[kosko]

(02-28-2017 04:49 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

All women are going to have a sky high notch count.

So if you want a LTR/marriage etc you are going to have to get over the mental blockage of taking your turn on the puss.

No doubt she has to do the same for your well used cock.

Its not 1864 any more.

We have to stop rewarding bad behaviour.

Somebody pull up the chart that shows that after 3 partners a woman's chance towards divorce shoots up to almost 50%.

Why the hell should I just "settle for this reality" either girls get smart, or men keep staying stupid. We can't have both.

I have accepted the fact that unicorns in North America don't exist but I am still rational about it all. A good girl who was raised in a good home with a father who put the clamp down on here can easily have a notch count below <5 all the way up to 25-30 is she just does LTRs.

So for me if a girl has been with less than 5 for her notch count, and then for me I have 100+ for my notch count who am I to judge? If anything if she knew my real number she would get cold feet likely.

But the whole just accepting the fact that girls are going to fuck a ton is silly. Most girls still don't average more than 3-4 partners a year if they are normal. For most average girls it is two flings that last a few months and then 1 or 2 bad decisions from a ONS or Tinder fling, etc. This idea that the majority of girls hop on pole left and right is misguided but we do no good in just accepting all girls that do.

I will date a girl like OP has described.. maybe.. but I would not even entertain taking it to LTR-- long range status, or even think about locking her down full-time.

[PapayaTapper]

(02-28-2017 02:54 PM)mensch Wrote:  

(02-28-2017 02:20 PM)Mercenary Wrote:  

How many of these guys does she still have contact with ?

Only with her last boyfriend.

Oh, and she's 25 yo.

How old are you?

[TooFineAPoint]

I'll offer a bit of a contrary viewpoint here.

Going from random sex for fun / to cure depression, to long term partner (who was not you), to long term partner (who is you), is a progression in the right direction.

She very well could be a great lifelong companion if the other things are clicking.

Regardless, I never advise an official legal marriage. Live together, have kids, even go through a religious ceremony. But don't get lawyers and judges involved.

I know, I know, common law shit. But still.

[Rawmeo]

It might be possible to build a good LTR with a non-virgin if her notch count isn't astronomically high - but 18, IMO that's too much.

What makes you think that you, Mr. #19, will be the one she will settle with? I hate to burst people's bubble, but you need to look at the facts: A girl with 18 notches still talking to her ex boyfriend.

I'd date this girl, bring her to my harem, perhaps a mini-relationship, but I wouldn't commit to this girl for this reason alone. I wouldn't imagine my wife saying to my son, "I had 18 boyfriends before your father". My kids would lose respect towards me and fail to respect me as their father if they knew that.

[Thatdude]

This might be a very stupid question, but are you gents defining notches as dick in pussy? I have trouble balancing what the line is. I've been with girls who may have fucked 5-6 dudes, but could have blown more. Not sure what the middle ground is on that.

[The Beast1]

Sorry, but high notch counts are a solid indicator of damaged goods.

There are low notch count women out there in the west. You just need to know where to find them.

[doc holliday]

(02-28-2017 07:07 PM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  

(02-28-2017 03:06 PM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  

But we're not made of stone here, at least I'm not. If you are banging a chick for long enough you will develop some kind of pair bond, and eventually that will lead to emotional investment, and it's concomitant pain, one way or the other.

That's how they get you.

Don't Bang Crazy.

An old acquaintance messaged me today, I hadn't seen him since 2008. In 2008 he was just coming off of a divorce, but fit, and rebuilding his life, getting back on track.

His message to me recently? His ex-wife, who he married because, in his words, "she was a fellow Christian," had committed a crime involving his daughter, a crime which made the papers, while she was intoxicated with her new shaved-head, bearded boyfriend, and my acquaintance was down to grasping at straws to find money for an attorney, to try to save his daughter from more chaos in her environment.

The man is out of shape, can't focus, and financially destroyed. He probably hasn't had a clear thought in his head in years.

Look, betas are going to beta, but it's my hope that a few of them will read the stuff on the forum and avoid a lifetime of misery.

The guys here talking about "get with the times, man," "all women are sluts," "it's ok because I'm more alpha than the rest," those guys have no clue how hard their ass is going to get destroyed, their lack of self-control in regards to pussy and a feeling of invincibility blinds them to what lies on the road ahead.

That, or they're judgment proof and have a high tolerance for a low-quality life.

The rules on what qualities make for a good wife were written far before our time, by men far wiser than any of us, and the human species has not fundamentally changed since then.

The men that wrote these rules were trying to give future generations a leg up, if our egos persuade us to disregard their advice, we do so at our own peril.

The sad part is that for your acquaintance, inspite of the ex's craziness, he has very little chance of rescuing his daughter. Courts very rarely do much of anything to the custodial mother which is what I'm assuming she is right now.

I really feel sorry for young guys today, it is very hard to find a proper woman to trust enough to wife up. A lot of these girls have slept around way too much, so many are on antidepressant meds and hell even the so called chaste girls have other issues like entitlement and spoiled princess syndrome. Not to mention that most women are feminists on one level or another. Take this case that the OP Mensch has posted for us to dissect. Clearly something is not sitting right with him, thus the post and appeal for advice. Look, girls that have lots of issues can still be loving and caring, that's innate in most human beings. They can even make decent ltrs. The problem though is that eventually, these red flags will eventually blow up and create a serious mess that often cannot get cleaned up without much pain and anguish. Typically it happens after you get married and have kids with the woman.

Men need to be uncompromising. They need to aspire to be the highest value they can be. You want a great woman, then you better start and be great first. Or else you're going to end up with crap to choose from. If you are high value, then you get to be uncompromising and demand that your woman be of high value, behave in a proper manner and accept nothing less from her. You hold the leverage because your the prize, not her. Too many of these chicks think that they are the prize and I make it clear that they most certainly are not. Too many guys want to accept compromises that they can't ultimately live with because they don't want to lose the chick. But at what cost? If more men would demand more from their women, and be less pussified, we wouldn't be in this mess.

As far as what Rat said, I think he's an older guy like me who's been through the ringer with women so it matters much less to us if we get with chicks who have seen beaucoup dick. Lord knows I ain't ever getting married again. For younger guys though, no, you need to find something decent and lead and mold her to what you want her to be, not the other way around. If she ain't down with that program, then toss her ass overboard without remorse.

[John Michael Kane]

Did you know it is also possible to go to a casino and beat the house while playing slots? Or you could you could just choose not to play a risky game of chance and stay home.

When a man is searching for LTR/wife, you MUST REDUCE risks, not increase them.

High notch count girls are ALWAYS an increased risk. This is wisdom as old as the Bible itself. Don't play the odds against a rigged bet!

[dongiovanni]

Sounds like a close call Op. Clearly you doubt your ability to find better as you are asking the question. If you suspect her psychological issues weren't that bad and she agrees to cut all contact from her ex, I'd say you should consider it. The stats of girls that have fucked that many cocks seeing out a marriage are pretty damning though. Can you get financial leverage from rich family at least? Having a marital break up after children raised isn't the worst situation if you stand to gain financially.

[Jungle]

(02-28-2017 03:06 PM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  

It's been my experience that high dick count is the most egregious of LTR-worthy violations. It sucks because basically every chick out there outside of Saudi Arabia has been chain smoking pole since their teens. So what's a guy to do?

But we're not made of stone here, at least I'm not. If you are banging a chick for long enough you will develop some kind of pair bond, and eventually that will lead to emotional investment, and it's concomitant pain, one way or the other.

^^ Some real talk right there. It's def a tricky conundrum, particularly in the west.

Also "every chick out there outside of Saudi Arabia has been chain smoking pole since their teens" hahaha man that cracked me up

(02-28-2017 04:49 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

All women are going to have a sky high notch count.

Its not 1864 any more.

That's BS. The proliferation of casual sex is the general trend leading the charge in the west... but in more conservative countries the culture shapes women to be not quite so promiscuous, IN GENERAL. I've had red pill conversations with women in these countries where they've genuinely said they want to minimise sexual partners as much as possible in order to be a better suitor as a wife/mother.

(02-28-2017 05:32 PM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  

One is an appendage penetrating and doing the ole smashing.

The other is getting smashed, stretched, worn, and jizzed into.

This aint rocket surgery my friend.

Hahaha exactly hit the nail on the head again!

[XXL]

Her notch count is nothing special. Girls start fucking earlier these days. No factor to me. Drop that 24 year old virgin fantasy. You can meet them at the end of the world in some shithole.

I would advice you keep an eye on her though. Limit her cotact with her past boyfriends and flings to a minimum.

[StrikeBack]

I married a virgin, and I would never have got married otherwise.

With a virgin wife, there is still plenty of work to do, plenty of leading and moulding to be done. You gotta be prepared to deal with some problems. However, your problems are going to be a lot less severe. My more "serious" problems are like this: my wife and my mother have a little conflict over who runs the kitchen, and who cooks better meals for me, and one or both may get a little bit upset and cry. The amount of work I have to do as a husband and leader is acceptable, even enjoyable if you love leading and are easily amused by women's child-like nature like I am.

If you take a high-notched woman into your life and wife that up, your serious problems are going to be on the level of the optics of a long line of men in the past dicking and jizzing over the mother of your children, ruining her forever for bonding with you.

You might Game your way into a chick's panties with your Alpha awesomeness, but you will not turn a ho into a housewife. Can't be done by us mere mortals. If you are considering LTR and marriage, take it with the utmost seriousness because the wrong choice will destroy your life.

[StrikeBack]

(03-02-2017 02:18 AM)XXL Wrote:  

Her notch count is nothing special. Girls start fucking earlier these days. No factor to me. Drop that 24 year old virgin fantasy. You can meet them at the end of the world in some shithole.

You can find 24 year old virgins, but if you want more abundance, go younger. Go to 18~22 range, you'll have more.

They are very hard to find though, they tend to be in tight knitted social circles, rarely ever go out (my wife used to always get home by 7pm and go to bed at 9-10pm) and they get married young, usually to some guy within the same social circle or from the same church. My wife has a decent number of friends from high school and university that match this description.

There are definitely not enough of them in our modern Western world, but we are not talking about wives for all men here, just about a tiny minority which are RVF members.

[Rawmeo]

I got a 28 y.o. virgin - still possible. IMO this is a problem that will disappear by itself. Sluts will have a hard time finding a marriage partner and will end up alone - this will cause a LOT of girls to be alone, and a slight decline in population. Only the worthy will remain and reproduce, and conservative values will come back while feminists / sluts / cat-ladies will disappear and be forgotten.

[XXL]

I think it will go different way. The more guys become so called conservative the more those girls will lie their asses off about their sexual adventures in ordwr not to be judged. Girls will not change. The will just mask themselves even better and fuck secret society guys on the side cause it does not count

[Kid Twist]

(03-02-2017 05:08 AM)Rawmeo Wrote:  

I got a 28 y.o. virgin - still possible. IMO this is a problem that will disappear by itself. Sluts will have a hard time finding a marriage partner and will end up alone - this will cause a LOT of girls to be alone, and a slight decline in population. Only the worthy will remain and reproduce, and conservative values will come back while feminists / sluts / cat-ladies will disappear and be forgotten.

I'm hoping this is true, but somehow doubt it.

Something severe has to happen to shock "reality" since there is no reality for most postmodern secularists types anymore, just "technology". And belief in "science"

[Kid Twist]

(03-02-2017 02:37 AM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

You can find 24 year old virgins, but if you want more abundance, go younger. Go to 18~22 range, you'll have more.

They are very hard to find though, they tend to be in tight knitted social circles, rarely ever go out (my wife used to always get home by 7pm and go to bed at 9-10pm) and they get married young, usually to some guy within the same social circle or from the same church. My wife has a decent number of friends from high school and university that match this description.

There are definitely not enough of them in our modern Western world, but we are not talking about wives for all men here, just about a tiny minority which are RVF members.

I've thought about this with people I know in a sort of "long game." Basically, I communicate with this type of girl's mom, which is funny, I often wonder if they think being in America the girl shouldn't marry someone like me, due to age (less than 20 year difference, but in the teens). The hurdle here in the west is that culture and simultaneous desire still to have a "career" even if you are well raised and traditional, and a virgin.

[Mercenary]

(03-02-2017 11:26 AM)Kid Twist Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 05:08 AM)Rawmeo Wrote:  

I got a 28 y.o. virgin - still possible. IMO this is a problem that will disappear by itself. Sluts will have a hard time finding a marriage partner and will end up alone - this will cause a LOT of girls to be alone, and a slight decline in population. Only the worthy will remain and reproduce, and conservative values will come back while feminists / sluts / cat-ladies will disappear and be forgotten.

I'm hoping this is true, but somehow doubt it.

Something severe has to happen to shock "reality" since there is no reality for most postmodern secularists types anymore, just "technology". And belief in "science"

This is happening in Venezuela.
Modern society breaks down and patriarchy AND religion comes back naturally with a vengeance.

[worldtraveler3]

People seem to be debating th number 18.

To me it really depends on the situation she was in. If like you said she did it to overcome depression, that might be a red flag. If she did in the college years just having fun maybe it might be alright. Also who are her friends? Are they all slutty girls? Or. Normal girls? Usually people do and behave to a large extent similarly to their close friends. If her friends are all cool girls who you think you can trust and talk with. I don't see a big problem if she just had some fun in college .


If she went to college for 4 years
4 guys a year times 4 years, = 16
Plus 1-2 guys in high school. That should be alright.
The number isn't ideal but you really have to see the exact situation.

[kosko]

(03-05-2017 10:49 AM)worldtraveler3 Wrote:  

People seem to be debating th number 18.

To me it really depends on the situation she was in. If like you said she did it to overcome depression, that might be a red flag. If she did in the college years just having fun maybe it might be alright. Also who are her friends? Are they all slutty girls? Or. Normal girls? Usually people do and behave to a large extent similarly to their close friends. If her friends are all cool girls who you think you can trust and talk with. I don't see a big problem if she just had some fun in college .


If she went to college for 4 years
4 guys a year times 4 years, = 16
Plus 1-2 guys in high school. That should be alright.
The number isn't ideal but you really have to see the exact situation.

Man's fatal flaw is looking at things such as a girls notch count through a logical lens. Sure, 4 bangs a year doesn't sound "that bad" but what isn't she in LTRs or just content with being happy.

A slutty friend of mine is in the same life stage as OP's girl and has only fucked 15 dudes, 4 of them came from a slutty Europe 6 day trip where she fucked a dude in a photo booth, and a cab driver, and some bar meat she picked up.

I would never marry this girl, but using your logic: "it might be alright."

Context does not involves numbers, it involves what she was doing in her life to get those numbers. If she had 'numerous' depression bouts and fucked a a bunch a dudes in that time frame it shows bad on her ability to cope with stress and whatnot. Maybe if she is locked down in a marriage she won't fuck around be she will exhibit bad behavior in other ways.

The way I see it is how is this woman living her life and is she putting herself in situations to be approached by random men who want to smash and toss. There are tons of women who simply don't put themselves in that situation. Those girls who stay home on a Friday night after a dinner with her girls with a book and then wake up early for Yoga on Saturday. You walk around hungover early from piping some broad WHO ISN'T like that and you are surmised of how many fresh and healthy women are out and about at 9am on a Saturday. These are the types of girl who lay low and keep the notch count in check as they just don't have exposure to the "thrill" of jumping on random manz cock.

No need to rationalize. IMO if you have to do the math to keep the male hamster at east then she is already trash. Toss it. These girls, if young, will be fine. We don't owe them anything. A line of men will be in a row to take your place once you cast her aside. But making the fatal choice of settling down with a flawed women will be a punishment that may scare you for life. Choose wisely my friends.

[worldtraveler3]

Really depends on personal preference. Some guys don't really need a girl that is out and about Saturday morning. Some do some don't.
These days it's viewed pretty normal to go out and party on a Friday or Saturday, I dono what city you live in. You prob be deemed anti social if you don't even. I don't mean go out looking for meat every saturday, but it could be a house party with friends , etc.
Regarding euro trips or spring breaks, Places like Cancun are exactly for that reason. Or else they would be out of business. There is the whole marketing and industries for these trips for their particular market segment. Trips like these are already accepted by the mainstream society, that doesn't mean you can't still find low notch count girls, there are plenty of people who don't never been to Cancun or euro trip, but it's all personal preference.
Whether or not you want to settle down with the girl really is due to personal judgement, not so much a figure as in the old days obviously less is better (18 might be the medium figure for the big city urban girl, for cities outside LA NYC but still urban you prob should have the max as single digits)but you need to look at the situation.

[Ironbutt62]

I see men suggesting that 18 notches for the girl at her age is normal. I see men suggesting that her mental health is a red flag. And I see men asserting that she should be complete no-contact with all exes.
I must say, I agree with most of that.
18 notches is a lot. Whether or not that is a lot for the OP is his business. I don't think it necessarily makes him more beta to be ok with 18. If he is fine with the past, and has a understanding with the girl, then the notch count is the least worrying thing.
Mental health? That could be an issue. If the girl legitimately has a problem and is using correct methodologies--perhaps including medicines, if that's right for her, then the OP needs to stay on top of her regime and make sure she's following her plan. The problem is, so many girls use a self-diagnosis of generalized depression to excuse all sorts of bad attitudes and behavior. I would be careful to assure yourself it isn't the latter.
Contact with exes. If there are no children, she needs no contact. Certainly no visits. For me, that would be a non-negotiable.

Just my two cents.

[Ballr]

I have a friend who is rich and good looking. He thinks 6's can hurt you just as bad as 10s. So why not date above? He asks.

Tells me he wants a girl to challenge him and only dates models. Enjoys the arm candy in public, things like that. But these models are always posting half-naked pics on IG and other places. Is this a wrong move on his end? To make her an LTR and possibly have kids with her. He believes all women are the same when it comes down to levels of crazy and would rather get with the best looking. Problem is these models usually do have high notch counts.

Can anyone chime in?

[Steelex]

Bro...

There is no winning this war.

If she tells you 5 notches, it's probably 35 notches. Nothing you can do about it.

I know it's hard, but you gotta quit pedestalizing these chicks. I know it's hard to come to terms that she's had dicks in her mouth other than yours. I think we all struggle with that... As men it just rubs us the wrong way.

But you're really just mentally torturing yourself. It's not worth it.

[Rawmeo]

A girl using ANY kind of medecine for mental condition should be avoided at all costs. It's not natural and you're just looking for trouble if you accept a girl like that. Same goes for depression, bipolarity, ADHD, etc. if she NEEDS medecine, whether she takes it or not, you should drop her.