[Jean Valjean]

These days, women tend to demand personal freedom while they're young, and later disclaim personal responsibility for their youthful decisions. A young woman will justify banging alpha badboys by saying, "My body, my choice! I can think for myself, and don't need anyone to second-guess my decisions, which really aren't anyone else's business." Society will back them up on this, and say, "No slut-shaming! She has a right to pursue happiness as she sees fit."

Later, the now-older woman will say to a beta, "Oh my gosh, I was so young and stupid back then. Being so immature, I really didn't know what I wanted. But now I realize you're the one I should spend the rest of my (post-wall, post-carousel) life with, and I'm so glad you don't hold my past against me." They may even claim victimhood by saying that the men they chose to have sex with took advantage of their youthful naivete. Society will back them up on this, too, and say, again, "No slut-shaming! Forget about the fact that while you were walking through a comparative sexual desert, and working on self-improvement that has now culminated in your reaching peak SMV, she was giving her peak-SMV years to Chad.

"Or, if you are going to view those carousel years as a bad thing, then at least take pity on her for having been victimized by those men who used her for sex, and give her a chance to make the right decision this time. Otherwise, Chad wins, because he got to ruin her life and no one stepped up to rescue her. Show Chad who's boss by marrying the chick he used to bang! Totally supplant Chad, and make his kids call YOU daddy. That'll teach the Chads of the world that it doesn't pay to seduce vulnerable women and then, when they're no longer young and sexy, dump them (for younger and sexier women)."

Standard manosphere advice is to not marry aging sluts, but instead marry (or at least choose as the mother of your child) a virgin aged 18-25. That way, you have the best statistical chance of having a happy and lasting relationship. Problem is, the average girl has already lost her virginity before age 18. Only 12.3 percent of girls in the 20 to 24 age group are still virginal. (Feminists defend alpha badboys' having unwed sex with teen girls as understandable "intimacy" rather than reprehensible "molestation," as long as the badboy is close to the same age as the girl whose virginity he's taking.) Meanwhile, men don't hit their prime till their 30s. So, by the time a typical girl reaches an age at which she's available for marriage to one of these men, she's already damaged goods.

Do young women consciously think to themselves, "It's okay, I can bang alpha badboys throughout my 20s, because at the end, there will be a beta who will think he's doing the right thing by wifing me up, under the theory that youthful mistakes are common and everyone deserves a second chance"?

Or do young women tend to just act impulsively, without regard for consequences that are years in the future? In other words, if betas stop behaving like chumps, and insist on a strict "no hymen, no diamond" policy, will that be enough to change young women's behavior and get them to stop behaving as sluts? Or will women still figure, "Whatever; five minutes of alpha is worth five years of beta, so even if I end up as an antidepressant-swallowing, cat-raising spinster at 27, it'll still be worth it"?

Who is lying here? Are the young girls lying when they say, "I know what I'm doing"? Or are the older women lying when they say, "Back when I was younger, I didn't know what I was doing"? Are girls really capable of logically weighing pros and cons and coming to a good decision for long-term happiness (including factoring in whether later attempts at blame-shifting and manipulation are likely to be successful); or do girls tend to just act based on the feelings of the moment and rationalize their decisions later, which has fooled people into thinking girls are truly rational beings?

If women have trouble controlling their sexual impulses based on concern for long-term consequences, that to me suggests that something more needs to be done, beyond betas' simply insisting on virginal brides, and thereby not enabling female sluttiness anymore. Maybe the age of marriageability will need to be lowered (after a more robust institution of marriage has been put in place that can actually enforce marital responsibilities and provide familial stability and protection for young girls, rather than just functioning as a legal dodge for getting around the age of consent), so that girls will have an opportunity to get married before they give in to the temptation to throw away their virginity on the first alpha badboy to pass by. Maybe parents will need to stop putting their daughters in situations, like college, where they have unlimited opportunities to ride the carousel without being shamed.

By the way, I think it's very telling that older women are in favor of raising the age of marriageability, yet they also favor Romeo-and-Juliet laws that allow teen girls to have sex with boys their own age. I think one reason is that they see early marriage as a tragic waste, since it's pre-wall time that could be better spent having fun riding the carousel. Another reason is that as long as young girls are only having sex with boys their own age, they aren't competing with older women for the pool of available betas who are at their SMV peak. Also, it works to the advantage of aging sluts to encourage young girls to lose their virginity to badboys, so that there won't be a lot of virgins competing with them for the limited supply of greater betas. If a lot of girls keep their virginity until marriage, it starts to make the aging sluts look bad. Men might begin to view them as belonging to a subset of women who are comparatively lacking in wisdom and self-control, rather than as sharing a more universal female condition.

[Il Bersagliere]

This is a great synthesis and primer of ideas we already know, which is the dual sexuality bit.

However, these days, I'm subscribing less and less to shaky evolutionary psychology. The parrots chirping "it's all subconscious, bro" is very weak science along with the rest of the literature I've skimmed through. I think what this amounts to is simply a form of doublethink.

Hoping someone else can chime in.

[brick tamland]

From what I've seen, the majority of girls will do whatever they can get away with. That's despite the values their parents or elders attempted to impart to them and despite the discipline and rules imposed in the household. Once they are out there (e.g. leaving home to live at college) they simply join the herd and adopt the herd's mentality. But most girls avoid getting a bad name, no matter how promiscuous they are. That's why they sail close to the wind only in situations where nothing lands on their doorstep. As an anecdote, quite a few of my fastest lays were with chicks who'd recently moved towns for study or work. I doubt they'd have acted as freely back where they had family, neighbours, and whoever else.
Do they think about consequences - I think they are impulsive in their peak SMV years, knowing that there'll always be some man somewhere down the road who won't perceive her to be like a car with high mileage. As you've said OP, they have "access" from a young age, while the average guy is still figuring things out and his social status is low. They probably have another "clock" in their prime , their imperative being to benefit as much as they can while they have youth on their side. The second clock starts ticking around the age of 29 or 30, when the free ride is coming to an end and they realise that they have little to show for it. And they realise they have tougher competition from the younger girls.

[Tytalus]

I'd say it's a confluence of quality of upbringing, morals, maturity, personality, and social circle.

If all the girls in a social circle are screwing around then a girl who isn't feels pressured to do so. If there isn't the upbringing, alot of girls don't think there's much consequence to having sex. If there isn't the morality that sex before marriage devalues them, then they'll have sex before marriage. If they have an impulsive personality, they'll have sex more easily. These ultimately form a woman's outlook - short term or long term.

A long term thinking woman will be careful and more cautious about their sexual partners since what they want is to find a good guy, settle down and have a family. Short term thinking woman - need I say more?

[iknowexactly]

(01-29-2017 12:02 PM)Jean Valjean Wrote:  

These days, women tend to demand personal freedom while they're young, and later disclaim personal responsibility for their youthful decisions.
...
Later, the now-older woman will say to a beta, "Oh my gosh, I was so young and stupid back then. Being so immature, I really didn't know what I wanted. But now I realize you're the one I should spend the rest of my (post-wall, post-carousel) life with,

...

......
By the way, I think it's very telling that older women .....are in favor of raising the age of marriageability, yet they also favor Romeo-and-Juliet laws that allow teen girls to have sex with boys their own age.
......

Another reason is that as long as young girls are only having sex with boys their own age, they aren't competing with older women for the pool of available betas who are at their SMV peak. Also, it works to the advantage of aging sluts to encourage young girls to lose their virginity to badboys, so that there won't be a lot of virgins competing with them for the limited supply of greater betas.

I totally agree.

Although I advocate obeying all laws and I comply totally with all laws....

.... one of my ancestors was married when she was 15. Of course, almost certainly MANY of my ancestors became pregnant at less than 18.

But since capital (ism) needs trained drones to support the leisure class , this period of fertility must be co-opted for training for support of The Machine. Essentially, restrictive reproduction laws are a de facto draft of women for the out-of-the-home work force.

Thousands of years of reproductive practices -- to which probably almost all of us owe our existence -- were all, we now know with modern wisdom, a mistake.

"The goal of capitalism is to reduce all human interaction to the cash nexus" -Leon Day

[John Michael Kane]

Think about it:

Throughout the ages, fathers and sons were charged with protecting their young daughters and sisters against both rape, and also interloping males that wanted to get laid without taking responsibility for the fatherhood which would follow in the pre-birth control age (the vast majority of human history).

Men of old knew that women wanted sex. Duh! The younger a woman is, the less likely she is to think about the implications of sex. This is especially true if she is not religious or has a weak or missing father. Young women, in an age of birth control, condoms, widespread agnosticism, and narcissism think very little about having sex if a man with all the right attraction triggers come along.

Women are not, and have never been anti-sex. It is their natural desire to reproduce. What's changed is the lack of paternal oversight into the process. There's a reason for throughout human history virgins always commanded a premium. Wiser men of years gone by realized that they shouldn't buy a used card and pay new car price.

Final closing thought: Women used to come with dowries because it was rightly assumed they would be a burden financially. A dowry was an offset for a man's hard work in taking care of a virgin bride. The deal was female chastity in exchange for male fidelity. That's the deal we ultimately need to get back to if we want a thriving culture, not a sexual wasteland of lost souls.

[RatInTheWoods]

They can get away with it, so they do.

There is no shortage of thirsty men to take them on and love them up.

Everyone acts in their self interest, men as well.

[questor70]

What women do after they hit the wall is merely an observed behavioral pattern. I doubt it's something individual women plan out years and years in advance. Young people tend not to plan for the future, period.

[ball dont lie]

I can't say for sure whats going on in the minds of other people, but when I was younger not only did I not think through what was going on in my life and how it would affect me, my hormones were raging and they had a strong control of my actions. Rational thought was not controlling the wheel so to speak. My dick, hormone, lack of real world experience, inability to think about the future, all were going on at the same time.

If women are similar then it would be hard to blame young women. Plus, just as much as I enjoyed bi-polar, sexy chicks who sucked cock like champs, young women enjoy alpha guys who can lay some pipe and make them feel sexy.

The main issue is society and that society is NOT teaching or even talking about what young people need to do to have good marriages and be happy in the future. YOLO is not a good philosophy of life for balances humans in the modern age. There are a million different temptations and zero consequences. Together it causes mental and spiritual breakdowns in women and men both that have lasting effects.

Essentially its not their fault. In the same way I hope no one blames me for being a moron at 18.

[Rob Banks]

(01-29-2017 12:02 PM)Jean Valjean Wrote:  

Standard manosphere advice is to not marry aging sluts, but instead marry (or at least choose as the mother of your child) a virgin aged 18-25. That way, you have the best statistical chance of having a happy and lasting relationship. Problem is, the average girl has already lost her virginity before age 18.

This. This. This.

On the one hand, modern (feminist) society has laws against having sex with -- or marrying -- anyone under 18. In the past, it was common for girls to get married between 13-18, while they were still virgins. Nowadays, it is considered statutory rape.

On the other hand, girls aged 13-18 are encouraged to "explore their sexuality" with boys their own age who are obviously too young and irresponsible to consider marriage and commitment.

This dynamic ensures that the majority of girls are damaged goods by the time they turn 18. Men in their late 20s and 30s who are looking for a nice virgin girl are going to have a hard time finding one.

I can't help but think that all of this is by design. Men who marry used-up women buy in to the leftist narrative. They are also more likely to get divorced. Women who sleep around prior to marriage are more likely to become feminists, get divorced, and teach their children feminist/leftist values. All of this works in the leftists' favor.

Furthermore, girls in the 18-23 age range are led to believe that they should only date men their own age, and that dating an older man is "gross." They will still be attracted to older men, of course, but they will be ashamed of it, and therefore will be less likely to consider an older, more responsible man for marriage. Instead, they will date and sleep around during their early 20s (with older men as well as men their own age), and start looking for a husband in their late 20s or 30s.

The only realistic way for men in the West to avoid this dynamic is to marry their "high school sweetheart." There's nothing wrong with this, but the majority of high school-aged guys are too immature to even consider taking their romantic relationships seriously.

When you're a 16-year-old guy, all your instincts are telling you not to worry about marriage until later on. Throughout most of human history, a respectable man in his mid-to-late 20s could find a teenage virgin girl to marry, and it was considered healthy. Nowadays, a man in his mid-to-late 20s will probably have to settle for a girl his own age who has "only" taken 5-10 dicks in her life.

[Graft]

(01-29-2017 12:02 PM)Jean Valjean Wrote:  

These days, women tend to demand personal freedom while they're young, and later disclaim personal responsibility for their youthful decisions. A young woman will justify banging alpha badboys by saying, "My body, my choice! I can think for myself, and don't need anyone to second-guess my decisions, which really aren't anyone else's business." Society will back them up on this, and say, "No slut-shaming! She has a right to pursue happiness as she sees fit."

Later, the now-older woman will say to a beta, "Oh my gosh, I was so young and stupid back then. Being so immature, I really didn't know what I wanted. But now I realize you're the one I should spend the rest of my (post-wall, post-carousel) life with, and I'm so glad you don't hold my past against me." They may even claim victimhood by saying that the men they chose to have sex with took advantage of their youthful naivete. Society will back them up on this, too, and say, again, "No slut-shaming! Forget about the fact that while you were walking through a comparative sexual desert, and working on self-improvement that has now culminated in your reaching peak SMV, she was giving her peak-SMV years to Chad.

"Or, if you are going to view those carousel years as a bad thing, then at least take pity on her for having been victimized by those men who used her for sex, and give her a chance to make the right decision this time. Otherwise, Chad wins, because he got to ruin her life and no one stepped up to rescue her. Show Chad who's boss by marrying the chick he used to bang! Totally supplant Chad, and make his kids call YOU daddy. That'll teach the Chads of the world that it doesn't pay to seduce vulnerable women and then, when they're no longer young and sexy, dump them (for younger and sexier women)."

Standard manosphere advice is to not marry aging sluts, but instead marry (or at least choose as the mother of your child) a virgin aged 18-25. That way, you have the best statistical chance of having a happy and lasting relationship. Problem is, the average girl has already lost her virginity before age 18. Only 12.3 percent of girls in the 20 to 24 age group are still virginal. (Feminists defend alpha badboys' having unwed sex with teen girls as understandable "intimacy" rather than reprehensible "molestation," as long as the badboy is close to the same age as the girl whose virginity he's taking.) Meanwhile, men don't hit their prime till their 30s. So, by the time a typical girl reaches an age at which she's available for marriage to one of these men, she's already damaged goods.

Do young women consciously think to themselves, "It's okay, I can bang alpha badboys throughout my 20s, because at the end, there will be a beta who will think he's doing the right thing by wifing me up, under the theory that youthful mistakes are common and everyone deserves a second chance"?

Or do young women tend to just act impulsively, without regard for consequences that are years in the future? In other words, if betas stop behaving like chumps, and insist on a strict "no hymen, no diamond" policy, will that be enough to change young women's behavior and get them to stop behaving as sluts? Or will women still figure, "Whatever; five minutes of alpha is worth five years of beta, so even if I end up as an antidepressant-swallowing, cat-raising spinster at 27, it'll still be worth it"?

Who is lying here? Are the young girls lying when they say, "I know what I'm doing"? Or are the older women lying when they say, "Back when I was younger, I didn't know what I was doing"? Are girls really capable of logically weighing pros and cons and coming to a good decision for long-term happiness (including factoring in whether later attempts at blame-shifting and manipulation are likely to be successful); or do girls tend to just act based on the feelings of the moment and rationalize their decisions later, which has fooled people into thinking girls are truly rational beings?

If women have trouble controlling their sexual impulses based on concern for long-term consequences, that to me suggests that something more needs to be done, beyond betas' simply insisting on virginal brides, and thereby not enabling female sluttiness anymore. Maybe the age of marriageability will need to be lowered (after a more robust institution of marriage has been put in place that can actually enforce marital responsibilities and provide familial stability and protection for young girls, rather than just functioning as a legal dodge for getting around the age of consent), so that girls will have an opportunity to get married before they give in to the temptation to throw away their virginity on the first alpha badboy to pass by. Maybe parents will need to stop putting their daughters in situations, like college, where they have unlimited opportunities to ride the carousel without being shamed.

By the way, I think it's very telling that older women are in favor of raising the age of marriageability, yet they also favor Romeo-and-Juliet laws that allow teen girls to have sex with boys their own age. I think one reason is that they see early marriage as a tragic waste, since it's pre-wall time that could be better spent having fun riding the carousel. Another reason is that as long as young girls are only having sex with boys their own age, they aren't competing with older women for the pool of available betas who are at their SMV peak. Also, it works to the advantage of aging sluts to encourage young girls to lose their virginity to badboys, so that there won't be a lot of virgins competing with them for the limited supply of greater betas. If a lot of girls keep their virginity until marriage, it starts to make the aging sluts look bad. Men might begin to view them as belonging to a subset of women who are comparatively lacking in wisdom and self-control, rather than as sharing a more universal female condition.

Great post. You touch up on a lot of good points.

Both of the reasons you mentioned regarding their sexual strategy are a factor.

1) There will always be a beta/omega for them. As much as we love to rejoice post-wallers missing the boat, there are plenty of suckers still willing to date/marry them. A quarter-decent woman will never be without the option of a many willing to indirectly pay for their sexual services. Ironically, the biggest betas tend to be upper-middle class/wealthier men, who have no problem marrying 10-15 years down to a 30+ year old.

2) Women simply have no concept of making sacrifices for the future. I dated a "traditional" chick who was 24 and wanted to be engaged by 26. "Perfect!', I said, because even though I would have never pulled the trigger, at least we shared values. She talked about marriage/children almost daily, to the point of annoyance to me, but I was OK with it because she seemed traditional enough.

Fast forward a few months into the relationship, she starts resenting the time she's missing with her girls in NYC (all YOLO sluts.) It ultimately ruined our relationship, because she could not tolerate simple date nights/Netflix with me. She needed constant stimulation from bars, brunch, booze, Snapchat, etc. I tried to logic with her, of course to no avail, that her two year timeline for engagement was difficult enough for her already, especially since she is pump-and-dump material in NYC.

As for the solution, ultimately we have a few options:

1)Massive culture change, led by us. We need to start actively demanding what we want (nohymennodiamond, fair marriage laws, patriarchal society) If that doesn't happen, continue to spin plates, pump and dump.

2) Legalized prostitution. This will eliminate sexual frustration/thirst for betas and omegas

3) Change our immigration policy to accommodate young foreign women into the country.

[John Michael Kane]

Quote:

1)Massive culture change, led by us. We need to start actively demanding what we want (nohymennodiamond, fair marriage laws, patriarchal society) If that doesn't happen, continue to spin plates, pump and dump.

Cultural change can be done through meme warfare. Worked to get Trump elected. I'd argue that memes like no hymen, no diamond could be successful in the long term, especially if a big STD that isn't curable comes around. Pumping and dumping only produces more sluts and gets you no closer to solving the problem. Giving zero attention to sluts is the only way for a man to focus on the narrow portion of women that are worth giving attention to: non-sluts. A man only has so much time, money and emotional resources at the end of the day.

Quote:

2) Legalized prostitution. This will eliminate sexual frustration/thirst for betas and omegas

Whores used to be a sexual outlet for the frustrated man. Now we have porn and VR porn coming soon, if not sexbots. Men don't lake for sexual alternatives to marriage. In fact, I'd argue that increasing the number of whores reduces the number of women worth marrying. It isn't a viable long-term solution. Omegas are always going to omega, because they refuse self-improvement. They were never going to be decent family men because they don't try. Betas, on the other hand, need to learn game to avoid the bad girls and filter for the good ones. One of the betas biggest weaknesses is that he is socially unaware of the difference between a quality woman and one that will take him for a ride. Giving him access to whores isn't going to get him any closer to being a productive patriarch of a family.

Quote:

3) Change our immigration policy to accommodate young foreign women into the country.

That's a good idea. Bring in young women without a ton of education from foreign countries. They will be prime targets for beta males that wish to marry. It will also give the added benefit of having existing women compete more with the new arrivals and men everywhere win.

[OCZ]

As we know, West Society grows more tolerant with youth promiscuity; girls losing their virginity around 13-14. I don't think the sex or the age is the issue, but the fact society tolerates women's promiscuity. People don't judge a women who isn't able to have a stable relationship, they call them "they don't know what they want, they are trying to fin themselves". We will never be able to go back to the point a woman will be virgin until marriage, unless rules like the ones in the islamic countries have on. In what should we focus? Society needs to be more judgmental with women who are unable to keep in a relationship and instead prefer to be in the cock carrousel during all their youth until the unfortunate beta met her in her 30's.

Women who had 2-3 sexual partners from which all were in long relationships it isn't bad, BUT society need to press women that being single and crazy after 30 is bad. How can we do it? I will describe 2 cities with very different scenarios in regards with women.

My hometown Saltillo, Mexico: After college, the majority of women pursue an stable relationships many of them marring their university boyfriends and planning a life together. By the age of 25-27 almost all women are either married or in a long relationship which will lead to marriage. Why? Society. Their families, their friends, and their social circles push them to be it. They usually have kids around 28-30, despite all the influence of the US and the arrival of many international companies (it is a very industrialized city) it has somehow maintained its cultural background, which in the North of Mexico is common. Nevertheless I'll say this is starting to change slowly for future generations.

The opposite example Stockholm, Sweden. In Stockholm, the society is focused on being independent both for men and women. They teach them since they are kids to be independent, they government encourage them to be independent. The relationship with their families is very different and in many cases they don't judge their children as much. Their mentality changes drastically with time. A girl under 25-27 likes to enjoy her life, travel, have multiple partners UNTIL the first girl in their circle of friends marries/has a kid... which for swedish society is around 30, at that moment they start to desperately look for something serious and they force themselves to become stable women, nevertheless the same encouragement of society to be independent will crack a marriage in the first crisis a couple goes through ( wonder why sweden is one of the countries with highest rate of divorce). Why? Society is too blame.

What can we do about it? Start changing our mentality, start being judgmental as a whole and women will start to judge each other, eventually going to a less degenerate scenario. There are many things in they way, but it is not impossible.

[Rawmeo]

Short answer: Almost none. People (men too) live for themselves and only want to please themselves.

We can once more blame feminism for this, for creating a generation of not-marriageable women who prefer to pursue a career. Remember, when birth rates go down, we need to replace those people by people who make children - we all know where this is going.

[polar]

Take what into account?

[SlickyBoy]

Quote:

Or will women still figure, "Whatever; five minutes of alpha is worth five years of beta, so even if I end up as an antidepressant-swallowing, cat-raising spinster at 27, it'll still be worth it"?

It's been my experience that women would rather share an alpha than touch a beta. So yes, they do what you suggest. Whether they consciously "figure" this, I'm not so sure. They are opportunistic versus idealistic with regard to relationships, yet they still let the hamster get the better of them - never thinking the party will end until it finally does.

I recently went (was dragged to) a party for an American woman turning 50. You can imagine the crowd - mid to late 40s women, some with boyfriends or husbands, others with nothing but desperation, wrinkles and cat hair covered sweaters. While reminiscing aloud about good times gone by, one of them hooted something about "pussy hats" to the delight of all the rest, even though the birthday girl's octogenarian parents and a couple of teen grandkids were present. The wall smacked all these women hard at least ten years ago, yet they still think and act like they're hot 20-somethings, unable to muster the common decorum once expected for someone in their age bracket. It's truly sad how much the culture crumbled in just a couple of decades.


As for older guys being shamed for marrying younger women in modern western times, indeed, there's nothing but disdain for that. When a 40 year old male track coach married a 16 year old female student ten years ago, the reaction was visceral. I can't find a clip of the news report, but the female anchors were bemoaning her chance to "experience life" before settling down. Translation: they'd have zero problem with her riding the cock carousel for the past ten years versus beginning (and likely remaining) in a stable, monogamous marriage. Major plus points for the guy being able to pull it off in this day and age without getting thrown in jail - seems the whole thing was genuine.

[Thought Criminal]

First, there was hook-up culture. Now, we have rape culture. Obviously, women do not want to take responsibility for their actions. Women believe they have a prerogative to change their mind - after the fact. In my grandmother's era, the advice was "Don't lead a man on." Today's women need to listen to their grandparents.

[crottstep]

Great thread on subjects I've been obsessing about over lately.

I've looked at this from so many perspectives already that I'm not sure where to go from here. During highschool I also chose to not get involved seriously with any girl, due to wanting to move abroad and finding about game pretty early. I saw my friends settling down for literally the first girl who would give them the time of day, and found it pathetic. I still do, however now that I'm 23, and I have begun to realize the finer realities of marriage, casual sex and so on, I am beginning to fucking freak out in some senses.

I would not marry a non-virgin girl ( I've brainwashed myself with all those studies too much to be able to ignore it anymore ), and I'm getting increasingly more concerned about the prospects of being able to find one given my current situation and future prospects. The highschool sweetheart scenario is out, and I'm afraid about the ever increasing age gap, which would make it more and more improbable to find and lock down the introverted, real wife-material virgin 18-20something y.o.

I am aware of the commonly held belief about a men's prime being in his 30s, but I simply find the actual realities to be unfavorable in regards to this specific goal, in most cases. Anyone have thoughts on this?

To give more context, I am rulling out the asian countries where this would be most feasible ( asian girls are not my thing, I've tried ), as well as Eastern Europe, where I am originally from ( but do not wish to move back to ).

(02-02-2017 07:53 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  

As for older guys being shamed for marrying younger women in modern western times, indeed, there's nothing but disdain for that. When a 40 year old male track coach married a 16 year old female student ten years ago, the reaction was visceral.

The hypocrisy of the average western woman - and the media supporting the narrative - is fucking incredible. While this dude gets shitted on, apparently looks, money and status make it completely socially acceptable. Case in point, a 37 y.o. Paul Walker with his 16 y.o. girlfriend.

Granted, dude had a bigger SMV than 99.9% of guys, but my point still stands.

[Conquerer7]

(02-02-2017 01:18 PM)Rawmeo Wrote:  

Short answer: Almost none. People (men too) live for themselves and only want to please themselves.

We can once more blame feminism for this, for creating a generation of not-marriageable women who prefer to pursue a career. Remember, when birth rates go down, we need to replace those people by people who make children - we all know where this is going.

It first shocked me when I unplugged that people cannot see how all this is going to end up in regards to birth rates and incoming migrants. It's easy to predict.

[Conquerer7]

(02-11-2017 06:06 AM)crottstep Wrote:  

Great thread on subjects I've been obsessing about over lately.

I've looked at this from so many perspectives already that I'm not sure where to go from here. During highschool I also chose to not get involved seriously with any girl, due to wanting to move abroad and finding about game pretty early. I saw my friends settling down for literally the first girl who would give them the time of day, and found it pathetic. I still do, however now that I'm 23, and I have begun to realize the finer realities of marriage, casual sex and so on, I am beginning to fucking freak out in some senses.

I would not marry a non-virgin girl ( I've brainwashed myself with all those studies too much to be able to ignore it anymore ), and I'm getting increasingly more concerned about the prospects of being able to find one given my current situation and future prospects. The highschool sweetheart scenario is out, and I'm afraid about the ever increasing age gap, which would make it more and more improbable to find and lock down the introverted, real wife-material virgin 18-20something y.o.

I am aware of the commonly held belief about a men's prime being in his 30s, but I simply find the actual realities to be unfavorable in regards to this specific goal, in most cases. Anyone have thoughts on this?

To give more context, I am rulling out the asian countries where this would be most feasible ( asian girls are not my thing, I've tried ), as well as Eastern Europe, where I am originally from ( but do not wish to move back to ).

(02-02-2017 07:53 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  

As for older guys being shamed for marrying younger women in modern western times, indeed, there's nothing but disdain for that. When a 40 year old male track coach married a 16 year old female student ten years ago, the reaction was visceral.

The hypocrisy of the average western woman - and the media supporting the narrative - is fucking incredible. While this dude gets shitted on, apparently looks, money and status make it completely socially acceptable. Case in point, a 37 y.o. Paul Walker with his 16 y.o. girlfriend.

Granted, dude had a bigger SMV than 99.9% of guys, but my point still stands.

Same for me. I'm 21. I have a candidate who is my main girl (took her virginity and hymen) and we'll see how it goes. A 7 and great match in personality along with nurturing/submissive.. I also consider that I could bang the exotic girls at any age. This may be my only chance with a virgin in this climate even if my SMV improves due to the age shaming etc. Try not to get forced into a scarcity mentality. As well as this having kids around 25-30 appeals for the opportunity to hopefully be around for my grandchildren growing up aswell.

[Easy_C]

It depends on the values they're imprinted with, and I've also noticed that a lot of it has to do with getting the right amounts of healthy attention from their father. My girl was very conservative sexually and routinely talks shit on people who do slut it up (comments like "I hope they enjoy their STDs!"), while her younger sisters weren't anywhere near so conservative. I think a lot of it has to do with how she had a better relationship with her father and was raised more strictly than her younger siblings were...plus there was that dynamic of the younger kids competing for attention.

Quote:

Same for me. I'm 21. I have a candidate who is my main girl (took her virginity and hymen) and we'll see how it goes. A 7 and great match in personality along with nurturing/submissive.. I also consider that I could bang the exotic girls at any age. This may be my only chance with a virgin in this climate even if my SMV improves due to the age shaming etc. Try not to get forced into a scarcity mentality. As well as this having kids around 25-30 appeals for the opportunity to hopefully be around for my grandchildren growing up aswell.

No shame is that. Keep in mind that there is a difference between a "scarcity" mentality and knowing value. To use an imperfect analogy: There's a shitload of places to get a cheeseburger out there, but sometimes paying twice as much for a charcoal grilled, grass-fed gouda-bacon burger is completely worth it. Quality distinctions do exist and being able to gauge the quality of a woman's character is a valuable life skill.

[John Michael Kane]

Women respect strong male authority, but mostly if they get it from a young age. You can't begin to fathom how important a great father is on the influence of a young daughter's mind. It shouldn't come as a surprise that the nicest girls you'll ever meet have great relationships with their dads by and large, and the nasty women you won't to avoid had abusive or missing fathers.

[Rob Banks]

(02-02-2017 09:04 AM)OCZ Wrote:  

Women who had 2-3 sexual partners from which all were in long relationships it isn't bad...

You see, that's the type of thinking that got us in trouble in the '60s.

The social change from traditional marriage to modern promiscuity and hook-up culture did not happen overnight. Older, more conservative people would have never accepted hook-up culture, homosexuality, etc., so the leftists introduced it incrementally.

The idea you describe ("If a woman has had 2-3 sexual partners all from LTRs, it isn't bad), was gaining popularity in the decades prior to the 1960s. Ever since women's suffrage, women have enjoyed more and more "freedom" in terms of dating and sex, which eventually reached a critical mass and exploded into the so-called "sexual revolution" in the 1960s.

Yes, it is bad if a woman has had "only" 2-3 partners. It's not as bad as if she has had 50 partners, but it is still bad. And no, it doesn't matter if they were LTRs or one-night stands. Dick is dick.

PS: It's one thing to be realistic and accept that you probably won't marry a virgin in this day and age. It's another thing entirely to say "it isn't bad" for a woman to have multiple sexual partners before marriage.

[Kid Twist]

Great posts. I've enjoyed this thread more than many. Kudos

[Genghis Khan]

(02-11-2017 06:06 AM)crottstep Wrote:  

I still do, however now that I'm 23, and I have begun to realize the finer realities of marriage, casual sex and so on, I am beginning to fucking freak out in some senses.

(02-02-2017 07:53 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  

As for older guys being shamed for marrying younger women in modern western times, indeed, there's nothing but disdain for that. When a 40 year old male track coach married a 16 year old female student ten years ago, the reaction was visceral.

The hypocrisy of the average western woman - and the media supporting the narrative - is fucking incredible. While this dude gets shitted on, apparently looks, money and status make it completely socially acceptable. Case in point, a 37 y.o. Paul Walker with his 16 y.o. girlfriend.

Granted, dude had a bigger SMV than 99.9% of guys, but my point still stands.

Don't take this personally, but I'm assuming since you're 23 years old you don't have much money or status. As such, you may be empathizing a bit too much with the 40-year-old high school track coach. Quite frankly: if you're a high school track coach at the age of 40, you're a loser in life. And the only reason he even got with this 16-year-old is because he was a situational alpha. She's attracted to him because he's in a leadership position over her, but outside of high school the dude is a grade A loser. And leaving aside the commentary of female news anchors, her parents were rightfully outraged at their relationship. Imagine yourself as the father of a teenage daughter and some loser 40-year-old guy who hasn't accomplished anything in life swoops her. It's a different scenario altogether if the guy is well-put, successful in life, well-respected in his community etc. As you get older and gain your footing in society, you too will see that guys like these don't deserve any respect.

Rollo has an interesting article about this on his website:
https://therationalmale.com/2012/03/05/t...ual-alpha/

Quote:

As Roissy illustrates, Hooker was playing to his strengths. In virtually any other social setting he’d be perceived as a beta. Naughty Ninja and damn near every other casual observer peg this guy for the Beta-Symp he undoubtedly is, but in that classroom, to a 14 year old girl who gradually matures into an 18 year old woman, Hooker is Alpha, and probably the only Alpha she’d ever experienced.

Quote:

To venture a guess I’d expect that Hooker buys his own bullshit, and because of this he hasn’t given an afterthought to how it will affect his career, his relationship with his family, his kids or any future social circle. As an extension to this, along with his teaching job, Hooker has lost his contextual Alpha cred. As his young chippy matures more, she’ll begin to see that contextual Alpha status erode with every progressive shit test he fails. And removed from the environment that made him Alpha, fail he will.

(02-12-2017 05:24 PM)Rob Banks Wrote:  

(02-02-2017 09:04 AM)OCZ Wrote:  

Women who had 2-3 sexual partners from which all were in long relationships it isn't bad...

You see, that's the type of thinking that got us in trouble in the '60s.

The social change from traditional marriage to modern promiscuity and hook-up culture did not happen overnight. Older, more conservative people would have never accepted hook-up culture, homosexuality, etc., so the leftists introduced it incrementally.

The idea you describe ("If a woman has had 2-3 sexual partners all from LTRs, it isn't bad), was gaining popularity in the decades prior to the 1960s. Ever since women's suffrage, women have enjoyed more and more "freedom" in terms of dating and sex, which eventually reached a critical mass and exploded into the so-called "sexual revolution" in the 1960s.

Yes, it is bad if a woman has had "only" 2-3 partners. It's not as bad as if she has had 50 partners, but it is still bad. And no, it doesn't matter if they were LTRs or one-night stands. Dick is dick.

PS: It's one thing to be realistic and accept that you probably won't marry a virgin in this day and age. It's another thing entirely to say "it isn't bad" for a woman to have multiple sexual partners before marriage.

This is an interesting point. Related to it: should we also "slut-shame" players or even guys in general who take a girl's virginity?

Obviously, some girls are downright sluts and should be treated as such. Even sluts start off as virgins. I'm not talking about them.

I'm talking about good, sweet, feminine girls who maybe are a bit brainwashed. Should you take their virginity if you don't plan on marrying them? Didn't you ruin that girl for the next man in line, who refuses to marry a girl who has had sexual partners?

I don't know the answer, it's still something I'm trying to sort out myself. But if we believe women need men to guide them, then logically we should also tell guys to stop wrecking good girls? Roosh talked about it in his last video ("why are women being educated") - 20% of men (alphas/players) are messing it up for all other men. Perhaps it's time we start shaming men for messing up future wife material girls.

EDIT: I found another post you wrote, which seems to answer my question:

From thread-50925-page-4.html:

Quote:

Even if a girl is not a "cock-carousel gold member" but is open to the occasional casual/short-term relationship, you likely still won't "alter [her] destiny" no matter what you do (or don't do).

In my opinion, the only kind of girl you should be worried about "ruining" is a girl who is legit trying to save herself for marriage, and these kinds of girls usually don't put themselves in casual sex situations to begin with (unless you outright lie to them and promise to marry them, which I agree is sleazy as fuck).