[numanist]

Leftists always make the blanket assertion that the West has exploited Africa for it's vast quantity of resources., but they never really elaborate on how the West has done so. As far as I see it, the west really hasn't had much of an economic interest in Africa for 40 years. Comparatively, the West has given much more to Africa in terms of architecture, technology, and medicine. Warren Buffet and the Bill Gates, along with the U.S. and Chinese government, NGOs and Christian organizations have given Africa several billions of dollars over the years. Can you tell me last time you saw a product that said, "Made in Africa"? I can't.

Not only that but you also have a lot of NGO presidents that are making large six figure salaries and living in large houses in gated communities while the rest of Africa lives pretty modestly, but do you hear any mentions of this? Instead, they repeatedly gripe about the West's legacy of colonialism and "exploitation" of Africa while not doing anything constructive about it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there is something more going on then the eye can see, and I really would like to get to the bottom of it. I myself have never been to Africa, I've only seen documentaries and read stories - so I might not have a balanced perspective on what is actually going on there. I would however really like it if you would give me your thoughts on this, my eyes and ears are open to different opinions.

[cascadecombo]

race thread potential: very high.

[Cr33pin]

AIDS

[Captainstabbin]

We used to get some hard workers from over there but that ended a while ago. South Africa had a manufacturing base until Apartheid ended. Right now we get some raw materials, diamonds, some agricultural products and sweet deals on safari vacations.

Even tourism is dropping off since you have crazy Muslims in the north and Ebola in the south.

[Repo]

"Leftists always make the blanket assertion that the West has exploited Africa for it's vast quantity of resources., but they never really elaborate on how the West has done so. "

Actually, people do elaborate on that, and its not just "leftists". If you actually wanted to know, you could have googled it. This post comes off as more of a rant, rather than an actual request for knowledge.

[I DIDN'T KILL MY WIFE]

(01-25-2017 01:52 PM)cascadecombo Wrote:  

race thread potential: very high.

We're in a new age bro, we're past that kneejerk response

[Mekorig]

Right now: Mostly oil, diamonds, rare metals and other minerals, some agro products, and not much more. There is almost no industry in Africa (mostly clostered around South Africa and Egypt/Mediterranean coast).

[rottenapple]

The minerals all the electronic devices are made from, gold/diamonds, palm oil, coffee, cacao, cotton, grain, ... Plenty of stuff and you could´ve easily known this by a quick google search. Your post is full of ignorant statements.

"Can you tell me last time you saw a product that said, "Made in Africa"? I can't." -->They don´t sell a lot of finished products, but rather base materials.

"the west really hasn't had much of an economic interest in Africa for 40 years"-->you got to be kidding me. Africa has so many more resources than the whole of Europe. Do you realize Africa is about the same size as China, India, Europe, the US and Mexico combined?

"you also have a lot of NGO presidents that are making large six figure salaries and living in large houses in gated communities while the rest of Africa lives pretty modestly, but do you hear any mentions of this?"-->whatever an NGO president would make is nothing compared to what he could make in the private sector, also Ive lived in Africa and I have not seen these wealthy presidents running about, NGO´s in general are ran with high levels of transparency, there are exceptions, but they are not the norm in any way.

Keep reading and preferably do so before you start a new thread.

[Cr33pin]

Blessed rains

[Mr. Ripley]

Oil, Diamonds... Just a start.
There's a reason for all those proxy wars during the twentieth century.

[kosko]

(01-25-2017 01:42 PM)numanist Wrote:  

Leftists always make the blanket assertion that the West has exploited Africa for it's vast quantity of resources., but they never really elaborate on how the West has done so. As far as I see it, the west really hasn't had much of an economic interest in Africa for 40 years. Comparatively, the West has given much more to Africa in terms of architecture, technology, and medicine. Warren Buffet and the Bill Gates, along with the U.S. and Chinese government, NGOs and Christian organizations have given Africa several billions of dollars over the years. Can you tell me last time you saw a product that said, "Made in Africa"? I can't.

Not only that but you also have a lot of NGO presidents that are making large six figure salaries and living in large houses in gated communities while the rest of Africa lives pretty modestly, but do you hear any mentions of this? Instead, they repeatedly gripe about the West's legacy of colonialism and "exploitation" of Africa while not doing anything constructive about it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there is something more going on then the eye can see, and I really would like to get to the bottom of it. I myself have never been to Africa, I've only seen documentaries and read stories - so I might not have a balanced perspective on what is actually going on there. I would however really like it if you would give me your thoughts on this, my eyes and ears are open to different opinions.

Well I can take a bite here but you will have to do me a favour and meet me in the middle.

I would not call this a race thread but OP is ignorant as hell.

Your ignorance is much to large for me to start on how to explain and unbox the West relationship with Africa for you so you should do some basic reading on: the roots of colonialism in Africa, transformations of Sub-Sahara Africa Post-Colonialism, the independence push, the oil/OPEC crisis, and to now the modern day. Once you read up on that it should at least give you an idea of the very basics that you should know before even asking questions. Becuase once you read up on these topics the quality of your questions will improve regardless of what lens you view the history through.

Plus "The West" is not a correct term to use. The relationship with Africa has largely been a European affair due to history.

The USA has attempted to carve into Africa a few times throughout the decades and failed each time (Liberia, Somalia, Egyptian Anchor for the whole continent) and more or less retreated only until Obama attempted to re-assert itself as a means to power block China. But you have much to learn before even getting into all of that.

The first mis-truth is this idea of Africa largely being dependent on Foreign Aid. Foreign Aid peaked in 2013 at $135 Billlion, while Africa's GDP totals $3.7 Trillion (PPP) so it really is just a drop in the bucker in the big picture. Most of the Aid just gets circled around to paper backs and grease hands.

The second mis-truth is people do not understand the size and scope of how large the continent is, and subsequently how large its nations are. Africa is the largest geographic continental land mass. It is actually much larger than Russia, take a look:



You have the DR Congo which is a quarter of the size of the USA:


With this huge land mass, and with 1.2 billion people living there Africa is still largely empty. Countries such as Nigeria with 150 million people is still vastly empty brush and plain as the country is almost 3x the size of California.

When you realize the scale and size of the place understand that laying down infrastrucutre there is feat and tall task. Just to provide DR Congo with modern infrastrutre would take the work of almost 75 years that took place in America to lay down systems such as rail and roads.

But those points are likley a wake up call. But you do need to read more because right now you don't know anything on the subject and I encourage you to do more research so you can ask better questions.

[Captainstabbin]

This has me thinking. Has anyone here been on a safari vacation? They have deals posted on Travelzoo for $2000 including the flight. It looks like a lot of fun.

I wanted to go to Egypt but that seems a little dangerous right now.

[Kona]

Barack Hussein Obama



Some people don't like him though:

thread-51837.html

Aloha!

[Phoenix]

Existence? Humans originate from Africa, right?

[iop890]

Thiccness

[Thomas the Rhymer]

I was reading an article somewhere that the USA buys a lot of votes at the United Nations through targeted 'foreign aid' to African politicians. So there's that.

As for exploitation, this video sums it up:

As a side thought, one of the reasons why immigration is pushed hard in western countries is because it encourages people to flee their countries rather than affect real change - this keeps the corrupt and the weak in power in the third world, which suits the elites just fine.

As for NGOs, every cash-sucking NGO needs a victim to help. It's propaganda to get hands on a stash of cash.

[numanist]

What if I do not have much use for Gold, Cocoa, Palm Oil or Diamonds? To me, those things are frivolities. They make you look good, but they don't have much utility otherwise. And even so when you look at the figures, Africa exports a small fraction of gold, diamonds and oil in relation to other countries. As for Diamonds they can actually be manufactured in laboratories. Moreover, Russia takes the honors as the top diamond exporter in the world, and the top 3 gold exporters are as follows: U.S., Australia, and China. Gold might be a good conductor for electronics, but silver and copper are far cheaper and more efficient alternatives.

https://financesonline.com/top-10pgold-p...the-world/

[Geomann180]

(01-25-2017 01:52 PM)Cr33pin Wrote:  

AIDS

G

[the high]

One word: cobalt.

[rottenapple]

(01-25-2017 02:49 PM)numanist Wrote:  

What if I do not have much use for Gold, Cocoa, Palm Oil or Diamonds? To me, those things are frivolities. They make you look good, but they don't have much utility otherwise. And even so when you look at the figures, Africa exports a small fraction of gold, diamonds and oil in relation to other countries. As for Diamonds they can actually be manufactured in laboratories. Moreover, Russia takes the honors as the top diamond exporter in the world, and the top 3 gold exporters are as follows: U.S., Australia, and China. Gold might be a good conductor for electronics, but silver and copper are far cheaper and more efficient alternatives.

https://financesonline.com/top-10pgold-p...the-world/

Nobody cares what you personally have use for. Your question was what do we get out of Africa. You also don´t seem to realize that palm oil is pretty much in everything: shampoo, pizza, margarine, snacks like doritos, cookies, bread, noodles, soap, etc. Stop replying dumb stuff and read, investigate and think before posting. You also don´t use electronic devices? Tin, tantalum, tungsten, etc. are also all imported from Africa.

[the high]

And lol at 'made in' being some sort of barometer of value. Tell you what, I'll trade you your gold watch for this glow in the dark electric fan. Ey, it says made in China.

[kaotic]

[quote='numanist' pid='1494432' dateline='1485373786']
What if I do not have much use for Gold, Cocoa, Palm Oil or Diamonds?

They're used in many of the products you use or consume.

I'd say we all have much use out of those you mentioned.

[frenchcorporation]

Leaders of Ex French African colonies are forced to keep their money reserves in French banks (under the threat of the usual assassination/deposement), and France get first dibs on those countries natural resources, at a reduced rate of course, since the African countries have to seek permission to use their own money. So there's that.

"Without Africa, France will have no history in the 21st century"- François Mitterrand, then the French minister of the interior

[numanist]

Quote:

Nobody cares what you personally have use for. Your question was what do we get out of Africa. You also don´t seem to realize that palm oil is pretty much in everything: shampoo, pizza, margarine, snacks like doritos, cookies, bread, noodles, soap, etc. Stop replying dumb stuff and read, investigate and think before posting. You also don´t use electronic devices? Tin, tantalum, tungsten, etc. are also all imported from Africa.

I have a tough time listening to you when you use personal ad-hominem attacks. I get that you are dependent on Africa and all for your job, but everyone has a different value system. Stop looking at things at black and white and us vs them, start looking at things through a self-interest perspective.

[armenia4ever]

The trade potential is there, but not for a long time.

One major problem is that most of the population of Africa hasn't had the equivalent of 1st grade education for countless generations. While the left may bitch about colonialism, the parts of Africa that hadn't been colonized would be even more in the past then they currently are. North Africa and part of NW Africa is in decent shape, but that is because of it's proximity to the Mediterranean and years of trade, exchange of culture, and eventual adoption of both Arab and European tech.

What would surprise you is the value of things we have little use for year. For instance I know some missionaries in Nigeria who described in detail how valuable a bus was there.

When a bus would pick up people, they would be packed in so much, that you would literally have people laying across each other till there was absolutely no space left on the bus. There is no aisle, standing room, etc. If you want to get off and you are under someone laying on top of you, over, or across you have to somehow make room for them to get off as does everyone else in that area. So much for personal space eh? (Interesting cultural development based on transportation realities.)

Once you get outside any kind of "city" its completely rural. A former missionary who actually lives in my apartment complex described he met people who had actually never taken a bath in their lives. In another place - which I cant recall - there is a huge rickety type of city on the water because it's not taxed if on the water. The water is nasty because people literally just shit in there and all the sewage just collects.

I've seen some proposals for infrastructure development, but raising up a generation of locals who can do it is the primary issue besides the other elephant in the room; corruption. It's an element integral to many of the cultures on the continent and prevents it from progress. Its a serious issue - far worse than in South America. Much of the aid never gets to the locals - officials pocket it and use it for their own means.


Fun fact I learned: Some of the turbans they have there have nothing to do with any specific religion, but are actually a sign of respect for the elders of a tribe. I guess it also really keeps you cool.