[CleanSlate]

A month ago, I was thinking about how I've gotten overly reliant on Tinder and other online game apps and sites for getting bangs. There were times I was sitting in my room swiping on Tinder, and stopped to question what I was doing with my life.

When I spoke to a few other forum members, they said they felt the same way. Every time I read the forum, I see members getting bangs through tinder.

So one day about two weeks ago, I was getting particularly frustrated with Tinder and losing productivity with work. I got fed up. Put my phone down. Said "fuck this shit, no more Tinder", and got back to work.

I have not used Tinder since.

And in that two weeks, I got only one new bang from picking up a girl at a club in Bangkok. Right now I'm in Vietnam, and I've met two girls doing day game, and I'm still working on them.

Although my bangs have gone WAY down, my life has gotten more interesting and work has gotten more productive. Without getting too much into it, here are some highlights:

- More focus on work produced income covering all my living expenses this month
- I go out more. Less staying in my room waiting for online pussy delivery
- Less AA and more motivated to approach
- Had one instadate, followed up with another longer date the next day
- Went out alone last night. Had fun, DGAF attitude, people took notice. Had brief "life of the party" moment. Got 2 numbers to follow up with while I'm in Vietnam.

The most important and somewhat unexpected effect is my face-to-face game and social skills have gotten better.

To further challenge myself, I refuse to use Tinder or any online dating sites for the remainder of my Vietnam trip. For those of you who know me in real life, you know I rely on online game the most... so to decline my own bread-and-butter is a pretty big deal for me personally. But two weeks without online has made a difference already.

Now let's see you challenge yourselves.

Will you stop using Tinder and online game for a period of time and see how things go? A week? A month?

What happens if you stop using online game? Report here... any positives or negatives.

[McCarthy]

I felt exactly the same way you do. Unfortunately, Tinder Pareto dominates any other gaming alternative in both time and cost (quality perhaps not, unless one is at the top 1% of men). So it is hard to go back to the normal level of notches. However, tinder made me bored of girls and leaving it naturally raised my interest for daygaming back. Much harder, but also more fun.

Honestly, the best point of Tinder is that it gave me abundance mentality and get rid of any possible thirst forever.

Tinder has been most men’s sexual revolution. But being there it is just optional, that’s its greatness I think.

[CleanSlate]

(12-03-2016 11:25 PM)McCarthy Wrote:  

I felt exactly the same way you do. Unfortunately, Tinder Pareto dominates any other gaming alternative in both time and cost (quality perhaps not, unless one is at the top 1% of men). So it is hard to go back to the normal level of notches. However, tinder made me bored of girls and leaving it naturally raised my interest for daygaming back. Much harder, but also more fun.

Honestly, the best point of Tinder is that it gave me abundance mentality and get rid of any possible thirst forever.

Tinder has been most men’s sexual revolution. But being there it is just optional, that’s its greatness I think.

We're on the same page here.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting to quit Tinder forever. First, that's not realistic. Second, I'm not going to advise anyone to do something I won't do myself.

I'll go on Tinder (and other online sites) every now and then, but I find it beneficial to go at least 1-3 weeks without it to maintain your real-life game and social skills without getting complacent -- for obvious reasons.

[RatInTheWoods]

It sounds to me like it's more about you questioning yourself how much of your time should you chase poosey with, VS doing other things with your life.

It's too easy to slip into 4 hours a day poosey chasing, when that should more likely be your weekly tally.

[cbased]

In western countries Tinder and other apps are waste of time anyway

[subterfuge]

Tinder is interesting. I have a few friends who kind of have zero game - i.e They rarely approach random girls, aren't smooth on the rare occasions that they DO, and just don't appear charismatic/confident etc. HOWEVER, they get laid all the time due to tinder. Often times, the girls just come straight to their place and bang and so it kind of takes away the 'game' element. If she thinks you are hot (swipes right) AND agrees to meet you at your place, it's just a guaranteed lay - A bit like a free prostitute!

If you took tinder away, none of my friends would get laid. But I guess it'll always be there (or some newer, better equivalent)

[BoiBoi]

I have never used tinder in my life.

[kirdiesel]

No Tinder isnt a challenge... its daily life for some of us. Welcome to real game!

[CleanSlate]

As far as I know, most of the forum uses tinder and it's quite mainstream in the general population, too. But it's interesting to see a few guys coming in here and say "oh I never use tinder" as if they're too good for that.

(Though I do agree with cbased that it's mostly a waste of time in western countries.)

[Nater]

NoTinder since August 2015. I will share my story.

First, my relationship with Tinder lasted 2 years and all it gave me is frustration.

It made me feel like a looser just like porn, but unlike porn these girls were attracted to me yet I couldn't bed them.
It resulted in more frustration. The frustration caused me to delete the app and to start looking for answers.
About a week after that I talked about girls with my cousin and, may God bless him, he mentioned the holy word "PUA" in the discussion.
He later sent me several pick up videos that I consumed voraciously.

2 months later, after I've read the game thoroughly and watched the blueprint, I was out on the streets approaching random chicks and taking notes.
When I started going out, I promised to myself that I wasn't going to re-install Tinder for at least 1 year of practice.
In my mind, REAL men approached girls in REAL life.

The best decision I've made game wise to this day.


I will start with the positive impact it had on my life.

First, like most millennials I grew up behind a computer with a playstation controller and a bag of chips. Everything I had came from a device. My social interactions came from social media, my sex from porn site, my entertainment from TV shows. This resulted in a 21 yo social handicap.

So because of this I forced myself to go out at night 3 times a week and talk to people throughout the day.

6 months later, my social skills and my game improved tremendously.

My peak in the game was 60 day of noporn combined with NoTinder and the gym.

This is the best game diet around.

Second benefit, my inner game improved.

The first smile I got increased my confidence, the first touch, the first dance, the first kiss close and ultimately the first bang made me believe that I was capable of doing something by myself. After achieving this, I lost faith in online game and in all social platforms in general.

My wing who I started the game with, had used online game for the first 4 months, he didn't improve as fast as me and he stopped using it shortly after.


The big negative for me was TIME, I had to allocate a lot of time throughout the week to game chicks when I could do something productive. Well not entirely true, building social skills is a rather productive thing to do.

If you say you waste considerable amount of time using online game you are better off approaching girls en vivo.

Another caveat to going old school is that you sacrifice the left over meat of online game, the fat and the ugly.
My buddy got laid thanks to online game several times.

This is my experience with online game so far. I might re-install Tinder in the future because of my career but I feel like going old school is the best thing you can do as a newbie.After you know how to approach girls and know how to behave with a chick you can go online. Another stream of pussy is always welcome and you will be more likely successful in your dates.

I hope this helps!

[BoiBoi]

(12-04-2016 09:55 AM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

As far as I know, most of the forum uses tinder and it's quite mainstream in the general population, too. But it's interesting to see a few guys coming in here and say "oh I never use tinder" as if they're too good for that.

(Though I do agree with cbased that it's mostly a waste of time in western countries.)

Never said that I'm too good for it. I just don't have a facebook account since some years ago.

Anyway, I wasn't shitting on you tinder users, I was just trying to prove that you can exist successfully without relying on it.

[Cattle Rustler]

Oddly enough I think the "oh, we need to stop using tinder " folks act as if they're too good for that.

It's the current advertising angle of PUAs, McQueen and his crew were even trying to hype their marketing around that "why are you using tinder? quit being a beta and ditch tinder. Real alphas don't use tinder" stuff. Ironically (if I remember correctly) some of his products talk about online profiles.

The only thing I can say is....Adapt or die. Sure, the hot girls will always be somewhere but it won't be places joe can just walk in. For the record I don't use tinder but I do use other online sites.

[DRE]

I agree with most of the sentiments above. I use tinder, but would honestly prefer a world without it. If tinder did not exist (and social media for that matter), women would be reliant upon day and night time game to get validation. Since these apps do exist, it changes the entire landscape of game.

The problem I have with tinder is that though it leads to lays, it does not teach you anything about yourself and does not lead to self improvement. I used to think that getting lays just for the sake of getting lays was the goal for men (myself included). After getting a certain number of lays, I realized that the best part of game is the self improvement it leads to in other aspects of life. Tinder does not provide the same results, as it does not require the same social skill and bravery that real life pulls requires. So although tinder surely does lead to easy sex, it does not build a man like real world experience does. It also does not lead to the same level of funny stories of successes and failures as going out with 1 or 2 buddies and hitting the pavement does. Just my opinion.

[churros]

If tinder is your only resource, and you've got no game, then you're beta.

If you've got game, then tinder is just a bonus. But too many players get reliant on it, hampering their game.

For me, the ROI on tinder is lower than real life. And there's nothing better than banging some some random chick off the street. That is a legitimate source of pride.

With online, you're being cucked by the Zuck of your pride as a player.

[McCarthy]

Tinder has given me abundance mentality, which quickly boosted my confidence and improved my game. I would not be that negative about it. Especially for folks who are terribly busy. Honestly, it is fantastic having sex with 95% probability in less than two hours of having met a girl and having spent less than $10.

I think that Tinder has been a low kick to PUA gurus, since tight game is not that much need anymore.

[kaotic]

Honestly I barely game from Tinder anymore, I currently have 185 matches, of which 40 new matches which I haven't even responded to.

That's just 1 of 2 accounts I have, the other I have 100+ matches and I think about 30 new matches I haven't even opened.

Tinder just got old and stale - I started using Bumble ALOT the last few months and with better results because the girls open you (horribly) so on top of just your looks they're actually interested in you.

It's shooting fish in a barrel.

For a guy like me who works 7 days a week, has an active social life, goes to concerts alot, and at this point I pretty much have a new main girl. I also am typically in public at the gym after work I get out around 8 so that gives me time to go home, shower, eat, and maybe go on a date. Not much time is available to go out solo dolo or actively approach girls.

Dating apps are easy to find new leads, new pussy, new plates, and there's so many girls to go through in my area.

My response time to girls is horrible now, sometimes I won't reply for a day or two, or use simple word replies, I only am active if I'm trying to meet them soon.

Like today, I'm sending restart texts, to double book dates for everyday this week for example.


The thing I completely disagree on is it doesn't take "game" or "that much game" which is absolutely bullshit.

1. You need openers, tailored for the girls, your area, or your personality.
2. You need game to actively ENGAGE these girls on a dating app.
3. You need game to deal with shit tests, and rejection of number, it take game to overcome that and get the number.
4. You need game to number close her FAST.
5. You need game to text her, to send nudes, to set the date up.
6. You need game when moving from text into actual conversation.
7. You need game to deal with ASD/Shit Tests in person because she "just met you from an app"

I can go on and on, but meeting a girl online is an EXTRA layer of things you need to go through (it's a given). To me, it sharpens my game and tools I'll whip out if I run into anything.

It agree it DOES help to take time off and come back to it later, I do that from time to time, especially if I'm banging my main girl and have a rotation that's full.


I still advocate that dating apps SHOULD BE SUPPLEMENTARY to regular approaching/circle game/etc.

[CleanSlate]

Nater, thanks for sharing your story! Awesome job.

kaotic - agreed 100%. You still need game to engage chicks online but it's a major time sink and not as interesting as pulling from the street or club.

[ivansirko]

Interesting it seems while your quantity has decreased your quality has improved. Keep it up guys.

Quote:

I still advocate that dating apps SHOULD BE SUPPLEMENTARY to regular approaching/circle game/etc.

This. It was the case even 15 years ago when online dating was a new thing. To me nothing has changed except the tech.

[McCarthy]

(12-04-2016 08:32 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

The thing I completely disagree on is it doesn't take "game" or "that much game" which is absolutely bullshit.

1. You need openers, tailored for the girls, your area, or your personality.
2. You need game to actively ENGAGE these girls on a dating app.
3. You need game to deal with shit tests, and rejection of number, it take game to overcome that and get the number.
4. You need game to number close her FAST.
5. You need game to text her, to send nudes, to set the date up.
6. You need game when moving from text into actual conversation.
7. You need game to deal with ASD/Shit Tests in person because she "just met you from an app"

Sometimes I feel that PUA understanding of dating is a little bit like the understanding of academics have of a particular discipline.

You established 7 points of necessary game conditions to get laid on Tinder. Let me tell you:

1. OK, I agree.
2. Girls who are there and reply to you are already engaged with minimal cost.
3. I normally get the number in less than 10 messages. My way? "hey Tinder, does not work well...". Yeah, I’ve been doing that for two years and still works.
4. As I said, getting the number, not that tough.
5. I have never sent or requested nudes. What a waste of time.
6. Call her.
7. I actually have never encountered such situation. Chicks know very well why they are on tinder.

Obviously, this is just my particular case and may not be statistically significant. I am also a foreigner in the US, which may provide me "scarcity value". On the other hand, I have terrible photos. And my profile description is "6 ft. From XXXX"

[Schlep]

Not trying to derail the thread but, I think tinder doesn't have anything to do with it.

You busted your ass for how long to achieve your goal of becoming location independent. I think your lonely and tired of having the same conversations over and over. Tired of going on the same kinds of dates over and over. Plus, the need for male companionship. Maybe you think about marriage and miss your family.

If I'm wrong on these assumptions then I apologize.

[McCarthy]

(12-04-2016 09:51 PM)Schlep Wrote:  

Not trying to derail the thread but, I think tinder doesn't have anything to do with it.

You busted your ass for how long to achieve your goal of becoming location independent. I think your lonely and tired of having the same conversations over and over. Tired of going on the same kinds of dates over and over. Plus, the need for male companionship. Maybe you think about marriage and miss your family.

If I'm wrong on these assumptions then I apologize.

That happened to me as well. I ended up getting laid without any apparent purpose. It was a repetitive pastime.

[mikado]

Lifetime notchcount: 17

1: social circle (school)
1: night game
1: she picked me up in the street, she only fucked black guys

The rest: online dating


My cold approach skills sucks, my night game sucks too. I just can't pull even a 5 in night game (and it pains me a lot, believe me).
The online dating sites/apps I used are : formerly Meetic, now Adopteunmec. I suck HARD at Tinder too. Why do I manage to get laid with AdopteUnMec?

Because unlike with Tinder, I have to fill several informations about me, my tastes, who I am, who I expect. I have a somewhat poetic and artistic side so it shows in my description. I have maybe 2 out of 10 girls max who want to talk to me after reading it (especially since I hate taking pictures and only use one of myself from 5 years ago, when I was 20 -however it is a really cool one), because I am not that attractive physically. However I am good at chatting.

My chatting skills got me a lot of dates in 2015 that did not work because I would not use enough sexual tension, and my logistics were beyond subpar. Now I pretty much convert all the dates I get (8 bangs out of 10 dates online dates from september to november in 2016)

The key word is: attractiveness. I can't go too much into details but my face (and body) are not those of someone who can instantly attract girls' attention. In night game (and Tinder setting) I get DESTROYED (I even had a drunken post about it on the forum lol). How did I get to bang those girls though? Because they had at least a bit of attraction towards me, after reading my description. The follow-up of my conversations was good enough so that they pretty much wanted to have sex with me BEFORE even meeting me. Which helped mitigate the damage that inevitably happened when they saw me IRL on our date.

I won't be at all on Tinder, but I have to accept that for now I can't get laid without using online game (specifically AdopteUnMec). I know that this could change if I focused more on weightifting and built a stronger and more muscular body. Due to lots of work for my thesis I could not carry that on since September. However as soon as I find some stability at work, social life, and get more confidence in myself I will do that.

Meanwhile I will use my chatting skills (who can be pretty good in attracting women like I said, but only if I manage to get physical attraction beforehand, which is a really struggling task for me) on the internet.

Good luck to everyone who does the challenge.

[kaotic]

(12-04-2016 08:48 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

Nater, thanks for sharing your story! Awesome job.

kaotic - agreed 100%. You still need game to engage chicks online but it's a major time sink and not as interesting as pulling from the street or club.

I agree it can be a time sink, fortunately I'm really efficient with how I spend time on those apps and how the crafted messages I send them and get their numbers.

Agreed it isn't as interesting as in person, however, a guy like me isn't interested in clubs, and I'm typically driving and never on streets. I get you what you're saying of course.

Quote:

I still advocate that dating apps SHOULD BE SUPPLEMENTARY to regular approaching/circle game/etc.

This. It was the case even 15 years ago when online dating was a new thing. To me nothing has changed except the tech.
[/quote]

Agreed the tech has changed, the have also (for the worse), approaching in person is always the way to go, if I ever find an opening I try to take it and always kick myself if I don't.

(12-04-2016 09:48 PM)McCarthy Wrote:  

(12-04-2016 08:32 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

The thing I completely disagree on is it doesn't take "game" or "that much game" which is absolutely bullshit.

1. You need openers, tailored for the girls, your area, or your personality.
2. You need game to actively ENGAGE these girls on a dating app.
3. You need game to deal with shit tests, and rejection of number, it take game to overcome that and get the number.
4. You need game to number close her FAST.
5. You need game to text her, to send nudes, to set the date up.
6. You need game when moving from text into actual conversation.
7. You need game to deal with ASD/Shit Tests in person because she "just met you from an app"

Sometimes I feel that PUA understanding of dating is a little bit like the understanding of academics have of a particular discipline.

You established 7 points of necessary game conditions to get laid on Tinder. Let me tell you:

1. OK, I agree.
2. Girls who are there and reply to you are already engaged with minimal cost. (Agreed, but it's up to your game to make them invest more)
3. I normally get the number in less than 10 messages. My way? "hey Tinder, does not work well...". Yeah, I’ve been doing that for two years and still works. (Agreed, I use this as well, or the "I don't use this much, let's text") (Ramping up the comfort in less than 10 messages takes game)
4. As I said, getting the number, not that tough. (To some it might not be, to plenty of newbies they need to learn this)
5. I have never sent or requested nudes. What a waste of time. (I was being sarcastic on that front, I've only asked for selfies to make sure these girls aren't SIF's) (Why see nudes when you can see her naked in person !)
6. Call her. (Agreed, but what happens when she doesn't answer or "is busy" ?) (Girls love to text, that's a fact)
7. I actually have never encountered such situation. Chicks know very well why they are on tinder. (I'm talking about off Tinder when she's in your bed, a woman's hamster knows no bounds, soothing that hamster, comfort game, making sure she's safe around, defeating LMR, all of that takes game)


Obviously, this is just my particular case and may not be statistically significant. I am also a foreigner in the US, which may provide me "scarcity value". On the other hand, I have terrible photos. And my profile description is "6 ft. From XXXX"

You absolutely have scarcity value, being 6ft and foreign alone, will have women flocking to you, which is awesome ! It's pretty clear you use that factor in pulling these females.

Average guys are going to need game online to standout from guys like you or model looks guys, or 6ft+ guys, etc etc.

Some guys hit the genetic jackpot and slay it online with ease, some struck out, I'm speaking about those men.

[McCarthy]

Quote:

(12-04-2016 09:48 PM)McCarthy Wrote:  

(12-04-2016 08:32 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

The thing I completely disagree on is it doesn't take "game" or "that much game" which is absolutely bullshit.

1. You need openers, tailored for the girls, your area, or your personality.
2. You need game to actively ENGAGE these girls on a dating app.
3. You need game to deal with shit tests, and rejection of number, it take game to overcome that and get the number.
4. You need game to number close her FAST.
5. You need game to text her, to send nudes, to set the date up.
6. You need game when moving from text into actual conversation.
7. You need game to deal with ASD/Shit Tests in person because she "just met you from an app"

Sometimes I feel that PUA understanding of dating is a little bit like the understanding of academics have of a particular discipline.

You established 7 points of necessary game conditions to get laid on Tinder. Let me tell you:

1. OK, I agree.
2. Girls who are there and reply to you are already engaged with minimal cost. (Agreed, but it's up to your game to make them invest more)
3. I normally get the number in less than 10 messages. My way? "hey Tinder, does not work well...". Yeah, I’ve been doing that for two years and still works. (Agreed, I use this as well, or the "I don't use this much, let's text") (Ramping up the comfort in less than 10 messages takes game)
4. As I said, getting the number, not that tough. (To some it might not be, to plenty of newbies they need to learn this)
5. I have never sent or requested nudes. What a waste of time. (I was being sarcastic on that front, I've only asked for selfies to make sure these girls aren't SIF's) (Why see nudes when you can see her naked in person !)
6. Call her. (Agreed, but what happens when she doesn't answer or "is busy" ?) (Girls love to text, that's a fact)
7. I actually have never encountered such situation. Chicks know very well why they are on tinder. (I'm talking about off Tinder when she's in your bed, a woman's hamster knows no bounds, soothing that hamster, comfort game, making sure she's safe around, defeating LMR, all of that takes game)


Obviously, this is just my particular case and may not be statistically significant. I am also a foreigner in the US, which may provide me "scarcity value". On the other hand, I have terrible photos. And my profile description is "6 ft. From XXXX"

You absolutely have scarcity value, being 6ft and foreign alone, will have women flocking to you, which is awesome ! It's pretty clear you use that factor in pulling these females.

Average guys are going to need game online to standout from guys like you or model looks guys, or 6ft+ guys, etc etc.

Some guys hit the genetic jackpot and slay it online with ease, some struck out, I'm speaking about those men.

Oh wow. Sometimes I forgot how it was for me before learning game: pathetic thirsty beta I was. Thanks for reminding me, I did not realize how much of game I was already applying on tinder. And also, how much easier may it have been for me for being tall and foreigner.

Tinder may not be that easy after all for most of men. It has probably done much harm than good for most of them.

[Naughty By Nature]

Online dating has sadly nearly destroyed real life dating.

It has caused men to become even more beta and reclusive while causing even the most ghastly women to have limitless options (a 400 lb. woman with warts can log onto her dating profile to find 50 messages/day from desperate dudes).

Very sad state of affairs.