxing campaign. I think there needs to be a public facing redpill arm that we can meet under that doesn't carry the alt-right dox risk. Maybe that arm is the 'alt-light' or maybe its just mainstream conservatism. I often wish I could be more active but doxing is scary. I do wish the new right movements would squabble a little less.

It kind of reminds me of the mid 2000's PUA community drama. There is a budding industry of information marketing and everyone wants to be the big name guy in the space, with each of them selling their own books, blogs and conference appearances. In this case I feel there is more market to be gained by taking it from the left than from one another.

Get you picture taken at a "rape apologist" Cernovich event and show it to your HR department. I'm pretty sure you'll have a 1% chance of keeping you job at best.

[Leonard D Neubache]

Shit, at this point I'd just about be open to a life of welfare/smart-crime simply so I could turn up to a political rally and give two middle fingers to every camera I saw.

Fuck location independent.

Where's the "politically independent income" thread.

[Thrill Jackson]

(06-25-2017 09:00 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Spencer interview:

I don't see how this guy considers himself right wing with his position on health care.

Hell, when was the last time any and I mean ANY right wing politician had white nationalistic beliefs.

Dude is an attention whore.

[Cattle Rustler]

(06-26-2017 10:46 PM)Thrill Jackson Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 08:55 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 09:52 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

Here's a thought experiment for y'all:

So, there's three groups: Antifa, The Alt-Lite and the Alt-Right.

I tell you I'm thinking of one of them.

Now, if i say:

"This group I'm thinking of acts dishonestly, can't be trusted to tell the truth, is opportunistic, thrives on the addictive high of emotional drama, desperately craves attention and validation by wider society, and is lead by Jewish and Homosexual Degenerates."

... then which group am I talking about?

All three of them but Alt lite for sure.

All you're missing out is "while they frequently ask you to buy their self improvement book".

How in the hell does alt lite act dishonest and how can they not be trusted to tell the truth?

How does someone like Cernovich or Milo fit into that mold?

And literally every news source (MSM and Indepenents) are opportunistic and "thrive on addictive high of emotional drama."

And who cares if they are Jewish or Gay? Why does that even matter?


Cernovich plugging his book constantly does get annoying

I've posted about it before. I've caught one of them lying and hyping shit up for clicks/views/traffic. I politely reached out to them and corrected them. I got some BS answer about how their story sounds better, even when it was made up and 100% fake news.

Don't drink the Kool-aid brah and get your emotions involved over this.

About the gays and jews $$$ flowing in:

That would mean they are not pushing the Alt Lite narrative anymore, which is what Red Pill actually is. Notice how everyone was quick to jump on Red Pill and manosphere, then jumped off when the negative press came. Ditto for "Alt Right", some folks even acted as a "Veteran member of the alt right"...but when it got too big, attracted media attention, and fringe elements those people jumped off. "Oh, I'm not alt right, I'm myself" or "I'm not a leader of the Alt Right, I agree with their points tho". Even more so when people found out that the alt right already existed years ago and was pretty much WN. Folks knew what they were getting into, but jumped off the train as soon as the opportunities for $$$ weaned and the liabilities became too great.

Back to the point, sorry for deviating.

It means now they are pushing the Alt Lite BUT "let's not egg on the faggots and Jew's" narrative. They don't want to bite the hand that feeds them. Also, it makes Alt Lite even more light and will introduce gradual normalization and acceptance of homos (and no discussion on Jews). Trust me, it'll be on the DL but that's one of their goals. So by giving money to "Alt Lite" homos and (((they))) will have neutralized an enemy, found a propaganda medium on the right, and found a "friend". Someone posted on this issue on the forum before.

(06-26-2017 10:56 PM)Thrill Jackson Wrote:  

Get you picture taken at a "rape apologist" Cernovich event and show it to your HR department. I'm pretty sure you'll have a 1% chance of keeping you job at best.

Dunno, some folks new about the forum at a gig I had. They were pretty cool and were in agreement. Shit, they even asked me about getting on SA and running a pipeline there. Eskimo bros!

(06-26-2017 10:59 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Shit, at this point I'd just about be open to a life of welfare/smart-crime simply so I could turn up to a political rally and give two middle fingers to every camera I saw.

Fuck location independent.

Where's the "politically independent income" thread.

1 - Buy some websites
2 - Post content non stop
3 - Get on Twatter, do the same
4 - Play victim, "if something happens to me I blame X for my death" knowing such person doesn't even know you.
5 - Buy traffic/followers
6 - Get big enough to get a patron to bankroll you
6 - Claim victory

[Blaster]

[url=https://twitter.com/NotPaxDickinson/status/879173933546819585][/url]

[Aurini]

Y'all should listen to AnonymousBosch. There are dark currents flowing under these mildly choppy waters.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(06-26-2017 07:54 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 02:09 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

Every successful movement - even grassroots needs a strong clear hierarchy in order to succeed long-term.

Who is the clear leader of the SJWs?

What is the hierarchy of university marxists?

What are the written rules of the Hollywood mafia?

The globalists are the leaders of the SJWs, do you think all the university courses "just happened"? The Frankfurt school Alinsky-shitheads are guiding it and the money masters are financing it. The entire gender-crap is being lambasted from California up to Poland and New Zealand - all at varying stages, but they use media, academia, entertainment. Do you really think that a New Zealand local newspaper and a Czech magazine suddenly decided to push the "gender" bullshit out of thin air?

All 3 groups - academia (social justice comes mostly from academia with crazy add-ons like deer-sexual off Tumblr - but you will note that they don't get traction, because they are not from above), media and Hollywood are controlled entities.

Writers get paid to promote Diversity and Globalism - not only musicians. AB - just mentioned it and I read about it years ago.

--------------

As for the characters like Mike Cernovich - he is a former RVF member, who just found a nich for himself and went for it. Is it opportunism? Sure it is and he has to be sufficiently mainstream to get a broader acceptance, but he still goes out on a limb on various topics. He is not bought and paid for.

Milo is probably not either, but he is gay, far better connected than Mike via his family, he is also mainly an opportunist, but he also speaks the truth. Is it about fame and money too for him? Sure it is.

This is not controlled opposition.

[Matt Forney]

(06-26-2017 08:08 PM)Blaster Wrote:  

I don't blame you for not liking Milo but that doesn't change the fact that he is incredibly popular. He is the 'appeal to normies' guy by simple virtue of the empirical evidence suggesting he actually does appeal to normies.

Milo does not appeal to normies. None of the self-designated alt-lite or alt-right thought leaders do.

Contrary to what the Cernovichs and Spencers of the world argue, it was not posting cartoon frog GIFs on Twitter or hosting "fashy" drag shows that put President Trump in power. It was the white working class being beaten down by identity politics, free trade and mass non-white immigration that coasted Trump to victory.

The vast majority of Trump's constituency in the Rust Belt and the Deep South is unaware or only vaguely aware of the alt-right/alt-lite. The more they learn about both groups, the more repulsive they find them.

My family is largely working-class in upbringing, if not in occupation (they survived the de-industrialization of upstate New York by getting white-collar jobs). They all voted for Trump: even the Democrats. My mom is the most politically aware member of the family, and she gets her news primarily from Drudge Report: a Web 1.0 site.

When I visited my folks last Christmas, my mom asked me if Richard Spencer was gay (I had visited them on the way to the NPI conference in November and they saw the news reports about "Heilgate"). This is Richard Spencer we're talking about: a starchy, nerdy academic (not bashing him, I know him in person, but that's just the truth). I don't know if she knows who Milo is, but her reaction would probably be along the lines of "KILL IT WITH FIRE."

Mind you, my family is not religious or even that right-wing. But they know bad hombres when they see them.

The white working class, the engine of revolution, will never line up to follow Richard Spencer or any of the bourgeois dilettantes who do "ironic" Nazi salutes in full view of the TV cameras. They definitely will not follow a flamboyant homosexual who publicly bathes in pig's blood and does drag shows.

The alt-lite and the alt-right are basically competing for the same small market of "hip" middle-class millennials who've sustained (possibly irreversible) brain damage from exposure to porn, social media, and leftist cult programming in their formative years. The very contradictions that underlie and fuel both groups will prevent them from ever expanding their appeal:

- Acceptance of sexual deviancy (Milo, Blaire White, "Implicit White Identity," "Traps Aren't Gay," Grindr Greg Johnson and "intolerance of homosexuality is Jewish")

- "Ironic" racism (while stealing slang and ideas from non-whites, such as "thot" and "based," long after the originators of those terms have abandoned them as passe)

- Pastiche/curator culture (AnonBosch has talked about how millennials are incapable of creating original works, and the alt-right/alt-lite is no different; their sole cultural output is parodies and eighties ripoff dance music)

- Their inability to think or speak in anything other than buzzwords and memes, to the point where they can natter on about something like "white sharia" all day without realizing that they look completely nuts to everyone outside of their social circles

Their failure was baked into the cake.

There's zero point in getting involved in the alt-lite/alt-right's mutually assured destruction. Me personally, I'm getting out of the blast radius. Maybe after the war's over, there'll be something worthwhile in the ruins.

[Thrill Jackson]

The cognitive dissonance and delusion of some of the members I respect the most on this forum of this thread is real.im sticking to the game section for a bit.As soon as alt light gets MSM coverage y'all go into conspiracy theory mode.

I'll just leave it at this.

Who yelled "hail Trump" in front of MSM for attention and publicity? RICHARD SPENCER

Who yelled poor me when they were physically attacked for their views? RICHARD SPENCER

Who actually helped Trump get elected and not pushing a boogy man image the MSM can point to when they claim Trump supporters are 'literally Hitler' CERNOVICH/GAVIN/MILO/PJW

[CynicalContrarian]

While it may not fit wholly & solely into this alt-right / alt-light / new right personality drama.
I think there's a measure of merit to ol' Henry Thomas Buckle's most notable sentiment.

Paraphrase :

Quote:

Small minds discuss people.
Average minds discuss events.
Great minds discuss ideas.

[Wahawahwah]

I'd appreciate if someone could answer a couple of questions

Who gives a fuck about these people? How broad is their appeal, really?
From the outside, it seems like a bunch of attention seekers try harding to show who's the most alpha / edgy / true / big / committed to some vague right wing cause ("fuck lefty?), and then parlaying that into book deals and patreons and speaking fees.

Also, who are these "enemies" that we're supposed to be fighting? If its the whole feminism, lefty weirdos, equality, diversity, political correctness, fake media thing, then change is in the air, for sure. But how much of it has anything to do with these people fighting for the cause, and more to do with a lot of things adding up (and people eventually getting fed up or "woke" or whatever)?

[Ghost Tiger]

Great analysis by Anonymous Bosch, Matt Forney, and Aurini. I agree with everything said here by all three fine gentlemen 100%. I find it fascinating and encouraging that many men here on RVF are choosing neither the Alt-Lite nor the Alt-Right to side with. Like Pax Dickinson said, intelligent men will see that this is a false dichotomy. It's a staged conflict. It's theater.

As I look at it, I'm reminded that Vox Day carved up the Alt Right into THREE sections, however, and one of them isn't represented here... namely what Vox Day calls the Alt-West, or the CHRISTIAN Alt Right. What we are referring to in this discussion as the "Alt-Right" is what Vox Day refers to as the "Alt-White" or the PAGAN Alt Right (VD's definition of the Alt-Lite is the same as the common usage). My expectation is that, as the culture war intensifies, the Christian Alt Right will rise to dominance as the pretenders in the other groups get exposed as pretenders, which is precisely what has happened to Cernovich here (great job Anonymous Bosch by the way). People will need something to fight FOR rather than something to fight AGAINST.

Christianity is a foundation you can build on.

Onward and upward brothers.

[Leonard D Neubache]

These days the only sense I can make of this is by declaring myself a part of the alt-everyonewhospointingtheirgunsinthesamedirectionasme.

[Ghost Tiger]

(06-27-2017 09:33 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

These days the only sense I can make of this is by declaring myself a part of the alt-everyonewhospointingtheirgunsinthesamedirectionasme.

I'm with you Leonard! Let's leave the faggots alone to bicker like little girls and go shoot us some commie varmints!!!

[Leonard D Neubache]

p.s. Ghost Tiger.

I hope your Christian revival has a lot less of this:



And a lot more of this:

[Ghost Tiger]

^ Oh most definitely Leonard... with a dash of this:



... and a sprinkle of old Uncle Vlad:

[Foolsgo1d]

The train was fun whilst I was on it and the stars aligned with all the alt-media personalities, Trump and the outright disgrace that is the DNC, plus many other things.

Rallying behind a strong personality, a leader, is the easy thing to do and it shielded many of these special personalities from each other and theconsequences which will eventually lead to them losing fans, alliances and friendships.

I've not taken to any of them and the only guy I saw to keep on point was Paul J Watson, regardless of his employment by infowars which I find to be crack for morons like liberal news media is for leftists.

These people are victims of success and losing the shield Trump provided. Oh look a load of Antifa scum are assaulting people, lets show how the media is ignoring it. Same for BLM, same for DNC scum.

Hillary was a god send for Trump and the alt media. Why weren't the MSM covering it they all demanded and proceeded to think by pointing out night turning to day is real journalism or having someone sneak info to you is regarded as BREAKING NEWS.

Meanwhile the real problems facing Europe and the US, far more for the EU has gone by the wayside now or kept to Europeans. What ever happened to Western civilisation?

Oh I know, the moment these white supremacist jerkoffs showed up in decent numbers and started to co-opt arguments like a race thread on RVF. They then duke it out with Antifa and BLM, giving great optics for the MSM to portray anyone who aligns with Trump, nationalism or anti-illegal migration as racist, hate filled Nazi sympaphisers.

It doesn't matter now if BLM gets away with "fuck white people" and pointing out high crime rates of blacks and hispanics. Anyone who gave a fuck knows this and anybody who didn't is just a useful idiot or a lamb to the slaughter.

Look no further than the recent terrorism in the UK. Immediate shut down of discussion but 1 white guy plows some transit into a crowd of Muslims minding their own business and suddenly we're back to square one.

Lauren Southern gets attention because she is cute, has a pair of tits and a vagina. Wow lets all rally around some dumb ass who goes to France and slaps MAGA on her hat or fires off flares to protest inside a dock to stop some ship that could have easily plowed her pretty face under.

You couldn't even criticise these people before for stupid stunts but now people are or just plain ignoring them. That should say everything about their shelf life.

Heres the way I see it;

- Terrorism is on the rise
- Islam is increasing in numbers
- Illegal mass migration from problem areas is proceeding
- Western Democracy is being undermined by hurt feelings
- Globalism
- Syria is borderline WW3 material at the very least
- Alt-right is co-opted by white supremecy. Good luck attracting blacks, latinos etc
- Alt media personalities still screaming about injustices every day. Solves nothing

[Aurini]

Quote:

Hannibal Lecter: First principles, Clarice. Simplicity. Read Marcus Aurelius. Of each particular thing ask: what is it in itself? What is its nature? What does he do, this man you seek?

A year ago, the answer for all groups would have been "To get Donald Trump elected." But with that task accomplished, a new goal is needed, and disagreement has arisen.

What is the purpose of the Alt Right?

As far as I can tell, it's largely devolved into self-congratulatory White Nationalism. They dream about separating the pancake batter into its constituent parts, while cosplaying as the purity of the original elements. It's not only an impossible goal, it's an impossible standard; I, myself, am too "mixed race" to claim membership in their circles, given that I'm half Viking and half Roman. They praise an imagined yesteryear, where all of the races were kept 'purified' from one another - despite a brief perusal of history showing mixing throughout all eras. Because of the impossibility of this standard, they invite hypocrisy into their own lives.

What is the purpose of the Alt Lite?

To troll the media and the far left. To paraphrase the Big Lebowski, "Worse, man; they're nihilists. Say what you will about the tenets of the Alt Right, at least it's an ethos." The Alt Right has a center of gravity - albeit an impossible, imaginary one. The Alt Lite rejects that center for various reasons, some good some self-serving, while placing themselves in opposition to the Left and to the Alt Right. They are the Jungian shadow of that which they oppose, fundamentally reactionary in nature. Thus, they can go from demanding free speech, to demanding censorship, from defending "Neo Nazis" to demanding Hate Speech laws.

What is the purpose of the Alt West?

As Ghost Tiger observantly pointed out, there is a third group that Vox Day identified, conspicuous in that they don't actually use this label for themselves; their commonality is the North Star they use for guidance. For them, the goal is self improvement, discipline, and living a good and virtuous life; followed by trying to increase the virtue in their neighbours, through gentle advice and good example; while ultimately attempting to understand and study the traditions of our ancestors, in the acknowledgement of the excellence that these traditions offered.

If you want to boil all of this down to "just" group dynamics, then I would hasten to remind you that the fall of Rome was "just" group dynamics. I tend to take the broader view, that if you aren't worshiping God, you're going to wind up worshiping a demon.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

I would not call myself Alt-Right, Alt-Lite, Identitarian or Hotep.

That said I am of course agreeing on some issues with the groups above. Being not black I would probably not be accepted by the Hoteps - heh. Still - agreeing on some points would not make me join those groups, because then I would have to be certain where they are going and what they are doing.

I would support a Roosh-led ReturnOfKings movements so long as Roosh leads it with an iron ideological hand. Sure - he could go into a direction I don't feel comfortable with (at which point I could leave), but at least I could stand behind it knowing what the group stands for.

The Alt-Right or Alt-Lite - anyone can say anything, they can do a demonstration "against hate-speech" (which is an Orwellian term as we know) one day or an other offshoot do a demo together with actual Neonazis. The same goes for the Hoteps - I can stand next to Hotep Jesus, but then the other day another Hotep says that all Whites are demons and they were kangz and here I am supporting publicly something like that like a moron.

I know more what the globalists plan and could support that (if I was a psychopath or a sellout), because at least with them I know where they are going and how they intend to achieve their evil goals.

[Blaster]

(06-27-2017 05:14 AM)Matt Forney Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 08:08 PM)Blaster Wrote:  

I don't blame you for not liking Milo but that doesn't change the fact that he is incredibly popular. He is the 'appeal to normies' guy by simple virtue of the empirical evidence suggesting he actually does appeal to normies.

Milo does not appeal to normies. None of the self-designated alt-lite or alt-right thought leaders do.

Milo has broad appeal across political and cultural boundaries, among people who hate the radical left. Whether he appeals to "normies" is admittedly starting to get into nitpicky definitions of what words mean. The fact is that Milo has gone on mainstream TV shows and humiliated feminists and SJWs. He's refined the art of trolling SJWs. He helps keep those retards busy leaving the rest of us free to speak more openly and honestly with less fear of reprisals. He's quite open about this being part of his goal, which he discussed on Dr. Drew. There are some good explanations on Quora as well: https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Milo-Yianno...servatives

Quote:

Contrary to what the Cernovichs and Spencers of the world argue, it was not posting cartoon frog GIFs on Twitter or hosting "fashy" drag shows that put President Trump in power.

Do they argue this? I haven't seen it. Cernovich helped put Trump in power in many various ways. For example, by bringing attention to stories like Hillary's health issues. Dr. Ted Noel analyzes the public information. Cernovich gets the ball rolling on that story, PJW/Infowars pick it up from there, Pepe avatars meme it all over the internet including forums like this one. This attracts the attention of the reasonable-but-sympathetic types, who publish some more discussion about it. Finally, those reasonable people mention the story to normal people they know in real life, who trust them. Dr. Noel's original video now has 4.6 million views, and who knows how many have discussed it or linked to related content.

Quote:

I don't know if she knows who Milo is, but her reaction would probably be along the lines of "KILL IT WITH FIRE."

Mind you, my family is not religious or even that right-wing. But they know bad hombres when they see them.

The white working class, the engine of revolution, will never line up to follow Richard Spencer or any of the bourgeois dilettantes who do "ironic" Nazi salutes in full view of the TV cameras. They definitely will not follow a flamboyant homosexual who publicly bathes in pig's blood and does drag shows.

Milo is not there to be followed like a typical intellectual or political leader, he's there to trigger leftoids into doing stupid shit so you can laugh at them. He's a provocateur. You don't have to approve of his lifestyle. He doesn't demand approval of his lifestyle. You don't have to consider him a role model and he doesn't consider himself a role model (except in a very narrow sense). That doesn't mean you can't appreciate what he's doing.

Why does everything have to be a referendum on identity? That's playing the left's game. The left wants conservatives to hate Milo because he's gay, because he's flamboyant. And while they might be disgusted on some level, most people, even conservatives, aren't one-dimensional disgust machines. Everyone has a relative that chews with their mouth open or picks his nose or has some other irritating habit. But you tolerate them anyway because there's more important things in life than mildly irritating behaviors. Indeed, look at all the conservatives who voted for Trump in spite of his marital infidelity, something that most tradcons consider to be a mark of bad moral character.

If a conservative accuses Milo of depravity he's like "yeah I'm depraved as shit I'm a very bad man." And then goes off to trigger some more leftoids for fun and profit. Take it or leave it. Me, I am quite glad that Milo does what he does.