[reciproke]

(06-25-2017 10:08 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 09:51 PM)Blaster Wrote:  

...
The alt-right is primarily a political movement, although it is young and ill-defined. It's probably going nowhere because Richard Spencer (with the constant help of the left-wing Media) clearly has zero ability to lead anything but a white nationalist movement and that's not going anywhere.

On the contrary unless the core issues underlying native discontent in the West are not only addressed but reversed then WN is only going to grow.

Spencer didn't grow WN from a seed and there's little to no evidence that he's really leading it anywhere. He's sitting on top a small hill that's pushed it's way up out of the ground. That hill has the potential to grow into a mountain. One that might topple him off or raise him to the stratosphere.

But make no mistake. WN was not cultured and grown in a lab. It's an expression of fear and survival based instinct that will only grow in strength and power if the underlying trends that awoke it are not curtailed.

I agree that survival instinct plays a big role, but the Alt-Right is not a new movement. All the history of the west upon until the 70s/80s has been the history of ethnically homogenous white Europeans. America was founded by white men. Alt Right is just a new brand name for the fact that white men build succesful societies.

If you change the ethnic makeup of a society, you replace the society itself. History is full of examples of nations, cultures and societies being replaced (and erased) by replacing its population with something different.

There are many better thought leaders other than Richard Spencer (Jared Taylor, Vox Day, for example). In fact, Spencer does a really bad job. His "shtick" is just being slightly edgy and giving the movement a face. He fails at being a leader and can't communicate the Alt-Right ideas in a relatable manner. At this point, he should step down as a spokesman for the Alt-Right, as he starts to become a bigger hindrance than help.

Alt-Liters (and everyone else) need to be intellectually honest and acknowledge the ethnic and genetic reality of culture. Also, they stop worrying about "scaring away the normies".

[Silver_Tube]

I'd be afraid of getting my picture taken at an alt-right rally and my HR department finding it. I'd have a lot better chance at keeping my job if the same picture happened at an alt-light based event. Then again I showed up at one of our 'pro rape' based meetups so I'm probably fucked either way.

The 'scare the normies' issue is legitimate because we're all potential targets in a vicious doxing campaign. I think there needs to be a public facing redpill arm that we can meet under that doesn't carry the alt-right dox risk. Maybe that arm is the 'alt-light' or maybe its just mainstream conservatism. I often wish I could be more active but doxing is scary. I do wish the new right movements would squabble a little less.

It kind of reminds me of the mid 2000's PUA community drama. There is a budding industry of information marketing and everyone wants to be the big name guy in the space, with each of them selling their own books, blogs and conference appearances. In this case I feel there is more market to be gained by taking it from the left than from one another.

[rw95]

(06-26-2017 09:41 AM)reciproke Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 10:08 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 09:51 PM)Blaster Wrote:  

...
The alt-right is primarily a political movement, although it is young and ill-defined. It's probably going nowhere because Richard Spencer (with the constant help of the left-wing Media) clearly has zero ability to lead anything but a white nationalist movement and that's not going anywhere.

On the contrary unless the core issues underlying native discontent in the West are not only addressed but reversed then WN is only going to grow.

Spencer didn't grow WN from a seed and there's little to no evidence that he's really leading it anywhere. He's sitting on top a small hill that's pushed it's way up out of the ground. That hill has the potential to grow into a mountain. One that might topple him off or raise him to the stratosphere.

But make no mistake. WN was not cultured and grown in a lab. It's an expression of fear and survival based instinct that will only grow in strength and power if the underlying trends that awoke it are not curtailed.

I agree that survival instinct plays a big role, but the Alt-Right is not a new movement. All the history of the west upon until the 70s/80s has been the history of ethnically homogenous white Europeans. America was founded by white men. Alt Right is just a new brand name for the fact that white men build succesful societies.

If you change the ethnic makeup of a society, you replace the society itself. History is full of examples of nations, cultures and societies being replaced (and erased) by replacing its population with something different.

There are many better thought leaders other than Richard Spencer (Jared Taylor, Vox Day, for example). In fact, Spencer does a really bad job. His "shtick" is just being slightly edgy and giving the movement a face. He fails at being a leader and can't communicate the Alt-Right ideas in a relatable manner. At this point, he should step down as a spokesman for the Alt-Right, as he starts to become a bigger hindrance than help.

Alt-Liters (and everyone else) need to be intellectually honest and acknowledge the ethnic and genetic reality of culture. Also, they stop worrying about "scaring away the normies".

Europeans are not equal or interchangeable, something the alt-right/white nationalists refuse to acknowledge.

   

   

[reciproke]

Interesting, but irrelevant: No one views European cultures as interchangable, but compatible. Also, each European culture is a different expression of European ("white") people. Accomplishments come cyclically, just like civilizations. Arguing if you would ultimateley prefer Swiss, Norwegian oder Polish because of that is rather pointless.

[Ghost Tiger]

[url=https://twitter.com/blackpilledpans/status/879162337504186368][/url]

[Aurini]

The Alt Right/Alt Lite is suffering from organizational malaise, and with nothing better to do they're turning on each other. There are some very questionable people in charge of the finances, and it seems to me that ego and profit are taking a front seat over accomplishments or beliefs.

I wrote about the decline of movements here - my way of backing away before the dumpster fire turns into a nuclear meltdown - and some of the consideration that went into writing that post was the enduring nature of this forum.

Socialists fight poverty, without ever fixing poverty. Conservatives fight socialism, without ever curing socialism. I have no interest in tilting at windmills while receiving a heavy stipend from people who believe that the windmills are causing the wind.

[scrambled]

Quote:

There are many better thought leaders other than Richard Spencer (Jared Taylor, Vox Day, for example). In fact, Spencer does a really bad job. His "shtick" is just being slightly edgy and giving the movement a face. He fails at being a leader and can't communicate the Alt-Right ideas in a relatable manner. At this point, he should step down as a spokesman for the Alt-Right, as he starts to become a bigger hindrance than help.

Trouble is he would rather destroy the movement than give up superficial leadership of it; and he shills to the mainstream media to get that visible placement.
.....

Quote:

Europeans are not equal or interchangeable, something the alt-right/white nationalists refuse to acknowledge.

Nice out-of-the-blue strawman

[Simeon_Strangelight]

Does not matter whether they call it Alt-Lite or Alt-Right.

They are mainstream counter-movements that are similarly to the Teaparty, Occupy Wallstreet, Hoteps etc. ultimately doomed not because they don't have a few good points behind them.

The reason why they will ultimately fail is simply because they don't have the support of the globalists, which means that the globalists will ignore them if possible, infiltrate them and divert them (most common strategy - worked with Teaparty & Occupy Wallstreet), or at worst shut them down (Occupy Wallstreet). Usually they run a strategy on multiple fronts.

Could grassroots movements succeed of any sort?

Sure they could, but not without one major shitlord who is THE BIG LEADER. That Mega-shitlord must be the shitlord of shitlords. He says what is THE MOVEMENT and what is not. He may have lieutenants behind the scenes who have a lot to say, but the ultimate decision and direction is created by that guy.

There is no such leader in the Alt-Right or the Alt-Lite and frankly there cannot be. If a billionaire joined and propped up the entire movement by 100 mio. $, then he could be one, but boy would I not recommend this to any man (if he were truly independent). He might not live longer than one of the many unruly Clinton staff members.

Mark my words - both movements will disappear or be so far diverted towards a strange direction that you don't want to be associated with it anyway. Actually the Alt-Lite may already be such an attempt to redirect and divide the Alt-Right. The other tendencies in the direction of the rather Neo-nazi-like Alt-Right - they have been there for quite some time - for example the Enoch guy with his Jewish wife who lambasted all time about Jews.

Every successful movement - even grassroots needs a strong clear hierarchy in order to succeed long-term.

[rotekz]

I wish the Alt-Light would stop saying "Let that sink in" every other tweet.

[rw95]

(06-26-2017 11:24 AM)reciproke Wrote:  

Interesting, but irrelevant: No one views European cultures as interchangable, but compatible. Also, each European culture is a different expression of European ("white") people. Accomplishments come cyclically, just like civilizations. Arguing if you would ultimateley prefer Swiss, Norwegian oder Polish because of that is rather pointless.

Yes, because the history of Europe is the various European tribes/nations coexisting peaceably and never fighting each other.

Oh wait...

"Irrelevant?" No, completely relevant. The alt-right is fighting for some sort of pan-European nationalism/identity that simply does not exist. Europeans are not equal. Slavs have not accomplished as much as Germanics. Mediterranean Europeans cannot create the stable economies of Nordic nations. Balkanians have barely accomplished ANYTHING of significance. If some sort of "pan-white state" somehow miraculously came into existence, there would be no harmony, as we would see that certain European groups vastly outperform others.

[SirTimothy]

I watched most of the Alt-Right rally yesterday online. It was pretty good, about what I expected, I thought some speakers were better than others.

But I've also been paying attention to the split between the Alt-Right and Alt-Lite. Some of it's to be expected, but a lot of it's just pathetic.

[/url]

It's kinda disappointing that Cernovich especially has been petty lately - consistently punching right, accusing people of being gay, and now outright lying about the size of the two rallies yesterday. I think a lot of the reason for him attacking the alt-right that is that he is teasing a run for Congress - so he wants to appear edgy, but not too edgy. Everything he does is now done with his "brand" in mind.

I've also been paying attention to the way the direction the Alt-Lite is heading. Mostly to the left. Alt-Lite is now concerned with supporting gay pride and shutting down hate speech.

[url=https://twitter.com/TheRebelTV/status/879394770858254336]

"No hate speech!"


The Alt-Lite will go the way of the Tea Party. The Alt-Right may or may not ultimately succeed, but it at least has specific aims, and therefore a chance.

[Blaster]

The "No Hate Speech" thing will be the death knell of the alt-lite. If they give in to that they're done. That said, one idiot showing up at a rally with a "no hate speech" sign doesn't mean it's a good idea for everyone to spread it around as representative.

[iop890]

Is that a (((boomer))) holding that gay sign?

[John_Smith]

So long as the western elites/globalists insist on flooding white countries with feral third worlders then the alt-right will continue to exist and grow stronger. So long as western governments and police continue to treat non-whites as above the law then the alt-right will eventually become IRA-style white terrorism. Spencer is a shitty feckless leader, sure, but he's irrelevant given that the alt-right's existence is not based on his involvement.

The alt-light is garbage and full of wimpy cucks that're more interested in promoting LGBTQ+ rights and hate speech laws. They can fuck off with the boomer tea party trash.

[rw95]

(06-26-2017 02:56 PM)iop890 Wrote:  

Is that a (((boomer))) holding that gay sign?

(((Samseau.)))

[Blaster]

(06-26-2017 02:09 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

Does not matter whether they call it Alt-Lite or Alt-Right.

They are mainstream counter-movements that are similarly to the Teaparty, Occupy Wallstreet, Hoteps etc. ultimately doomed not because they don't have a few good points behind them.

The reason why they will ultimately fail is simply because they don't have the support of the globalists, which means that the globalists will ignore them if possible, infiltrate them and divert them (most common strategy - worked with Teaparty & Occupy Wallstreet), or at worst shut them down (Occupy Wallstreet). Usually they run a strategy on multiple fronts.

Could grassroots movements succeed of any sort?

Sure they could, but not without one major shitlord who is THE BIG LEADER. That Mega-shitlord must be the shitlord of shitlords. He says what is THE MOVEMENT and what is not. He may have lieutenants behind the scenes who have a lot to say, but the ultimate decision and direction is created by that guy.

There is no such leader in the Alt-Right or the Alt-Lite and frankly there cannot be. If a billionaire joined and propped up the entire movement by 100 mio. $, then he could be one, but boy would I not recommend this to any man (if he were truly independent). He might not live longer than one of the many unruly Clinton staff members.

Mark my words - both movements will disappear or be so far diverted towards a strange direction that you don't want to be associated with it anyway. Actually the Alt-Lite may already be such an attempt to redirect and divide the Alt-Right. The other tendencies in the direction of the rather Neo-nazi-like Alt-Right - they have been there for quite some time - for example the Enoch guy with his Jewish wife who lambasted all time about Jews.

Every successful movement - even grassroots needs a strong clear hierarchy in order to succeed long-term.

Also remember there are different measures of success. As a moderate, I don't really care if these movements are completely successful. We'd be in a lot better place right now if the postmodernists hadn't been quite so successful.

[AWright]

The altright will continue to grow. You saw it at the different rallies one rally consisted of mostly 20 something men while the other consisted of boomers. Every other group plays identity politics now whites will in the altright. Spencer's speech was good, the elites want to make it so we have no identity, whether it be race,gender they simply want us to be a corporate drone with no meaning, the altright is a resistance to this meaninglessness.

[Irenicus]

Quote:

Alt right is just slowing alt light down with its racist bullshit. They should stop trying to ride Milos/cernovich's wave, Trump has already disavowed them.

This 1000X.


Let's compare both groups.



First, ''All Lite''. Thanks to their hard work and efforts, a lot has been achieved. Some guys, like Milo and Gavin, made the Right more cool and more trendy. Yes, in some cases they (especially Milo) went too far (bathing in pig's blood, for example)...but still...they did a good job. Other guys, like Mike, were able to expose a few pedophilia scandals in DC. Their efforts have been noted by Trump and his staff (Jack's Periscope was being watched by Trump Jr. a few days ago, during that infamous drama play) which speaks for itself.


Whether we like it or not, the''Alt Lite'' achieved something. They may talk a lot, but they do a lot of work as well (see Hillary's speech in which she mentioned Milo by name). Again, if you are not successful, nobody would bother with you, especially globalists.



Now...contrast them to the ''Alt Right''. What they have done so far? Nothing really, apart from using memes and too much parentheses around people's names on their forums (a concept invented by likely Jewish guy). Instead, they caused damage ( HeilGate and more). No relevant public figure wants to associate with them, because he will gain nothing, and lose everything - unlike with the previous group.




I really would like people like Vox Day to unify the Alt Right, or else...the divide will only broaden.

[Rhyme or Reason]

(06-25-2017 06:58 PM)AManLikePutin Wrote:  

Surprised there was no thread on this.

This topic has been covered ad nauseam in plenty of other threads, and the conversation plays out the same way it has here.

[AnonymousBosch]

(06-25-2017 09:58 PM)Blaster Wrote:  

I'd say you're making uncharitable generalizations and don't really care which one you're thinking about.

Given how much time I've spent genuinely-researching everyone involved - I started again this week due to a private request and really wish I hadn't - and how, like my previous research into Kek, even 10 minutes of the simplest investigation reveals obvious false narratives and leads me to ask even more questions, I'd say labeling my investigative instincts as being 'uncharitable' is Pure Soy.

Ok, let's take one of them at random: Cernovich.

The narrative is that he went on 60 Minutes, they ran an attack piece, and he 'won'.

Given that the media combed hours of footage of Milo to string together some quotes to make it sounding like he was supporting sex with children, I find it very-interesting that, given all the very damning information that could be selectively-used to paint him in a negative light to viewers - particularly his own bizarre podcasts that ran during the original TRS drama back in January, let alone all the stuff the Left dug up on him during the Gamergate days - 60 Minutes went very, very easy on him.

Almost as if they were told to pretend they were condemning him, when the intention was to validate him all along.

Which makes me suspect Cernovich is willing to play ball with the left, when it offers him personal power, and his rise has less to do with 'the people' than 'the people with money'. Note for all of Follower Hype, see how few turned out to see him in person.

Another one of my little nagging suspicions:

If the Alt-Lite is fighting the mainstream media and the progressive powers that be, then why do Milo and Cernovich constantly-brag about their books ratings on Amazon, where their fans sales on that site goes towards making Jeff Bezos richer and allowing him to keep funding 'The Washington Post', even at a loss?

It's almost as if they're opportunists who lack the courage of their convictions.

I stopped using Amazon. I stopped using Paypal. I stopped using Google. I cancelled Netflix. I don't have a smart phone.

It makes things harder, sure, but I'm willing to put up with discomfort due to my beliefs. Hell, I was working on a musical project sabotaged by Gamma Dysfunction, and was so sick of throwing my own money down that hole that I considered, for the first time in my life, getting a Public Arts Grant.

Guess what I found on their website?

The two key considerations for getting an Australian Arts Grant are not talent, artistic merit, or even popular acclaim but these, listed first and foremost:

The work must promote Diversity.
The work must promote Globalism.

With that, I realised that it would be very Easy to take their money, but, since I'd be dealing with the Career Bureaucrat class that I despise and promoting Socialism, it wouldn't be Right.

As such, I didn't ignore my convictions for my own personal benefit, something the Alt-Lite refuses to do. I mean, they're really talking about Hate Speech now and shutting down plays?

Why agree to any of the Left's talking points? In the coming culture war, why try to be France, given the Current State of France?

And why should we continue to keep listening to any self-professed 'Thought Leaders', regardless of political persuasion, when it's the class of people whom obviously never worked with their hands for a day in their life whom have gotten our countries into such a dysfunctional state to begin with?

And if a group's 'Appeal to Normies' breakaway division includes a host who graphically-rammed a buttplug up his own arse on his webshow; another man whose 'Manosphere' writings include bizarre articles about Gay Hustling in the Bodybuilding Circuit, and 'What is sex with a tranny like?'; and a Gay Attention Whore whose contribution to Trump's campaign was inviting Major Right Figures to speak in front of a wall of photos of shirtless, underage-looking boys indistinguishable from the art of Leftist Creeps like Larry Clark and Michael Stipe, then I have to seriously-reconsider the information processing skills of the average person, Right or Left.

[LEMONed IScream]

If the Left truly thinks this guy has anything remotely "scary" about him then they are simply coward jellyfish. LOL! Sort of doubt him being straight!

[nomadbrah]

delete

[nomadbrah]

(06-26-2017 02:09 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

Every successful movement - even grassroots needs a strong clear hierarchy in order to succeed long-term.

Who is the clear leader of the SJWs?

What is the hierarchy of university marxists?

What are the written rules of the Hollywood mafia?

[AManLikePutin]

(06-26-2017 08:01 AM)not-a-pua Wrote:  

Spencer re-tweeted this. If true, the significance could not be greater. Posobiec was a Navy Information Warfare expert. He clearly tries to derail true free speech, the AltRight message etc.

[/url]

Posobiec was an "Information Dominance Warefare Officer"

That, and some of the obvious hoaxes he spreads just to fish for RTs and followers have gotten me very suspicious as well. I unfollowed him, but Swogblog has an interesting theory.

[url=https://twitter.com/TheSwogBlog/status/879470298730569728]

[LEMONed IScream]

Dude gets plenty of hate for his weirdness. But quite frankly. His analysis is spot on as usual.