[TigerMandingo]

(12-28-2016 11:37 PM)Delta Wrote:  

To the average person, "Jewish Question" = Naziism. An normal person casually browsing this thread would likely conclude that we support concentration camps, or at the very least, some degree of mistreatment of Jewish folks living in America. Think about that. Think about how damaging that is to the causes we actually believe in. Consider this shit before you hit the "Post" button.

Agree in spirit with your post, but I don't really see any comfortable way of introducing the topic to an average person. That coupled with the fact that the overwhelming majority of Westerners, and Americans in particular, are highly philo-semitic. The evils of Nazism and anti-jewish persecution have been drilled into their heads since pre-school and they have no interest in wading into these murky waters.

[Enigma]

(12-29-2016 11:29 AM)Gmac Wrote:  

You've got the timeline wrong. I was in that group chat and that happened last Thursday. BA made up with Mike and the rest of the team shortly after. Meltdown happened Monday night.

Everything I posted was from Monday night. The DMs were from Thursday, but Baked Alaska tweeted them on Monday.

The text of my post might be confusing though because I'm in a +8 timezone and when I embed the tweets here, it changes the timestamp for some reason. And I'm 16 hours ahead of California, meaning 5pm tweets Monday night show as 8am Tuesday morning for me.

[Libertas]

Those most devoted to the "alt-right" label don't understand that this is no longer a guerilla war. This may be a controversial opinion but I think 2016 was the peak year of the so-called "real alt-right." Their own mistakes combined with their marginal message (most Americans just aren't going to come around to the idea of an all white ethnostate) means that their influence won't be very high. The label will still stick around because it's useful for the left and the media to hypnotize people with but it won't have much meaning beyond that.

You can say branding doesn't matter and all that but the heuristics of persuasion don't change. If you want real influence and impact for the long term (not just one year's operations, but on the level of grand strategy) you need to be cognizant of it.

Vox Day had the best post about this.

[Zep]

(12-28-2016 09:36 PM)Enigma Wrote:  

[/url]

You can see the lead up here.

[url=https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=from%3Abakedalaska%20%40cernovich&src=typd]https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vert...h&src=typd

This issue seems unbelievably simple. If Mike talked to me like that I'd get on the phone and say 'CHILL!!....don't fucking speak to me like that Mike..."

and then a good loud argument would ensue and we'd figure it out. I've been in bands, this is what happens but 4 times as much, what, you're going to kick out a member every time he pisses you off?? Christ the arguments I've been in with band members, so what?? those members were GOOD, so you have a couple of pissed-off spots every now and then, it's worth it in the long run.

This talking shit over twitter and periscope is so gay.

Yell at each other in person or over the phone and move on from there. duh.

[Samseau]

The bottom line is BA botched his job, got fired, and then threw the first punch at Mike by posting private messages. Could Mike have used more expert psychological ju-jitsu to handle BA with no meltdowns? Perhaps, but it doesn't change the fact BA failed his job and acted like a child when fired.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

'Samseau'
The bottom line is BA botched his job, got fired, and then threw the first punch at Mike by posting private messages. Could Mike have used more expert psychological ju-jitsu to handle BA with no meltdowns? Perhaps, but it doesn't change the fact BA failed his job and acted like a child when fired.


I agree - looking at the messages of Mike I see nothing wrong with that. The event had a featured guest who would want to do Nazi-salutes and other shit for publicity? I mean - you cannot have that. Who knows - he might have shown up in SS-uniform and what then?

All this public beef is useless of course, but on the other hand - some guys can never be reasoned with. And the social media personalities usually lash out via social media, because that usually never hurts them.

It gets only tricky when you try to do other projects aside from that. You cannot wash all the dirty dishes out in the open.

[Zep]

From what I get from this thread, this BA guy brought up the JQ. This pissed off Mike. Ok, did BA know NOT to do this?? and don't say "he should have known", because one could say Mike "should have known about BA's personality". If BA was not told specifically not to bring up the JQ, then fine, Mike could have called him and done what he wanted. If BA was unaware that he was not to bring up the JQ, then Mike could have spoken to him and said "look dude, chill on JQ ok", then it's either a yes, or no for continued relations from there.

No verbal jiu-jitsui, it's not complicated. From this thread Mike got pissed that BA brought up the JQ, and then treated him like crap over text. If Mike had previously told him "No JQ, capice?", and BA went ahead and did it anyway, well, BA deserved what he got. If BA turned to twitter to low-blow, this does not necessitate Mike to do the same.

[Libertas]

It should've been common sense not to bring it up when you're listed as a headliner for a somewhat well-known event that's just on the verge of tipping into the mainstream.

Here's another thing with those devotees of the "alt-right" label. They make the "JQ" a sacred mantra. Aside from the blind alleys I've mentioned before when you get too hung up on Jews, the "Jewish Question" or "JQ" is itself a dumb phrase if your goal is to persuade.

"Jewish Question." What does that sound like? What images is it evocative of?

And then you wonder why no one wants to talk about what you want to talk about. You've effectively pre-suaded yourself out of your pitch before you even started it. You provide confirmation bias for the very forces you criticize (the organized lobby that says any talk about outsized Jewish influence is automatically "anti-Semitic").

Just another bomb in your face when you force yourself to live 80 years in the past.

Believe me, right wing populism is going to be far better off when these SJW's of the right, otherwise known as the "alt-right," decline this coming year.

[Samseau]

(12-29-2016 04:15 PM)Zep Wrote:  

From what I get from this thread, this BA guy brought up the JQ. This pissed off Mike. Ok, did BA know NOT to do this?? and don't say "he should have known", because one could say Mike "should have known about BA's personality". If BA was not told specifically not to bring up the JQ, then fine, Mike could have called him and done what he wanted. If BA was unaware that he was not to bring up the JQ, then Mike could have spoken to him and said "look dude, chill on JQ ok", then it's either a yes, or no for continued relations from there.

No verbal jiu-jitsui, it's not complicated. From this thread Mike got pissed that BA brought up the JQ, and then treated him like crap over text. If Mike had previously told him "No JQ, capice?", and BA went ahead and did it anyway, well, BA deserved what he got. If BA turned to twitter to low-blow, this does not necessitate Mike to do the same.

Do you really think you're seeing the whole picture from one text? Mike's a big boy and I'm sure he's got his reasons.

[Delta]

(12-29-2016 11:51 AM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  

(12-28-2016 11:37 PM)Delta Wrote:  

To the average person, "Jewish Question" = Naziism. An normal person casually browsing this thread would likely conclude that we support concentration camps, or at the very least, some degree of mistreatment of Jewish folks living in America. Think about that. Think about how damaging that is to the causes we actually believe in. Consider this shit before you hit the "Post" button.

Agree in spirit with your post, but I don't really see any comfortable way of introducing the topic to an average person. That coupled with the fact that the overwhelming majority of Westerners, and Americans in particular, are highly philo-semitic. The evils of Nazism and anti-jewish persecution have been drilled into their heads since pre-school and they have no interest in wading into these murky waters.

There's no way to make such discussion totally palatable, but you can't do any worse than the phrase "Jewish Question." Choose literally any other way to present the issue and you'll be better off. The fact that people here have to explain why it's a bad idea to sound like the Nazi Party leading up to the Holocaust is self-evidently absurd.

Between this and the "Roman Salute" fiasco, I can only regard the hardcore segment of the alt-right as a bunch of outcast lunatics and self-aggrandizing trolls.

[Roosh]

Looks like the drama is dying down.

The take-home from this to me is how the 1488 mob continues to increase in size, and how the alt right leaders are basically now hostage to their whims and demands. I wouldn't be surprised if they take down one of their own leaders in the next year in a way that makes the Cernovich vs BA drama look like child's play. Richard Spencer and The Right Stuff guys are in favor now, but they'll be targeted at some point. There is already a big beef between 8chan /pol/ and TRS. 8chan is calling them out for being homosexual-lovers, among other things.

https://8ch.net/pol/res/8627365.html

[Enigma]

(12-29-2016 07:53 AM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

Enigma:

Calmly and politely, since I'm under a warning:

Why wouldn't you reply in a calm and polite manner?

Quote:

I wasn't engaging in deliberate-obfuscation re: Forney. I called them both out at the time, and later called out Forney when he started going Race Realist in his podcast, which pained me to do so, because I think he's a damn good writer and journalist and I want to see him get his demons under control because I think he's got some potentially-sold works ahead as he matures. If he could channel his anger into some serious gym work, his natural sarcasm has great game potential.

Fair enough point.

Quote:

But we're left in the bizarre situation where Mike is disavowing Baked Alaska for saying 'Kike' whilst not disavowing Forney for saying 'Nigger'. What constitutes protected classes in the Alt-Lite?

It's only bizarre when taken out of context.

First of all, Mike's regularly given a platform to not only to the Alt-Right but to a literal neo-Nazi who has a swastika tattoo on their chest (weev/Andrew Aurenheimer) -- and even included him in Silenced.

He doesn't "protect" Jews.

He cut ties with an employee who was bringing unnecessary drama to a $90,000 event that Mike was on the line for, after said employee had been warned multiple times, when they had already lost one venue and Richard Spencer had already been banned from the new venue.

The logical progression here is, "Mike has always defended people with controversial views, he went against that in a situation with extenuating circumstances, therefore the extenuating circumstances were the cause".

I can understand the point about Mike not firing BA gracefully enough, but I simply can't wrap my head around how people think that he had no grounds to fire him.

Quote:

As for Mike, we simply observe and process information differently. I never assume people with a product to sell or a brand to promote are exactly as they appear.

I don't assume anyone is exactly as they appear, whether they're selling something or not. In fact, I would assume that almost nobody is exactly as they appear.

Nearly everyone tries to portray themselves in a better light, even to themselves. Wouldn't you say that's a pretty common concept in psychology?

And how many threads and posts are there on this forum about trying to portray an inexact version of ourselves, whether it's lying about our age, our height, how long we're in a city, where we're from, etc.?

On the other hand, there's a huge portion of Mike's social life is out there for public scrutiny. More so than pretty much anyone on this forum. That's a fact.

I'm sure there are things he's fudged the details about, but then again so does pretty much every other human being.

Quote:

If you can take him and his apparent altruism at face value, so be it

Mike's only charged for a tiny fraction of the content he's provided. That's an objective fact.

Whether you want to call that altruism is up to you. Shunning money and doing everything solely out of the goodness of your heart is not a right-leaning philosophy, and it's not a belief I ascribe to.

But I do know that there are many men in this community who have found tremendous value in Mike's work, in exchange for very little money on an individual basis. Even if you bought every product Mike's put out, it'd be like $100 total.

Quote:

but there's enough people on the left, middle and right of the political spectrum who despise him for there to be a lot of information out there.

This could be said about Trump, Roosh, and pretty much any other man of influence. What successful man doesn't have haters, especially controversial ones?

Quote:

Much like Milo, the moment Gamergate stopped being useful, he dropped it. But after months of this, you start to notice a pattern.

Gamergate ended. And Mike still mentions it anytime it's relevant. He's made at least a handful of tweets about it just in the past week or so.

Quote:

Yep, we have been using the left's tactics against them. That's been going on for at least a year now. Trump does it, Mike does it, Roosh does it, many members of this forum do it.

Quote:

And lately, I've been wondering if that's all technology is really offering us - the ability to be lesser men. My sister recently observed Satan was the 'prince of the power of the air' so is it any wonder so much toxicity comes through us via the internet? My reply was: "It seems to encourage toxicity. It's a fundamental result of social media design."

Good observation.

Quote:

Obviously, your mileage may vary, due to the differences in how you observe and process information. I can't help with that, which is why I doubt the power of the Alt Right due to considering possible theories that we've all played out a pre-scripted scenario in this election because I've been hugely-surprised that Trump's win was ever allowed to happen.

Okay, so you didn't think Trump could win, then when he won, you thought it was pre-scripted. But if he lost, you'd also have taken that as confirmation of your theory.

Do you see the problem here?

Zelcorpion makes the same claims all the time, and they could very well be correct. But I just don't see the point in subscribing to such a nihilistic world view, especially when it's almost impossible to confirm or deny. Heck, at least you'll have an answer to religious questions when you die.

Since you brought up people's mental health, do you think it's mentally healthy or the sign of a greater man to believe the entire world is against you and you have no chance of influencing it?

And to go back to your original comment that I disagreed with, you said that the Alt-Right had no impact and it was the left and media's failures that got Trump elected.

Now you're essentially saying that they election was pre-scripted and nothing mattered. Of course the Alt-Right didn't have an impact if no one had an impact.

In a world where Hillary's corruption, mass immigration, corrupt media, etc. were major factors, the Alt-Right (and Cernovich) definitely made an impact. How much is up for debate, but it seems pretty clear that they did have some form of influence.

[Zep]

(12-29-2016 05:32 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(12-29-2016 04:15 PM)Zep Wrote:  

From what I get from this thread, this BA guy brought up the JQ. This pissed off Mike. Ok, did BA know NOT to do this?? and don't say "he should have known", because one could say Mike "should have known about BA's personality". If BA was not told specifically not to bring up the JQ, then fine, Mike could have called him and done what he wanted. If BA was unaware that he was not to bring up the JQ, then Mike could have spoken to him and said "look dude, chill on JQ ok", then it's either a yes, or no for continued relations from there.

No verbal jiu-jitsui, it's not complicated. From this thread Mike got pissed that BA brought up the JQ, and then treated him like crap over text. If Mike had previously told him "No JQ, capice?", and BA went ahead and did it anyway, well, BA deserved what he got. If BA turned to twitter to low-blow, this does not necessitate Mike to do the same.

Do you really think you're seeing the whole picture from one text? Mike's a big boy and I'm sure he's got his reasons.

I have claimed "after reading this thread", stating I see the whole picture from a text is just not true. As for Mike being a big boy is neither here nor there. I didn't claim he was, or wasn't, and if you understand the text I wrote that you've quoted one can clearly see the two "If" = "Then" scenarios that doesn't peg Mike into a definite position.

This is not complicated....don't treat people like shit out-of-the-gate...duh.

*IF* Mike told BA to chill on the JQ stuff, then fair enough, getting pissed is warranted.

Incidentally, I have mad respect for Mike, I wish I could do HALF of what he does, his energy is incredible. That said, Again, if I was his employee and he layed into me like that ( without a prior warning to no "JG" ing) I *would* call him up and state "dude .... What.The. Fuck? don't talk to me like that". I have worked with a world class talent and gotten into heated fights with him over a difference in philosophy towards our craft, fine, it got heated, then we moved on. No twitter/periscope sniping after the fact.

[Samseau]

(12-29-2016 05:35 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Looks like the drama is dying down.

The take-home from this to me is how the 1488 mob continues to increase in size, and how the alt right leaders are basically now hostage to their whims and demands. I wouldn't be surprised if they take down one of their own leaders in the next year in a way that makes the Cernovich vs BA drama look like child's play. Richard Spencer and The Right Stuff guys are in favor now, but they'll be targeted at some point. There is already a big beef between 8chan /pol/ and TRS. 8chan is calling them out for being homosexual-lovers, among other things.

https://8ch.net/pol/res/8627365.html

They're really going at each other

   

[Repo]

What the fuck did I stumble into

[Roosh]

That's the problem with purity and edgelord tactics: there is always going to be someone more pure and more edgy than you. What's edgy today is moderate tomorrow.

Genetic testing will one day get so fine that you can claim you're more 0.1% more white and therefore more deserving of the movement's benefits. We already saw a similar sort of purity battle with SJWs, who constantly fought about who was the bigger victim or more virtuous (i.e. who was the biggest loser of society). Now their movement is essentially a national laughing stock.

The bottom line is that if your claim to righteousness is purity or edginess, you will one day be out-flanked. I used to be the edgelord and now Richard Spencer. Tomorrow will be someone else.

[Slim Shady]

Alex Jones has been fighting against the Deep State for years. Where were these guys then?

I bet a lot of them voted for McCain.

[Gmac]

(12-29-2016 05:35 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Looks like the drama is dying down.

The take-home from this to me is how the 1488 mob continues to increase in size, and how the alt right leaders are basically now hostage to their whims and demands. I wouldn't be surprised if they take down one of their own leaders in the next year in a way that makes the Cernovich vs BA drama look like child's play. Richard Spencer and The Right Stuff guys are in favor now, but they'll be targeted at some point. There is already a big beef between 8chan /pol/ and TRS. 8chan is calling them out for being homosexual-lovers, among other things.

https://8ch.net/pol/res/8627365.html

Don't be confused by the "1488 clone army" there aren't as many of them out there as you might think.

There are a lot of bots out there spreading the hate, many by BA (aka Microchip) himself.

[Wutang]

I wonder if all the edge lords have taken the time to think if their God Emperor Trump would be able to pass the purity tests they put on other prominent public figures that are associated with their movement. Trump, unlike a lot of the edge lords obsessed with if someone is "cucking" to the mainstream is much more pragmatic. I'm not suggesting that he has no stances like a lot of his detractors do but he does seem to have a very good sense of knowing when he needs to negotiate and compromise and when he needs to stand firm and fire back. The pol edge lords on the other hand think that you must absolutely to turn every conflict into an Alamo where you can never give an inch even if it means going down fighting and ultimately getting nothing done.

They seem to be forgetting that Trump who almost never apologies for anything actually had to explicitly disavow the alt right and Richard Spencer in that TV interview he did right after winning the election. The autist tards actually were creating more unnecessary drama for Trump and leaving him with shit on his hands that he had to clean up himself with no benefit to show from it. In the same interview he also didn't show that much interest in actively legally persecuting Hillary Clinton. Would that be "cucking" to them?

[Eastside]

(12-29-2016 08:35 PM)Gmac Wrote:  

(12-29-2016 05:35 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Looks like the drama is dying down.

The take-home from this to me is how the 1488 mob continues to increase in size, and how the alt right leaders are basically now hostage to their whims and demands. I wouldn't be surprised if they take down one of their own leaders in the next year in a way that makes the Cernovich vs BA drama look like child's play. Richard Spencer and The Right Stuff guys are in favor now, but they'll be targeted at some point. There is already a big beef between 8chan /pol/ and TRS. 8chan is calling them out for being homosexual-lovers, among other things.

https://8ch.net/pol/res/8627365.html

Don't be confused by the "1488 clone army" there aren't as many of them out there as you might think.

There are a lot of bots out there spreading the hate, many by BA (aka Microchip) himself.

Exactly. Numbers can seem inflated on the internet. In real life though, the Donald Trump driven civic nationalist and populist movement is the one that is happening all over the world and has the results in recent elections to prove it (honestly the truly hard core alt-right ethnonationalist numbers don't even seem that great on the internet either).

Most 1488 people are just keyboard meme regurgitaters, and many people who used to say they were in the alt-right a few months ago really have views that align with what is now being called the "new right" or "alt-light" after Richard Spencer's inflated media attention drove the alt-right brand more towards white nationalism.

The more ethnonationalist alt-right is not really influential or large at all. Remember the platform that Donald Trump just won the election with. That is where the movement is, not with the internet 1488ers who are overly eager to push the JQ and do Nazi salutes.

[Cattle Rustler]

[url=https://twitter.com/InRetentis/status/813889225066250240][/url]

[Gmac]

(12-27-2016 10:34 PM)redbeard Wrote:  

If you have a problem with Mike -

[url=https://twitter.com/MAGA3X/status/813911036298403840][/url]

For the record we've had about 30x the requests for more tickets than refund requests. Less than a dozen refunds.

[SamuelBRoberts]

(12-30-2016 06:09 PM)Gmac Wrote:  

(12-27-2016 10:34 PM)redbeard Wrote:  

If you have a problem with Mike -

[url=https://twitter.com/MAGA3X/status/813911036298403840][/url]

For the record we've had about 30x the requests for more tickets than refund requests. Less than a dozen refunds.

Sounds about right. How many of the people getting mad at Mike live close enough to DC to go to this thing anyway?

[AneroidOcean]

FYI the D&P post related to Baked Alaska drama is still available as a Google Cache for anyone interested in reading it.

It's an interesting read and I don't doubt the premise of BA not wanting to follow direction. Not sure I 100% agree with Mike's way of doing it and that there was no anger involved (that's his alleged assertion), but overall it's hard to find any real significant reason to side with BA. To consider that he accepted employment as a premise (that was previously unknown to the world AFAIK) to all this nonsense is just the nail in the coffin. BA seems to have a huge [micro] chip on his shoulder.

[DevilsMoJo]

"I haven't yet seen anyone espousing actual hardcore neonazi ideas here"

In this thread alone there are people questioning the Holocaust