[joeclyde99]

Ignorance is astounding. Yet they call others whiners.

[MongolianAbroad]

I think it's pretty cool that Africans attempted an Atlantic crossing before the Spanish, and with an army of ships, no less (4,000 ships, 2,000 for men and 2,000 for supplies). They had a go big or go home attitude towards exploration.

Think of the kind of order this state, Mali, must have had, to be able/willing to carry out an expedition of that magnitude into unknown waters, in 1311, almost 200 years before the Spanish crown did, via Cristopher Columbus, in 1492.

What an adventure.

During the "Laye" period of the Mali Empire, only the Mongol Empire was larger than it.

That's impressive.

Imagine if the expeditions of these brave men had been a success and the Mali Empire had colonized the New World?

It's fascinating, here's a link to the relevant wikipedia article, and most of the content below:

Abu Bakr II

Quote:

Abu Bakr II (fl. 14th century), also spelled Abubakri and known as Mansa Qu, may have been the ninth mansa of the Mali Empire. He succeeded his nephew Mansa Mohammed ibn Gao and preceded Mansa Musa. Abu Bakr II abdicated his throne in order to explore "the limits of the ocean".

Contents

1Background
2Reign
3Trans-Atlantic travel
4See also
5Notes
6References
7External links

Background

Abu Bakar was one of two sons of Kolonkan, a sister of the founding emperor Sundjata Keita.[citation needed] He was the last of a mini-dynasty within the Keita clan of emperors descending from Kolonkan. After his abdication in 1311, the Faga Laye mini-dynasty would control the empire.

Reign

Virtually all that is known of Abu Bakr II is from the account of Chihab al-Umari. Al-Umari visited Cairo after Mansa Musa stopped there during his historic hajj to Mecca, and recorded a conversation between Musa and his host, Abu'l Hasan Ali ibn Amir Habib. According to Musa, Abu Bakr became convinced that he could find the edge of the Atlantic Ocean, and outfitted an expedition of 200 ships to find it. Only one of those ships returned; the captain related that the expedition had come to a "river with a powerful current" in the ocean. The current took most of the fleet away, after which the captain turned back. According to Musa, Abu Bakr was undeterred and launched an even larger expedition with himself as the head, departing with 2,000 vessels for his men and a like number for supplies. He left Musa, his vizier, as his deputy during his absence. The expedition was never heard from again, and Musa became the next emperor.[1][2][3]

Trans-Atlantic travel

Ivan van Sertima formerly of Rutgers University, and Malian researcher Gaoussou Diawara, proposed that Abu Bakr II traveled to the New World.[4][5]
Most archaeologists, anthropologists, ethnohistorians, linguists, and other modern pre-Columbian scholars say that there is no evidence of any such voyage reaching the Americas, and that there are insufficient evidential grounds to suppose there has been contact between Africa and the New World at any point in the pre-Columbian era.[citation needed] For views representative of this point of view, see the considerations on the question advanced in Haslip-Viera et al. (1997), who for example note "no genuine African artifact has ever been found in a controlled archaeological excavation in the New World". See also the supporting responses in peer-review printed in the article, by David Browman, Michael D. Coe, Ann Cyphers, Peter Furst, and other academics active in the field. Ortiz de Montellano et al. (1997, passim.) continues the case against Africa-Americas contacts. Other prominent Mesoamerican specialists such as UCR Riverside anthropology professor Karl Taube are confident that "There simply is no material evidence of any Pre-Hispanic contact between the Old World and Mesoamerica before the arrival of the Spanish in the sixteenth century".[6]

A BBC article titled "Africa's greatest explorer", summarizes the controversy from the perspectives of the scholars and historians in Mali.[5]

[Meat Head]

Apples and oranges. We Africans arent really built for complex modernity. Perhaps with outside help we can have something that resembles a civilisation. We cannot build a city let alone maintain it. I dont see us blacks erecting something like America anytime soon.

The whole idea of leaving Africa alone and having white only states was a discussion that should have been had in 1700. Back then Europeans had white only nations and primitive Africans really wanted to be left alone. Now, whites and blacks are in over their heads.

[thebassist]

Quote:

Y'all talk like Africa will never be anything but a helpless pile of dirt, but I'm on the ground and I see people taking hold of their destiny and I am excited for the future. There are still a lot of problems, but we are now in a position to figure stuff out. It's fine to have supposedly insurmountable challenges. You have to wander through the desert to reach the promised land. Iron must be forged in fire. It will make us better in the long run.

It's going to be amazing. The naysayers can nay say all they like, but I believe in Africa.

Hi Thomas, I'd be interested to hear your reasoning behind this conclusion, given that I am pretty ignorant when it comes to African affairs.

I know that you yourself are situated in South Africa, do you foresee this bloom coming to fruition in your own country as well?

I remember reading an economist article on the current state of education in South Africa and it seemed quite bleak. I'll quote the online article for reference:

On the academic performance of SA students:

Quote:

Its children are behind those in poorer parts of the continent. A shocking 27% of pupils who have attended school for six years cannot read, compared with 4% in Tanzania and 19% in Zimbabwe. After five years of school about half cannot work out that 24 divided by three is eight. Only 37% of children starting school go on to pass the matriculation exam; just 4% earn a degree.

As for the state of the teachers:

Quote:

But even if there were better oversight most teachers would struggle to shape up. In one study in 2007 maths teachers of 11- and 12-year-olds sat tests similar to those taken by their class; questions included simple calculations of fractions and ratios. A scandalous 79% of teachers scored below the level expected of the pupils. The average 14-year-old in Singapore and South Korea performs much better.

On the teacher's union:

Quote:

Central to both failures is the South African Democratic Teachers Union (SADTU), which is allied to the ruling African National Congress (ANC).

The role of SADTU was laid bare in a report published in May 2016 by a team led by John Volmink, an academic. It found “widespread” corruption and abuse. This included teachers paying union officials for plum jobs, and female teachers being told they would be given jobs only in exchange for sex. The government has done little in response. Perhaps this is unsurprising; all six of the senior civil servants running education are SADTU members.

The union’s influence within government belies its claim that officials are to blame for woeful schools. Last year it successfully lobbied for the cancellation of standardised tests. It has ensured that inspectors must give schools a year’s notice before showing up (less than 24 hours is the norm in England). And although parent-led school governing bodies are meant to hold teachers to account, they are more often controlled by the union, or in some cases by gangs.

from http://www.economist.com/news/middle-eas...-education

As someone with their boots on the ground, where do you see the foundations of this new age currently?

Also in general, I'd be interested to hear some more information on the state of Rwanda as a country, and what their keys to success have been. Any opinions on Paul Kagame as a leader?

[numanist]

I will never understand the people that called my thread trolling. The thread topic has always been an earnest question of mine ever since we were forced to watch Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond. Everyone in my class was incensed that Whites were exploiting Africans and not the other way around. As for the people saying that thread had racial undertones, I say absolutely not. I've met many great people from the continent of Africa who were courteous and kind, but I've also met some that were ungrateful. I guess such is the case with every group of people. One of the most lasting memories I had growing up was going to New York. When I went to NY I tried to find a souvenir. One of the stalls on the street was selling crystal images of the NY skyline complete with the WTC.

I'll never forget that an older black gentlemen said: "Are you a Christian".

Me: Yes

Stall Owner: Well, I'm going to give you this if you promise to practice being a Christian.

I was 13 or so at the time, but that memory really stuck with me to this day. It's important to do unto others as they do unto you.

[numanist]

Apparently, we get a lot of cobalt from Africa. Cobalt is used in a lot of batteries for electronic devices and cars.

[Moma]

It's hard to sum the case in Africa since we rarely get the full picture. Every country gives you a different angle so you can see things favourably. Some countries are not yet skilled in propaganda as others and tend to show you too much of the raw truth.

What I will say is this. Every empire has its era. The Roman empire was once the most powerful empire in the world (in the West at least). Their kingdom spread all over Europe and they have their armies going out to other places to try and push the Roman culture or imposition, depending on how you want to word it.

Don't quote me on chronology but then it came to a point when Britain was the absolute shyt. Adolf started feeling himself and then America and other countries, I think Japan and possibly Brazil (but don't quote me on this, I am working from memory here) had the chance to build up themselves while the Brits were distracted and depleted fighting Adolf and his gang.

America appears to be the modern day Roman empire. Despite all this being said about Africa, I have friends from secondary school (remember I am from London) who are now currently in Africa by their own will and have no intent on going back to the West. Their standard of living is better than when they were in the UK. One of my friends is in Uganda, married and just had his first child. Another one had a very prominent job allowing him to live partially in the United States and England fully comped. He took an opportunity to move to Kenya and now head the East African division of <what he is doing>. I speak to him regularly and he absolutely loves it.

My point is this, you have to weigh up the good and the bad in every country and make the final decision for YOURSELF. Many countries like to fearmonger through the media they disperse to either scare you from leaving but when you travel, you are like 'What the fcuk?!! This place is great, they were lying!" or vice versa.

My friends in the UK are not romanticists. Very pragmatic and that line of thinking is used when making those movements. They both started families in the aforementioned countries (Uganda and Kenya).

So all this stuff about this happening in Africa etc, Asia is pretty gruesome too along with India, Europe and the Americas (Canada, USA, Caribbean, Central and South America). The bottom line is, choose your bed, make it and sleep in it. No matter where you state on this planet, the forum will never be in consensus over it being a Nirvana.

[Lance McArthur]

Did a few business trips to the continent plus work-related analysis work on numerous countries. Just some random thoughts:

1) Some countries are reasonably well-governed and do a good job at fighting corruption:

Botswana
Namibia
Rwuanda
Ghana

South Africa still benefits from an great infrastructure but is falling behind, mainly due to appalling crime rates which are worse than in many much poorer countries. Zimbabwe could be a regional economic power but as long as Mugabe is in charge, they will stagnate. Zambia has been an amazingly peaceful country with good development potential. Kenya would do much better if it wasn't for Islamic terrorism, but I'm optimistic for them as well. Ethiopia is one of the few countries in Africa with a true national identity and history despite their ethnic fragmentation.

Angola and Nigeria could be much richer than they are, if their petro-regimes wouldn't corrupt and neglect the hinterland.

Places like Somalia, Djibouti, South Sudan, DR Congo, CAR, Mali and Niger will be nightmares for generations to come, though.

2) Migration within Africa is more extensive than migration to Europe. I'm not saying that the EU shouldn't protect her borders, but it's rather fallacious to believe that of all Africans want to migrate to the West. On the contrary:

Economic "refugees" are more likely to look for work in Angola, South Africa, Nigeria, Libya, Algeria or Libya.

Besides, the vast majority of real war refugees seek shelter in Kenya, Ethiopia and countries nearby the war zones.

3) I believe most of the "nation-states" that you see today on the map will not survive in the upcoming decades. It's gonna be a long, uncertain, possibly bellicose transition in which lots of countries will disappear (my bets for that to happen are on Nigeria, in particular).

This is not going to be bad thing per se. How did Europe become so wealthy over the centuries? Not because of nation-states, I would say, as those are a relatively recent phenomenon that came up in the 19th century. Rather, city states and semi-autonomus units (Venice, Paris, Hamburg, Naples, Prague, Danzig, Kopenhagen, London, Amsterdam, etc.) were the driving forces in trade, industrialization and scientific progress.

Even though I discussed countries above, I strongly believe that the development of urban centers and economic hubs will be more important for Africa than large-scale development strategies for entire countries.

Think of:

Lagos
Luanda
Cape Town
Khartoum
Accra
Nairobi
Johannesburg

4) A few indicators that should cause optimism:

- Birth rates are going down significantly; in Botswana it's 2.8 children/woman today (20 years ago it was 6.3 children/woman or so); education for women, urbanization, increasing prosperity for the middle classes and consumer culture will accelerate the trend like anywhere else on the planet
- AIDS rates are decreasing. As I suspect, within the next 20 years we will see a vaccination against HIV which will solve the problem once and for all
- Literacy rates have been on the rise significantly; many Africans have never seen a school from inside. But smartphones and technology will help them to overcome that deficit
- The fight against female genital mutilation is gaining ground in many African countries

5) Africa is not a country but a fucking huge continent. Some parts of it will remain the hell on earth for unforeseeable time. Other parts will catch up to the rest of the world quite soon and drastically improve the quality of life for millions of people.

Nuance isn't attractive for most people. Part of being a realist also means to recognize that many things have actually improved and will continue to do so in Africa.

[Mikan]

Biltong is delicious.

[griffinmill]

I lived in South Africa from 1978 to 1995. The first 17 years of my life were spent there. Apartheid South Africa was a glorious place for the white population and we were very well insulated from any trouble in the townships. Even the media didn't report on half of what was going on.

Murder rates went up in the 70s and 80s but mainly restricted to the black community. Because black access to white areas and services was so tightly controlled, there wasn't a pervading sense of danger among the white community as there is now, and is played out with huge walls and gated communities. When I lived there, there were no walls, and burglaries and murders in white suburbs were infrequent.

Since the the of Apartheid, the "white flight" intensified. My parents left, as did millions of others. Not because the average white person was inherently racist and balked at the idea of a black government, but because of this reality: you'd be walking out of the shower one day and see someone climbing through your window.

Would you like to live like that?

South Africa has corrupt leadership and low-IQ politicians with very tribal tendencies. One of many problems is the total destruction and mismanagement of public service (blackouts are frequent).

A senior politician was on trial for rape a few years back. He admitted while testifying that he neglected to use a condom even though he knew the victim was HIV positive.

His response? "But I took a shower after".

Oh - he's the president, by the way.

Disclaimer: Apartheid South Africa was an inexcusably violent and repressive place for non-whites.

[Meat Head]

Africa needs more white immigration. Blacks cannot do it alone.

[MMM]

Triggered.

[kellyon]

(03-06-2017 03:25 AM)Meat Head Wrote:  

Africa needs more white immigration. Blacks cannot do it alone.

completely agree!

want to visit it next year...

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Lots of good thoughts in this thread (both positive and negative), but also some really wild exaggerations. I can't speak for all of Africa, but since Kenya was mentioned I'll jump in. My girl is Kenyan and I've lived there for over a year, might return in the future when Europe goes up in flames.

1. Immigration

Contrary to public opinion, most actual Africans are not that interested in moving to Europe, especially illegally. The current influx that we're getting comes mainly from North Africa, where:
A) Islam is very strong ((surprise, surprise!)),
B) people are fucked up by endless wars, revolutions and dictatorships and
C) immigrants are actively lured by cuck politicians and traitorous NGOs with promises of endless riches, legal immunity and so on.

I don't think Africa as whole fantasizes about moving to Europe like we imagine here - it's just a specific group of gimmegrants just like a vast majority of the gun violence in USA is a product of certain ethnic groups in a few major cities controlled by (((certain))) political groups. The problem is huge for sure, but it's not a racial or continental problem. It has more hope of healing than the one in France, where decades of traitorous policies and loss of national morale have brought together the worst of all ethnic groups. Which leads us to...

2. Tribalism and Nationalism

As evidenced by post-election violence and nepotism, Kenya does have a serious tribalism problem. However, that problem is not a dominating force in society, and it is likewise not the case in many African countries. Only some parts in Africa are plagued by chronic tribal violence, and even then it is (surprise, surprise!) found in areas with lots of Muslims. The continent is vast and the chronic conflicts in Nigeria or Congo or chronic clusterfucks like Zimbabwe and South Africa shouldn't reflect upon everyone there.

For all the tribal problems, Kenya also has a strong dose of nationalism to even it out. As surprising as it might sound, young nations are better equipped to deal with tribalism than old ones. As someone pointed out on page #3, yes the continent is often a tragicomic mismatch between ethnic groups and legal entities, but even in a young nation people have more in common with each other than in an old one that is just starting to get wrecked by tribalism. Unlike in cucked European countries where "everyone has a French citizenship but no one feels French", in Kenya you will see plenty of actual national emotion and symbols.

Nationalistic exhortations that would instantly be banned in Europe as "hate speech" are common in Kenya. Heck, Kenya just decided to close Somali refugee camps and told the Somalis that they have go back. There is a country-wide ban on GMO food despite the Gates Foundation's relentless lobbying, and when Obama tried to push tranny propaganda, he was politely told to fuck off. You'll see Kenyan troops in the neighboring Somalia, but not in Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq or whatever the latest globalist battleground is.

3. Corruption

Corruption is, like almost everywhere in Africa, a serious problem. Bribe giving and taking occurs at every level, from the lowest clerks asking for "tea money" to the top officials siphoning off money to get private limousines. However, the difference there is that it is driven by personal greed. It is not a system of rewards for favors to globalists (example: our Croatian cuckservative former Prime Minister Ivo Sanader took a paltry €5 million bribe to sell for pittance our national oil company worth at least €4 billion; our former Prime Minister Zoran Milanović bent over and accepted hundreds of millions in damages from rapefugees just to prove himself to his mistress Angela Merkel; our leftist politician Vesna Pusić has produced some of the harshest feminist laws in the world just to virtue-signal to the UN).

By contrast, such things in Kenya are pretty rare. Yes, the top politicans engage in corruption but at least it is self-serving corruption. They do things to enrich themselves, not because they hate Kenya. By contrast, the leadership much of the western world actively hates their own countries and is happy to undermine them free of charge.

Quote:

“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.”
- Marcus Tullius Cicero

Despite this corruption problem, it is actually easier to do business in Kenya than in Croatia. The country is less regulated and less saddled by insane laws and pork-barrel agencies. It's easier to pay a small bribe than to spend a month filing a 400-page tax report to 8 different agencies and then still end up paying a punitive fine that exceeds the value of both the tax and the bribe.

4. Crime

Crime in Africa is significantly more prevalent than in Europe (well, not so much anymore - the joke's on us!), with lots of pickpocketing and serious crimes like kidnapping, rape and armed robbery being a real danger and requiring you to A) think where and how you go and B) secure your home and possessions well. However, it is not an all-consuming scourge like the newspapers enjoy fantasizing about. As long as you take basic precautions, you'll be fine.

For the downside of increased crime, there are two surprising upsides:

A) There is no petty crime like in Europe or USA. There are no grafitti or people randomly vandalizing stuff to have fun. If you work at a honest job, you work hard at a honest job. If you work at crime, you work hard at crime. However, you never have any time to be lazy or engage in petty vice. You will never find ANTIFAs or similar loser crime groups in Kenya - there is no such thing as poor and failed individual but who somehow still has the time to go to a nice college, stay with their parents and hang around in caffes before going out to spray or beat up someone for fun. As much as we decry Africans for their lack of work ethic, life in Africa is actually more serious and focused and the divide between lawful and lawless is sharper than here.

B) Vigilante justice keeps serious crime from spiraling out of control. If you are drunk driving in Croatia and you run over two schoolgirls at a red light, you'll get a one year probation. If you kidnap, rape and strangle a female tourist in Croatia, you'll get eight years in prison minus the trial time minus the time for good behavior minus holidays from prison (yes, such a thing really exists!) and you'll be out in around two.
In Kenya, any of those will get you murdered (if you're lucky) or dismembered and burned (if you're not) by either aggrieved family members or just a random mob. If you live to see sentencing, you won't get off on cucked concepts like "mitigating circumstances" or "mental illness". If you get out due to having money, then you better also have enough for 24/7 armed bodyguards.

Quote:

"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing."
- Robert E. Howard, Conan the Barbarian

5. Character

For all the talk of crime and corruption, the typical Kenyan you meet on a street is well mannered and friendly. Strong family ties and Christian tradition that have been long lost in our parts of the world make the society surprisingly balanced and livable.

6. Conclusion

While it's fun to make fun of Africa for below-average IQ, corruption and tribalism, unlike Europe they still have a future. I predict that most of their people and countries will still exist long after we have been cucked into oblivion.

[Phoenix]

(03-06-2017 07:41 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

It's easier to pay a small bribe than to spend a month filing a 400-page tax report to 8 different agencies and then still end up paying a punitive fine that exceeds the value of both the tax and the bribe.

This is what a lot of people don't get about doing business in "corrupt" countries. If you're already getting robbed 50% of your income (which is insanity and historically extremely rare), you can barely do worse really.

So what if you have to constantly grease people instead of paying taxes via a tax bureau? It's exactly the same thing. Tax is protection money, the only difference is tax is generally higher and the prices are more clearly advertised.

I'd rather suffer a protection racket burden of 10% uncertain + 1 week of price research, than 50% for certain.

Also while informal power structures have the downside of uncertainty, they also offer the upside of they couldn't care less about "regulating" you since there's no money in that.

[numanist]

I'd be curious to find how much of are building materials and electronic components are sourced from Africa.

[PapayaTapper]

Africa exports some of the best raw materials for memes. For example

[bootyhuntah]

Superb coffee comes from Africa, actually. Haven't seen anyone mention that yet.

Early origins of coffee can be traced back to Yemen and later Ethiopia.

Africa is the birthplace of coffee as we know it.

This can be easily overlooked as being one of the most valuable commodities in modern history, in terms of residual effects on productivity and GDP.

Think of what coffee does for the bottom lines of businesses around the world. How many times has a cup of coffee saved your ass at the office after a night of staying up too late doing irresponsible shit? Fact of the matter is coffee helps people focus and get shit done. For many, its a staple ingredient for basic human functionality (myself included) in the early morning or to get you through a tough afternoon.

My favorite beans from the continent generally come from Ethiopia and Kenya followed by Burundi. One day I'll make it out there and taste the good stuff directly from the source.

[statheros]

The most beautiful women

[Paracelsus]

(06-21-2017 10:47 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

Africa exports some of the best raw materials for memes. For example

[TheOllam]

(01-25-2017 04:42 PM)TheOllam Wrote:  

Can't believe no one mentioned Wakanda, with it's largest and most valuable export being Vibranium.

[questor70]

The inner city near me is sending (black) kids to Black Panther as if it's an educational field-trip. Nice to know they are being indoctrinated into the good left-wing politics of the alt-right.

This is another example of SJW ideology, where tokenism (seeing one of your own in X role) is all that matters rather than substance.

[RexImperator]

It makes sense when you consider the purpose of "education" as not teaching facts, reasoning skills, or critical thinking and such, but rather, boosting the self-esteem of various oppressed minorities.

[Goldin Boy]

Don't see anything offensive/trollish about asking this question. Only thing is OP should be more specific seeing how Africa is a continents of 53 countries with different resources.

Two of the most influential 20th century philosophers are African. Here's a video of them discussing their theory (It's an actual Swahili phrase that means "no troubles/entanglements")

[iop890]

(03-05-2017 05:42 PM)Mikan Wrote:  

Biltong is delicious.

Droëwors too.