[BlackUniform]

Vientiane, Laos DATASHEET

Overview

Haven't seen much material on this city so I will share mine experience. Overall would not consider Laos to be great spot for people around this community but if someone wanders to this place or wants to try this should serve as some basic info.

Boring, that’s the word that comes to my mind when I think of Laos but also interesting in some ways. People are lazy as fuck, I did not find any street food before 11am. Food is generally more expensive than Thailand, Cambodia, Laos etc but still good, I was eating mostly the BBQ sticks with loads of meat. Would recommend cigarettes Johnny Walker with the same brand logo as the whiskey, were the same price but much better than what you will buy in Cambodia. Don’t be scared by cheap ($1,5) bottles of whiskey on the main market, it tastes fine and I did not get blind from that shit. Beer Lao is also good, quite cheap and big bottles.

Would recommend Vientiane mostly for visa runs or if you want to have a little break from BKK lifestyle etc. it’s near Thai border and it’s something different. Just hang out with couple of friends around Mekong river, sip beer Lao and be merry.

The nature looks pretty good, some nice mountains. Border crossing between Thailand and Vientiane is pretty good and quick but border crossing between Vietnam and Laos in the mountains is pain in the ass, cold, got stuck for at least 4 hours, bribes and shit.

Logistics

The city is pretty small, can walk basically everywhere but I would still recommend to stay around Mekong river. There is a big street that most of the things happen at. When I was there I rented shitty private room in Bangladeshi run hostel for $5/night.

Girls

Lighter skin than Thais, would guess that they got more Chinese blood than Thais, something like North Viets. Some of them of course look exactly like Thais. But overall the same SEA look with different skin tone, would not say something special about them like I would say about Vietnamese, just another little country around Thailand.

Bang

Heard that it’s illegal to have coitus before marriage but who cares, some hookers are roaming the streets after the nightfall, as well as ladyboys and kids.

Haven't been there during weekend but still went to club but everything was dead overall, some pub like places on the street stretching along the Mekong bank.

Have been hanging out with some Dutch guy from hostel the whole day drinking beer and afterward I had some hunger for pussy. Been offered by hookers that they will go to my place with me etc. I negotiated the price for fun and could get below $10.

Anyway we got together with some random Dutch guy on the street and as a trio took tuk-tuk to the club the driver proposed to us. We arrived. Fine-sized dance hall like 2km from the bank. Pretty much a cockfest, seen like 2 sets but otherwise some couples and packs of foreign guys and girls. I approached some of those girls that were on their own but after that we spotted three Lao girls with like 5 foreign guys, some of them looked good, classy and all that but we gave it a try and one of us sneaked in and started to chat with one of the chicks. It did not take long for me to realise that those guys are still betas so moments after one of us was in we were all talking with those girls. Mine started to grind on my dick and all so I thought that she will be easy. Unfortunately I had the worst looking girl from the group but I realised that after we left the club. We were with them for about an hour, did not talk much with mine, just dirty danced.

We went out, had some food. The two were cool but mine started to say some shit that I will pay her $100 after the night, it was mostly like cocky funny even from her side so I played along but did not take it seriously. We took a tuk tuk and went to the hostel. It was easy apart from the fact that she wanted me to go with her to bathroom and washed my dick and shit. So I fucked her, nothing special. Wanted to send her home but she started to say that she will take her girlfriend with her so I did not want to ruin something for the dutch guy and let her sleep there. In the morning she started to talk about the $100 I basically laughed a bit and told her to go away. She left angry. End of story.

[Deluge]

I'm going to be passing through Laos at the end of the year. I'm probably going to spend a couple days each in Luang Prabang and Vang Vieng but I've heard that Vientiane is skippable tourist wise. What do you think?

[BlackUniform]

Haven't really noticed anything great in the city, if you don't count those temples that are the same as in any other SEA country in every town. Mekong bank is quite nice but not something that I would want to get into the city for.

[RagnarLothbrok]

I love Laos. Cheap booze, amazing landscapes, tasty 1$ chicken sandwiches everywhere and some of the friendliest people in Southeast Asia. Unfortunately the girl situation is fucked up there. But I still prefer Laos over Cambodia for a quick visa run or a weekend trip.

There is nothing to do in Vientiane besides drinking but there are plenty of things to do in Vang Vieng. The tubing is really cool, even though it is much more quiet than it used to be. There are a couple of really nice viewpoints that take about half an hour to climb and offer an incredible view of the mountain range. There are also some lagoons and waterfalls worth checking out. And of course the infamous restaurants and bars where you can get all kinds of drugs mixed with food. Vang Vieng attracts a lot of Korean girls too, by the way.

[duyducivan]

I love Laos, I've had good memories in luang prabang

[Travel Museums]

Laos is super tough for quality locals just like Cambodia. If you like ugly backpackers it's heaven (I don't).

I hit pure gold in vientiene with a Lao 9 who traveled with me for weeks. Still in touch and seeing her soon for more travel. I had to go to bor penyang bar for a week straight and brave hooker lady boys and ugly western girls before I met her though. Most guys would have moved on.

When I came back to visit it was a touchy situation and her family made her get me a hotel bc the neighbor was being nosy. Though we traveled the entire country and never had an issue in guesthouses for a night or two. Mostly comes down to if a a cop thinks he can make a quick 500 off you.

Lots of Koreans in Luang Prabang too. But good luck pulling them from the night market lol. They're not partying.

I also pulled a Chinese girl who I traveled with there. And a professional french girl for a ons.

Most chicks who backpack there are not attractive. Just like cambodia.

[Cyclone]

This was the most epic datasheet in the history of RVF. My sides are gone

I was indeed in Laos for 2 weeks 5 years ago.. not once did I step foot into Vientiane. Shame cause I thought the kids were cute/adorable but somehow girls 20+ were fairly ugly. Don't forget that a lot of Vietnamese girls pour over the border which would be more easy bangs. If you want some Pocahantas type affair though get a motorbike and go there.
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[FretDancer]

Laos is a really nice country to visit, but Vientiane just sucks hard. Do not even bother staying there more than 1 day.

[Travel Museums]

Stopped off in Thakhek after leaving Cambodia. Mostly skipped over central Laos last winter. Id stopped in savannakhet for an afternoon. Thakhek has even less to see. You could take quick look while changing buses lol. A square with some french colonial architecture but nothing compared to savannakhet.

Thakhek Loop is a 500km 3 day motorbike trip mostly through khammouane Province. I'd met travelers claiming it's as good as the boliven plateau in southern Laos. Not true. While it's been paved for a few years now it's rather boring. Some caves on first day then lots of driving with no real attractions. The nam thein reservoir has a visitor center. Closed weekends but I chatted a local in a cafe who new the guy who works there. He came in on a Sat morning to give me the tour and wouldn't take a tip (gets OT since it's a foreign concession with only 25% Laos stake). The dam sells most of its hydroelectric power to Thailand.

The big attraction is konglor cave which I did last year. Buses run directly there from Vientiane. You take a boat 7km through the cave, portaging over rapids in a few spots. It's like mythical river Styx. Not to be missed.

I thought I might try a similar cave towards Vietnam called Xe Khoun (Xe Bang Fai River) that is 14km. It's only been mapped recently. Getting there is an extra 200km of dirt road. Depending on the route there are river crossings requiring putting your moto on a canoe ferry. Decided to just stick to main loop and leave cave for another trip.

My Lao girl in Vientiane is excited to see me. But I've gotten a bit annoyed. Chicks in SEA just can't seem to shake this idea that while I'm their ATM/Prince Charming they don't have to do anything to win me over.

In Cambodia I was quite sick of girls not bothering to thank me for paying. In Laos I feel the people have more honor. But the dynamic of "dating" them is still irksome.

I traveled with this girl for several weeks last winter. Took her all around southern Laos and paid for most everything. Swept her off her feet and it was a true romance. She was a good travel companion and give me awesome massages twice/day. She paid for small things and most of her own intercity buses.

When she ran out of money I sent her home on a sleeper. Now I realize why she was pissed I didn't go back to vte with her. You have to buy two tickets or you're sleeping next to a stranger lol. It's one bed for two people. The foreigners behind me coming up from Pakse were like yeah you have to buy two tickets but wait until we get going then grab an empty bed. It worked!

I say mostly a good travel companion bc this girl did one thing that really annoyed me. I ran low on cash paying for her while on boliven plateau. So I asked her for K50,000 to make sure we'd get from tat Lo to paksong. She ignored me and acted like she had no cash. So I drove to salavan to hit an ATM. I'm like ok now your turn. She's like I don't need any cash. I'm like wtf?! She watches a YouTube video much later where we are at a coffee plantation and I walked off by myself and was saying I wasn't sure I wanted to keep traveling with her. Then she texts me saying she felt stupid and she was sorry bc she knew exactly what she was doing. I was like yeah I know which is what annoyed me more than the money. I let it go bc I'm not a dick and i wanted to enjoy myself. But please don't pull that routine again.

Fast forward she's had a year to save for another trip with me. I'm in Laos again (had also come back once for pi mai festival). Her work is wrapping up and she has a month off to travel with me. I try getting her to meet me in Thakhek and she has excuses about wrapping up work, headache, cold, etc.

I let it go (but she sends me air brushed photos of herself out at family parties; uh you don't look sick to me hun). Everyone I show them too is like yeah you're unlikely to do much better than her in Laos. She's a 9. Only saw one prettier girl in the entire country and she was Thai.

Anyway she tells me I have no money maybe can't travel with you long time. I'm like you had a year of planning to save. She says she had big expenses this month. (She said same thing last February that she had paid big expenses in Jan and had little savings.)

I try asking what her daily budget for the trip is but it goes nowhere. So looks like I'll be paying again. I'll be doing so much sightseeing and moving around this trip. I'll never in one place more than a night. Lots of small towns. Making a loop around Northern Laos. Feel like it'd be dumb to dump her over chump change. But just doesn't sit well with me after going through cambodia feeling like an ATM for ingrateful locals.

Plus the annoying thing about her being in VTE is she picks me up from airport/bus station (has her own house and car at 30; upper class? sponsor?). Takes me straight to hotel. Last trip she did pay for my hotel for several days (drop in bucket compared to my airfare). So I get no time to fuck around with pipelined tinder girls. Same as last time I have half a dozen decent DTF girls in Vientiane but I feel like getting caught isn't worth losing a 9 masseuse who's trustworthy and classy enough to travel with for a month. I guess it's a quality problem but still...

[Travel Museums]

My girl picked me up at bus station in Vientiane. About 7 hours from Thakhek in a seat too small for my knees to fit properly. I advise showing up to buses early so you're not the last person onboard. Demand more leg room if they sit you in a shit seat. As we went on they put plastic seats in the aisle to accommodate new pickups. Forgot about how ridiculous it gets on Laos buses lol.

Banged her out. She's insisting I use condoms bc "You have girl in every country". Spent a day in Vientiane visiting her family. Hit the night market and had a "date" with a Tinder match. Almost missed the sleeper to Phonsavan. She only let me hold her hand but I guess next time I might hit it.

Payed for my girls ticket on the sleeper 150,000K. She was ready to pay herself probably should have let her. Set up a bad dynamic for trip. Thankfully bus wasn't crowded and I snagged the entire large family back area and inflated my camping air pad. This is indispensable for shitty beds in Asia. It was a bumpy 10 hour ride through mountains and you arrive early in morning in Phonsavan. I got the astro lite air pad with horizontal baffles from REI. Rolls up to size of a couple soda cans. Does make it hard to cuddle at night as you're on a different level than girl on bed.

Xieng Khouang Province has 4 days or so worth of attractions if you're willing to rent a moto at 80,000-100,000K per day. I'd recommend spending at least a night in Muang Kham and trying to rent a motorbike there. The hot springs nearby are nice but it kinda ruins the relaxation making a two hour drive back to Phonsavan. The driving back each night in twilight is dangerous and cold in the mountains. Plus left me fried each night. Thankfully my girl gives really great massage.

Don't stay at Kong Keo as recommended in LP guide. They doubled their prices and didn't change the rooms or service. Not comfortable and mosquito nets fall down every night. WiFi was unusably slow. Cheaper places on main strip closer to restaurants. Switched to Nice Guesthouse slightly cheaper at 80,000/night. Kicked my girl out one night when she tried a power play and she looked at a room in place across street that rents the motos and said it was nicer for same price (its where all bus drivers seem to stay).

Funny story. We eat every meal at same lao restaurant and order same dish called latna everyday. Basically shredded meat on rice with some onion. If we also ordered mixed vegetable dish they'd add some to the latna. If not it came with no vegetable. Cheap place. So one night I'm in the mood for a steak. Point to "beef steak" on menu. Have my girl translate that I want it medium raw. They come back with the latna + another dish of latna with no rice or vegetable.

WTF? They insist one dish with no rice is beef steak. I'm like how can that be steak when it's exactly the same as the latna next to? The waitress just refuses to admit it's not a steak. So I get manager over and show here google search pics of beef steak. She's like I have that you come back tomorrow. I'm like uh no I wanted it an hour ago. This mutton is inedible. Besides why would I pay 3 times the price for the same dish lol!

It goes on like that back and forth and I tell my girl we're not paying for what we didn't order. Her contribution is to pay for dinner and little things. But she gets nervous, pays, and walks out. So I look stupid showing pics and arguing with staff when they already got paid for it. I walk out and catch her halfway down the street. It turns into this big spat with her giving me silent treatment and refusing to come into room. So I put her shit outside then shes pounding on door causing a scene. Eventually resolved but reminded me how annoying it can be to travel with women.

Heading to Houphan Province where I'll stay in Sam Neau and make some day trips to Vieng Xia. Even daytime it's cold and you need an insulated jacket if you're riding a moto at top speed. Then you start sweating as soon as you stop.

Most of the sights here are small ethnic villages, caves, plain of jars (archaelogical sites with huge stone coffins). Definitely bring a girl with you if you can. Slim pickings up here.

Learned theres an elephant festival in syanbuli province mid february. will try to hit that on my loop. Was intending to start this trip in Nov in Surin Thailand for their elephant roundup but it was cancelled (subdued) due to kings death.

[Travel Museums]

Took bus to Sam Neua in Houaphan Province. Wanted to see the Pathet Laos caves that housed the communist politburo 1964-73. For nine years the CIA pounded the shit out of Laos from the air. It's known as the "Secret War" since it was hidden from public and congress.

The cave tour is the most professional you'll get in Laos. Next day had some time to kill until bus so rented a scooter to see a waterfall and Hintang an ancient megalithic site. Ran out of gas and had to sisophon a pint in a small village. Barely made it back for murderous bus ride to luangprabang province.

Nong Khiaw is a great place to chill out. It's touristy but far less so than Luang Prabang city which is 3 hours by bus south. There's not much todo in town unless you like hiking. A few caves and waterfalls. The 100 Waterfalls I did today is a cascade I did today where you climb up the travertine for an hour actually hiking through the waterfall. Tours go for 400,000 but you can meet people st the boat dock and negotiate to split a 300,000 boat. Got lucky and we split it 8 ways. There's no road access so you travel down Ou River.

The scenery here is amazing with a cloud layer forming overnight so the karst outcroppings look like floating mountains at sunrise from a nearby peak viewpoint. Sunset equally amazing. Some of the best views in Asia.

Also surprised two really good Indian restaurants in town. Try to stay in a bungalow on the river. The view is worth an extra 20,000K!

If following the north loop I recommend stopping a day in Vieng thong (muang heim). It's hot springs are undeveloped. But it's the access point for night safari and tiger treks in phouey lou/nam et national protected area. It breaks the bus ride into two 5 hour connections instead of one 10 hour ride. My Monica had 17 people crammed into it and several were vomiting as we bumbed our way through windy mountain roads.

[Beyond Borders]

Hate to be a dick yet again (and I see OP is already banned), but first off, if you went to Vientiane and walked away with the impression that the you can "pretty much walk everywhere," you were in the downtown foreigner area and you never got any further. Great job – you visited the same ten block radius as every other clueless visitor and walked away with the conclusion you'd seen the entire city...

Listen, it takes a good 20 to 30 minutes to drive out of town on a motorbike (when you're already well out of the tourist center), and even then you'll find plenty of local bars, pubs, and clubs scattered about in the dusty suburbs (hell, that's when shit really starts even getting good) - so no, you cannot "pretty much walk everywhere."

It really gets old seeing this misinformation in datasheets over and over on the forum from guys who spend 3 days in a place, never go anywhere past the central tourist area, and then walk away acting like they are some type of authority on the city or qualified to make a verdict on anything at all.

I'm no expert on the city either, but I have stayed in Laos for months at a time on multiple trips over the past ten years, often in Vientiane, and last year I even lived in a half Laotian, half thai friend's home for a month while staying there (he's married to a gorgeous ex TV star there, arranged marriage). We went to about four weddings while I was there, one in the countryside out of town and three much more high end - at each I was the life of the party just because I was a foreigner at a local wedding, and as always there were plenty of beautiful, big breasted girls - many throwing very keen looks.

We also did quite a bit of clubbing, and as usual, I was generally the only foreigner to be seen – because as usual, foreigners simply don't know where the clubs are at or are too intimidated to go inside if they don't see people who look just like themselves.

In my ten years in Asia I've seen foreigner after foreigner come blasting through Vientiane on a drunken visa run, or hung over from Viang Vieng, not bothering to put out any effort to see the place aside from walking around the same exact Westernized area, eating some Italian food, and jettisoning back to Thailand as fast as possible - before brashly declaring the place is not worth more than a night of your time. Every other foreigner is saying it, so sheesh, it must be worth repeating, right?

I say these people have no imagination. Give me Vientiane over Vang Vieng any day of the week. The place is far from boring unless you are the most boring of travelers. Let's start with the nightlife. Yes, at first glance it seems quiet, but it's a Southeast Asian city, and like any Southeast Asian city there are clubs all over the place that are most definitely NOT in your guidebook or even on wikiletsallgotothesameplaces. Most of which have zero foreigners in them and that very often go until early hours of the morning, curfews be damned.

There are beer bars with cute girls (of varying quality and sophistication, of course) staffing them all over the city and deep into the outskirts, and the food is cheap and fresh and fucking delicious. Anyone who has ever been to Laos knows the beer is the best in Southeast Asia and the pride of the country. Never have I seen a country take such pleasure in drinking beer outside of Germany. Even if you can't find a proper club going off there are private parties and holidays used as excuses to drink beer all day, every day (hence the laziness of a lot of the people lol).

Like Cambodia, it's not a place to everyone will be able to "get." If you're the type of guy who wouldn't have traveled back in the old days when traveling somewhere was actually difficult and not accessible to even the fattest, laziest, most pampered broad in the west - you probably won't like the place. Sure.

But if you like edgy adventure, on the other hand, and to actually get out elbowing up with the locals (rich or poor), and don't mind actually having to work for some quality tail, I think Vientiane would be a great place to live for the location independent. One cool thing about it is that even though many places are quite primitive and simple, the modernization in Vientiane is quickly spreading past the center, and the foreign hand in the local hospitality business is quite heavy. Thus, the foreign cuisine scene is epic in comparison to many Southeast Asian cities of a similar size, and these days, even though you're essentially in a frontier country, you can still have the luxuries of the West whenever you want them. Or you can hop over the river to Thailand for anything you can't find - locals with money often party over the river when they want to get out a bit.

So, anyhow, I can sit in a nice air-conditioned coffee shop getting work done, and then just decide I want to change centuries and walk around the corner to sit in a dirt floor restaurant and pound beers with low class Laotians, eating barbecued chicken and sticky rice with my fingers. It's fucking great, and if you don't think so, sure, go back to Bangkok and stick to Sukhimvit.

Laotian women look very Thai but are known to have much larger breasts and general curviness. To say they are somehow unattractive is a ridiculous notion, and if you actually had the game, class, and patience to access the upper end (not saying I necessarily do, especially the patience part), you wouldn't say that for a second. But even many of the lower to middle class women can be quite pretty – the ones who work in LOCAL beer bars are, as usual, a smart place to place your energy because while they aren't generally prostitutes, they do tend to be a bit more liberal and open-minded (and attractive). Same with girls working in higher end hotels and foreigner restaurants and what-not.

In fact, most Thai men who've been there or anywhere near there will tell you that they find Laotian women to be extremely beautiful – even preferring them to Thai women. If more guys who visit Southeast Asia would stop and actually have a conversation with a Thai male in the country, they could go ahead and hear this opinion for themselves. It's really not that hard – Thai men like discussing foreign pussy as much as we do.

To go further, many Thai men in the know travel to the country just to chase tail, as they are well received by the women, and the smartest ones often choose them for wives because they aren't as modernized and ruined as Thai women.

More pleasant and submissive. And "mee nom yai,” of course.

On top of that, once you're married to a Laotian woman, you could still possess a lot of sexual freedom if you played the cards right - gender dynamics are still very old school and you'd be blown away by the shit my Thai/Laotian buddy gets away with, even with his somewhat famous wife.

I'm not sure of the current status on fornicating with local women - last time I was there, a local guy told me it's no longer illegal. I'm not sure if he knew what he was talking about, but either way, I've definitely banged my share of women there and have yet to experience any issues. I've heard of guys having problems with the police, but these were always guys making a big spectacle of themselves and pissing people off.

On my last trip, I banged a hot deaf mute girl (I've got a thing for the mastery of body language many deaf girls possess lol) on a blanket on the floor while her gay friend sat on the bed grinning like a kid in a candy store. Not for everyone, sure, and one of my stranger bang experiences, but that's neither here nor there, and drunken me for one thought it was pretty fucking hilarious. On the other end of the spectrum, some rich girl snuck me into the backdoor of the mansion where she lived with her parents on my very first trip to Luang Prabang.

That being said, while I think it'd be an awesome place to live with some of the funnest, most hospitable people you'll meet anywhere, it's of course not a very good place for a player to live. Much like Cambodia, it's better to have longer-term girlfriends. Sexual norms are loosening, and there are sluts like anywhere, but you won't find a bunch of “normal girls” jumping on your dick right away. Laotian women are generally conservative and the place is small enough to get a reputation fast.

You could be a player there, and some white guys do, but I'd be lying if I told you that you'd do as well as in a good-sized city in Thailand. It would also take time to understand which “normal” girls were the looser type you could push it with.

If you're looking for a wife or long-term girlfriend, on the other hand – most of us aren't, but some are - I think it's a great place to live for the location independent, with a lot of opportunity in the air, and you could do a lot worse than a traditional Laotian woman at home keeping the fire burning and the kids fed. Again and again, Thai men warn me about marrying a Thai woman. Yet again and again Thai and Laotian men alike tell me that I SHOULD marry a Laotian.

It's also a very good place to network with moneyed locals – like Cambodia, you can make great contacts very fast if you know how to carry yourself.

One quick note on Laotians – at least until they get drunk, they can be a little more difficult to open up than the Thais. You'll often get completely ignored even if posted up in a local spot, especially if they are people with money, but as usual, a few brews will loosen them up, so just wait it out.

Once a Laotian likes you, you'll see how fun-loving and generous they are. I remember one time spending a lot of time at this restaurant in the city, schmoozing the old lady who ran the place and trying to hit on the staff and her daughter, and I could have sworn her older husband, who had a position in local government, really did not like me. Then one day just like that he invited me to the SEA games at Vientiane's new (at the time) stadium and bought me a ticket and we were driving around in his SUV pounding Beer Laos like good buddies and talking business.

As is usual, lower class locals with less experience of the world will be even more hospitable and warm - don't be surprised if you're at a temple party or some other shebang and one of them decides to sit there right at your side, blabbing at you in his own language, whether you understand or not, and cheersing you the entire night. A bit of a game kill, but it is what it is.

A notable difference as compared to Thailand is how they often share one glass among the entire table and pass it around drinking one at a time, and to me that's a strong indication of just how alive the communal spirit is there. Once you are in with the Laotians, you are very much in.

And of course it's a great place to get out in the countryside for some motorbiking, caving, or anything else outdoorsy. Landmines are obviously a problem, but if you stick to the beaten territory there is some beautiful shit to see.

If anyone tells you to give Laos a miss, I suggest you give THEM a miss – unless you yourself don't want to put out the time and effort to experience something unique and old school. A lot of guys won't be able to handle it, but for me it's another one of those places where if I completely surrendered to my more carnal nature I could lose myself forever to the simple things in life and die a very happy and contented man.

[Putin Closes]

BB your datasheets are legendary but i feel its a case of "tourist" vs "digital nomad". In this case its not whether to give Laos a miss, but an issue of time management. Most travelers are NOT nomads working out of their laptop hopping from place to place, and as a result have an extremely limited amount of time to visit and travel.

Yes if you have only a couple days, your gonna do the exact things and probably live in the exact same areas, this is pretty much true in every country. Now for most people on this forum, I'd say OP's thread would be extremely applicable.

I feel like you can meet strangers in pretty much any country and have the exact same type of experiences you are describing. People in general are friendly, I've woken up in my fair share of random couches in Europe.

Living in any country is ideal, but not many people are planning to live in Laos, not when Bangkok has every imaginable creature comfort and tons of hot Thai women. And the girls from what I can experience in Thailand are much more submissive and "shy", very pleasant to talk to compared to spoiled EA girls. The find thai guys fleeing Thailand for Laotian girls is a bit shocking (perhaps these are the ones who are lower middle class and in Laos they are now "upper-middle").

I think when people say give Laos a miss, they aren't dissing the country or city, its just not good for a quick bang trip (which much of the forum seems to be about).

No city is too big, in BKK a girl I met at Demo messaged me saying I asked out two of her friends plus her. So I imagine being a player is the same, less aggressive, more hide under the radar.

In any case everyone has their own desired style of comfort, just because a man wants to stay with first world comforts isn't the end of the world.

You really should have your own thread with sheets on each city, the stories you post are quite the pleasure to read.

[Beyond Borders]

I appreciate what you're saying, Putin, and I guess in a sense you're right. My beef is not so much with the three day trips as it is with the going on a three day trip and then feeling qualified to draw big conclusions or provide accurate data.

I'm not a big data sheet guy as it is, but they seem much more valuable to me when someone who has spent considerable time in the area posts the type of Intel a guy on a three day trip can use to get right into the heart of the action and enjoy the real scene, like they'd been there longer and knew the scoop already (not that my post provides that, given I didn't offer any location names). Otherwise might as well hop on wikitravel and get the same ole "not much to do here other than pass through" routine. I mean, if we're not going any deeper than the guidebooks Intel-wise then what exactly is the point?

I appreciate Op's eagerness to share, and his Bangkok thread will not soon be forgotten, but given the depth of his experience in Vientiane he should have been posting to ask questions about the place - not creating a "data sheet."

I'll also say that I often have these more in depth, off the track experiences my first few days in a country. And both of those smashes I mentioned were first nights in town. So while the ability to go deeper immediately may take time to cultivate, i think a lot of guys could just hold themselves to a higher standard and try harder to get out there - or not bitch and blame it on the city when they just see ugly pros and ladyboys.

Furthermore, guys saying a city is only worth a day (I've heard it off the forum a lot too, hence why it bothers me so much) because they only had a few days to see it and didn't really get out there just seems off the wall to me. If you don't have time to dig your heels in, fair enough, but I think to then write off the entire place, or encourage others to do so, based on that extremely limited view is very shortsighted.

I also think the forum is a bit more mixed than the three day to a city crowd. The majority of guys I've met in person are spending months if not years in single locations, and for various reasons, Bangkok doesn't do it for everyone always. So if anyone has some extra time and wants something more, I'd just say don't pay too much attention to the usual story about Vientiane because there's definitely a lot more than meets the eye. My hope is that my post will encourage others to dig deeper.

Thanks for your compliments, though, and I'll try to keep your points in mind in the future. I know I can be a bit of a prick about these things sometimes.

[Travel Museums]

I got to thinking about the comparison of Laos and Cambodia and why I like Laos more. It came together for me after seeing the caves in vieng xia.

Laos had the same socialist politicos since the 1950s and after 1973 the country started rebuilding with.

In Cambodia they had the interdiction of the Khmer Rouge. Which contrary to what I was taught in social studies class lasted way longer than 1975-1979. Not only did it interrupt the political continuity but completely destabilized the country.

Anyway... took a boat an hour further up Nam Ou river to muang Ngoi Neua. No real road access to town. So like 4,000 islands it feels very rural. And similarly is a great place to chill out. Feels much less touristy than nong Khiaw even though there's a lot of tourists around. Really enjoying the nature walks to small villages with my girl.

Not going to take the 5 hour trip to muang khua in phongsali. Will alter my loop to head for Luang Prabang and saiyabori's elephant festival on 17th.

Even met another Lao-foreigner couple here. The rainbow gh has a dinner buffet run by Swedish guy and his Lao wife. 30,000K all you can eat. 25 for breakfast.

[Patriarch]

I have a trip to Laos planned later this year, thanks for the info guys.

[Travel Museums]

Man it's been cold and overcast last few days in Luang Prabang Province. The swidden agriculture is starting up too. Slash and burn agriculture up north makes traveling in the north unpleasant by march.

Oh and I guess the guesthouse with buffet breakfast and dinner is not rainbow. Keep forgetting to ask their name. Plus there's a copycat Lao guy across the street at breakfast. Support the international couple!

Last night was Bukha Masa festival at local Wat. It's nice being with a Lao. She prays and circumambulated the temple with monks and villagers. Allholding flowers, alms bowls, candles.

Got food poisoning last night too. Shit my brains out all night and morning. Avoid the small coconut pancake things on street here.

[Travel Museums]

Interesting week finishing my loop of central Laos. Elephants, an anniversary, and a cuckolded boyfriend.

Ooh baby this is gonna be good! It's a long post so grab a coffee. Maybe a sandwich.

I'd really appreciate feedback. I know you guys have been in my position. It's hard to be objective.

I feel like I'm in control of this situation. But tonight I could easily be in a Lao jail. Or catch an STD.

In short turns out my Laos 9 is a money girl. Well kinda. It's complicated.

I figured as much. I'm not phased. And still traveling with her.

She's great company. Never complains. Helps with bags. Decent translator. Always smiling. Defers all decisions to me. Near perfect travel companion.

We're cruising up the Mekong on slow boat. She just finished giving me an impromptu pedicure as I write this.

I still had to punish her. She's now paying her own way 50/50. No more subsidizing this "poor Lao girl". She fucked her game up. And it puts us both at risk.

Her current boyfriend is a beta blue pill NGO guy in Vientiane. I quickly picked up on their relationship. I ignored it like a good lover should.

His calls got more frequent to the point of being nonstop. It was only a matter of time before he became a loose cannon. She thought she could handle it. But her game is weak. I had to take control of the situation.

This is a communist country after all. Their are laws against foreigners even being alone in the same room with a local. Beta says he knows the police chief. And she was dumb enough to give him our rough itinerary.

She told him she was traveling for a month with two nieces. He bought it. She didn't tell her parents anything.

Her two cousins knew. They're a bestie triumvirate. I think they work as a team. She's the bait. They are the accomplices.

I had less than 24 hours in VTE. Just enough time to brunch with them. The English speaker is even asking me about my girls in other countries. I'm like common ladies. Don't play a player. We all know what's going on here.

Not sure how much I'm being vetted and for what purpose. Turns out her 70 year old Lao-French sponsor is on his deathbed back in France. They see I'm traveling all over the world and not working.

Last year I returned for Pi Mai. I met her parents, brothers, extended family, etc. I wanted to go to Luang Prabang which has parades. But she poo pooed that.

So she paid for my hotel stay in VTE. But I was quickly sleeping over her house. It was no secret what was going on.

Everyone accepted me with open arms. Her family held two separate Baci Ceremony. Not for me, but Lao New Year. Still I was honored to be included. One for her immediate family and one for around 60 of her extended family.

They were all really nice to me. We had several parties. Everyone treated like a me r for the family.

Her noisy neighbor finally got involved and made phone calls. He'd watch us pull in every night. Probably heard her coming hard through the walls too.

It reached her dad through the grapevine that I was staying nights in her home. He advised her to get me out before a cop came looking for a bribe.

Still they remained super nice to me. Then again I don't speak Lao. Not sure if it was about preserving a meal ticket or genuine hospitality?

Beta says the parents hate foreigners. That they were indifferent, even rude to him. Even after he made it known he'd planned to marry her. Maybe his personality is off-putting?

Maybe they parents are part of the scam? Both the beta bf and I deduce the sponsor bought the parent's house too. It seems well above their means. You can't argue with math.

I'm still not sure how I was introduced. More than a random tourist or friend. It was obvious we were a couple. It was made known to them we were banging.

Yet still no animosity. I never say much. Just smile and wave, boys.

Yes a lot of foreigners never come back. Or come back a few times before getting bored. So I planned my third visit in 6 months. But it turned into 8 before I arrived back in Laos.

I was maybe, supposed to show up in November. Told her I'd try my best to make it after rainy season. We could enjoy the boat races. But more likely I'd arrive in December.

Had to take care of things in New York and Los Angeles. Then I'd be free for a nice long trip the entire winter.

I wanted to start in Cambodia. Last winter I started off in Chengdu. Working my way south through Yunnan with a Chinese MLTR.

Hit Laos by CNY. By March I was in Champasak. But it was too hot to continue south into Cambodia. I should have started there and followed warm weather north.

So after that trip I crossed to Thailand. (Way cheaper to fly to BKK from inside Thailand.) Banged Isan girls in Ubon for a week. Then Tinder mini-marathon bangs in Bangkok.

Laos knew I had other girls. When I left for Thailand she implored me "just use condoms". I told her she could date too. She said it's different for girls. Even wept our final embrace in the airport. It was really touching.

In Tokyo I stayed with my Japanese MLTR. Hit some festivals in Izu Islands and explored Miura Peninsula. Then headed back to Laos for Pi Mai as mentioned.

Rest of the year was a flurry of travel. We kept in touch. She changed her Line & Whatsapp several times. Excuses were she was dumb and got locked out or smashed her phone.

On Facebook she liked literally every single one of my posts. Everyday. For the entire 8 months away! However I noticed she had two accounts like me (actually I have three hehe).

She gave me regular shit tests. Easy to pass. Constant guilt trips. Easy to dismiss with minor reassurance. Still it was annoying and irksome. Meanwhile she's painting herself as a saint patiently waiting for my return.

I postponed in November. Arrive to Cambodia December. I noticed she posted a meme photo about being single. I ignored it. Instead offered to fly her to Phnom Penh to meet me.

She claimed to be scared of international travel. But during the months away I'd seen photos of at least a few (sponsored?) trips to Thailand.

I figure just as well. I'll be free to bang Cambodia. Her loss.

Turns out around this time she started steady dating another guy in Vientiane. He met her on badoo. The Beta.

I met her in Bor Pen Yang Bar (both such wonderful places for wholesome girls). I figure she had a sponsor and maybe she only turned a few tricks a year.

Or was just out for good looking foreigner cock on Valentine's. After all I was able to SNL her without spending a nickel. She insisted on paying for everything.

Apparently my existence was entirely kept from Beta. Imagine his shock. His hot "girlfriend" has a hot lover.

So now when he isn't crying his heart out he's busy calling her parents, friends, etc doing his best to ruin her reputation. Even texting me. I spoke to him on phone too.

It wasn't hard to make him my buddy. He'd initially felt me out on social media. Sent a few friendly texts admiring my work. I was nonreactive. He escalated with insulation before going full tilt "You're fucking my GF".

Are you sure it's the right girl? Hmm. Wow. A love triangle. How could this be? So I slowly/quickly grab the frame away.

Let him know shoe was on other foot. We'd just celebrated our one year anniversary on Valentine's Day. She's actually MY girlfriend, hehe.

Now he sees me as a bigger victim. He feels even worse. He texts me screen shots of her messages.

It's great because he speaks Lao. He also asked questions I didn't. So he knew quite a bit more than me.

I use this information to game both him and her. She's still hiding the whole story from me. Her act is so good!

For instance: Her frame is she never even met this guy. Just Facebook friends. Her act is near flawless. She holds up under duress of questioning.

Even when I drop truth bombs she barely broke character. I got a split second of a true micro-expression. Then she was right back to crocodile tears and trying to embrace me.

While she was with me she's texting him bullshit:
"I love you too much"
"I miss you too much"
+ Emoticons
"Kiss Kiss"

It's word for word, emoticon for emoticon, the same shit I'd get from her over last 8 months.

Of course I'm game aware. I have abundance. Whether or not I play along. My skin really isn't in the game.

I do confess to licking her slit. Common she's a 9 with some sweet pussy. I usually get careless after awhile and start banging it raw. She squirts all over me like a fountain, too.

Funny thing is this guy knew more than me. He speaks Lao. He told me all about her sponsor over the phone. He was AWARE. More so than me!

I had only figured as much. But I didn't care. Secretly I think it's great. She's smart enough to fleece someone else. I don't need to worry about taking care of her. I can just reap the benefits. Good personality, great company, hot sex, professional massage, no commitments.

The good quality of her massages alone are suspect. She claims to have "learned from a friend". Yeah right!

Ok, so he's not FULLY aware bc he doesn't know about me being an MLTR. But he knew way more than me about the sponsor.

Yet he's still running around Vientiane introducing himself as the fiancée? Yikes!

Is he gaming me?

Or does he really want to marry this girl? A girl he met 3 months ago on badoo?! He thought they were going to have a baby...

To me this information was a long time coming. We had headed back down Ou River after chilling out several days in Ngoi Neua.

In Nong Khiaw we relaxed for Valentine's Day at bungalow on the river. Got a nice long massage from my girl with happy ending. Then some more afternoon delight.

Took a sunset hike up the Phadeng Lookout. Got some truly amazing photos of her and the both of us embracing.

Then hit Luang Prabang for a few more romantic days. Got even more dramatic video of her dressed up traditional doing Tak Bat at dawn.

Not to mention shooting a sex video one night. By this point her boyfriend was calling nonstop. I start humping her to the ringtone.

She starts recording, sets phone on nightstand, plays with my cock. Big cocky smirk across her face.

She's lifting me up doing angel. I'm motor boating her tits. Beta is calling nonstop. We're both laughing.

I'm on video like it's your boyfriend (its her second phone thats ringing). She's denying. I'm like it's Beta. Ha! I'd seen the name two weeks ago when I used her phone to call guesthouses. Every few days since I borrow it to make reservations. I could see she'd chatted him for 20 minutes.

She's playing half dumb, half naughty girl. Next few days we watched the video over and over. Again laughing our asses off each time.

But by Sainyabuli I began to worry. No guy is this stupid. He knows she's at the Elephant Festival. So she's trying to hide from the TV cameras. Of course they want to interview me bc I'm a foreigner.

Then we're both up on an elephant right up front for the closing ceremony. I'm sure he's watching it all live. Because I immediately start getting texts from him.

So it's gotten a bit annoying. I didn't bargain this guy into the equation. I'm not gonna subsidize her trip then have to sneak around bc of him. And have him stalking me too.

So Christmas is over. It's back to business. I had already broke my secret society rules a few days before. I posted a bunch of photos of her on Instagram and a few on Facebook.

They were just so goddamn beautiful. Had her dressed in ethnic minority costume at the loom weaving. I legit wanted to share them. I knew it was going to make several girls jealous.

Immediately two MLTRs stopped talking to me. But that was in the cards for them anyway. May actually jealous ploy them with it. Not sure I want to.

My Lao girl was like yeah I know you have other girls in other countries. I try to understand and accept it. You're that kind of man. But you don't post photos so it's ok. If I have to see their photo it's not OK.

So basically women can ignore/compartmentalize indecency so long as it's discreet. They need to be able to ignore it. Help them do it.

Or don't.

By this point she's been talking on the phone to a boyfriend in Laos every night. It's usually just 20 min while I'm in the shower. She was going outside at first. Then staying inside but shooshing me or hanging up if I talk.

I don't speak Laos. Surprisingly it was still pretty easy to understand what was going on. I subtly let her know that I knew. Not that it was perfectly OK with me, but I'm a realist. You do what you gotta do. I'll do what I have to do.

Still I felt she was crossing the line at times. A few nights into our first stop in Phonsavan she tried to grab the frame. She walked out, gave me silent treatment, refused to acknowledge me, or come into room. All over some minor restaurant bullshit (Laos don't like confrontation.) She sits in courtyard talking on phone to him.

Oh hell no. I put her shit outside and lock the door. She's pounding. I open. So now your ready to talk. Go ahead. She's dumbfounded. Tries to wait me out. Nope. Click.

She goes to another guesthouse but doesn't get the room. Comes back and waits in lobby bc our laundry is being done together. We have to separate it.

Here I fucked up. Well kinda. I'm practical over alpha. I wanted my massage and an early start in the morning. Walk her back to room.

She's not giving me much besides some tears. Bounces ball back to me. "Up to you"
Hmm ok fuck her hard, squirt her, massage, and we're in bed.

One telling thing: She was really shocked that I kicked her out. She was legit in tears. "No one ever do that to me". She repeated t a few times to herself. I remember thinking damn how many guys has your routine worked on?

Fast forward to this past V Day. Our one year anniversary. She hates how we met. Wants to fabricate a story. She insists she never goes to bars. Let alone the most notorious for escorts in Laos. Yeah right!!

I picked her up one year ago at Bor Pen Yang bar in Vientiane. I'd been having sundowners there with other tourists from my hostel. We went several nights and it was always ladyboys and obvious bar girls.

She stuck out bc she was in a group of three (more) normal looking girls. She wasn't beat-up looking like a typical SEA skank.

Quite the opposite. She was a real stunner. Slim. Elegant. Soft spoken. Reserved. Poised. But still shy and innocent.

Her English wasn't great but good enough. Her cousin's was better and she helped translate. Story was cousin had been married to a French guy and lived in France a year but now divorced. Story changed later. Was told I must have misunderstood. Sure, sure.

The hook was too easy. We venue changed a few times. She had a car and we drove separate from friends. Had her stop at my hotel to grab something so she saw my room and intentions were clear. A few hours later we were back there banging.

Next day she drove me around sightseeing. I then took her down south for a few weeks. We went to Konglor Cave together. Lost my wallet and had it returned in Savannakhet. Enjoyed the Tak Bat at Wat Phu Festival. Zipped around Boliven plateau on a multi day motorbike loop.

Truly romantic trip full of ancient culture, festivals, adventure, waterfalls, sex. Felt like we were falling in love. Well as much as two people like us can.

With her money almost out she got on a Pakse sleeper back home. Then I banged a bunch of Isan 7s. I'm cheat. And a scoundrel.

Sure she paid for some of her stuff. I was paying all the big stuff like hotel, bike, etc. I'd be paying for it anyway. A few times I may have payed her admissions but I felt her daily massages more than compensated.

I knew she was hiding things from me. I've been around the block. Traveling better part of a decade. I had an older divorcee in CT sponsor me in college. Car, cash, weekends at the lake house. I'm not an idiot.

A girl her age and beauty with her own house and car in the capitol? From a poor dirt village? (A village we passed on motorbike and she refused to stop and show me.) It's not impossible, but...

She took off work for several weeks at the drop of a hat to travel with me. She did it again this year.

Sure we had more planning. But what kind of a job offers that flexibility? She initially told me she buys things from weavers and sells it in the market. She did have a loom in her garage with a half done textile.

Now her story has changed. She makes licenses with her cousin. Oh cool! Can I get one! I want it to say boob inspector. For the beaches...

So should I keep her around?

I probably will. None of this surprises me. In a way I like her more.

Letting her know that I know supports my poly frame. I feel less guilty. She's now paying her own way too.

I put my foot down on money. She's giving me bullshit about her bank doesn't work anywhere by Vientiane. Clearly a ploy.

Never trust a woman.

Our trip could be several months of travel. I'm not due stateside until mid April. Not sure how she planned to keep this guy on the hook that long.

We were supposed to hit Thailand and China. Maybe even Myanmar. Though she's been rushing me since this happened.

I can tell part of her wants to be back home doing damage control. Fuck that. Let her minion cousins run clean up crew. We planned this trip for months.

She's cut this dude off. He's now messaging me asking to talk to her. He called me several times last night. As I'm takin sunset photos of her on Mekong! I didn't answer.

His texts flip flop between love lorn and pure hatred. He's talking to her family.

The cousin tried to tell him to wait me out. Because I can't stay in the country. Eventually she'll be home and he can take her back.

Then next morning he'll text that he talked to cousin again. And now she admits our girl is a prostitute frequenting Bor Penyang. She has sex for money. He's going to get an HIV test.

This isn't a one time thing. We're on a long trip. I expect her to take precautions for both our safety.

Honestly lady, you tell me the condoms are for your protection? Meanwhile your a bar hooker? I gave you benefit of doubt being upper class or sponsored by a cuckold.

You climb on top raw when I can't jizz? After all you do eat ass. Do your job and do it well!

How did she expect to keep him from finding out? He was asking to speak to the niece: she put random Laos girls on the line for a second.

He asked to see a pic: she sent him random ones of just the niece. She even sent him the pics I took of her (edited to look like a stunner).

Her pics usually look like Rainman took them. All crooked and off center. Then all of a sudden shes posting professional photos on top of mountains?!

Maybe she doesn't care? Because she's got other guys too? Or can easily go on Badoo. She's been active there in the last week according to Beta.

I can't say I care. Most of the time she's massaging me I'm on Tinder and Badoo myself. I'm sure she sees it. She's walking on my back.

Maybe she isn't as savvy as I'd thought. Hot girls don't travel like this. They get flown around and stay in hotels. Easier to cover up.

At Pi Mai I grabbed some photos she took of me off her phone. I see a fat bald Arab guy took her to Luang Prabang. Not a sheik, but probably an expat biz guy. Photos are of him, her, fancy double bed hotel room. Their legs touching in water at the falls. Hands barely holding while walking.

I didn't ask. Not my business. Seemed before she had met me. Figured she just used him. Probably got away without even giving him sex. Half the time I wouldn't bang my old lady either. Just go eat and dumb shit like that.

Does make me think twice about raw dogging her. But it's so much better. A bonus of this drama is I'm back to popping in her mouth.

After my Elephant Festival interrogation I bent her over and took her hard. Gave her my load. Then kicked her out.

Told her there was a bus to Vientiane. She asks you want me to go? I zing her "Up to yououuu" in her same sing song Bullshit tone. Two can play!

She just goes and gets a room above me. After a nap I head upstairs. Made her call beta in front of me. Apologize to him. Tell him she lied. She doesn't really love him. She loves me. She chooses me.

She tried to speak Lao. I made her speak English. Her apology was rushed. She had a smirk on her face. She tried to cover her face with a towel. What a cunt!

Beta was livid. Saying he's gonna spit in her face. Blah blah. Sounded totally shit-faced drunk. Told me he'd been drinking all day.

I honestly felt she owed this guy an apology. I don't see why she needed to punk AND cuckold him so callously.

He speaks Lao. She could have said her boyfriend came back and she needs time. Or something reasonable. He'd wait for her. He's obviously that kind of guy.

He's been messaging me several times per day. Sends photos of them. Screenshots of texts. Says over and over I should dump her and the reasons why. To send her home.

I mostly just agree with him. Tell him I feel bad too. Which I do. That it should have been handled differently. That if he wants a good Lao wife and mother he should move on.

I don't want to have to run this damage control my entire time in country. I'm sure I could string him along for weeks. Honestly I think he needs the bro support.

She claims to have cut off all contact. I suspect they're in touch or will be. He still wants her back. I think most of his shit is a veiled attempt to game me.

Thing is I have her now. I see little point in sending her home until I finish the entire country. Then they both can do whatever SHE wants. I'll be out of the picture.

But right now I'm in control. And I have a schedule to keep.

She brings up money everyday. Says she's running out. Blah blah. I keep telling her to cut the crap. Stop treating me like I'm an idiot.

Will visa run into Chang Rai. My second land crossing to Thailand this year.

Is there still a limit?

I read online there was at first. But Thailand scrapped it. You can now enter by land unlimited times with a two week visa waiver. Air is still 30 days.

Beta messaged me there was still a limit. Trying to scare me with another reason to dump her.

He has a work visa. Wanted to point out if I try to date her in Vientiane I must fly for visa runs.

I think he's wrong. Not that it matters.

Thoughts?

--

Xayaboury Elephant Festival

It was awesome. Almost 70 working Asian elephants from different areas gather for 3 days.

I advise going on Friday. Same ceremony and show minus Saturdays huge crowd. Some elephants aren't as dressed up. It's essentially a practice day for main day.

On Saturday they open with ethnic dancing by costumed kids. It's rather disappointing if you've visited the ethnic villages already. They end with an Elephant Baci Ceremony.

Sunday is the wrap up. Good day to be up on the elephants during the festival. They end with awards and elephant buffet.

Events are 8-11am. Saturday started a little earlier. Not much in afternoons as it's too hot. Elephants can only work 3-4 hours.

The show is elephant tricks, racing, soccer penalty shots, painting canvas, etc.

Not terribly exciting if you've done seen other elephant shows in Asia. But for sheer numbers it's good.

Walk back to hotel over bamboo bridge to north of main bridge each day. You can watch elephants cooking off and bathing in river. Same early in morning.

The stadium is just across the bridge over Nam Heouang River. Fairgrounds and paddock opposite. Maybe 20 min walk from the Main Street with all the guesthouses. No need to rent a motorbike.

At night the ethnic costume dance show is modern kids. Not worthwhile unless you've never seen the outfits. Better to rest and get up early.

The fairgrounds have a carnival. Dusty and typical. Only worthwhile thing was cheap fresh strawberry shakes. They grow them near Hongsa. Hard to find in Laos.

Pak Lai also had some kind of concurrent ethnic festival with giant masks. Phabet or something like that. Pak Lai is 110km south towards Vientiane.

ElefantAsia no longer runs the elephant festival. Sounds like the government took it away from them. When I called to ask they seemed bitter about it.

That NGO still runs the Elephant Conservation Center. Guidebook said $60 for a day. Over the phone they said I had to pay $250, stay overnight, and use their transport to/from.

They wouldn't accommodate me for a quick tour. Nor would they give a discount to a Lao person. So $500 for two people to look around. Crazy.

Seems they have no problem busing Japanese tourists down from Luang Prabang at those prices. Try Sakura Tour for that.

Planned to stay a night in Hongsa. Guidebook said Brazilian anthropologist runs eco elephant treks. Called her. She moved to Luang Prabang. Hongsa has a new Thai coal plant but nothing to do but choke on it.

Ban Veingkeo 5km south of Hongsa has 17 elephants in a Tai Liu village but they were all still in Sainyabuli city.

Minivan to Muang Ngeun arrives too late to connect to Pakbeng via the new bridge over Mekong. Finished last year so bus routes still suck. Nothing to do there either. Just a border town.

Had 7 of us ready to pay minivan to continue on to Pakbeng for 50,000K. We negotiate down to 30,000K. Two EE tourists decide that's too much. They will hitch. 3 French decide to cross into Thailand.

Sitting at bus station a km outside down with my bags. No bus till morning and total shit guesthouse. Walk to Chinese market. A tuk tuk wants 50,000K/pp (same as morning bus).

I go out to road. Open my umbrella and stick out my thumb "Pakbeng!" "PAKBENG!" Like a silly Retard. Within a few minutes a pickup stops and starts making room. Crazy falang completely nailed it!

We see the dirtbag EE backpackers. Take pity. Ask driver to pick them up. My girl is chatting driver in Laos so he says ok. But they have to sit in back with the pile of dirt. They're happy.

Not much in Pakbeng. Arrive in time for sunset. A few decent restaurants but too busy to get food quick. We have some fresh croissants and BBQ.

Maybe some waterfalls and caves in Pakbeng if you stick around. We couldn't find a motorbike though. Tourist center didn't open until 8am.

8am slowboat upriver. The backpacker buys me a beer and I do this write up. Captain likes my girl. Let's me hold the wheel briefly.

Otherwise pretty boring. Can't imagine doing the full two days. Thankfully boat has airline seats and a table. Not hard benches. 8-9 hours to bokeo. Bring a chick to rub your feet.

[Travel Museums]

Currently in Thailand on an extended visa run. To answer my own question Thailand apparently has no limit on land crossings.

I've been in Chiang Rai for a week. Today I crossed into Myanmar for a few hours. Returning to Thailand I was stamped for a month visa. That makes 3 visa on arrivals this year already; each by land; all stamped for 30 days. Two were recrossing after only a few hours.

I'm assuming if Thai immigration notices you cross the same border every 30 days like clockwork you may have a problem. But if you go to different crossings every 3 weeks or so and stay abroad awhile you could probably get away with Thai visa runs indefinitely.

Also they now have little handouts warning overstaying up to 90 days results in a year ban. More than 90 over your visa results in a 5 year ban from entering Thailand.

Huay Xai Laos doesn't have much to do. Making matters worse no one in town will rent you a motorbike. The package tours are outrageously priced.

Tuktuks are your only option. Most are lazy as fuck. Wouldn't leave downtown. Found one guy to take us towards golden triangle. Paid 2000B divided by six. He was either lazy, stupid, or a cheat. Most of the day was spent eating noodles and trying to find a ruin 5 minutes from the road. He scared everyone about going to a waterfall saying it was too far.

I did the two day option with Gibbon Experience. You zipline dozens of times on very high wires. Last one right into a giant treehouse where you sleep. Treehouse even had a shower.

I paid 1.5 million Kip. Sent my girl in alone and she got the laos price of 300,000. If she was a local it would have been even less.

Last year in Champasak I got here a similar deal on tree top explorer zipline. She was too scared and left for home. I think that's the better overnight zipline experience in Laos. Much better scenery, waterfalls, and includes repelling, rope bridges, mountain climbing.

Gibbon Experience is the original but laos has tons of copy cat ziplines now. It was still fun. We used her selfie stick to get great video doing tandem ziplines. Some awesome slow motion too.

Stuck to my guns on money. Came down to the wire but morning before our trek she's at the bank counting several thousand baht and hundreds of thousands of Kip. Says her brother sent it. Whatever.

My girl apparently invested several thousand dollars with the bottled water company PS which was paying out 18% per month. Of course it's a scam and last couple months PS haven't payed out anything. A few years ago a similar laos company went under and people lost everything.

I cut off her boyfriend. Did it in a nice way. He accepts that she is now with me. He wanted his bike back from her but she loaned him 300 Euro. I guess she has gotten it back now since she stopped talking about money everyday.

She didn't want to go to Chiang Rai with me. I had to tell her we'd only cross to Chiang khong for a day.

The new friendship bridge is completed. Now only Thai or Lao can cross the Mekong to immigration by boat.

Chiang khong doesn't have much to see. So I rented a motorbike. Two hours to ban sop ruak. This town is where the golden triangle is.

It has two excellent opium museums about the drug trafficking. You can see the actual meeting point of the three countries (Myanmar, Laos, Thailand) from a bluff. There's also boat tours that stop in Laos.

Laos is developing a casino area (Laos Vegas). There's a resort casino in the distance in Myanmar. Supposedly you can cross there from Laos if you grease the right wheels.

I spent a week Chiang Rai city. Found a great place for 200B off Jetyod Street. I thought it'd be a good pub street. But instead of backpackers it's entirely old men.

They seemed to be retirees. Lots of expats living in northern Thailand. Most of the bars and massage parlors there cater to them.

The nightly bazaar near the bus station has performances but awful food. Sat and Sun there are walking streets in two different areas. Same exact vendors at each.

Chiang Rai has three great museums. One on hill tribes and others about Lanna culture. Worth checking out.

Singha Park is also really nice at sunset. You can ride a tram and feed giraffes. Or rent a bike. Some really nice curving tea terraces for photo shoots.

White Temple south of town gets crowded. Went back for sunset on a Sunday when it's open a bit later and almost deserted.

Black House to the north was less interesting. I didn't really enjoy it.

There are some good waterfalls if you rent a motorbike. We combined them with visits to the 6 hill tribes villages.

Probably the best village is ban lorcha. They give a tour. The most disappointing was ban ruammit. Depressing elephant enclosure and no long neck Karen (which is probably a good thing since it's exploitative).

Mae Salang and Ban Thoet Thai are worth checking out. The drive there is breathtaking.

Mae Salang is a Chinese village of ex-KMT from 93 regiment that fled after 1949 first to Myanmar then Thailand. Small museum. Worth staying a night.

Ban Thoet Thai is where Khun Sa the Opium King had his base camp. It's now a museum. Had to coerce the lazy a fuck keeper to get out of her lawn chair and open it for us. Kept claiming not to have the key. It's the towns only attraction. My girl can speak Lao/Thai but was getting nowhere.

After an hour looking around in town we went back. I handed my card and said I already have one video of you looking lazy. I'm now making a follow up. I'd like to post a positive video. I'd hate to see you lose your job if I have to post the first one. I'm not sure she understood what I said but she immediately opened it up.

Not much to see but no way I was spending the night. As it was the delay caused me to drive home in the dark. Couldn't where my shades. Eyes temporarily blinded by the time we made it back down to Chiang Rai.

There's really nothing to see in Tachileak Myanmar. Was just curious to crossover and check it out. If you want a two week pass to go further into Shan state you'll need to hire a guide. Costs 1000B/day plus his lodging and food. Then you have to return to tachileik bc they keep your passport at the border. At least that's what I read.

Tomorrow I'll drive to Doi Tung along Thai-myanmar border. The royal family built a summer villa there that's now a garden museum. The late kings mom retired there I guess. She spearheaded the development projects like crop replacement. You see a lot of small farm coffee, fruits, nuts from Chiang Rai. Idea was to replace opium.

There's another nice motorbike trip out of Chiang khong along the Laos border. Not sure I'll do it. Into march now and the air is thick with haze from swidden agriculture.

My girl has been enjoying herself. She's minorly annoyed at the detour out of Laos. But I've gotten so many dope photos of her she's happy.

Been banging her every morning and doing half day trips starting late morning or early afternoon. Some days I'm so exhausted I don't bang her. Just get the massage and pass out. An early night for us is getting in around 8pm hammered from hiking and biking.

Ran auto match on tinder. Had over 50 matches. Mostly ugly girls. A few decent girls. Handful of hotties.

Most are saying I have a gf bc of all the photos in my ig feed showing her. Was curious to see what effect that would have.

Definitely missed out on some layups. I think it's not worth posting the pics so I'll let them get buried after this trip.

Will also travel solo in Thailand from now on. There's too many easy girls here to travel with a chick. You miss out.

Will cross back to bokeo Province Laos. Then catch bus to Luang namtha. Maybe do a trek. Then udomxai and phongsali. I'll have been everywhere in Laos.

May try to stay in Luang Prabang for Pi Mai. But have to be back stateside right after. So cutting it close.

This trip has worn me out. Really pushing myself too hard everyday to see at least three new things. Requires a lot of long bus and motorbike rides.

[FretDancer]

Quote:

I've been in Chiang Rai for a week. Today I crossed into Myanmar for a few hours. Returning to Thailand I was stamped for a month visa. That makes 3 visa on arrivals this year already; each by land; all stamped for 30 days. Two were recrossing after only a few hours.

I thought the north border between Myanmar and Thailand had strong military presence?

Anyways, great info on Chiang Rai!

[Travel Museums]

Hmm quick correction. Just went through Thailand immigration on my way from Chiang Khong back to Bokeo Province Laos.

The immigration officer spoke English. She said I was only supposed to be allowed two land crossings this year and for two weeks only. Coming back from Myanmar the same day was my third.

I told her that doesn't make sense since this same border post stamped me for one month only two weeks ago. And the same for the Mae Sai border with Myanmar. And same for Cambodia border. All stamped for one month by land.

She just repeated only two land crossings for two weeks per calendar year. Then said if I stay for one month by land I must make my visa in advance. I asked is that possible on the consulate website? Or do I need to visit a consulate in another country and do it in person? Ignored.

I pointed to my passport and said you can see each of my three land crossings were stamped for one month. Even this very border post stamped me in for one month. They are all in a row on same page. And I asked about each one when I got it and was told different answers every time.

(Didn't matter anyway since all my crossings lasted less than two weeks; two were same day. I'm obviously not spending much time in Thailand. Not living here.)

I told her I checked the Thai US consulate website which states that this rule was changed again. It clearly says that Thai land border crossings are currently unlimited in number per year but limited in duration for only two weeks.

She just ignored me. Stamped my passport and handed it back.

Seemed like a pretty robotic response. I told her I'm sure Thai officials are used to dealing with expats living in Thailand who evade a residency visa by using tourist visas. My understanding is that's what the new changes were aimed at curbing this.

But the changes also persecuted tourists crossing in for a day or two from other countries. So they changed it.

Again she just looked annoyed and ignored me. Motioned for next in line.

So basically what she told me conflicted with the actual stamps that are in my passport. Crazy...

The border with Shan State is normal enough at Tachileik. There are border checkpoints along the road to Doi Tung where you show a copy of your passport from pornchai bike shop. I think the tachileik border is now open until 9pm.

[Travel Museums]

Stayed an extra day in Chiang Khong to do a motorbike loop to Phu Chi Fa National Park and Phu Sang Waterfall (Nat Park) in Phayao. Took a whole day leaving early.

Nice drive through mountains on 1155 and 1093. View not so great due to fog and smoke from all the slash and burn.

Met a retired New Yorker in Doi Tung who said by april it's so bad she goes to Bangkok for clean air!

Phu Sang is a thermal Waterfall you can splash around the base. It's warm but cooler than body temperature. Nice boardwalk through forest above falls. Thai NPS copies US park service which is great.

Guidebook suggested continue to phayao city. About same time it takes to loop back to Chiang Khong. I did meet other expats who had driven motorbikes up from Bangkok!

Spent a day in Chiang Saen to see the national museum and ruins. Getting back to Chiang Khong it was cheaper to go back through Chiang Rai! The tuktuk wanted 1000B charter direct. So took two buses for little over 100 altogether. Spent the time working on my phone but killed most of a day.

Rented a motorbike from barber shop in Chiang Saen (threw in free haircut). So took one last spin up to golden triangle. I'm glad I saw it in February. The view was totally ruined by smog. Their system for boat tours is retarded. Literally two dozen docks each demanding tourists charter their own boat at exorbitant prices. Meanwhile bus tour groups come and go leaving with boats half or completely full. Looked like a new terminal is under construction...

I recommend leave this area of SE Asia from late February. It's not healthy and the views are ruined.

Sticking around Laos to see last three provinces (Luang Namtha, Udomxai, Phongsali). Will probably do a visa run to Yunnan.

Maybe try to see Pi Mai in Luang Prabang in April. But cutting it close to a departure back stateside. Doing a cruise from Puerto Rico to Bermuda. First time for both.

Baan Fai GH in Chiang Khong rents under powered motorbikes. Barely made it up some inclines by ditching my girl and Fred flinstone with my feet. Then the piece of shit kept stalling out on downhills.

[Travel Museums]

Made it to Luang Namtha. Not much to see around town. The waterfall is mostly dry now. Some kids spear fishing crab.

Cheap Chinese motorbike rental 30,000K. Drove over an hour south to Kao Rao cave south on road I came in on. Nothing special. Some decent rimstone on the floor in some places.

Guided treks are the main thing to do here. Though they get expensive. An overnight to the Nam Ha national protected area as 450,000K if I joined a group of 4. He said he'd only charge my laos girl 200,000 but she's not too interested. I'm not either. Maybe a one day in and out.

[Kamaki4]

(03-10-2017 10:33 PM)Travel Museums Wrote:  

Hmm quick correction. Just went through Thailand immigration on my way from Chiang Khong back to Bokeo Province Laos.

The immigration officer spoke English. She said I was only supposed to be allowed two land crossings this year and for two weeks only. Coming back from Myanmar the same day was my third.

I told her that doesn't make sense since this same border post stamped me for one month only two weeks ago. And the same for the Mae Sai border with Myanmar. And same for Cambodia border. All stamped for one month by land.

She just repeated only two land crossings for two weeks per calendar year. Then said if I stay for one month by land I must make my visa in advance...

She was correct about the limit of crossings. They changed this recently (again) to 2 border crossings per year by land for a 30 day stay. In theory all border crossings should follow the same rules, but in practice this isn't always the case.

In a previous post you mentioned that if a guy wanted to stay in Thailand permanently why not cross over to Tachilek, or another crossing, and back every 30 days. This is exactly what I did for 1.5 yrs during my 1st stint in CR. Several times I had to cross every 15 days (again, rule change).

This is the main impetus behind all the visa and border crossing rule changes lately. They really don't want guys, like me in the past, living permanently in Thailand on visa exempt entries or tourist visas.

As for CR, where I live, Jet Yod is not a place to meet Thai girls, or anyone else for that matter, except low key hill tribe bar girls. There are two main nigtlife areas in CR and a scattered group of bars and clubs near CR Rajabhat Univ. Klang Wiang Rd attracts a higher end crowd at Taurus (prev 9090 cafe), CR@Night, Play Point, Klum, Retro 66 etc. These bars close at midnight and then the party moves on to Ratbumroong Rd where Par Club, Tawan Dang and Hardcore Cafe keep it going until the early hrs. Thai country club, Moom Khon Mueang further down Phahon Yothin Rd is also quite good, but closes at 2am.

[Travel Museums]

Are those all typical Thai style clubs? My experience is Thai style clubs are essentially worthless for a same night lay. People just stick to their tables and any drink girl who wanted my dick would get hen crowded by her friends and pulled away.

I made a post on Facebook about the visa changes showing photos of my passport stamps. The visa official obviously saw three sets of stamps but refused to look at the date on them. The women at tachileik did however. She saw my entry from Cambodia was the same day. I never actually even crossed into Thailand. So she had no issue stamping me back in. Border officials can be flexible if they want to.

Still my dumb Thai friends couldn't understand how bad this rule is for their economy. Many SEA travelers bounce over to Thailand for a few days or weeks when they need a new laos, Burmese, or Cambodian visa. That's 3 legit land crossings in a winter travel.

The same travelers then cross again by land at the end of their trip to take a budget flight to BKK. That's a fourth legit land crossing. For guys like me who are intrepid travelers it could even be a 5-6 crossing by that point.

So many times I'm next to a border. If it's easy, I will pop across. But if it's not easy I won't bother with the hassle. Case in point: VIETNAM. I've never been there. Yet in this trip alone I could have done so many times. From Kampot > Phucoc to Laos > Dien Ben Phu. There was a dozen border crossings I skipped. That's probably a thousand dollars NOT SPENT in Vietnam's poor border provinces.

Why? Americans don't get a two week visa waiver. We have to apply beforehand at a consulate with exact travel dates. Then we get one month no reentry. No thanks. I'll just skip the entire country of Vietnam. Maybe one day I'll bother going once I've done all the easier countries.

Thailand is in danger of getting the same reaction. For instance last year I finished my trip in southern laos and wanted to fly home. Pakse > BKK was ridiculous like $500. But take a $2 bus to Ubon Ratchathani and fly from there? Only $20-30 on a Thai budget airline.

I want to do the same this year from Laos. But I can't. It's illegal. Will I pay $500+? Hell no. I'll bus to Yunnan and fly home from China.

Thailand not only gave away its domestic airline industry to China they are at risk of losing BKK's status as the SEA air hub. Last year I was unsure about the visa changes. So I flew into Chengdu then flew to Yunnan. It won't be long before Kunming takes over completely. Soon I'll be able to hub directly out of Yunnan.

China had no problem giving me a ten year tourist visa with unlimited entries lasting two months. The best Thailand now offers is 6 months, again with limited entries.

When I go China they stamp my passport and point me to the nearest ATM so I can convert dollars to RMB. In Thailand the agent may not even want to let me in. They'll glance at some stamps and decide I must be trying to live there. Fuck me? Fuck you! I'll spend my money somewhere else.

Last year when I flew out of Ubon I spent two weeks and hundreds of dollars there. That's foreign money into a poor border province simply bc I came to take a flight to BKK.

Now I'll spend that money in China. Include my flights and it's thousands of dollars Thailand FORCES me to give to China. It's not like I'm choosing China over Thailand. Thailand is literally refusing to allow tourists to come spend leftover time and money there.

Who do they think is just waiting to accept us with open arms? It's China! China will soak it up like sponge. It's not like they even need the help.

I just got back from a night in Muang Sing Laos. Man I thought Luang Namtha had a heavy Chinese presence. Muang Sing is overrun by Chinese businesses and people. It's scary.

The road to Muang Sing is paved but full of pot holes. Spend the extra money on a non Chinese motorbike. Just for the padding alone. Muang Sing has a good little tribal museum. No e of the villages you can drive to are traditional. No ethnic minorities in dress at the morning Market either. There's a nice waterfall on the way back to luang Namtha. Just after you cross into the Nam ha National protected area.

Heading to udomxai tomorrow.