[Dalaran1991]

When you think about why people who are upper-middle classes like us who did everything we could to get the fuck out of pussy paradise like Vietnam, Philippines and SA, you start to ask questions.

I had 4 years of fun with USA and I dont think I would ever go back there, but it's still a great country where the idea of being a self-made man is more or less feasible. Try doing biz in Vietnam or Russia without paying the right mafia / police gang, and see how long until you end up on the wrong side of the bar. As much as you protest it, the gap between rich/poor is much much higher in other countries than in USA. The richest Vietnamese are probably richer than Bill Gates for all I know, but the average Viet has a much lower standard of living than your Joe.

Besides that, the right to have guns and swords and do all the fun stuff in your backyard is fucking awesome.

3rd world countries are great if you are the top 5% because then you stop paying people, people pay you. But if you are middle class (which most of us will be) it is much better to be a middle class in US / Erope than in 3rd world.

[BrewDog]

(05-19-2017 04:23 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

It just seems odd that you complain about intrusive government in a first world country and romanticise freedom in a lower rent country then complain you can only make good money in the oppressive country.



All I ever hear libertarians talking about is how freedom = a strong economy and taxes/regulation = a terrible economy.

Not that I want to derail the OP but isn't that what this boils down to? If there was a country with this freedom you speak of AND good economic prospects wouldn't we all be rushing to gain citizenship there?

It's odd to me that you despise libertarians. It seems that you might despise liberals worse, yet there are no liberals left here. Why is that?

We all know why.

Libertarians are the dying breed left here for you to argue with, so you should love the fact that we're here. When we're all gone, who will you argue with then?

[Leonard D Neubache]

I don't despise libertarians. I just pity them. I see them as well intentioned but misguided. The trouble is that they often rage against the world and everyone who doesn't agree with them, which makes them hard to have a reasonable conversation with.

[Hypno]

it doesn't matter which is the best country in the world, only which country is best for you.

most american stay here because they are ignorant of other opportunties. the few who have traveled overseas stay because they weigh the costs and benefits. For me, my standard of living is higher by staying due to my job opportunities. But people with location independent businesses, and retirees, often leave.

The movie clip above the actor claims there are 180 countries with freedom. I don't know about the number but yeah you wouldn't lose many freedoms by moving to Australia or New Zealand or Europe. But you would lose job opportunities, and your standard of living goes down because things there cost a little more so long as the dollar is the world's reserve currency.

[Fortis]

Honestly, I do think America is probably the best place to get rich. I say that across the world in china, but in terms of access and speed, I think an American making 6 figures and above has to do way less than a native Chinese person has to do.

A lot of the bureaucratic cheese is not present in the USA. You got the idea and the capital? You can make it happen.

China? Do you got the idea and capital? There are still 100+ people you need to bribe and someone (big daddy government) can just snatch your shit out from under you when they deem it to be the right time.

I'm exaggerating a bit but I think that USA is a great place once you're ahead, but it's a brutal place when you're still learning the ropes.

[Conquerer7]

(05-19-2017 06:05 AM)Fortis Wrote:  

Honestly, I do think America is probably the best place to get rich. I say that across the world in china, but in terms of access and speed, I think an American making 6 figures and above has to do way less than a native Chinese person has to do.

A lot of the bureaucratic cheese is not present in the USA. You got the idea and the capital? You can make it happen.

China? Do you got the idea and capital? There are still 100+ people you need to bribe and someone (big daddy government) can just snatch your shit out from under you when they deem it to be the right time.

I'm exaggerating a bit but I think that USA is a great place once you're ahead, but it's a brutal place when you're still learning the ropes.

Are the working hours in China and Asia as a whole not insane? With hardly any holidays aswell?

[Fortis]

(05-19-2017 06:33 AM)Conquerer7 Wrote:  

(05-19-2017 06:05 AM)Fortis Wrote:  

Honestly, I do think America is probably the best place to get rich. I say that across the world in china, but in terms of access and speed, I think an American making 6 figures and above has to do way less than a native Chinese person has to do.

A lot of the bureaucratic cheese is not present in the USA. You got the idea and the capital? You can make it happen.

China? Do you got the idea and capital? There are still 100+ people you need to bribe and someone (big daddy government) can just snatch your shit out from under you when they deem it to be the right time.

I'm exaggerating a bit but I think that USA is a great place once you're ahead, but it's a brutal place when you're still learning the ropes.

Are the working hours in China and Asia as a whole not insane? With hardly any holidays aswell?

If you work a teaching job like I do, you get 3 months off with at least 1 month paid leave for holidays. There are like 2 holidays a month, so the hours aren't crazy for teachers. I also only work 11 hours a week but have more than enough money to save and pay off my loans.

If you want to work in a chinese business environment on the ground level, be prepared ot work 50+ hours a week, make less money than me, have your schedule changed last minute, and all sorts of nonsense.

Unless you are the top of your industry I would strongly recommend avoiding a corporate job in china. It's way worse than America corporate work and you have even fewer work rights because it's china and you are foreign.

[Jetset]

Two thoughts:

- It is generally my experience that people who can't make themselves reasonably content somewhere will not make themselves content anywhere. Some of what you're describing points to a conflict-prone personality. I'm not saying this as a criticism, but rather as an observation that you might tend to find yourself biting off more than you can chew at times, and that this won't change in another country. I have libertarian sympathies, too, and I'm familiar with the attraction organized libertarianism holds for this personality type - and the relationship between the prevalence of this personality type and the failure of organized libertarianism.



- Overall, the United States offers a high degree of economic freedom. It's no model libertarian state, to be sure, but there is less red tape, more transparency, and more legal stability than you see in certain "cheaper" corners of the world. If this is a priority for you, moving to a country where local officials can often do whatever the hell they want for LOLs without so much as a hearing is not the most obvious reaction.

With that said, I'm reasonably well-traveled. I'm certainly disabused of the American notion that this is the world's only great country, and can sympathize with a lot of what you're saying. The appeal of riding out some of my years at a cafe in Rio is real for me. Expatriating may be a totally reasonable idea. I'm just not sure you've thought it all the way through based on the way you frame it.

[stefpdt]

Let's just say the U.S. is a paradox.

On one hand, you have plenty of legitimately life-changing opportunities available to you in the U.S. Registering a business here can change you life in 1 to 10+ years. You have direct access to the world's best, hungriest consumers.

On the other hand, the consumerism and superficiality of the U.S. is a double-edged sword. It will eventually get at your soul.

I personally like the idea of doing a time-split: 6 months in the U.S. for first-world luxuries and stability, and 6 months in the third world for less stability and more fun.

[Jetset]

(05-19-2017 09:36 AM)stefpdt Wrote:  

I personally like the idea of doing a time-split: 6 months in the U.S. for first-world luxuries and stability, and 6 months in the third world for less stability and more fun.

...yeah, but then I can't take the FEIE.

[Vill@in]

Family for me. Nothing is more important in life...especially as you get older and watch your parents get older. Every moment you get to spend with them is a blessing.

Talking about last night's baseball game with dad over the phone is good and all, but it doesn't compare to sitting down with him over a beer and talking about how much of a bum the pitcher was. Writing mom an email talking about how you miss her cooking isn't as good as stopping by for a few minutes and seeing her giddy with happiness that you came to visit her even only for a few minutes.

I don't know your parental situation OP. Perhaps they have passed or you are estranged with them. I hope that's not the case. For the ones lucky enough to still have one or both of our parents here on this earth, then I think we should spend any free moment we can with them. Especially as they get older. Their health will fail and they will depend on me more and more. I don't want to be halfway across the world and get a call that my father has fallen and broken his hip. I don't want to throw my mom in a nursing home and only visit her on the holidays or when I am feeling guilty. They were there when I shit my pants and wiped my ass. I will be there for them when the roles are reversed.

[worldwidetraveler]

(05-19-2017 02:12 AM)BrewDog Wrote:  

So, you don't care about anyone else's opinions. You're just sold that America is the greatest and you won't hear any arguments otherwise. Got it. That's exactly what I thought I was dealing with.

This is a prime example of congnitive dissonance. As Scott Adams would point out we have it starting with the So example. Then we proceed with absurd absolutes that had nothing to do with what GlobalMan said.

[worldwidetraveler]

(05-19-2017 12:33 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

The United States is a "piece of shit".

LOL. Sure BrewDog.

I find it crazy when people call the United States shitty, say they want more freedom, and then turn around and praise what are often genuine shitholes, or other places that don't have 1/5 of the freedoms but do have 20x the corruption and bullshit.

Sucking Latina and Asian titties is excellent, but lets not pretend places like Colombia and Vietnam are the land of the free and home to all that is excellent and right. Too many guys just can't take these places for what they are and enjoy- they insist on pretending they are paradises all the way through, when that could not be further from reality to anyone who has lived in those places for years.

I've been fortunate to live all around the world in the past 15 years or so, and while the U.S. is far from perfect it offers a balance of things that really doesn't exist anywhere else, and is one of the best places to live all things considered. There are other great places too- but I wouldn't tear up my blue passport for any price.

I may or may not stay in the United States long term, but I'm perfectly happy back living here at the moment. I know I could be happy elsewhere as well, I have been many times, but I'm under no silly illusions that there exists some paradise in rural Luzon or Envigado where life is more "genuine" or "free".

I agree GlobalMan.

I equated a lot of this to greener pastures syndrome. I even wrote a post about when I came back to the US to live.

thread-29292.html

If we focus only on the bad then that is all we tend to see.

[Hypno]

A place to check out is Estonia. Great business climate, but terrible climate for weather 6+ months of the year, and if the neocons start a war with Russia not the place you want to be.

Rio has some plusses but an unstable government and crime. Also, less English language.

[1818Steve]

(05-19-2017 03:26 AM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

OP, is this thread going in the direction you were hoping for?

I think this thread led him back to Happier Abroad.

[Kid Twist]

Did Brew get banned on account of this thread?

There is, and will always be, a grass is greener phenomenon with fallen creatures such as ourselves. We even see it in microcosms within our own country when social media popped up. I would call most of the disparity regional (hot women with given physical characteristics), but the overwhelming difference is the human universal: people who have and aren't worried about survival or security tend to be self absorbed pieces of dookie. The converse is of course that you are forced to develop character, quality human relationships and appreciate things when you don't have them.

This explains our country, the world, and why most of us would like to meet other people from other (poorer) countries. The funny thing is how many offshoots and ideas there are, because again, people (again, tend to) change when you all of a sudden change their reality! Especially women ...

[All or Nothing]

(05-19-2017 02:47 AM)roberto Wrote:  

The grass is always greener guys.... There are plenty of us Brits who would kill to have the option of living in a cabin in rural USA with acres of woods and all the guns we could store.

That's what my uncle does. I would go on summer trips with him to his house in the rural west, chill by the pond, watch the deer, go to the river that cut through his property, and go fishing. I used to idolize him because of it all seemed to stoke a feeling of freedom and independence.

[Sherman]

When I lived in the Netherlands, I had over a month of vacation every year. That extra time was more important to me than the extra convenience of living in the US. In the US there are people living rich in material goods, but suffering in social poverty, in one of the most isolating countries on earth. If someone is socially isolated, he may be better of finding a friendlier country. If one's core values includes comfort, than the US is probably better.

[Sonoma]

I find that America is great in terms of earning potential. It's relatively easy to make 50,000 a year or more and still have a decent life. If you even put away 10 of that a year for travel you're going to be living well on an annual vacation.

Other countries' infrastructure is beyond inadequate and frustrating. If I absolutely had to move, it'd probably be to a place like Spain. The weather in other parts of the world is highly undesirable to me

[kirdiesel]

After 6+ years outside of the US I find the quality of life (with the exception of the women) to be much much better.

Also great in terms of earning potential.. thats why I have shifted half of my business focus back to the US. Had enough of the BS here.

[General Stalin]

There are a few things about the US that make it more free than others realize.

One example - USA does not offer federally subsidized paid maternity leave. It is one of two countries that to not offer this benefit. Believe or not, this is one of the things that make the US more free. The reason is because the government does not force business owners to give paid leave to their employees for any reason. The US is a county of OPTIONS. You have the option to shop around for your own healthcare (or even go without). You have the option to say what you want to say. Believe it or not, not all countries have Freedom of Speech in their constitutional documents. Not even Canada has Freedom of Speech (remember when that Canadian comedian was sued for telling jokes about a disabled kid during one of his acts?)

I don't know a shitload about all the laws in all other countries, but I do know America is pretty decent and it's quite easy to live comfortable here, even as a foreign immigrant.

[Robert High Hawk]

(05-19-2017 02:26 PM)kirdiesel Wrote:  

After 6+ years outside of the US I find the quality of life (with the exception of the women) to be much much better.

Also great in terms of earning potential.. thats why I have shifted half of my business focus back to the US. Had enough of the BS here.

Kirdeisel,

Can you please elaborate on what kind of BS became tiring for you in Germany? Was this purely professional or other things that grated on you? If it was indeed professional, did you see this as particular to just your industry or across others as well?

Sincerely appreciate any insight you have this regarding Germany.

[Kona]

(05-19-2017 12:19 AM)Jean Valjean Wrote:  

I already have plane tickets to take a three-week vacation in the Philippines this November, so I'm thinking I'll take the next several months to get rid of any possessions I don't need anymore, scan in documents and throw away the paper copies, and generally wind up my affairs in the U.S. so that I don't need to come back here for anything.

I need you to eat balut on your first day there. Then tell us how you feel.

Aloha!

[Off The Reservation]

If you are going to get banned at least do it in a real thread not one started by this fake fiction writer Jean Valjean who never once answered being called out for BS about four different wives including whores and feminist bloggers.

Clearly, this subject confused and caused BrewDog to get emotional. The little mini-anti-usa rant that this thread evoked from him is most likely just because he is broke and isn't getting any. People don't realize that their words reveal a lot when not carefully crafted, eg BrewDog saying he stays in the US because he makes money. Translation: stays because he has never figured out how to get free from small bills and obligations and is chained by choice to the salary he is making. The beer on the street rant? High standards man. Asking GlobalMan if he has been anywhere? Nice one man. BrewDog, good luck man I hope you fix what's bothering you.

But back to JV. Whatever subject is posted, JV seems to want to discredit the underlying idea. He claims now that the Libertarian party expelled him. Another load of crap fiction. The libertarian party has never "expelled" anyone because LP have no principles, authority, or power to do so. They are ineffective and if they didn't exist overnight it would make no difference. Those liberty minded individuals who wanted to serve in public office could do so in the other parties, or a new one, or as independents and would be just as effective. A bunch of crackpots and crackheads untied by nothing threw out JV for being "too red pill?" JV does your self-esteem programming demand you believe that no one reads what you write?

No one cares if you move to the Philippines. Disappear into the slave state where 10,000 people combined do not have the intellect to detect your lies. You will gain more respite from this than from the masculine "laws" you say you seek. Godspeed in "winding up your affairs." I envision you, after landing in November, in some godforsaken village in the most humid and fly infested island of them all, with some short, fat, small chested woman yelling at you in a special shrill 'I am not at the call center now voice' several times a day about incomprehensible subjects. You will feel a sense of libertarian freedom when she lets you go out to buy a six pack, but you will miss out on posting here after she breaks your only laptop.

Say hi to BrewDog over there.

[Sebastian]

After living in U.S almost 15 years as a foreigner, I feel like I've seen enough. I'd like to live in places like europe eventually. (probably france)

I don't understand why if someone hates U.S here, they Always talk about 3rd world countries. Is it because it gives them an instant upper hand? (like you go to poor neighborhoods to look like baller)

When you go to a certain country, you go there to live like one of them. (can you imagine someone saying 'hell no I won't live like americans' when they come here?) Obviously, you won't go there to live like one of them. (working along with filipinos, having a filipino boss etc) You probably have a mentality of I am the special one from United States (even though you hate it) and should be treated differently. I bet you won't pick up the local language since it's useless 3rd world language.

Anyways, why would you want to live in a place you never ever wish you were born there?