[etwsake]

I was reluctant to start this thread, but my situation gets more desperate by the day and if I don't do something drastic it will be too late.

I'm 39 years old, 6 feet tall, and just weighed in at over 300 pounds. I'm not just fat....I'm fucking fat and I'm feeling powerless to reverse it.

A few years ago I was in the best shape I'd been in in about a decade. I lost about 70 pounds of fat and was down to about 240 pounds. Still fat, but it was a tremendous improvement over 300+.

In the last year I put it all back on. I know my mental health played a role in this, but now my depression and weight are so intertwined I don't know where one ends and the other begins.

I've tried dozens of times to replicate my success using the same methods that worked the last time (protein/veggies diet, no carbs, no sugars; weightlifting; cardio) but I can't seem to make it stick more than a few days.

I always go right back to overeating. And I eat the worst shit imaginable for the human body. Lots of oily fatty foods and sugar and chocolate. I get that dopamine blast from the shitty foods and feel really great for an hour or so, and then the self-loathing creeps in. The best way to drown it out? More junk food. Everyone can see the pattern here.

I quit drinking alcohol and haven't had a drop in two years, and I intend to keep it that way. But without booze to soothe me to sleep, any time I've felt anxiety I've turned to food as my drug of choice.

Needless to say I haven't been getting laid.

And now it's worse than just not even wanting to approach women. I don't even want my family, friends, or coworkers to see me. I'm so ashamed of what a fat pig I've become I just want to hide in my room like a recluse.

And I live in Japan, home of some very healthy eating options and a healthy, active lifestyle. Most people come here and drop pounds like crazy. I've done the opposite.

I'm ashamed and disgusted with myself. It was bad enough when I got this fat over years and years of self-indulgence, but after struggling to lose all the weight and watching it come right back on; I just can't express how terrible that feels.

But I have a very simple choice: Either I do something drastic and get myself the fuck back on track right now, or I'm gonna die alone after eating myself to an early grave.

I'm appealing to anyone here that's been in my shoes or even remotely knows what this feels like. I need to find the will power and discipline to make it work. I'm so far gone right now I don't even know where to start...starve myself for a week or two? That always ends in me binging after a few days.

I apologize for displaying such obvious desperation. I know the point of this website is to be self-reliant, but I've never felt so defeated and hopeless before. I just want to get back on the path to burning fat, building muscle, and being healthy. I want to not hate the very fucking sight of myself in the mirror.

Thank you for reading.

[Barron]

Sounds like you see yourself as a loser -- we become what we think about.

It's an inner game issue (your self-image is that of a 300lbs loser). Get out of the house and approach, imagine the worse possible outcome resulting, and whatever happens after will feel like a good outcome.

[Peregrine]

I agree with Nomad on you see yourself as a loser, though I don't recommend approaching as the solution.

Frankly I don't have a solution. I too turn to food as a solution when I'm feeling bummed. (I know this because the worst month in recent memory was also the month I spent an insane amount of money on eating.) That month, I hated myself.

I can't tell you why you hate yourself. But figure out why, work on fixing that (if possible), and the diet takes care of itself.

[TheMost]

I've had similar difficulty getting rid of fat. The ONLY thing that has worked for me is the Potato Hack. It really does work. I've lost 19 pounds in the last 7 weeks, including a couple weeks of layoff.

Others in your situation have dropped 100 pounds in less than a year using the Potato Diet, including "spudfit" and Penn Gilette of the Penn and Teller team.

[Suits]

Don't be reluctant to start threads like this. The only way to meaningfully move forward is to engage in full honest with yourself. Starting a thread like this "makes it real" so to speak, putting your issue into words and then productively seeking a step-by-step solution, with a means of measuring results.

No need to apologize for asking for help. This forum is not about self-reliance, but rather men helping men achieve their goals.

I'm hardly helpful in regards this topic, but I want to assure you that no one here is going to look down on you for asking for help and being honest.

[Leonard D Neubache]

Well done for reaching out at least. You made the right choice.

Have you talked to a doctor about all your options? That would be worth an appointment. Try to find one that specialises in this sort of thing. Talking to a good therapist might be even more beneficial still, but obviously money can be an issue for some people.

The good news is that you've proven before that you can do this. You're just in a slump. It might pay to recognise that your addiction to food is precisely that. An addiction. However it's a tough addiction to kill because it's like trying to quit heroin when every third store sells heroin, everyone uses heroin over three times a day, the television advertises heroin and you can have legal heroin delivered to your door with nothing more than a phone call. A tough spot to be in.

But it's an addiction all the same, hence the reason for your relapse. Some people find help with various group therapy sessions, though there might be few of those in your part of the world. Hell, maybe you could start one. It would be a whole other thing to help other guys while helping yourself at the same time.

But back on track. You might need to find a different way to motivate yourself. Calories are a numbers game. They don't manifest out of thin air. If you're math-minded then it could simply be a matter of turning it into a system of beating the numbers. If not that, try looking at the problem in some other way that makes it more approachable.

Try to find a hobby that's mentally consuming, even if it's one that doesn't involve exercise. Don't allow food in that area of your life. Use it as a form of meditation. It could be competitive computer games or motorcycle riding or building model railways. Anything that carries your focus 100%. Then leave the heavy exercise to fields that don't place you near a fridge, like power walking to work with a weighted vest.

Try to remove the shitty food from your home. Don't even bring through your front door. Do your shopping once a week, but before you go, starve yourself until your stomach shrinks, have a good meal and then go to the shops while you're feeling full and maybe even a little sick. That will help you make smart choices when you're pulling stuff off the shelf.

For me, holidays and special events are a killer for diet related issues. I realised last year that I needed to see these as times of temptation to be fought through, not as times of harmless indulgence (I'm sure I can have just a bit of heroin. After all, it's Christmas, right?)

But in general, you need to accept that like an addict you've built your entire life around supporting your addiction. Reconstruct your life and even if you take two steps backward, as longs as you take three forward you'll get there eventually.

Hope some of that stuff helps. As they say, the devil is in the details and without you going into excruciating detail about your life there's a limit to how precisely we can aim our advice.

[Elster]

I've had weight shifts more than a couple of times. Self worth evaluation level has a lot to do, but the biggest thing in dealing with it on my own personal experience has been *discipline* and *will-power*.
First and foremost, understand and accept that a healthy diet isn't a homework assignment to turn in at school and forget about it until the next exam but a thing for life, if you achieve your goal you will have to maintain it.
I'd stop with the junk food at once, cold turkey. Replace it with horrible tasteless healthy food, starve your flavor receptors to where they 'll have no choice to find the bland stuff delicious. No exceptions, no cheat days, no relaxing. Everytime you feel hungry out of eating times, drink water.
Keep a calorie registry! Carry it on you ALL the time

I would also commence at first light exercise:if you can still jog see how long you can go before reaching the "omfg can' t walk back, gasp, aaair!" and complement with long walks. Resting days shouldn't be connected (i,e:Saturday&Sunday).
At one point you'll be able to do proper aerobic or anaerobic work outs for which this forum is a handy source.

I stress discipline and will power again because
- you will need to do this a long time before you begin to see any perceivable effect.
-you will be tempted by inanimate objects such as flyers and bill boards for food, by commercials and ads on the web, by fellow Internet surfers talking about their food experience, and the worst of all, peer pressure: "oh c' mon it's just this one time" "this isn't going to tip your diet off" "you can burn it out" "this is a special occasion! We are your friends/family/bridge club. Etc"

[Leonard D Neubache]

Personally my experience getting past eating shitty unhealthy food was that eating shitty healthy food just had me ending up back at the pig trough eating that shitty, greasy slop again.

I went in another direction and actually spent more on my food budget than ever before. I bought quality food that was also healthy so that I actually rewarded myself for eating well. The upside was that I ate far less because my body had simply been gorging itself trying to gain its nutritional requirements with tons of garbage that contained barely any real nutritional benefit. But after a few days of eating nicely cooked lean cut steak with a tiny bit of marination and fresh vegetables or buying expensive tropical fruits with retardedly high vitamin counts I was down to eating one or two small meals a day.

Having said that, beating my food addictions has been about recouping my energy and focus levels rather than weight issues.

[Transsimian]

OP, I used to be fat, but I low carbed down to 110kg and took a shortcut down to 90.

I'd recommend you do a strict low carb diet with significant protein , as it stops you feeling hungry whilst you lose. The thinner you are the harder it is to lose weight, so if you message me once you've reached 100kg or so, I'll tell you what can quickly get you down to 80kg.

(05-07-2017 04:59 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Have you talked to a doctor about all your options? That would be worth an appointment. Try to find one that specialises in this sort of thing. Talking to a good therapist might be even more beneficial still, but obviously money can be an issue for some people.

Maybe that'll be difficult with the language barrier in Japan

[Ben]

Something practical you can start doing is taking two tablespoons of apple cider vinegar first thing in the morning. ACV with the mother at the bottom. You can buy Braggs on Amazon.

ACV helps with weightloss. And other things. thread-7518....er+vinegar

[sterling_archer]

I recommend tracking EVERY INTAKE with my fitness pal. This is app that has helped me immensely in my muscle gain/fat loss path.

[Belgrano]

I'm not an expert on this, all I can offer is some common sense.

Quote:

but now my depression and weight are so intertwined I don't know where one ends and the other begins.

Understandable.
But, going back to the beginning, most likely you are not fat because you are depressed, you are depressed because you are fat.

Your obesity makes you shun social interaction, which leads to your mental system subconsciously recognizing that you are on the lowest level of the dominance hierarchy. This means that the environmental input and data your body receives suggests that you are not fit for competition (any competition!), and to increase your chances of survival, it's "best" for you to be a passive, anxious recluse. Your body then acts accordingly (a lot of biochemistry is involved, so you don't get a say in this) and adjusts to this. Unfortunately we are modern humans, and this archaic program is not helpful anymore.
So what can you do? Fight it.

Force yourself to be more social. Go out and talk to people, find a hobby, a common interest. Your animal programming is not that intelligent, what matters is your frame of reference. You are currently not fit for the big league competition that is life, so start small and work your way up.

It can be anything, really. Maybe a board game club? A gardening group, photography enthusiasts that meet regularly? Volunteering for an NGO?
Find a niche!
Anything were you can have positive interactions with real people in real life (not on the internet!) and your starting weight doesn't play much of a role. Be open, nice and polite and you'll see that they will try to be helpful, encourage you and after a while treat you as a respected member of their group who has some value in this specific niche. You will gain a status greater than 0 among your peers.
You will no longer be at the bottom of the social ladder in every aspect of your life. This is very important.

Depending on your skill or expertise, which you will gain over time as you listen and learn, you can rise up and within this niche "competition" prove yourself a worthy member of the group. Your body will adjust to your newfound status. And if you choose the right thing, according to your interests, it will be fun too!
Once you have found something that provides you with some sense of accomplishment, branch out onto the next thing and repeat. Step by step. It's a potentially long process, but it's worth it.

The more "competitions" you are active in and successfully "compete" in, the more your body will understand that you are not a total loser for whom competition is dangerous so it has to make you stay away from it for your own protection, but that you are actually able to go out there and compete, in something, that's all that matters. It will adjust your biochemistry accordingly.

The next thing is that you don't experience the joy of your body being flooded with endorphins after physical exercise. A natural antidepressant.
You already know the answer to that one, it's simple. Get moving. Hiking, swimming, weightlifting, whatever you feel comfortable with. As mentioned above, if it's something you can do in a group, even better.
(Is Nordic Walking still a thing?)
Get that social interaction and peer pressure to motivate you and prevent you from giving up. At the beginning, you won't always find the willpower on your own. Other people can help you to stay focused.
It doesn't matter what you do, just get that regular exercise.

Last but not least, overeating and your shit diet.
You said you already had success in the past with changing your diet. Do that again, after all it worked.
Here's a sentence to remember: If you don't buy it, you can't eat it.
In the supermarket, eyeing those potato chips, that chocolate bar? Don't buy it. If you buy it, you will eat it at some point. That's how it is.
You are at home, hungry, and all you have is fruits, veggies and some chicken or fish? Guess what, that's what you are going to eat.
Your kitchen is full of junk foods, sugar loaded drinks and other shit. That's what you are going to eat, naturally.

You have to make some changes to your available food supply. Then the rest is easy. Don't give yourself any other options.

Eating out is the next problem. A snack on the way, some junk food restaurant that you can't resist. There's a lot of temptation out there. You most likely don't have the willpower to resist for now. Solution: Don't carry any money, cash or credit card, on you when you are out and about. A bit radical, perhaps, but what do you need it for anyway? Public transport? I'm sure there's some kind of card for that, otherwise take exactly what you need and not a cent more in your wallet. Lunch at work? Prepare it at home.

These should be your two mantras.
You are doing your grocery shopping in the supermarket:
If you don't buy it, you can't eat it. Hammer that into your brain.
Every time you are about to grab some shit food, say it to yourself.

You are out and about, doing whatever:
You can't eat it if you can't buy it. Restrict your money supply. It's the only way to be sure.

Drinks.
You are probably consuming a ton of calories through soft drinks. From now on, it's only water and tea. You are in Japan for god's sake, develop a taste for tea. No sugar, of course. (There's a lot of tea culture in Japan as well, here's your chance for another hobby.) Buy some gear to prepare tea and get some bottles to carry a liter or two around at all times. Shouldn't be too hard in Japan.
Water and tea. No exceptions.
Except of course, if you want to start juicing. Great way to increase your vegetable and fruit intake massively, and also to keep your stomach full. If you can afford it, do it.

Another food related thing is that your gut bacteria are very likely totally fucked up. This influences your digestion and can also make you depressive. True story, read up on it.
There's ways to change the composition of the bacteria making up your gut flora in modern medicine, but that's probably a bit of an overkill for now. For what it's worth, I heard about cases of depression being cured in a very short time frame with fecal microbiota transplants/bacteriotherapy. Yes, it is exactly what it sounds like.
For now, just change to a healthy diet and include some healthy, naturally fermented food. Kimchi comes to mind and might be available in Japan, but if not I'm sure there's more available in your region. Do some research.

That's all I can think of for now, the most important things is that you start making an effort! Tons of people in your situation have done it before, so there is nothing that stops you.
Start now, you can do it!

[travolta]

you should take dance classes. People are going to laugh at you because you're in Japan and morbidly obese, but at the same time they'll respect that you're trying. You'll learn a new skill (dancing), and it's good exercise too. I've never had to lose a ton of weight, but I dance as a way to get lean and it's extremely fun too.

[realologist]

You shouldn't be doing any intense exercises yet. If I were you I would pick up walking. Walk an hour a day. That will melt off more fat than you know. Once your lose 50+ lbs then start with more intense exercises like weightlifting, running, etx.

No need to touch on the diet stuff as has been covered by other posters.

[Nascimento]

Should help: https://www.dangerandplay.com/2014/03/11...ounds-fat/

In case you didn't know, the author of that post is MikeCF, a well-regarded member of the forum.

[puckerman]

Stop beating yourself over it. That doesn't do you or anyone else any good. I say this as a man who does it all the time.

Here are a few good ways to start:
Cut out the carbohydrates. This is mainly grains and anything connected to them.
Cut out almost all drinks but water. If you crave something else, try teas or coconut water. You want a low-cal drink. Observe that I didn't suggest any of the diet garbage from Coke or Pepsi.
Pick a time of day at which you stop taking in calories. I would recommend six or eight hours before your bed time. Don't take in any calories until the next morning.
Get your friends on board. Tell your friends what you are doing. If you are out with them and they see you go for the chips, they may remind you of your goals.

[etwsake]

Thanks to everyone for all the replies.

It's a lot to think about and a lot of really great advice. I've already done some of it and that's how I lost the weight the first time around. I just need to find that drive and discipline that I had before so I can do it again.

I'm going to read and re-read all the advice and implement as much of it as I can, immediately.

[Hell_Is_Like_Newark]

Have a full blood panel done, checking hormones, vitamin levels (D especially), etc. I know of several people who had severe issues with weight and depression. Both cases turned out to be their thyroid glands weren't functioning properly. This was easily fixed with medication (which isn't expensive).

I had an issue with weight gain and depression as well (mild depression). I addressed the issue with a diet change and supplements. Down 30 lbs of fat so far (20 more to go).

[Comte De St. Germain]

Eat good, well prepared food. The first to any kind of weight loss is finding food that is both healthy for you and that you find delicious.

For me I love almonds and cashews. And if I'm ever really hungry I just snack on those until I can get a properly cooked meal in me.

My food growing up was also fairly Mediterranean and although I'm not sure if all of it was good for me but the vast majority was considering my health and weight.

[Dantes]

Ask and you shall receive. There is no dearth of information on this topic on this Board or on the internet. The only thing holding you back is desire and discipline. Hopefully your request for help is the first step in developing self reliance and ownership over your struggles.

Good luck and keep us posted. Use this thread to keep yourself accountable. Don't let the advice you receive here go in vain.

[cascadecombo]

I haven't been in your exact shoes, but when I first got to Japan I put on a good deal of weight despite how others usually drop theirs.
That was due to a few things but it's neither here nor there.

I want to know what you actually do. Are your days spent sitting inside eating baum cakes and moon pies you bought from the super down the street while streaming Netflix in your room?

While people say six pack and are made in the kitchen, a healthy lifestyle keeps the pounds off as you say you have. Sitting around inside only invited more opportunities to over eat.

You have self control issues so you need to start forcing yourself to make the right choices. To the day I still have to force myself to refrain from cleaning out the sweets aisles when I go to the super.

Start staying outside, go out for a walk, stay away from your room and try to find activities you like. For me I liked martial arts so I'd spend my night in the gym. training, sparring, lifting, cycling bike or just talking with the dudes. those sorts of places also make you want to stay fit.

If your control is really hard, make a deal with a friend. give him a man of yen and tell him not to give it back at the end if the month unless you lost like 3 to 5 lbs. then repeat it next month for a few months until that becomes a habit.

Don't shop when hungry of course.

Most importantly don't talk about losing weight, unless it's with a friend like what I mentioned before, people who talk about stuff like that rarely ever do it.

Lastly, where in Japan do you live?

[ScrapperTL]

You are addicted to food, like a person can get hooked on heroin, cocaine, gambling, porn, sex, cigarettes, masturbation, crack, meth, etc...
Realizing you are an addict is the first step to fixing your problem.

The main reason you are susceptible to an addiction is because you lack basic Willpower and Discipline.
These two traits define a man with a lean, powerful, strong, masculine physique.
Below Average and Average Genetic Persons, do not get Herculean Bodies without Great Willpower and Discipline.

Willpower and Discipline are not just traits you are born with, but a skill you can increase.

Start small, every single morning when you first wake simply Jog in place for 5 minutes.
Every week add 30 seconds until you are Jogging in place for 15 minutes every morning 7 days a week.
Example:
First week: 5 minutes
10th week: 10 minutes (2.5 month mark)
20th week: 15 minutes (5 month mark)

Forcing yourself to do something slightly uncomfortable every single day - this will build your Willpower and Discipline.

On the matter of addiction to food, you should consider Intermittent Fasting.
Eat all of your daily calories in an 8 hour window, have whatever you want and however much you want.
Then eat nothing for 16 hours.
Every single day do this until you have absolutely mastered it and integrated it into your lifestyle.
Once you have conquered the basic Intermittent Fasting, start making healthier food choices and restricting calories.

Willpower + Discipline + Intermittent Fasting = Herculean Masculine Physique for any man of damn near any genetic birthing.

[MMX2010]

The RVF member, Bear Hands, has lost a significant amount of weight. You should PM him.

[debeguiled]

(05-07-2017 09:43 AM)etwsake Wrote:  

Thanks to everyone for all the replies.

It's a lot to think about and a lot of really great advice. I've already done some of it and that's how I lost the weight the first time around. I just need to find that drive and discipline that I had before so I can do it again.

I'm going to read and re-read all the advice and implement as much of it as I can, immediately.

I don't know if this will work for you or not, but my eating habits, which I couldn't change for the life of me, didn't turn into something I could control until I found a good therapist (male, which is helpful if he is a good one.) and went to him for about a year.

You speak about drive and discipline, and sometimes that is definitely the issue, but sometimes there are just deeper issues that need to be addressed, and once they are, the eating issue just disappears on its own, as in my case.

I always envied people who could go all day forgetting to eat, or get so involved in a project that the forgot to eat, or people who could get into intermittent fasting, because I knew that wasn't me. I always ate, always remembered to eat, and often eat things that gave me instant gratification.

I felt like you too, that there was some fundamental value missing in me, like drive or discipline that was either simply missing, or lacking, and if I just beat myself up more, and shamed myself into trying harder, the problem would be solved.

Not to go into too many details, but my therapist explored all other areas in my life, and asked me a bunch of questions, and really got me thinking about what I needed from people and situations, and guess what, I didn't even know.

I was trying so hard to fulfill what I thought was expected of me, that I couldn't even tell you what I expected of other people. If you asked me what color I wanted to paint my own bedroom, I probably wouldn't even have a preference to tell you.

So, my therapist got me on a program of assertiveness training, (I know, I know, it seemed like a bunch of psychobabble to me at the time too) and he very practically and concretely mapped out what I could ask for and expect from other people, and why sometimes you can't just let the little shit go, you have to speak up for yourself, whether it means telling a cashier in a store not to talk to you in that tone of voice or even asking to see a manager, and ditto with family member or even some stranger trying to bum a smoke on the street.

What I found was that I was so committed to being a decent person, and not making a big deal over the little stuff in life, that people were walking all over me, and it took about a year, and it was awesome to have a non judgmental, ex military dude who was a therapist now , listen to what my life was like, offer supportive comments and insights, and help me work towards having the social skills I needed to get things done in my life.

He and I never spoke about comfort eating or over eating at all. The funny thing though was, as my skills grew in dealing with all the social situations of life, I found that my need to turn to food just disappeared on its own, because it was actually response to the more spiritual problem of loving other people way more than I loved myself.

I know all too well your feelings of shame, and impulse to isolate yourself. In a way it makes sense when a man feels he hasn't lived up to his ideals, to want to hide, it's the most natural thing in the world. It is also a common masculine trait to never ask for help, but to take the responsibility on yourself to fix yourself.

So, my two cents would be, at least consider therapy, and consider it for its own sake, and not just for solving the problem of overeating. Also, make sure you find a good therapist, and if you get weird feelings from one on the first meeting, next them like you would next a borderline girl, and keep looking.

Obviously, there are no guarantees that your situation is similar to mine, but the possibility is still there.

I give you credit for being honest and starting this thread, that takes guts, being honest, and I have seen men on this forum respond to honest requests for help with patience and decency, so you are already helping yourself, even if it doesn't feel like it.

A final observation. Almost everyone in this world does some sort of self medicating of one form or another, it is just that not all sorts of self medicating show themselves visibly on your body. Unfortunately for you, yours does, when you eat you get fat.

There are people out there who self medicate by being narcissistic, or passive aggressive, or secretly cruel, and they are, I suppose lucky there are no physical repercussions from their behavior. Imagine if a guy who masturbated too much suddenly found that his head took on the appearance of a big dick, and everyone would know what his dirty secret was just by looking at him.

He would be up fap creek.

Anyway, my point is, there may be some benefits from coming at this thing sideways instead of head on. I know because that is what happened to me. By addressing the personal and emotional issues, it seemed like the physical manifestations of my distress kind of fell away, little by little, and the same might be true for you if you choose to go down that road.

Just make sure you find a therapist that is truly in your corner though, that is the key.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

[etwsake]

I am sincerely grateful to all of you guys already. I want to address all of your responses in depth, but it's 2AM here and I should attempt to sleep.

Insomnia is another factor in my depression and weight problems.

I think I'm going to have to find a good English speaking therapist in Tokyo cause I'm sure all of these things are related and I can't fix my body without fixing my mind too.

I always thought this stuff would just work itself out as I got older but now I'm almost 40 and I can't believe I feel as screwed up as ever. I hope it's not too late to solve these problems.

Thanks again gentlemen.