[Leonard D Neubache]

I think one of the best way's to stop gamma tendencies is to realise that 99 percent of all harm people cause you is entirely by your own choosing.

Gammas are locked in a perpetual struggle with the behaviours of people over which they have no control but who they are determined to "teach a lesson to". The comings and goings of the people of the world are like the ebb and flow of the tides, yet the gamma is persistently there on the shore-line with a bucket determined to enforce what he perceives to be the proper order of the universe.

Once you accept that the world and the people in it are perfectly capable of existing without your input then gamma tendencies tend to simply melt away. You find joy in many more things because you realise that just as you are incapable of enslaving others to your ego, so too are they incapable of enslaving you to theirs.

[Fortis]

^ Accountability did more for my manhood than just about everything else. I cut all the safety nets, packed my bags and went out on my own. I still have a ton to learn but nothing will make you stop being gamma than having to fend for yourself.

Sink or swim.

[Leonard D Neubache]

Well no sooner had this thread been opened when I ran into a gamma of some acquaintance who struck up a conversation.

Both he and his wife think they're God's gift to the district and yet struggle to understand why they've never gotten political traction in the region despite their best efforts. When I first met him he said something I have since learned to take as the most dire of warning signs.

"I've never really gotten on with the people around here".

We broke contact with his family (as loosely as it could be described) because their only child was a hyperactive sociopath. Traits which they acknowledged but took no personal responsibility for. We didn't want our son around theirs and told them as much. Ooh boy. The impotent hate that swelled in his eyes that day...

Anyhow, the conversation quickly turned to how he was planning to come see us. See, after his wife utterly failed to get elected to state government then utterly failed to get elected to local government she was now looking to get on the local high-school council. They, of course, are desperately trying to save the world from all of the filthy idiots who aren't as enlightened as themselves. I didn't ask, but I suspect the number of genders was at the top of her list of things to address. But there was a problem.

"We're having trouble finding someone to second her application and we were wondering if you or (wife) would sign for her."

Generally being non-confrontational when I stand to gain nothing, I tried to let him down easy with generic platitudes about not getting involved with politics but he persisted that "it was just the high-school council", refusing to take a polite no as an answer. I might note that in typical gamma form he hadn't deigned to get out of his car and talk to me man to man. I was standing and he was parked on his ass. Respect, right?

So I decide "fuck it, it's not like we're best friends" and I gave him the truth. I told him. "The truth is, I don't really truck with your politics. I like things around here the way they are."

That got him upset. "Yeah, but it's just the High School council."

I told him. "Before that it was state, then it was local, and now it's the High School council. The bottom line is that she wouldn't be running for these positions if she didn't want to change something, and if I sign for her then I'm telling the locals that I support that, which I don't."

At first I thought he was going to open up on me but then I remembered. Gammas are cowards. So he shrugged his shoulders, put on his sourest face and said "I'm sorry to hear that" in as much to say "I'm sorry that you've revealed yourself to be just another stupid dirt person".

But I tell you lads, I walked away on cloud nine. I'll most likely run into him again and also most likely have to make polite banter. But he'll never mistake me as someone too chickenshit to stand up to his sad little ego trips. Neither his nor his wife's.

[Matt Forney]

Figured I'd share my favorite story of gamma male perfidy, both because it fundamentally turned my worldview on its head and because it gives some insight into the kinds of women who end up with gamma males (the ones who can get laid, anyway).

I'll preface this by saying that a lot of information about this particular gamma male comes from a girl he was dating (and who I basically stole from him). She's deeply mentally ill and vindictive, so some of it might be exaggerated or outright made up, but all of what she told me lines up with the gamma stereotype and what everyone else is sharing here. (The Chicago Tribe can vouch for this story, most of them have met this girl.)

Three years ago, just prior to my trip to the Philippines, I was visiting Chicago for a few days when a female reader of mine (I'll just call her "K.") invited me to meet her, her boyfriend, and another male reader of mine for dinner one day. I accepted and met them all at K.'s apartment, the day before I was due to ship out.

K. was super happy to meet me in person for the first time and seemed a little nervous: she was constantly doting on me with drinks and sat next to me on the couch when she wasn't retrieving beers from the fridge. Her boyfriend (I'll simply call him the Cuck) was superficially friendly but was weirdly distant the whole night, barely participating in our conversation and staring into space most of the time. He was attractive in a very effeminate way; pale skin, androgynous face, skinnyfat. Think David Bowie with all the testosterone sucked out.

After we all went out to dinner and came back, the Cuck went to bed early, claiming he had to get up for work. The other guy also had to go home to his family. K. didn't want to go to bed though, so she invited me out to a bar for more drinks. Within ten minutes of us sitting down, she was spilling deeply intimate and disturbing details about her personal life, flirting with me and touching me on the hand and shoulder. She also paid for all the drinks.

The bar closed up at 11pm (we were there for about two hours), and we went back to K.'s apartment (I'd left my coat there). She was drunk and stumbling around on heels on the way out, so I instinctively grabbed her hand to make sure she didn't fall.

"That's reaaallly sweet," she slurred.

"Don't read anything into this," I barked. "I'm just trying to make sure you don't smash your teeth out on the sidewalk. Indulge me."

"No, that's reaaallly sweet," she repeated.

We walked back to her place and when we got to the front door, K. suddenly turned to me.

"Matt, I have a confession to make," she said. "I... want... you..."

I can't remember if she finished her sentence, but I do remember immediately kissing her. Then I caught myself and pulled back.

"K., are you nuts?" I hissed. "The Cuck is sleeping right there!"

K. ignored me and silently unlocked the front door, putting her finger to her lips in a shush motion. I followed her in, hissing at her to back down or apologize. She went into the bathroom and gave me a come-hither gesture, so I followed her in and shut the door.

While K. was taking a piss, I kept pleading/lecturing/asking her under my breath what the hell she was doing. She didn't say anything, but gazed up at me with this bizarre look of lust and contempt on her face. The message was dead obvious: "Why don't you just shut up and fuck me already?"

Don't ask me why I didn't just get my coat and leave. I was drunk.

When she was finished, I whisked her into the living room (their apartment was tiny: a living room, a dining room/kitchen/bedroom, and the bathroom) and laid her out on the futon. I pulled her skirt and panties off while whispering to her to get her shirt off; she complied. I undid my belt and felt around for her pussy (it was pitch black in the room), shoved my middle finger in and finger-banged her for thirty seconds. After re-adjusting her body so I could comfortably fuck her, I whipped it out and started slowly pushing in, playing just the tip...

A light suddenly turned on behind me. I wheeled around. It was the Cuck.

Oh shit.

"I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry!" I panicked and pulled my pants up, assuming he was going to rearrange my face with the nearest blunt object. "I didn't mean to!"

"It was her fault!" I pointed to K., lying naked on the futon. She didn't say anything. "It was her idea! She put me up to it!"

"Just get the fuck out," the Cuck says. There was no emotion in his voice.

"Sure, sure! I'm going! I won't bother you again!" I quickly put my shoes on (forgetting my socks), grab my coat and hobble towards the exit. I couldn't figure out how to undo the five some-odd locks they have on their front door, so the Cuck had to unlock them for me. I sped down the stairs (as fast as you can speed with no socks and your shoes only half-on), into the metro station (fortunately, they lived a block away from the Green Line) and back to the city.

I didn't hear from K. again until the next morning, at which point I was already in Los Angeles, waiting on a connecting flight to Tokyo. She told me that she blacked out what happened the night before and that I shouldn't worry about it, whatever it was. I didn't believe her---for God's sake, her boyfriend walked in on me fucking her!---but I also realized that I wasn't going to see her again for a long time if ever, so I let it slide.

Fast forward three months later. I had to swing by Chicago on my return from the Philippines to talk about a business deal with a friend of mine. I message K. and tell her I want to meet up while I'm there. She agrees. I figure I'll get laid again at bare minimum, or at least figure out what's going on (I had minimal contact with K. while I was in Asia, and she'd remained outwardly supportive of me and my work).

I met K. the day before Columbus Day and we go to my favorite bar in the city for drinks. While we're taking the metro into Chicago (she'd lost her wallet the day before, so I offered to buy her a new train pass and pay for her drinks since I wasn't about to let her get away), she drops this whopper on me:

"Oh by the way, the Cuck doesn't like you, because according to him---and I don't believe him---you jacked off in the sink when you were here over the summer."

"What?" I couldn't believe it.

"Yeah. In fact, I'm not even supposed to hang out with you. I told him that I was going out to look for my wallet."

In other words, this guy walked in on me about to rail the shit out of his girlfriend, she blacked it out, and he was too much of a coward to confront her about it.

I didn't fully believe K. for obvious reasons, so when we got to the bar, I started trying to probe her for weaknesses and figure out what she was playing. After beer number six I lost composure and started yelling at her, telling her that we had sex that night and demanding to know what she was trying to pull. She freaked out, asserted that she was "not a cheater," and then started screaming that she "raped" me. I pulled her out of the bar and back to my apartment because I didn't want her to cause a scene.

Back at my place, I recounted the whole story, cross-examining K. like she was on the witness stand, assuming she'd either deny everything or blame me. To my surprise, not only did she profusely apologize, she admitted she had a "crush" on me, but she was afraid to act on it because I was massively out of her league (she was cute, but I can and have done better). We ended up having sex again and she stayed the night.

The next morning, I take K. back home. She's a total wreck, claiming she was a "shitty person" for cheating on the Cuck, saying that she loves him, that she wants him to propose to her but he never will because he knows how "shitty" she is, claiming she "hurt" me, and wishing she'd never been born. At one point, she tells me that me killing her would be less painful than facing him. I drop her off at her stop, say goodbye, and head back to the city.

Coincidentally, this was the same day that Return of Kings published my mega-viral article "[url= http://www.returnofkings.com/45334/5-rea...e-broken]5 Reasons Why Girls with Tattoos and Piercings Are Broken[/url]." This will become relevant later.

A few days later, I'm back in New York when I notice a bunch of comments on my blog from a guy claiming that I "raped" his "friend" and that he'll kick my ass if I come back to Chicago. I look up the guy's IP address: it leads right back to K.'s town.

I immediately text her demanding an explanation. She freaks out and claims she doesn't know what's going on. I ask her what she told the Cuck about what she was doing the night she stayed at my place. She says she didn't tell him anything because she "didn't want to drag the two of you into it." I still don't know what excuse she gave him for disappearing for a whole day and coming back hungover, bleary and missing her sweater and pantyhose, and I frankly don't want to know at this point.

Fast forward six months. After relocating to Chicago, I meet up with K. after half a year of barely talking to her. She tells me that not long after the ROK article went viral, the Cuck started claiming that I had raped her and was pressuring her to go to the police and charge me. When she refused, he had a retard junkie friend of his go around the Internet publicly accusing me of rape in an attempt to get Manboobz or another feminist blogger to turn it into a category five shitstorm, while informing all our mutual friends that I was a rapist in order to get them to pressure her. I didn't fully believe her until I found a text convo between them that confirmed it.

Just before I moved to Chicago, the Cuck had dumped K. in favor of a fat chick. He had apparently been cheating on her from day one of their relationship with fat girls he met off OKCupid, and claimed that he dumped her because of her refusal to charge me with rape, saying she was damaged goods. (The Cuck is also a male feminist. Go figure.)

K. claimed that at the time I met her, the Cuck was refusing to have sex with her at all, and her cheating shattered his perception of himself as a good boyfriend. My ROK article going viral drove it home. The Cuck realized that I'd accomplished far more than him at a younger age---he flunked out of high school because he smoked too much pot, he worked a shitty IT job and subsisted in part off of handouts from his parents, and he actually refused a job promotion because it would have cut into his video game time---and that he couldn't compete with me for K.'s affections.

K. also asserted that the few times the Cuck would fuck her, he was terrible in bed. He would lie on his back and make her do all the work until he was ready to come (which took about ten minutes). I'm not sure if I believe this, but it fits.

Before this all happened to me, I would have raised an eyebrow at the story AnonymousBosch kicked off this thread with. Having lived that kind of story---and having it consume nearly two years of my life---I don't sneer at shit like that anymore.

Gamma males are real, and the damage they can do is spectacular.

Having said all that, I don't feel bad for any woman who ends up in a gamma male's clutches, because they bring it on themselves. Case in point: K. and I are no longer speaking and our relationship flamed out near the end of 2015. A good portion of it was the difference in our respective SMVs: I could do better than her and she knew it, even admitting it at one point. But her mental problems and severe alcoholism also wrecked things.

K. flipped from telling me she was in love with me (and telling her sister I was her "best friend") to hating me and accusing me of being the source of all her problems in the span of a week. After several months of passive-aggressive Facebook posts calling me a "narcissist," she blocked me, claiming that I was "spreading rumors" about her.

Thing is, according to a mutual friend of ours, she's now dating a guy who is almost identical personality-wise to the Cuck. Her new beau tried to instigate a fight with said friend because he had the audacity to text K. about a project they were working on, while K. and her new beau were on vacation. This guy even looks like the Cuck, right down to the androgynous soy face and left-wing politics. K.'s boyfriend prior to the Cuck also fit the gamma male archetype (and also amusingly left her for a fat chick with huge tits).

My working theory is that there's a specific type of woman who's initially attracted to gamma males and narcissists because they want to "fix" them or otherwise help bring out their inner potential. After the reality of the gamma sets in, they realize they fucked up and seek a traditionally masculine man to give them what the gamma can't. Thing is, traditionally masculine men don't need a woman to "fix" them: they can handle their shit by definition. Said men also impose standards on women and don't tolerate their BS.

In my case, I didn't need anything from K., because I already had my life together. Whenever she got drunk, she'd wax regretful about how the Cuck had so much wasted potential; for example, she claimed he was a good musician, but he never once tried to book a show or compose an album. In the same breath, she'd praise me for being able to make a living as a writer at my young age and tell me that I was going to be a great novelist some day.

When this type of woman realizes that the masculine man doesn't need her to help get his life in order, she gradually withdraws from him and back towards the gamma male, who she can manipulate... at least until his unattractiveness sets in and the cycle begins all over again.

In K.'s case, she yo-yoed from having so much contempt for the Cuck that she wanted to sleep with me ten feet away from his bed (and after we'd known each other for maybe seven hours) to pushing me away because I was a "narcissist." Now she's shacked up with another gamma male who will end up burning her in the same fashion.

Thoughts?

As an aside, I recently recorded a subscription-only podcast with Davis Aurini, Daniel Friberg and Melissa Mészáros discussing gamma male psychology, our encounters with gamma males and how they tried to ruin our lives, and how to deal with them. You can get the episode for $0.99 below:

http://mattforneybooks.com/matt-forney-after-hours/
http://mattforney.com/matt-forney-show-episode-139/
https://www.patreon.com/mattforney

If you've got a blog/website, I'll give you a free copy if you're willing to review the podcast (you can make money through my affiliate program for each episode sold).

[The Catalyst]

(03-26-2017 07:12 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Well no sooner had this thread been opened when I ran into a gamma of some acquaintance who struck up a conversation.

Both he and his wife think they're God's gift to the district and yet struggle to understand why they've never gotten political traction in the region despite their best efforts. When I first met him he said something I have since learned to take as the most dire of warning signs.

"I've never really gotten on with the people around here".

Oh wow. That really speaks to me. I really feel I don't get along with Kiwis(I live in NZ) because of how boring they are to me. But I wonder how much is legitimate and how much is gamma rationalising. It's going to be so hard to know for certain I assume...

[Rigsby]

Not really sure what a 'Gamma' is, but I think I get the picture.

Someone who is weak, but has a strong sense of self-worth.
Someone who is vindictive towards others that show up that weakness.
Someone that will be passive-aggressive to the point of being a woman.
Someone that will fester a grudge, wait like a Lion in the long grass, and pounce.
But I repeat myself.

I've probably been beta many times in my life. Hell, I am a beta, who am I trying to kid? But I've never been a snarky back-stabber. I've always had this personal moral: if I can't look you in the eyes when I am fucking you, then it means nothing to me. I think a Gamma would let out a Mmwwwahhha and a little 'little do they know'. Never been that guy. But I've been beta beyond belief. But if one of the main qualities of a Gamma is disloyalty and disproportionate retribution for perceived slights. Nope, never been a Gamma.

Even Alphas can be Gammas sometimes though. I shared housing with an Alpha - it was his place. I respected him, hell, I even liked the fella. I was very good to his family and he had no reason to hate me at all. Until... I fucked a woman he had his eye on. Never mind that I had had a multi-year dry spell, was ostracized in the village and had little social contact, no. It actually came to blows with him throating me up against a wall threatening to murder me. Very alpha I must say.

Things got awkward, until one day, I just thought fuck it and fought back. I'd got to the end of my fuse. I can take a massive amount of shit off people, and they sometimes mistake that for weakness. He never bothered me again, and actually started being nice. But very Gamma behaviour from an Alpha, using his position of power over me. Maybe he wasn't an Alpha in the classical sense, but in the fact I acquiesced to him because it was his house, well, that should have been enough for him. He lost it when the little blond haired blue eyed beauty started crying out in ecstasy at my far-advanced and superior love making skills. I call that Gamma. So you didn't get the lay. No one rubbed your nose in anything. Fucking deal with it. And don't be a fucking bully just because you are meaner and stronger.

At the other end of the spectrum, this comes to mind: I was having a night out in South London at a club that turned out to be a bit of a biker's haunt. Not many people there. Friends of friends playing in the band. Part of a small crew including some fine girlies propping up the bar. Had a bikey come up to my face, 3 inches away, stand motionless and stare in to my eyes. Here we fucking go...

I just stared back, resisting the urge to offer to buy him a pint ;-). His face broke in to a smile, he had made his introduction and had got his in. He wouldn't have done it to a mean looking motherfucker. But then again, I'm not a mean looking motherfucker. He had a couple of mates with him. We ended up having a few drinks and a good old chat. Fuck, I even stole his beer and drank it when he went for a piss. This is in the toilets. The look on his drunken face when he got out from the cubicles? Where's my beer, I could swear I put that down on the sink. Ah, got him! Was that Gamma of me? I don't know.

Some people, you don't want to steal their drink, just in case, but fuck it, we were having FUN. I said, don't worry mate, I'll buy you a beer, let's catch the bar. He was happy with that. Good times.

Fast forward to the end of the night and time to go home. Said our goodbyes. Hopped in the band's van and ready to roll, when we realise that one of our cohorts is missing. He was still in the club. Then we saw him come out. Followed by the bikers...

Oh no! Panic stations. NOT those mean nasty bikers! The van accelerated. Never mind him. It was every man for himself. The sight of the bikers had put these pussy goth rockers in to full fight or flight mode, and they most certainly weren't going to stay and fight! Wankers. Started driving off without one of their best mates, leaving him to the roaming pack of bikers looking for a party and wanting a piece of all the rubber-clad bitches done up like Darrel Hannah in Bladerunner.

Oi, I said. Hold your horses. There's one of our own (I had only met these people a couple of days earlier but they were all longish-term friends). There he is. Stop the fucking van. They didn't want to. They would have drove off and left him. Fuckers. I had to deal with the bikers. Where you going? Are you having a party? Can we come? Why not? Don't you like us? Kind of thing. You know. Matey got in the van, a look of relief on his face, not being subjected to the biker hordes. Then we went to the after party.

Now, that was Gamma! To leave one of your mates get ripped to shreds because of your own cowardice. And the funny thing is, as illustrated by my earlier point of nicking one of the biker's drinks when he was pissing - they weren't that bad. They were just having a bit of fun. And even though I was the beta that night, I wouldn't have left a man behind. He wasn't even my friend.

Went to the party. Lots of young boys parading around in stockings and suspenders, black make-up - typical goths. Band was crap anyway. I held court for a bit, with the good will of being the one that saved one of their own from the big bad bikies. Yeah, right. I just got pissed as usual, woke up with a rotter of a hangover and asked that question I always asked waking up in strange places: where is the nearest tube?

My point is not so much that they were outgunned our outmatched, because they weren't, but they thought they were. Such a mis-match of cultures. If they had been the real bad bikies I would have been screaming: Do not stop! Accelerate!! Run them over! We need to get out of here! Every man for himself! but they weren't.

Do not trust people like that. And that is why I just got drunk that night at the after party - I was a bit too old for the young lasses anyway and they didn't need an old bugger like me chatting them up. How can you enjoy the company of people like that? Cowards to a man. Seems to be a British trait. Gammas.

...

But by the Bosch metric of how many women you fucked, well I guess I am an Alpha then (100), but that was more down to being in the right place at the right time with the right haircut. I'm a beta, less so these days as I get older and meaner. But I'm happy to acquiesce to those of superior muscle power, and especially intelligence. And the true Alphas seem to appreciate that. They don't want some back-biting simp waiting in lay to take you out at your low point. Like a Gamma would. So I think it is an important distinction.

Damn, it's been a long time since there was a good Alpha/Beta thread around here. We are evolving. Alpha/Beta/Gamma. The discussion is moving forward.

And to those that self-diagnosed as being Gammas. Maybe don't be too hard on yourselves. A real true Gamma would never recognize that. It's ok to be beta. The Alphas don't mind it and will respect you more for accepting it. But the world has no place for Gammas. They are fucking irredeemable. As I understand it. Feel free to correct.

[Fortis]

Best way to think about gamma is think about all the pettiness of a female brain but with a male form. So all these feminine ways of handling problems but with a male ability for planning and cunning, but no spine.

[DarkTriad]

Great thread, many thanks to AnonymousBosch for starting it. Need some practical advice for dealing with a Gamma that started a Jihad against me a few months ago. I switched to a new martial arts school, great place, great guys...except for this one particular turd in the punch bowl. I accidentally upstaged him at the beginning, and he's been running a passive/aggressive "pretend I don't exist" program against me ever since. I can't just ignore him back because he sometimes runs the jiujitsu class and it interferes with my training. It's primarily a kickboxing based MMA program, they mostly outsource their Brazilian Jiujitsu program to visiting instructors from a local specialized BJJ program, so he (as a purple belt) gets to play "Martial Arts Cult Leader" whenever the real BJJ instructors aren't around. Most of the real athlete/fighter types gravitate towards the boxing/kickboxing/MMA, leaving him with a fertile ground of noobs to worship him. When he does do the MMA class, he "forgets" his gloves (so it's bad form to hit him hard while he continually dives for unsafe ankle locks because he "can't hit back"). I was the new guy, and he seemed popular, so I ignored his disrespect (which was at a level not usually tolerated in a real martial arts program) waiting for him to get over it and start acting normal. I then started to realize he was mainly popular within his sub-cult and all the real fighters despised him. At this point, I would usually just horribly and publicly beat down and punk the guy till he got the picture, but as it happens, I'm WAY bigger and stronger than him, and have been doing martial arts much longer, I would risk looking like a bully/asshole at the new school. The guy is highly intelligent (grad student at super-elite university) and highly manipulative, I have no doubt his victim game is on point, and he's well established. The head BJJ guy is one of my boys from back in the day, but it's kind of a bitch move to ask him to handle it. Any suggestions? Wait till I'm more established, and then confront him on it directly? Or just do the BJJ class and beat him without mercy in front of his cultists every day (at the risk of looking like an asshole and exacerbating the problem)? I don't even mind guys having little "martial arts cults" but you should pay your dues and earn them first, if you're trying to do it as a purple you're asking for trouble anyway.

[SamuelBRoberts]

Lack of paragraphs make this a little hard to follow, but basically, you upstaged an instructor and now he's interfering with your training?

Talk to the head guy and get it straightened out, man. You're a paying customer. No reason you need to be dealing with this bullshit or playing head games.

[Leonard D Neubache]

(03-26-2017 03:11 PM)Matt Forney Wrote:  

...

"Oh by the way, the Cuck doesn't like you, because according to him---and I don't believe him---you jacked off in the sink when you were here over the summer."

"What?" I couldn't believe it.

"Yeah. In fact, I'm not even supposed to hang out with you. I told him that I was going out to look for my wallet."

In other words, this guy walked in on me about to rail the shit out of his girlfriend, she blacked it out, and he was too much of a coward to confront her about it.

I didn't fully believe K. for obvious reasons, so when we got to the bar, I started trying to probe her for weaknesses and figure out what she was playing. After beer number six I lost composure and started yelling at her, telling her that we had sex that night and demanding to know what she was trying to pull. She freaked out, asserted that she was "not a cheater," and then started screaming that she "raped" me. I pulled her out of the bar and back to my apartment because I didn't want her to cause a scene.

Back at my place, I recounted the whole story, cross-examining K. like she was on the witness stand, assuming she'd either deny everything or blame me. To my surprise, not only did she profusely apologize, she admitted she had a "crush" on me, but she was afraid to act on it because I was massively out of her league (she was cute, but I can and have done better).
...

It's off-thread, but this is precisely what I warned about in another thread regarding women claiming to have been "black-out drunk" after a sexual encounter.

(12-28-2016 08:54 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

(12-27-2016 11:09 PM)Mistaketrain Wrote:  

This recently happened to me for the first time ever.
Not rape but a really drunk girl.

I took her home, we were both drunk as skunks. Laying in bed just relaxing, she asked me to take her clothes off cause she was hot. Then she started cuddling, making out, and she grabbed me and started playing, so I started playing with her, she pulled me on top of her..... and so on.

Next day she had zero recollection of what happened. She said all she remembered was sleeping.
Kind of scary.
I mean I was drunk too and she was coordinated enough to walk and talk just fine, I figured it was just some fun drunk sex.

It's kinda creepy to be told that they don't remember it. I don't like that lol.
Makes me wonder how often that happens.

"Zero recollection", is a woman's way of saying "I don't want to approach the situation we created so I'm giving you an out and telling you to take it".

It's a reset switch for your relationship with her, flawed as it is, only in modern day terms it carries the implied threat of legal ramifications if you force the truth on her.

I have been blackout drunk a number of times and although I've forgotten specific details about the previous night, the broad strokes (such as who I fucked) were never something that I simply didn't recall.

Mr Forney here got the confession, but if he'd only "revealed" that sex had occurred without forcing her to admit she remembered it then he would have firmly been in "you raped me" territory.

When a girl tells you "she doesn't remember what happened last night" then she's lying.
It's a social mechanism to hamster away sluttyness and protect her virginal self image.
If you're not willing to force a confession then you better not "remind" her.

[Leonard D Neubache]

(03-26-2017 09:15 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

Lack of paragraphs make this a little hard to follow, but basically, you upstaged an instructor and now he's interfering with your training?

Talk to the head guy and get it straightened out, man. You're a paying customer. No reason you need to be dealing with this bullshit or playing head games.

Or... he could just play head games at the cave-man level.

Give the guy a thousand yard stare right between his eyebrows, like you're looking at his very soul. Do this often and unmistakeably. You don't need to radiate anger or hatred. You just need to remind him quite regularly that you see right through him.

Gammas are cowards and on a subconscious level they fear being revealed. What fucks with them most is when someone "knows" what they're about yet treats them with what I would describe as 'the disregard of the superior'.

Going to the guy's boss will be an issue. Gammas are experts at deflecting blame and conceding only as much ground as they have to before going back to making your life twice as miserable as they were making it before you appealed to a higher authority.

Gammas need a handle for their passive aggressiveness. "He complained about me" is a handle. If you trigger them on a primal, subconscious level that they cannot quantify in words then they will find themselves at a loss. Gammas are driven by an ego coupled with an academic view of the world. What slights they cannot quantify they cannot grapple, and what they cannot grapple they will recoil from.

Gammas have no power over cave men. Mindfuck him on the basest level and you have good odds his ego will get shivers and find other emotional targets to latch on to.

[kinjutsu]

I've been friends with a few gammas in the past. This was well before i there was game forums and red pill etc..

1st guy used to be one of my best friends.
Our mothers went to nursing school together and were pretty close. He was 2 years younger than me.

When i was 17 he started hanging out with these girls that went to his school. One day i went over to his house to grab something he borrowed from me. When i arrived there was 2 girls and Joe in his room listening to music. I hadn't planned on staying but once the girls saw i was the guy Joe was going on and on about they wouldn't let me leave.
At the time i didn't know that Joe had a crush on one of the girls. Let's call her girl A.
They wanted to drink that night and told them i had booze at my house and i looked old enough to be able to buy some from a place near my house if needed. But i didn't really wanna walk all the way to my house (20 min) by myself because i'd just stay home. Girl A volunteered to walk with me. At this point girl B wanted to come as well (i guess they though i was interesting or "cool") I made up some story about my mom freaking out if i brought a girl home and 2 would get me in tons of trouble (I knew my mom was working and wouldn't be home till 7am the next day). Plus i didn't want to leave Joe alone with me stealing 2 girls away from him, he couldn't leave because he had to be home to let his little sister in from dance practice.

Girl A and myself go to my house i pretend to act surprised when nobody is home. I gather the booze i have into my backpack and as i turn around the girl is laying down on my bed with her cleavage hanging out there. She says that we don't have to rush back because Joe's house is kinda boring. I turn on the tv and sit down beside her. I start rubbing her back and next thing you know my pants are undone and she's giving me a bj. Then after a bit i fuck her and we leave. I thought it was kinda strange because i remember Joe telling me that girl A was a virgin saving herself for marriage. I didn't question her about it because she wasn't my friend and i didn't think it was my place.
When we got back Joe and girl B was kinda pissed but they forgot when they got drunk.
We eventually moved out party into the garage when his parents came home. It was a home office that nobody used anymore, it was fully developed as well so it was a decent alternative.

Joe drank a ton that night and he passed out around 10:30pm. There was a big work bench that we put him on so he wasn't sleeping in the middle of the floor.
Around midnight girl A started to pass out as well. Girl B was cuddled up beside me on a love seat couch and said that she was jealous that girl A got to see my house and spend time alone with me. Then we started kissing and soon after i was fucking her. She was making a ton of noise. So much that Joe woke up and was staring at me while i fucked her. I think he was staring the entire time and then when i finished he pretended to go back to sleep while we got dressed.
In the morning, i walked them to the bus stop and they gave me deep hugs and i got their numbers and made plans to drink again.
For the next week Joe avoided talking to me about what happened on Saturday night. We make plans with the girls to chill at his house on Saturday night after going to the mall. At the last moment on saturday he can't come because he has to stay at home again for his sister. We 3 just have a good time without him. They both end up modeling clothes for me in different stores.

When we finally get to his house he's sitting in the dark half drunk playing playstation. I picked up some things for him and he didn't seem to care. He was mad but i didn't think it could've been because of me. Fast forward to us drinking in the garage again and he has to help his mom with something on the computer, girl B goes with him. Girl A cuddles up with me and throws a blanket over us. Next thing i know she's giving me a handjob and is periodically dropping her head under the blanket. Just as i'm about to cum Joe walks back in the garage and sees a head moving up and down. I try to pull her head off my dick but I've already started cumming and she takes the majority of it on her chin and lips.

Joe turns around and leaves the garage while girl B just laughs and comes inside. They find something to clean up her face and girl A goes inside to talk to Joe. Meanwhile girl B is trying to make plans with me during the week.
After girl A comes back they both leave for the night and she tells me his super mad. I go in and talk to him. He's just not wanting to listen to me. I told him he had no right to get pissed off because he never told me he had a crush on either girl. That calmed him down. We hung out that night and played games into the morning.
Over the next few i was seeing both girls multiple times a week. We never did shit at his house or in front of him.
Then all of a sudden neither girl wants anything to do with me. At first i think it's because they found out about me seeing both of them but i realized they probably already knew about each other.

About 3 days later i'm getting yelled at by my mom about things i did like 6 months ago and only Joe would know about because he was there. It took me all of 30s to figure out he snitched me out to his mom and then it made it's way to my mom.
About 2 months later i run into girl A at the mall. I stop her and ask her why she stopped talking to me. She tells me that Joe had told her that i had gotten HIV because i was fucking native hookers downtown (She's 100% serious when saying this to my face). I burst out laughing. She asks me whats so funny. I tell her that last year he went downtown by himself and was going to buy a native hooker to take his virginity but he backed out because he thought he was gonna get HIV from her. She bursts out laughing as well.

We catch up and she tells me she's sorry about ditching me and that she should've asked me about it instead of listening to Joe. Then she tell me that girl B and Joe are together and she doesn't talk to girl B anymore because girl B told everyone at school that girl A had an abortion during the previous year's summer.
Fast forward like 5 years and Joe moves in with girl B and her mom.

[Aurini]

(03-26-2017 09:04 PM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

snip

That sounds like a Gamma; the subtle flourishes are what stand out; his missing gloves.

Much like knife fights, the best way to deal with a Gamma is to never encounter them in the first place. But given that it's already an issue, that's no longer an option. So here's what I'd recommend.

For now? Bide your time. Make friends with the sane/Alpha males of the group. Avoid conflicts with the Gamma - as somebody else on here noted, and as you described in your own post, Gammas are great at getting other men to White Knight for them. Hell, that's their main survival strategy - getting other men to say "Don't pick on him," when he's fucking with you. If all goes well, he'll gradually alienate others, and/or find somebody else to be the target for his vengeance.

That's what you want to happen; for him to become obsessed with somebody else. Be as obsequious as possible.

If you must go to war with him, realize that it's total war. That's the issue with the Gamma - that's why they're so dangerous. So long as they can keep fighting, they will; see the video of the Black Knight earlier in this thread, or look up "Kids in the Hall - Stay Down" on YouTube.

Again: knife fight versus fist fight. In a fist fight, at some point somebody's bell gets rung, and the fight's over. In more civilized times the winner would buy the loser a beer afterwards. A knife fight, on the other hand, doesn't have a winner; just a second-place loser. That's what fighting a Gamma is like. To win, you're going to have to stoop to his level, and become the same sort of dishonourable scumbag that he is. Avoid it at all costs; let him divert his attention onto somebody else. But if it comes down to it, go for the low blow, faster and harder than he does. You must use the same womanly tactics as he does; discredit him as viciously as you possibly can.

Do not pull your punches with a Gamma. Hit them so hard that they never get up again. It'll be an expensive fight - but anything short of nuking them from orbit will do nothing but ensure that the fight goes longer.

[Comte De St. Germain]

It's like always RVF for some reason has a good thread going as it becomes relevant to my life. I met one today.

Another thing that often happens with gammas is that they have certain things that they're gungho about. They'll try to ingratiate themselves with guys whom they think share said passion. Unrelated thing 2 but they also love to talk themselves down but their speech always ends with how they overcame irrespective of those things holding them down.

So why is this all related. The guy was doing both things at the same time when he heard I did a bit of music production. Me and the chick I was flirting with were being unserious in this on the fly group that we formed (due to a string of acquaintances all being in the same place at the same time) but he jumps in when he hears a bit I said about music production. He proceeds to go on a long winded speech about how he overcame which I cut short to subtly call out his little diatribe after which he goes and sulks for a while.

So I guess my universal cure for dealing with these folk is to simply minimize interaction with them. As their modus operandi is:

1. Ingratiate yourself with a person
2. Become involved in their life to a degree
3. Then passively aggressively do shit to improve your own standing by bringing everyone down.


Just nip them in the bud. The bandaid hurts the longer you wait to take it off.

[Aurini]

(03-26-2017 10:23 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 09:15 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

Lack of paragraphs make this a little hard to follow, but basically, you upstaged an instructor and now he's interfering with your training?

Talk to the head guy and get it straightened out, man. You're a paying customer. No reason you need to be dealing with this bullshit or playing head games.

Give the guy a thousand yard stare right between his eyebrows, like you're looking at his very soul. Do this often and unmistakeably. You don't need to radiate anger or hatred. You just need to remind him quite regularly that you see right through him.

...

Gammas need a handle for their passive aggressiveness. "He complained about me" is a handle. If you trigger them on a primal, subconscious level that they cannot quantify in words then they will find themselves at a loss. Gammas are driven by an ego coupled with an academic view of the world. What slights they cannot quantify they cannot grapple, and what they cannot grapple they will recoil from.

Gammas have no power over cave men. Mindfuck him on the basest level and you have good odds his ego will get shivers and find other emotional targets to latch on to.

This is better than my advice. I was thinking in the context of the online world. Offline, the eye-fuck will put most of them in their place. They'll be too busy rationalizing the eye-fuck to continue messing with you.

[DarkTriad]

(03-26-2017 11:11 PM)Aurini Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 10:23 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 09:15 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

Lack of paragraphs make this a little hard to follow, but basically, you upstaged an instructor and now he's interfering with your training?

Talk to the head guy and get it straightened out, man. You're a paying customer. No reason you need to be dealing with this bullshit or playing head games.

Give the guy a thousand yard stare right between his eyebrows, like you're looking at his very soul. Do this often and unmistakeably. You don't need to radiate anger or hatred. You just need to remind him quite regularly that you see right through him.

...

Gammas need a handle for their passive aggressiveness. "He complained about me" is a handle. If you trigger them on a primal, subconscious level that they cannot quantify in words then they will find themselves at a loss. Gammas are driven by an ego coupled with an academic view of the world. What slights they cannot quantify they cannot grapple, and what they cannot grapple they will recoil from.

Gammas have no power over cave men. Mindfuck him on the basest level and you have good odds his ego will get shivers and find other emotional targets to latch on to.

This is better than my advice. I was thinking in the context of the online world. Offline, the eye-fuck will put most of them in their place. They'll be too busy rationalizing the eye-fuck to continue messing with you.

Thanks guys.

Quote:

Talk to the head guy and get it straightened out, man. You're a paying customer. No reason you need to be dealing with this bullshit or playing head games.

Actually, he's the paying customer (who takes over class when the real instructor isn't there). I'm a guy they let train for free because I'm a local legend ex-pro fighter. I'm trying to not f*ck up my free lunch here, while de-toxifying a poisonous environment. Everything about this program is awesome...except this one f***en guy. I was originally planning a more direct confrontation, but after reading all the gamma posts, I'm guessing it won't have the desired effect and he'll find a way to poison the well against me if I call him out.

I could talk to the head BJJ guy (who is an old friend of mine) but I would feel like a bitch (this is shit I should be able to handle on my own) and the guy is really slick and would just try and undercut me with the actual owners (who might terminate my "honored guest" status).

I might just have to bide my time and keep establishing myself there till I have untouchable support. Every day he gets together with his mini cult and trains low percentage moves with women and people weaker and less experienced than himself, and every day I gain respect by sparring and wrestling with the best guys there.

[david.garrett84]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned gay gammas at great length.

They're even worse, as at least with straight male gammas you can see the jealousy/competition angle over girls.

I had the extreme displeasure of attending university with a bonafide gay gamma.

This guy reeked of academic and intellectual insecurity. He studied incredibly hard and was full into those university speaking/debating competitions. Whilst the majority of us just did our own thing in our spare time (coffee with each other, clubs, or films), he was consumed by academic-based co-curricular activities. The only exceptions I could see were some poker nights he went along to.

His grades were not stellar, even if we operated in a curved grading environment. I'm not even sure he was in the honor society with me.

As far as I could tell, he didn't travel, except for academics, whereas I was jetting off to Europe three times a year. He would attack my trips online, calling them uncultured and a waste of time. Pretty much the only thing I knew about his time in his former city was that he was very close to his mother.

Every opportunity he had, it was "David, Greg/John/Tim is smarter than you" or the same thing said to someone else about them.

I remember at one stage he was telling other people behind my back, "Hey, David said you're a leftist extremist who defames people and has no life".

He was the sort of dweeb whose pictures on social media were of him posing with his favorite book.

I remember at the end of our "friendship" he wanted to have a public fight because that's what he said things were "leading to".

[Geomann180]

(03-26-2017 11:11 PM)Aurini Wrote:  

This is better than my advice. I was thinking in the context of the online world. Offline, the eye-fuck will put most of them in their place. They'll be too busy rationalizing the eye-fuck to continue messing with you.

I might phrase it slightly differently, but I agree with the rest of what you say.



G

[Simeon_Strangelight]

Also another thing that I would stress after a previous discussion with AB.

Being a Gamma does not necesserily mean that you have a low Sexual Market Value.

Famous Betas can have a male value of 10 to the female world. Without the fame and wealth it would be instantly a 5, but with those added things, it may be pretty high.

The same goes for Gammas - some of them are extremely intelligent and have excellent jobs. I think it was the Wallstreet Playboys who said that there are a ton of Gammas working at Wallstreet. Due to their wealth and social standing they usually end up with one of the first women who nab them and their lives from then on are fully dictated by the missus. And again - their sexual market value due to money and job is relatively high, some can even be tall and relatively good-looking (were it not for the terrible behavioral patterns that make them unattractive to women).

I know that VoxDay equated the Alpha/Beta/Gamma mindset equally with SMV, but that is in my opinion not the case. Plenty of low Beta famous men out there who get played by women like a fiddle. They get laid easily because their SMV is so fucking high, but then in the LTR they are simps. That is the biggest difference to Alphas/Sigmas.

Gammas are even below lesser Betas in that regard, but can make it work with a woman when their SMV is high enough (or the one of their women is much lower than theirs).

[TheWhiteWolf]

There was just gamma I knew in high school. Short Acnefaced glasses all the stereotypes of your stereotypical nerd. This fucker was probably the most backstabbing little cunt I ever met. We were friends at first mainly because I was shy and lacking many opportunities for friendship. But then things started to change once I got a new computer. This guy got jealous of it in begin thinking of ways to screw me out of it. Well eventually I decided that I didn’t want the computer anymore so I decided to sell it to him. Keep in mind I still thought he was my friend at this time. So we agree on 1000 dollars for the computer. He gives me 200 as a down payment and says he’ll get the rest by the end of the week. So give him the computer in retrospect I was such an idiot at that time for trusting this little snake. A long story short I never got the rest of the money. Another incident I had with this guy was when I began hanging out with a girl he had a crush on. Now we weren’t dating or anything we just happened share a lot of the same interests. I should point out that this girl tatted up slut who was a five at best. So in retaliation he began spreading rumors about me around school. I’ve had to resist the urge to punch this guy bloody. Eventually we graduated and I never saw anything about him again until last year when I look him up on Facebook. Apparently he’s running for the liberal MPP position in my area.

[Leonard D Neubache]

(03-27-2017 12:41 AM)david.garrett84 Wrote:  

...
I remember at the end of our "friendship" he wanted to have a public fight because that's what he said things were "leading to".

Standard Gamma fare. If you'd taken him up on it he would pussy out and claim to be the victim of your barbaric aggression.

His abstinence from throwing hands would of course have been for your benefit, him having no desire to have to seriously hurt you.

And great lengths would he have gone to to make sure this myth was propagated far and wide. He would make a full time job of it, just to make sure the real story never stood a chance.

[Vaun]

(03-27-2017 06:29 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

(03-27-2017 12:41 AM)david.garrett84 Wrote:  

...
I remember at the end of our "friendship" he wanted to have a public fight because that's what he said things were "leading to".

Standard Gamma fare. If you'd taken him up on it he would pussy out and claim to be the victim of your barbaric aggression.

His abstinence from throwing hands would of course have been for your benefit, him having no desire to have to seriously hurt you.

And great lengths would he have gone to to make sure this myth was propagated far and wide. He would make a full time job of it, just to make sure the real story never stood a chance.

Reminds me of getting broken up with by a narcissist. They create an audience, then use that audience against you. "Heather said you are a dick" and "My friends and I both agree on this about you". Its a very common female narcissist trait used to hurt you.

Even more proof that gamma is "bitch behavior". Basically when one acts like a bitch. People call it narcissist, but its more like hyper-bitch.

[Leonard D Neubache]

(03-26-2017 10:30 PM)Aurini Wrote:  

...
Do not pull your punches with a Gamma. Hit them so hard that they never get up again. It'll be an expensive fight - but anything short of nuking them from orbit will do nothing but ensure that the fight goes longer.

+1million on this. Gammas will literally roll on their back and surrender (with self-serving nonsense about how they're "so sorry that they didn't realise how sensitive you were" etc) and then the next day after you show them mercy they'll strike you from behind twice as hard.

My personal experience is that Gammas prefer a sort of social guerrilla warfare where they can avoid open face to face conflict and try to wear you down with hit and run tactics. If things get dire they bury their guns for a month or two and sue for peace. When their strength is back then they dig up the guns and start all over again.

Where they can be defeated is by undertaking the effort to humiliate them publicly. It's not enough to call them out on their bullshit. You have to do it openly and brutally in front of everyone involved. This is the metaphorical burning of the forest to root out the resistance. The gamma survives routine embarrassment by maintaining what amounts to a small following of omega orbiters, or at least omega sympathisers. Where you might embarrass him in front of one, he will bounce to the others with his sob story and rebuild social standing.

Calling him out as publicly as possible, while a revolting task, destroys his ability to bounce to an orbiter or sympathiser. The gamma is revealed to be the subversive and you are revealed to be the one speaking truth to power.

I did this once with a surprising result. The gamma I mentioned earlier that had to one-up me on motorcycles (and everything else money could buy) always felt like he had an ace up his sleeve. He had about 15 kilos on me and was somewhat stocky. His mainstay in all social situations from losing a debate to feeling the need to cockblock me was "well if it ever came to a fight we'd see who the real man was".

I wasn't so sure, and wasn't afraid to find out one way or another, but I knew I'd never win in a wrestling match and I also wasn't willing to bust his face open or shatter a few ribs just to make a point.

Well one day he trod on my last nerve. We were at a large gathering and he was cockblocking me as predictably as the rising of the sun the next day. I told him to buzz off and he said "well it's not like you could make me." Well I must have darkened a bit because suddenly everyone went quiet. I turned to him and said words to the effect of "lets go outside and settle that shit once and for all", and I remember putting a very heavy emphasis on "once and for all".

Well I didn't know this about gammas then but I know it now.

Gammas are cowards.

He silently tucked tail in front of everyone we knew, but here's the interesting thing. He didn't stop wanting to hang out with me. I suppose he had no other real friends and after that scene there were few prospects. And guess what. He became my very own man-bitch. It broke his spirit utterly. He never crossed me again. Never spoke a bad word about me. Never cock blocked me. Never second guessed me. Nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

A year later he was still a shell of a man. When I met my wife to be and stopped chasing tail at social gatherings I more or less left him at the apartment we shared like you'd leave a ghost by leaving the house it haunts.

And yet until I found this forum I never had a way to quantify everything that passed between us. How strange it can be to look back with wiser eyes.

[debeguiled]

Comic Relief for a Heavy Thread. Gamma Magician.

[Vill@in]

Very informative thread. I never was aware of 'gamma' or these type of individuals having a label. And now that I think about it I think my good friend and roommate may be a Gamma.

Last year when I discovered the Red Pill/Manosphere, I would share articles and what not with my roommate (we'll call him Vin, since he is a 6'4, skinner version of Vin Diesel). He is a Psych major so a lot of the stuff made sense to him and he even admitted he was very Beta in his 20's. It was a good bonding experience for us because we shared most of the same ideas and Red Pill principles especially when it comes to women.

Last summer, we were on a Co-Ed Sand Volleyball league and one of the girls on there was one that Vin had fucked the prior year since they worked together. We'll call her Sim. Anyway, Sim and I had never really met but we did flirt big time when we played Volleyball. I don't know if Vin knew or even cared if we were flirting but hey, he's RP so he understands about the fickle nature of women we talked about their hypergamy on many occasions. Not to mention he already fucked her and never said anything as far as liking her more than an occasional bang.

A few weekends before Memorial Day 2016, Sim met us at a bar for some drinks. She had been drinking wine beforehand so when she met with us she was pretty intoxicated. She immediately sits next to me and starts rubbing her hand on my leg and is giving me heavy vibes. Again, Vin either doesn't notice or doesn't care. I think it's the latter as it's pretty obvious. She ends up going back to our apartment but I pass out on the couch and Vin later claims he banged her. Ok, great. No big deal. So a few weeks later we have a Volleyball game the Sunday before Memorial Day and her and I again start flirting. I'm drinking a lot this night as I don't have to work the following day since it's the holiday so my 'fuck it' meter is on high. We pass each other on the way to the restroom and I just grab her and kiss her. She is kissing me back and I definitely am thinking I'm getting the bang that night. So she comes back to our apartment again and immediately starts to lay with me and cuddle with me. At this point I can tell Vin is getting a little annoyed. He goes to take a shower and Sim and I are making out and I'm rubbing her crotch and tits. Vin comes out of the shower and is STANDING behind us....not saying a word. I turn around and asks what he's doing. "I'm just letting my legs dry off" he says. I'm thinking "What the fuck does that mean? Just use a towel?" It was just odd. And very awkward. He is just standing back there watching us. Very creepy. So I just ask Sim if she wants to go back to my room and she agrees.

We go back to my room and I assume Vin goes to bed since he has to work early in the morning. A few minutes later and Sim and I both naked and sex is imminent. I'm having a bit of whiskey dick since I did drink a lot, but I'm on top of her and trying to jam my 70% powered softie/hard-on hybrid in. Then suddenly Vin is at my door and pounding on it. "Sim! Come out here. I just want to talk to you". At this point I'm pissed. I yell back to Vin that we're busy and he can talk to her tomorrow. But he persists. "SIM!! COME OUT HERE AND TALK TO ME!!" I am fucking pissed and confused at the same time. "Doesn't he realize I'm this fucking close to getting laid and he's blowing that all up? What the fuck is he doing?" At this point Sim is uncomfortable and she says she should just go out there and talk to him. I agree and she goes out there and they talk for a few minutes. She comes back and Vin goes to bed but the mood has been killed and whiskey dick isn't helping so it's not happening. I'm also feeling a bit of regret since I had NO idea he liked her, why else would he cock block me like that? It just didn't make sense.

The next morning as Sim and I wake up he is blowing up her phone apologizing and telling her how awesome she is (she is showing me the texts as they are coming in). I'm just in a total state of shock and disappointment. How can my very good friend be acting like such a beta bitch? He KNOWS about Beta behavior...fuck we talk about it all the time. But that's exactly what he is displaying. Any idea of banging Sim now is totally gone. I'm sickened by Vin's behavior but he's my friend and obviously Sim choosing me over him has bothered him. I kiss her goodbye later on in the morning. Vin comes home later that night and it's awkward. I tell him I had NO idea he really cared about Sim and that I never would have made any moves on her if I knew he did. He played it off like she's just a whore and he doesn't really like her. We both kind of drop it at that point.

Sim stopped playing volleyball since the whole situation was weird now. Vin talks to her occasionally over Snapchat but he no longer works with her so he doesn't see her anymore. I have not spoken to her since myself. Vin and I bring it up occasionally now in a joking manner, but it's more in the sense of "You literally cock blocked me at the last minute". And it's not that I'm pissed I didn't get the bang (she is a 6 at best) it's his overall simp behavior which bothered me. He hasn't displayed this type of behavior (Gamma?) since then, but I know it's there lurking. And since we never talk about it I don't even know if he's aware of what he did was so pathetic. Did he hamster it? I dunno. I have heard many other girls that he has hit on say he gives off a 'creepy' vibe.

Did Sim choosing me over him strike such a blow to his ego that he reverted to his natural, Gamma state? I found out later that he lost his virginity when he was 30 years old, which does prove (and he admits) he was pretty beta in his 20's. But like I said, other than that night he displays RP principles and has pretty good day/night game (albeit it can come off as creepy). He has 0 AA when approaching women.