[Malo]

(06-25-2017 05:18 AM)Easy_C Wrote:  

Think of it as being like your side hustle that generates a passive lady stream.

Haha well, that depends on your looks and your location.

The best way to go about it is to test it. Put up a profile and see what happens.

IF you get a passive stream of fine ladies whom you lay effortlessly, then who's to argue with that.

If however, getting laid from online involves hours and hours of texts, flakes, go nowhere dates, low quality girls and so on..

..then it's time to start noticing that you are putting in more effort and time than you would offline, and you're getting less in return, both in terms of results and of course in terms of self growth.

I think everyone should test it, but realistically I expect that only the above average looking guys generate a nearly passive stream of lays with not-fat-and-at-least-cute girls.

[Skank_Hunt]

(06-24-2017 04:13 PM)Darkwing Buck Wrote:  

The looks bar has raised in men in the western world not because of Tinder but due to the entire skew of the sexual market place.

In this modern society where culture and society promotes feminism and equality and material needs are provided by either a corporation through her salary/benefits or the government through welfare, women no longer need to select men for anything other than what gets their pussy wet.

Online dating is only a part of the equation. Women have SO MANY OPTIONS and SO LITTLE CONSEQUENCES for choosing the wrong man, that western women can do whatever the fuck they want. Get pregnant by some idiot? No problem get child support and welfare and then go on Facebook and get empowered for being such a strong independent single mother. Single motherhood used to be shameful. Now it's CELEBRATED.

Good summary of what is going on. Kind of sounds like a collation of a few of my larger posts on the Anglo/western market nowadays. Not because you're copying but we've just reached triangulation. On the one hand it's good to know you're not going insane when you see the insanity going on around you (re: "inmates running asylum" - astute observation)... on the other hand, it's still pretty grim.

The phenomenon of online dating/attention whoring apps and the consequent extreme abundance of highest quality men for women, or even the semblance of extreme abundance for women (e.g. many women meet no one from online nowadays but use it to see what they could get and for attention)... this is what I call online to real life "Spillover".

It was already bad enough with the general political and societal changes we were seeing without the fucking internet and smartphones. Destruction of the nuclear family, government and corporations replacing men for material needs, excessively safe environments for women, and general feminist bullshit which has essentially given all and more rights to women without the corresponding responsibilities which men still have to bear as they always have done, and more. The example of single motherhood formerly being a disgraceful and shameful situation now being celebrated is similar to how a fat woman who eats 5000 calories a day is now being celebrated as being "body positive". With some notable exceptions, humans will only do the bare minimum to get what they want. If a woman can be fat, ugly inside and out, a single mother to multiple kids, but still get hot, attractive men to fuck her, then why care about being in shape, being a nice person, or being careful about having sex and popping out babies? There is no incentive, in fact, in many European countries, women receive guaranteed government money if they are single with children. It is based on child protection laws e.g. a child should not be allowed to starve if a man is not around to take care of it, but it's gone way further than that. Or if a woman wants to pursue a career because feminist propaganda says you go girl then she gets the money from corporations or the government if she works for public services. Ask yourself why men haven't gone back to the moon for nearly half a century, or why half a century after men first landed on the moon we haven't gone to Mars yet? Because men back then had a solid family behind them, they didn't have to game to get a woman or even continue to run "marriage game" to keep his marriage alive, he could concentrate on the great things men coming together can achieve. Another reason is that women invaded the workforce and apart from nursing and child care, women are shit at jobs compared to men, especially if the goal is fucking space travel.

Women are the bane of human progress, but are still fundamentally necessary to bring more people into this world.

Now you add smartphones, internet and social media to the above mix and over time you have total chaos. Fat, ugly women demanding Brad Pitt in Fight Club lookalikes and they get them. Once they have that real life experience, and the constant online attention which never switches off, then you have a situation where this becomes the "norm" however twisted it is. Maybe something like Bitcoin is in a complete bubble right now, or something like the madness of the tulip bubble - sometimes certain factors align such that there is chaotic, irrational pandemonium in the market and all you can do is watch as the insanity unfolds.

As to the specific question in OP: The answer is "yes", but this is only part of it. It applies to all aspects of a male. I do agree that the habit of judging quickly by appearance has increased greatly due to the nature of the apps now most popular, so the answer is "yes, looks are especially affected". Looks matter disproportionately to what women actually are attracted to. That is a bizarre statement to make, but it's just become habit. Women are attracted to strength, resilience, charm etc., but why even bother to get to know someone below what she could and has gotten online? While the disproportionate focus on a man's looks or his "image" when he first steps up in real life may be increasingly the case, the far bigger factor is the online to real life spillover in general, and all the other aforementioned social/political factors.

Women don't need men for survival anymore in western society. Even if they do for emotional reasons, women have an abundance of men, many of whom are very high quality and far better than them in a "rational" market. Therefore when you step up to a woman in real life 2017 vs 1950, you are not so special. Imagine your favorite flavor ice cream. But you eat so much of it that you're ready to puke. Even though it's your favorite, very high quality ice cream, you're so stuffed that you just can't take anymore. Women no longer worry at all about whether they will ever find a good boyfriend, or just a reasonably decent man period. They will never worry about dying alone, unless they are maybe over 50 and finally they realize the Magic School Bus ride is over. (In this market the "Wall" is pushed backwards by male thirst - men are so desperate they will still chase a 40 year old and brag that they banged a "MILF" as if every 40 year old looks like Stifler's Mom.)

Over the past 10 years, pretty much since I first asked "what the hell is facebook?" and when it was only used in certain colleges as a kind of within-college kind of thing... I have noticed a dramatic reduction in general default attention of women. I'm not the most handsome, but not bad looking. And when I added a little bit of "game" to that, it was enough. I used to get a fair bit of eyecontact, whether cold on the street, or of course even more so in a social circle setting, flaking was the exception not the rule, you didn't have to bang on the first date just to keep her around. I haven't become noticeably less attractive, in fact especially my verbal "game" is a lot better and I understand women a lot better than I did as a student. But still it's harder than 10 years ago, and even if there is "success", attitudes fucking stink. Again, because they can. Why be nice to a man when you can do absolutely nothing? Why be thin? Why not do jack shit with your life? There are no negative consequences for women. My personal experiences of palpable difficulty changes in just a single decade can be seen by simply going outside and observing couples. Women are fucking way, way, way UP. They are dating way UP. Men, even ripped and confident men, are dating DOWN.

When the woman gets to 30 and has 3 kids and takes antidepressants and is fat, then maybe a hardworking doctor will stand a chance to grow old with her and live happily ever after. He will take being a cuckold for the rest of his life because of such constricted choice among average men.

As for DigitalNomad, he is an outlier. He is in the top 1% or less of "game". When I was a student I used to hang around with naturals and they loved to party, loved to drink, could remain fit and healthy despite drinking like sailors and partying and gaming pretty much every night except Sunday night. For the average guy wanting to improve his results in the current market, reading DN's thread will just make him feel confused and inadequate. For whatever reasons that guy is a beast and no matter how much 99.9% of us here improve ourselves, we will reach our maximum potential which is likely to still not be good enough to reach DN's level.

Trump can't make change for disillusioned men. Unless he bans smartphones for women, bans all social media and add assets of these corporations to fund these new policies, stops women having the vote, takes away welfare, removes child support and alimony laws to create disincentive from single motherhood and divorce, and aggressively pursues feminists as criminals since they are responsible for the destruction of western society. This includes the political figures who have enabled this, for in the background we all know it was a man who gives women permission to do anything. Men created this society that is creating a sexual desert for 95% of them. Only men can get it back, but if the most powerful man couldn't do it, I don't see how this is going to be solved.

[Sebastian]

Didnt read your whole essay but you seem pretty unhappy

(06-25-2017 12:56 PM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  

(06-24-2017 04:13 PM)Darkwing Buck Wrote:  

The looks bar has raised in men in the western world not because of Tinder but due to the entire skew of the sexual market place.

In this modern society where culture and society promotes feminism and equality and material needs are provided by either a corporation through her salary/benefits or the government through welfare, women no longer need to select men for anything other than what gets their pussy wet.

Online dating is only a part of the equation. Women have SO MANY OPTIONS and SO LITTLE CONSEQUENCES for choosing the wrong man, that western women can do whatever the fuck they want. Get pregnant by some idiot? No problem get child support and welfare and then go on Facebook and get empowered for being such a strong independent single mother. Single motherhood used to be shameful. Now it's CELEBRATED.

Good summary of what is going on. Kind of sounds like a collation of a few of my larger posts on the Anglo/western market nowadays. Not because you're copying but we've just reached triangulation. On the one hand it's good to know you're not going insane when you see the insanity going on around you (re: "inmates running asylum" - astute observation)... on the other hand, it's still pretty grim.

The phenomenon of online dating/attention whoring apps and the consequent extreme abundance of highest quality men for women, or even the semblance of extreme abundance for women (e.g. many women meet no one from online nowadays but use it to see what they could get and for attention)... this is what I call online to real life "Spillover".

It was already bad enough with the general political and societal changes we were seeing without the fucking internet and smartphones. Destruction of the nuclear family, government and corporations replacing men for material needs, excessively safe environments for women, and general feminist bullshit which has essentially given all and more rights to women without the corresponding responsibilities which men still have to bear as they always have done, and more. The example of single motherhood formerly being a disgraceful and shameful situation now being celebrated is similar to how a fat woman who eats 5000 calories a day is now being celebrated as being "body positive". With some notable exceptions, humans will only do the bare minimum to get what they want. If a woman can be fat, ugly inside and out, a single mother to multiple kids, but still get hot, attractive men to fuck her, then why care about being in shape, being a nice person, or being careful about having sex and popping out babies? There is no incentive, in fact, in many European countries, women receive guaranteed government money if they are single with children. It is based on child protection laws e.g. a child should not be allowed to starve if a man is not around to take care of it, but it's gone way further than that. Or if a woman wants to pursue a career because feminist propaganda says you go girl then she gets the money from corporations or the government if she works for public services. Ask yourself why men haven't gone back to the moon for nearly half a century, or why half a century after men first landed on the moon we haven't gone to Mars yet? Because men back then had a solid family behind them, they didn't have to game to get a woman or even continue to run "marriage game" to keep his marriage alive, he could concentrate on the great things men coming together can achieve. Another reason is that women invaded the workforce and apart from nursing and child care, women are shit at jobs compared to men, especially if the goal is fucking space travel.

Women are the bane of human progress, but are still fundamentally necessary to bring more people into this world.

Now you add smartphones, internet and social media to the above mix and over time you have total chaos. Fat, ugly women demanding Brad Pitt in Fight Club lookalikes and they get them. Once they have that real life experience, and the constant online attention which never switches off, then you have a situation where this becomes the "norm" however twisted it is. Maybe something like Bitcoin is in a complete bubble right now, or something like the madness of the tulip bubble - sometimes certain factors align such that there is chaotic, irrational pandemonium in the market and all you can do is watch as the insanity unfolds.

As to the specific question in OP: The answer is "yes", but this is only part of it. It applies to all aspects of a male. I do agree that the habit of judging quickly by appearance has increased greatly due to the nature of the apps now most popular, so the answer is "yes, looks are especially affected". Looks matter disproportionately to what women actually are attracted to. That is a bizarre statement to make, but it's just become habit. Women are attracted to strength, resilience, charm etc., but why even bother to get to know someone below what she could and has gotten online? While the disproportionate focus on a man's looks or his "image" when he first steps up in real life may be increasingly the case, the far bigger factor is the online to real life spillover in general, and all the other aforementioned social/political factors.

Women don't need men for survival anymore in western society. Even if they do for emotional reasons, women have an abundance of men, many of whom are very high quality and far better than them in a "rational" market. Therefore when you step up to a woman in real life 2017 vs 1950, you are not so special. Imagine your favorite flavor ice cream. But you eat so much of it that you're ready to puke. Even though it's your favorite, very high quality ice cream, you're so stuffed that you just can't take anymore. Women no longer worry at all about whether they will ever find a good boyfriend, or just a reasonably decent man period. They will never worry about dying alone, unless they are maybe over 50 and finally they realize the Magic School Bus ride is over. (In this market the "Wall" is pushed backwards by male thirst - men are so desperate they will still chase a 40 year old and brag that they banged a "MILF" as if every 40 year old looks like Stifler's Mom.)

Over the past 10 years, pretty much since I first asked "what the hell is facebook?" and when it was only used in certain colleges as a kind of within-college kind of thing... I have noticed a dramatic reduction in general default attention of women. I'm not the most handsome, but not bad looking. And when I added a little bit of "game" to that, it was enough. I used to get a fair bit of eyecontact, whether cold on the street, or of course even more so in a social circle setting, flaking was the exception not the rule, you didn't have to bang on the first date just to keep her around. I haven't become noticeably less attractive, in fact especially my verbal "game" is a lot better and I understand women a lot better than I did as a student. But still it's harder than 10 years ago, and even if there is "success", attitudes fucking stink. Again, because they can. Why be nice to a man when you can do absolutely nothing? Why be thin? Why not do jack shit with your life? There are no negative consequences for women. My personal experiences of palpable difficulty changes in just a single decade can be seen by simply going outside and observing couples. Women are fucking way, way, way UP. They are dating way UP. Men, even ripped and confident men, are dating DOWN.

When the woman gets to 30 and has 3 kids and takes antidepressants and is fat, then maybe a hardworking doctor will stand a chance to grow old with her and live happily ever after. He will take being a cuckold for the rest of his life because of such constricted choice among average men.

As for DigitalNomad, he is an outlier. He is in the top 1% or less of "game". When I was a student I used to hang around with naturals and they loved to party, loved to drink, could remain fit and healthy despite drinking like sailors and partying and gaming pretty much every night except Sunday night. For the average guy wanting to improve his results in the current market, reading DN's thread will just make him feel confused and inadequate. For whatever reasons that guy is a beast and no matter how much 99.9% of us here improve ourselves, we will reach our maximum potential which is likely to still not be good enough to reach DN's level.

Trump can't make change for disillusioned men. Unless he bans smartphones for women, bans all social media and add assets of these corporations to fund these new policies, stops women having the vote, takes away welfare, removes child support and alimony laws to create disincentive from single motherhood and divorce, and aggressively pursues feminists as criminals since they are responsible for the destruction of western society. This includes the political figures who have enabled this, for in the background we all know it was a man who gives women permission to do anything. Men created this society that is creating a sexual desert for 95% of them. Only men can get it back, but if the most powerful man couldn't do it, I don't see how this is going to be solved.

[soup]

I'd say that the presentation bar for men in general has been raised due to feminism. Since women can make their own money now, they don't financial support from men. Guys can't rely on being a provider to get a girl like men used to in the past. The result is that other attractive aspects get more attention. Looks and presentation are probably more important now for men than they were back in the day.

[brick tamland]

OP your thesis is credible.
Why would a 6 or 7 "settle" for an average guy she met IRL, when there's a steady stream of guys presenting themselves to her online?
Online dating gives them more options than ever. The guy with better pics has an advantage, as he'll at least get her attention. The same guy probably puts more effort into his appearance IRL.
So the chick has certain expectations of the guys she will regard as being in the dating pool.
Conclusion - Online dating has raised women's expectations of men's appearance in real life.

[Darkwing Buck]

(06-25-2017 02:52 PM)brick tamland Wrote:  

OP your thesis is credible.
Why would a 6 or 7 "settle" for an average guy she met IRL, when there's a steady stream of guys presenting themselves to her online?
Online dating gives them more options than ever. The guy with better pics has an advantage, as he'll at least get her attention. The same guy probably puts more effort into his appearance IRL.
So the chick has certain expectations of the guys she will regard as being in the dating pool.
Conclusion - Online dating has raised women's expectations of men's appearance in real life.

Here's the thing.

I would argue that a majority of the women with Tinder/okcupid/pof accounts have very little conviction or intention in ACTUALLY meeting up with the guys they speak to online.

They're online for the attention/validation, not dick and relationships. I know lots of girls with dating profiles, I don't know a lot who actually go on dates from it. Most girls/guys meet people through social circle and that hasn't changed with online dating.

The girls who regularly rely on online dating are usually trash and low quality women.

Does anyone here actually know high quality women who regularly meet up with men from online dating? I sure as hell don't and I don't think I ever have.

Now while women may have higher expectations of men's real life appearances, I disagree that it is solely or even 50% related to online dating. I think it's more of an economic and cultural thing. Hence why in poorer countries if a man simply has money, he commands attention of beautiful woman. It's partly why the "gringo effect" even exists. Because gringos are associated with wealth.

So I think the conclusion is flawed. Women's expectations have increased, but online dating is only a part of the picture that I think it's a disservice to only conclude this one aspect is responsible for the whole picture. So I partly agree with you but also disagree.

Also @Sebastian you're making a lot of bitchmade and woman like comments in this thread. First you tell me repeatedly I cared about validating women and being "hurt" by rejection when I clearly and repeatedly stated why I don't use online. Then you didn't even address that. Then when Skank Hut made a post you not only had the audacity to admit you didn't even read it, you then used feminine shaming language to say he's unhappy.

Instead of actually arguing the points in his post in a logical manner, you speak like a woman and use shaming language and try to dismiss what he said by saying he's unhappy.

It's annoying when men act passive aggressive like women.

[Steve McQueen]

The short answer is yes but its more than just dating apps, its society as a whole has had all the checks and balances removed, we know where this is going by looking back at the history of the Roman Empire.

The good news is that it wont last, nature will correct it eventually and the balance will be restored.

We can all consider ourselves very unfortunate in respect of marriage and kids with the current crop of harlots we are competing for, the 60's generation have a lot to answer for.

[Sebastian]

Yes I decided to disassociate myself with guys bitching and blaming here. They not only bitch about it but want you to agree with them. If you dont agree with them, they will get mad.

I dont have to support him just because he is another Man. If he is a real Man, he should look at himself instead of blaming other shits. ('Hey nothing is wrong with me. All women are crazy and delusional on tinder')

After all, if someone is having trouble with Tinder or whatever, I didnt cause it. Why get mad at me.
You might win over arguments but it wont change anything.

Btw That paragraph I highlighted sounded pretty bitter. If i meet a person talking like that, i will stay away. Come out to meet me in public. Talk like that and i will talk like this. Lets see who will look Stupid in front of all genders.

[Skank_Hunt]

Many of my posts - and many posts of other members here - are negative, simply because there is a lot of negative shit going on, to put it lightly.

In order to navigate a territory successfully and without grave injury, you have to either be extremely lucky or actually possess a reasonably accurate "map" of the territory.

It's obvious I'm unhappy about the situation in the West, not just on a micro level for me, but for all of us. Damn right I am unhappy when I hear a story of a guy falsely imprisoned for rape, his only saving grace a piece of new evidence, not changing the fact irreparable damage to his life and career, plus of course maybe half a decade of confinement. Damn right I am unhappy when I hear aggressive, militant leftist propaganda day in day out. Damn right I am unhappy for quite a few of the guys I know (not forum guys, just average old friends, coworkers etc.) being cuckolds to a fat warpig. Sure, there are still pretty girls in the west but even if you find one not obsessed with her smartphone the percentage is going down every day. There is no need for women to maintain themselves as high quality inside or out, while men in response to these ever diminishing ratios engage in a fierce arms race with each other for scraps. If you can't see this shit going on in the west, you are blind.

To know the above is the challenge which you must face. The best option is to improve your life and sort out your shit so you can move long-term to better places, where you are more likely to see me out in the streets talking to sweet, pleasant, feminine girls than posting about how awful the west is. Nonetheless, these things have to be acknowledged and understood otherwise as above you're just flying blind. Having values that you support and likewise knowing the things which you oppose will ultimately lead to a better life. Burying your head in the sand will not. Scraping from the bottom of the barrel on Tinder or couchsurfing will absolutely not.

If you don't like a post or have nothing to add to a discussion, then I don't see the point of posting anything in the first place. There are tons of guys on here, some of whom I maintain contact with outside the forum, who say "fuck the west" and are living it up in EE/SEA/SA. They are paying less money, working less, and banging hotter, more pleasant women, for 10x less stress and effort, all because, at some point, it clicked in their heads that the market in the west had become insane, the political/social climate in the west has become increasingly hostile to the average heterosexual male, and that far greener pastures lay elsewhere. To be negative about something which is objectively negative is not to be a negative person per se, and in fact in the case of these forum members, it took negative realizations to arrive at a good, satisfying life. If you disagree with these points, then that is fine, and if these are not the type of men you would "rather not associate with", then go and join the legions of cuckolds, whiteknights, dating app addicts: there are plenty in the USA, a couple orders of magnitude greater than the membership of this forum for one.

The observation of the amount of apparently high quality men in LTRs with mentally ill women with kids by another man is an observation: something I am seeing all around me. In the past, this was unacceptable and a deal breaker. Now, men have no choice but to not only accept such women, but also become complete simps and provide for children who are not even theirs. This is happening all around me, in real life, not just via online dating. No one is looking for everyone to agree with them, but when we come to objective conclusions together, using logic, it's a very helpful tool for the posters and random guys reading the posts to get some triangulation as far as what is really going on.

The worst time for me was a few years ago when I knew something was "wrong" but I didn't quite know what that was. It's like you're fumbling around in your life completely blind, being swept away left and right like a leaf in the wind.

When you come to the confirmation: "X is fucked", you are now at the stage of finding solutions, and if X is irreparable, then you need something new. The aims and goals that arise from such negative conclusions are actually extremely positive. Does anyone here "not want to associate" with Roosh, because Roosh has said some "negative" things about the west? Fuck no: he has opened the eyes of many blind men to the truth, and suggested ways to find happiness despite those negative things.

The topic in discussion was the increasing value placed on initial looks in western society by women as a result of dating apps. The question was being discussed productively.

Dating apps are used by women to fuck/date way up the top 1% of men, or more commonly now just for attention and to see which men they could get. That's the way it works nowadays. If you're still grinding it out on Tinder or POF or whatever, go ahead, but hating on people who post about how it really is and how it has impacted real life choices (the original topic of the thread) is what was being discussed. If you don't like the negative statements about online dating or the western dating market in general then maybe you've stumbled on the wrong place, because there's a lot of that here given that a lot of us like to travel and bang hot, feminine girls when we do.

[Putin Closes]

(06-25-2017 03:14 PM)Darkwing Buck Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 02:52 PM)brick tamland Wrote:  

OP your thesis is credible.
Why would a 6 or 7 "settle" for an average guy she met IRL, when there's a steady stream of guys presenting themselves to her online?
Online dating gives them more options than ever. The guy with better pics has an advantage, as he'll at least get her attention. The same guy probably puts more effort into his appearance IRL.
So the chick has certain expectations of the guys she will regard as being in the dating pool.
Conclusion - Online dating has raised women's expectations of men's appearance in real life.

Here's the thing.

I would argue that a majority of the women with Tinder/okcupid/pof accounts have very little conviction or intention in ACTUALLY meeting up with the guys they speak to online.

They're online for the attention/validation, not dick and relationships. I know lots of girls with dating profiles, I don't know a lot who actually go on dates from it. Most girls/guys meet people through social circle and that hasn't changed with online dating.

The girls who regularly rely on online dating are usually trash and low quality women.

Does anyone here actually know high quality women who regularly meet up with men from online dating? I sure as hell don't and I don't think I ever have.

Now while women may have higher expectations of men's real life appearances, I disagree that it is solely or even 50% related to online dating. I think it's more of an economic and cultural thing. Hence why in poorer countries if a man simply has money, he commands attention of beautiful woman. It's partly why the "gringo effect" even exists. Because gringos are associated with wealth.

So I think the conclusion is flawed. Women's expectations have increased, but online dating is only a part of the picture that I think it's a disservice to only conclude this one aspect is responsible for the whole picture. So I partly agree with you but also disagree.

Also @Sebastian you're making a lot of bitchmade and woman like comments in this thread. First you tell me repeatedly I cared about validating women and being "hurt" by rejection when I clearly and repeatedly stated why I don't use online. Then you didn't even address that. Then when Skank Hut made a post you not only had the audacity to admit you didn't even read it, you then used feminine shaming language to say he's unhappy.

Instead of actually arguing the points in his post in a logical manner, you speak like a woman and use shaming language and try to dismiss what he said by saying he's unhappy.

It's annoying when men act passive aggressive like women.

I dont know I think majority of women DO intend to meet the RIGHT guy. So if youre getting flakes / no replies, she has better options. Thats just how the game is played.

Essentially must own your niche, be THE first choice guy of her desired dating preferences. If your second, your last, unless the first choice guy disappears. Ever wonder why girls suddenly message you out of nowhere?

No its not cause they miss you. You can't fault them for that. I do the exact same thing, group girls into my top tier and middle tier.

I even message my middle tier if a top tier girl flakes via online.

Now in the US my niche is quite small, so my matches are a fraction of what I get in Asia, BUT i realize girls who like my type usually don't flake as I am their numero UNO on the dating roulette.

Got to strike while the iron is hot.

So yes, definitely the bar has been raised for girls who dabble in online. Which aint a bad thing, get to the gym, lift, eat healthy and raise your own SMV.

[Comte De St. Germain]

If you approach in person you start figuring out real fast that all the ego bullshit you hear about isn't all that bad and the attitude nonexistent barring certain cities. Online dating just attracts the dregs, though I understand why guys use it get easy stress free lays.

[Synezthetic]

(06-25-2017 10:18 PM)Comte De St. Germain Wrote:  

If you approach in person you start figuring out real fast that all the ego bullshit you hear about isn't all that bad barring certain cities. Online dating just attracts the dregs though I understand why guys use it get easy stress free lays.

I noticed this too.

While I do think the ego thing is very real with young American women, your perception of it is heavily influenced and it will seem a lot worse if you spend a lot of time on Tinder, Instagram, etc. looking at all of those profiles, which do nothing but reinforce those thoughts.

I met a girl in person, and later looked at her IG profile. At first glance, it seemed like the typical hot girl IG profile that you'd think would scream narcissist - but in reality her personality was actually really easy-going and she didn't take herself too seriously. A lot of these girls just follow other girls on IG and copy what they do.

[Comte De St. Germain]

(06-25-2017 10:40 PM)Synezthetic Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 10:18 PM)Comte De St. Germain Wrote:  

If you approach in person you start figuring out real fast that all the ego bullshit you hear about isn't all that bad barring certain cities. Online dating just attracts the dregs though I understand why guys use it get easy stress free lays.

I noticed this too.

While I do think the ego thing is very real with young American women, your perception of it is heavily influenced and it will seem a lot worse if you spend a lot of time on Tinder, Instagram, etc. looking at all of those profiles, which do nothing but reinforce those thoughts.

I met a girl in person, and later looked at her IG profile. At first glance, it seemed like the typical hot girl IG profile that you'd think would scream narcissist - but in reality her personality was actually really easy-going and she didn't take herself too seriously. A lot of these girls just follow other girls on IG and copy what they do.

Put it better than I did. Make a chick laugh a few times and that faux personality goes away with a snap of the finger.

[Sebastian]

I realized we are living in different environments hence we can't just agree.

I guess you are associated with guys who failed with women. ('being cuckolds to a fat warpig')
'hey I got a friend who got cheated on, hey I got a friend who has a fat wife sitting home hugging the fridge, hey I got a friend who got raped in divorce court' (I see this a lot on this forum)

And that is why you see it that way. I can understand.
I knew only one guy whose wife cheated on him with his office manager's husband. She left him with that guy even though they both had kids from their marriages. It was pretty fucked up situation but I didn't change my view towards all women because of this. But if I keep hearing this from friends, maybe I will lean towards that way too.

'There is no need for women to maintain themselves as high quality inside or out, while men in response to these ever diminishing ratios engage in a fierce arms race with each other for scraps. If you can't see this shit going on in the west, you are blind'

I don't see it where I live. I see compatible happy couples everywhere. Sometimes I see a fat chick with a slim guy. Sometimes I see a hot girl with how the fuck is he dating her type guy too.
If I walk into a bar next to my place, I see all decent human beings hanging out and just having fun as couples, mixed groups, just guys or girls. I don't see bunch of blue color, smelly guys sitting together bitching about current politics, job situations, their wives and women in general. I choose not to go to places like that so maybe that's why I will never understand.

(06-25-2017 07:04 PM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  

Many of my posts - and many posts of other members here - are negative, simply because there is a lot of negative shit going on, to put it lightly.

In order to navigate a territory successfully and without grave injury, you have to either be extremely lucky or actually possess a reasonably accurate "map" of the territory.

It's obvious I'm unhappy about the situation in the West, not just on a micro level for me, but for all of us. Damn right I am unhappy when I hear a story of a guy falsely imprisoned for rape, his only saving grace a piece of new evidence, not changing the fact irreparable damage to his life and career, plus of course maybe half a decade of confinement. Damn right I am unhappy when I hear aggressive, militant leftist propaganda day in day out. Damn right I am unhappy for quite a few of the guys I know (not forum guys, just average old friends, coworkers etc.) being cuckolds to a fat warpig. Sure, there are still pretty girls in the west but even if you find one not obsessed with her smartphone the percentage is going down every day. There is no need for women to maintain themselves as high quality inside or out, while men in response to these ever diminishing ratios engage in a fierce arms race with each other for scraps. If you can't see this shit going on in the west, you are blind.

To know the above is the challenge which you must face. The best option is to improve your life and sort out your shit so you can move long-term to better places, where you are more likely to see me out in the streets talking to sweet, pleasant, feminine girls than posting about how awful the west is. Nonetheless, these things have to be acknowledged and understood otherwise as above you're just flying blind. Having values that you support and likewise knowing the things which you oppose will ultimately lead to a better life. Burying your head in the sand will not. Scraping from the bottom of the barrel on Tinder or couchsurfing will absolutely not.

If you don't like a post or have nothing to add to a discussion, then I don't see the point of posting anything in the first place. There are tons of guys on here, some of whom I maintain contact with outside the forum, who say "fuck the west" and are living it up in EE/SEA/SA. They are paying less money, working less, and banging hotter, more pleasant women, for 10x less stress and effort, all because, at some point, it clicked in their heads that the market in the west had become insane, the political/social climate in the west has become increasingly hostile to the average heterosexual male, and that far greener pastures lay elsewhere. To be negative about something which is objectively negative is not to be a negative person per se, and in fact in the case of these forum members, it took negative realizations to arrive at a good, satisfying life. If you disagree with these points, then that is fine, and if these are not the type of men you would "rather not associate with", then go and join the legions of cuckolds, whiteknights, dating app addicts: there are plenty in the USA, a couple orders of magnitude greater than the membership of this forum for one.

The observation of the amount of apparently high quality men in LTRs with mentally ill women with kids by another man is an observation: something I am seeing all around me. In the past, this was unacceptable and a deal breaker. Now, men have no choice but to not only accept such women, but also become complete simps and provide for children who are not even theirs. This is happening all around me, in real life, not just via online dating. No one is looking for everyone to agree with them, but when we come to objective conclusions together, using logic, it's a very helpful tool for the posters and random guys reading the posts to get some triangulation as far as what is really going on.

The worst time for me was a few years ago when I knew something was "wrong" but I didn't quite know what that was. It's like you're fumbling around in your life completely blind, being swept away left and right like a leaf in the wind.

When you come to the confirmation: "X is fucked", you are now at the stage of finding solutions, and if X is irreparable, then you need something new. The aims and goals that arise from such negative conclusions are actually extremely positive. Does anyone here "not want to associate" with Roosh, because Roosh has said some "negative" things about the west? Fuck no: he has opened the eyes of many blind men to the truth, and suggested ways to find happiness despite those negative things.

The topic in discussion was the increasing value placed on initial looks in western society by women as a result of dating apps. The question was being discussed productively.

Dating apps are used by women to fuck/date way up the top 1% of men, or more commonly now just for attention and to see which men they could get. That's the way it works nowadays. If you're still grinding it out on Tinder or POF or whatever, go ahead, but hating on people who post about how it really is and how it has impacted real life choices (the original topic of the thread) is what was being discussed. If you don't like the negative statements about online dating or the western dating market in general then maybe you've stumbled on the wrong place, because there's a lot of that here given that a lot of us like to travel and bang hot, feminine girls when we do.

[Sebastian]

It's like people acting snobby in clubs. (a lot of them look just mad too)

It's not entirely their fault because that's how you are expected to behave in clubs.

So the same snobby chick, might show totally different personality when she is at the bar or sitting next to you at a coffee shop.
(eg: she can just look at you up & down and walk away or even tell you to fuck off at a club. Do you think she will dare to do that when you approach her in public?)

(06-25-2017 10:40 PM)Synezthetic Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 10:18 PM)Comte De St. Germain Wrote:  

If you approach in person you start figuring out real fast that all the ego bullshit you hear about isn't all that bad barring certain cities. Online dating just attracts the dregs though I understand why guys use it get easy stress free lays.

I noticed this too.

While I do think the ego thing is very real with young American women, your perception of it is heavily influenced and it will seem a lot worse if you spend a lot of time on Tinder, Instagram, etc. looking at all of those profiles, which do nothing but reinforce those thoughts.

I met a girl in person, and later looked at her IG profile. At first glance, it seemed like the typical hot girl IG profile that you'd think would scream narcissist - but in reality her personality was actually really easy-going and she didn't take herself too seriously. A lot of these girls just follow other girls on IG and copy what they do.

[Highpool]

There's a visceral jolt that a good approach makes a woman feel, and it's powerful. Tinder can't replicate it.

[Vill@in]

(06-25-2017 03:14 PM)Darkwing Buck Wrote:  

Here's the thing.

I would argue that a majority of the women with Tinder/okcupid/pof accounts have very little conviction or intention in ACTUALLY meeting up with the guys they speak to online.

They're online for the attention/validation, not dick and relationships. I know lots of girls with dating profiles, I don't know a lot who actually go on dates from it. Most girls/guys meet people through social circle and that hasn't changed with online dating.

This is a very important point to remember.

Most of the quality girls using these apps aren't really interested in the 'dating' aspect of these things (i.e. their purpose). They are merely using it as a validation syringe to get that 5 minute dopamine rush. "Oh I have 53 matches in the last 24 hours. I am so pretty!!" That wears off then it's simply rinse/repeat. Maybe one day they pick up the app, look at their messages and pick some random Chad. Meet up with him, hamster a reason to ride his cock, then go home. She then can post on Facebook and complain that she "never meets anyone from these apps; all guys are pigs and just want sex!!" Thus begins a new cycle.

The slogs that actually do use these apps as intended are the lower tier women and/or the Post-Wall women. They may not be able to get laid as easily as the 7+ girls (still can get dick with minimal effort), but not getting 50 messages a day= lower validation=need to know they are wanted and desired. These women are, unfortunately, your easiest targets if you just want to get your dick wet in the most efficient use of time.

I think a lot of guys get discouraged when they write 20 women and get no response back or get a "sorry not interested" reply. Don't take this shit personally and sure as FUCK don't let this affect your day/night game. They are not related. You can easily walk up and open that 7 who is looking at her phone and left swiping Chad. Take her home and bang her brains out. Why? Eye contact, presence, VIBE, CONFIDENCE....basically all the shit you can't replicate over a fucking phone app. THIS is the shit that gets you laid. These apps are just a means for you to get a chance to get to this point.

Cut the middle man out. Go out and approach.

[rudebwoy]

[quote] (06-26-2017 10:28 AM)Vill@in Wrote:  

[quote='Darkwing Buck' pid='1599667' dateline='1498421669']
Here's the thing.

I would argue that a majority of the women with Tinder/okcupid/pof accounts have very little conviction or intention in ACTUALLY meeting up with the guys they speak to online.

They're online for the attention/validation, not dick and relationships. I know lots of girls with dating profiles, I don't know a lot who actually go on dates from it. Most girls/guys meet people through social circle and that hasn't changed with online dating.[/quote]

This is the gospel, if you are relying on online game to get girls.

Then you are missing out big time.

It is summertime, you should be out there talking to everything that moves.

Girls want face to face interaction, not cyber love. You cant fuck them online.

I simply love this time of year.

[Putin Closes]

Come on now. If a model looking guy / top tier smv asked a 7 to hang you think she would reject?

No no no. Your just again not Numero uno on her list. They might match for validation but most definitely will meet with the right guy.

In Asia it was apparently for me as I met some top tier quality in Bangkok / Jakarta. Still chat with girls who are models down to meet when I get back. I am the Numero uno there or among the top guys. Even for 6's, their tinder account had hundreds if not thousands of matches. The rare 8 I banged in Jakarta got pinged every minute by some thirsty guy. Many claim that they don't meet many guys off online but probably saving face.

In the west? Not so much minus my little niche. It's a fact I can deal with. I'd almost guarantee any girl you see in the nightlife probably dabbled with tinder getting her discrete Chad.

But if you meet a girl via social circle or a neutral day environment that's a different ball game. That's where any player should focus now on. Night game is altered by tinder. Now if you don't own your niche, perhaps better just to delete Tinder and concentrate on day game, but its definitely a dog eats dog world online and in the night life. Just the online game costs me 1/5th of what night game would cost.

[chitown72]

(06-26-2017 10:28 AM)Vill@in Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 03:14 PM)Darkwing Buck Wrote:  

Here's the thing.

I would argue that a majority of the women with Tinder/okcupid/pof accounts have very little conviction or intention in ACTUALLY meeting up with the guys they speak to online.

They're online for the attention/validation, not dick and relationships. I know lots of girls with dating profiles, I don't know a lot who actually go on dates from it. Most girls/guys meet people through social circle and that hasn't changed with online dating.

This is a very important point to remember.

Most of the quality girls using these apps aren't really interested in the 'dating' aspect of these things (i.e. their purpose). They are merely using it as a validation syringe to get that 5 minute dopamine rush. "Oh I have 53 matches in the last 24 hours. I am so pretty!!"

I think it's important to mention age ranges as I find the type of behaviour stated above with more of the 20's crowd. I find that the 30's crowd want to find a solid partner or LTR and will actually go out on dates more so than not. However this is also flawed with them as they know there is a steady stream of guys lined up to go out with them.

So this effectively allows them to easily next a guy without putting in any real effort if the guy does/acts/says something the slightest wrong. The gals expects the guys to be perfect in every way when they themselves aren't. Often times too they want that instant connection as expected from the Internet era where everything has to be instant. The real world doesn't work that way. It's like pre-internet where girls are expecting love at first site. Those scenarios rarely happened back then and will continue to be rare, although it does present a false mirage to these gals these days as well.

[Vicious]

Only for people basing their game on Tinder, rather than as a compliment.

[scrambled]

(06-25-2017 03:14 PM)Darkwing Buck Wrote:  

Also @Sebastian ....
It's annoying when men act passive aggressive like women.

"He's" packin' some serious ovaries; more eggs in him than a factory farm hen in Arkansas

[kinjutsu]

Tinder has just added another spectrum to The Game"

Online dating is fun and frustrating at the same time. 4 years ago Tinder was a goldmine. Using it felt like i was using a cheat code to get girls. It mostly boiled down to fuck up avoidance game for 99% of my lays from tinder. Now it feels like people are only on there to talk and get attention.

I stopped using online game cold turkey about 2 years ago because i felt my real life game skill slowly slipping.
There was things i used to be able to do and get away with before tinder but after i could barely close the deal or it would barely slip through my grasps.

If anything Tinder has done anything it has assured any contact with online game dating to weak your in person game.
It almost has the porn effect but on your game instead of your libido.
You get to browse through nearly endless girls in varying attractiveness while even leaving your home.
If you want to see women and potentially approach them you have to get dress, shower , look good etc and leave your house for the CHANCE to meet a few pretty girls.
How is this not unlike porn fucks up our brains...

[captndonk]

I don't know any guy who is
- in good shape
- has an at least average income
- dress himself well ( most men don't know how to do this)
- approach the girls

and still isn't successful. You have control over these 4 points I mentioned.

[Kieran]

^ I know loads of people that meet that criteria that aren't having much success at all.