[brosenthal91]

I'm studying Russian in school right now and have the opportunity to study abroad for two months in St. Petersburg over the summer. This data sheet is making it seem like a great idea, thanks Entropy!

[Roosh]

Quote:

I'm in Saint Petersburg and it was a wakeup call for me. Language barrier is huge. (yes, only 10% of population might speak english, and my survival level russian, which corresponds to around 200 hours class room and 200 hours of personal study hours) are not cutting it

400 hours of language instruction and you still find it difficult to communicate? I find this hard to believe, and that's coming from a guy who studied 100 hours of Polish, a harder language. My Polish does suck, but I was able to use that and very basic English to take conversations forward in club environments.

[James_London]

(11-07-2011 12:50 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:

I'm in Saint Petersburg and it was a wakeup call for me. Language barrier is huge. (yes, only 10% of population might speak english, and my survival level russian, which corresponds to around 200 hours class room and 200 hours of personal study hours) are not cutting it

400 hours of language instruction and you still find it difficult to communicate? I find this hard to believe, and that's coming from a guy who studied 100 hours of Polish, a harder language. My Polish does suck, but I was able to use that and very basic English to take conversations forward in club environments.

Roosh,

EU and UK effect, more polish speak english than russians. I would estimate that at least 40% of Polish youngsters speak English vs 10% Russians. UK was the only large EU country allowing Poles to come and work after Poland joined EU and Polish plumber is a know fact there.

400 hours means 200 hours individual lessons (A2/B1 in EU definition, means survival level). In russian, one needs an additional 1000 hours or so to be comfortable in normal conversations based on my research and experience so far.

With my 3 hours BBC CD's and basic russian I was already pulling in holiday resorts but there girls already have higher buying temperature and there is also a comfort element because everybody stays in the same resort and one can run into the girls a few times and then pull.

But my game in London was geared towards going to groups (as Mystery observed, better looking hotties are in groups). My experience in Russia is that those girls who can speak English are not that hot and the number is limited (I was getting much hotter Russian girls who can speak perfect english in London or even in Antalya).

Just to give you an example of my last Saturday, I opened this 3 set coz the hottest girl in this particular club was in this set, really really my type and 22 year old young (I'm 35). It's 3 set, the one who speaks english is an 7 on the famous 1-10 scale (for me), and she is into me, but I still pull the 9 to another room, but language is a problem, and after while it just dies out.

However, if I don't rely on my verbal game but just open everyone and settle for a 6 or 7 level girl, I guess it's ok, but that requires too much effort for too little result. After all, I also think about getting up reasonable time in the morning as I have other interests.

Hope this is a clearer picture of what one get here.

[Roosh]

Thanks for the explanation. By the time I get to a Russian speaking country I'll have to make due with about ~200 hours of study, so we'll see how it goes. Like you said you'll have to use a lot of the nonverbals to get things going.

[Pilgrim37]

(11-08-2011 08:33 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Thanks for the explanation. By the time I get to a Russian speaking country I'll have to make due with about ~200 hours of study, so we'll see how it goes. Like you said you'll have to use a lot of the nonverbals to get things going.

What's your travel plans?
Back home for Christmas or staying East and further adventure and exploration from Poland?

[Entropy4]

I'll back up what James is saying. By the time I got to Ukraine, I had put in about 150 hours of study, most of which happened in St. Petersburg. I could say basic things, ask for directions, order food, etc. I could open girls in Russian and get far enough to find out if she spoke any English, ask where she was from, and stuff like that. But I can't say it really helped my results at all. In fact, if anything, it just slowed the screening process down. I've laid girls before without speaking any of each other's languages, but for whatever reason Russian/Ukrainian women seemed to have no patience whatsoever for language barriers. The girls who speak English are on you like white on rice, but the ones who don't really don't care to sit around and fuck with your mangled pronunciation or to embarrass themselves trying to remember the 10 words they learned in high school.

Like James said, in places like Poland or Czech or Hungary, even though most girls don't speak English, almost all of them know at least a little. They can ask your name, ask where you're from, etc. So you're not totally lost. But in Russia/Ukraine, when people say 90% don't speak any English, they mean none. Literally not a word. Not even "hello" or "how are you?" or anything.

I've kept up my studying and plan on going back next summer to do another few months of classes. Hopefully by the end of that I should be fairly conversational. We'll see what happens.

[James_London]

(11-08-2011 08:33 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Thanks for the explanation. By the time I get to a Russian speaking country I'll have to make due with about ~200 hours of study, so we'll see how it goes. Like you said you'll have to use a lot of the nonverbals to get things going.

Roosh,

I don't exactly know your gaming style, but, if you can afford to go out several days out here, and enjoy (and experienced) pulling girls with high enough BT, than, by all means include Russia into your travel plans. If you reliabably and consistenly get girls with non-verbals, go for it.

My game in London was relient on verbals (I took 2 bootcams from 2 well know companies, and they both rely on verbal elements plus holding court), which means English speaking world or someone who understands English pretty well. This was already getting me hot girls and consistency was increasing, and I was also getting great access to top London clubs.

Kiev has an advanced night club scene, and a lot of girls speak English, so, I was able to find an almost ideal girl in a week and spend a whole month with her (got her number in 15 minutes before cocblocks pulled her away), and I also dated several girls there.

However, when I came to Russia, suddenly, I realized nobody speaks English, oops. As said, if you love russian girls, by all means learn 1000 hours of russian and go for it (after 1000 hours, girls will start teaching you and getting 5000 hours worth of russian will be much much faster).

Plus, I came here to learn first Russian, then focus on my business, and then pick up girls.

It reminds me of the research done on Taxi drivers in New York City. They found out that Taxi drivers don't think rationaly. Let me explain:

When there is less than ideal number passengers, Taxi drivers waited longer than 8 hours on the streets, sometimes up to 12/14 hours to earn money. However, if there were a lot of passengers, they closed shop after 8 hours and went home. However, if they did the exact opposite, they would have made more money and felt better.

[James_London]

(11-08-2011 10:49 AM)Entropy4 Wrote:  

I'll back up what James is saying. By the time I got to Ukraine, I had put in about 150 hours of study, most of which happened in St. Petersburg. I could say basic things, ask for directions, order food, etc. I could open girls in Russian and get far enough to find out if she spoke any English, ask where she was from, and stuff like that. But I can't say it really helped my results at all. In fact, if anything, it just slowed the screening process down. I've laid girls before without speaking any of each other's languages, but for whatever reason Russian/Ukrainian women seemed to have no patience whatsoever for language barriers. The girls who speak English are on you like white on rice, but the ones who don't really don't care to sit around and fuck with your mangled pronunciation or to embarrass themselves trying to remember the 10 words they learned in high school.

Like James said, in places like Poland or Czech or Hungary, even though most girls don't speak English, almost all of them know at least a little. They can ask your name, ask where you're from, etc. So you're not totally lost. But in Russia/Ukraine, when people say 90% don't speak any English, they mean none. Literally not a word. Not even "hello" or "how are you?" or anything.

I've kept up my studying and plan on going back next summer to do another few months of classes. Hopefully by the end of that I should be fairly conversational. We'll see what happens.

Entropy,

how did your typical gaming day / night look like here? (russia or ukraine etc)

Like, when did you start gaming, how long did you that, what was the rejection / or no go sets due to any type of frictions like language etc..?

[Entropy4]

I didn't do much day game. Going out at night was pretty typical. Get out at 10PM or so. Tons of rejections, but mostly based on language barrier. I'm pretty tall, good-looking and well-dressed, so I got a lot of attention when I went out. But as soon as it was clear I didn't speak Russian, most girls had no patience for me.

In St. Petersburg, I found some bars where girls looking for foreigners hung out and parlayed that to my advantage. Also pipelined English-speakers on Mamba and CS and either hooked up with them or met their friends. I ended shacking up with a girl for most of my time in St. Petersburg, but still banged a few girls my first week there.

I agree that the hottest girls are all non-English-speakers, but you can still find some good-looking English-speakers. So I stuck to them. Effort/reward and all of that. I'm not going to work 10x as hard for a girl who is 20% hotter when I'm just going to be leaving in a week anyway. I also kind of lucked out and found a very hot English-speaker the second week I was there. So I just shacked up with her the rest of my time.

I plan on going back for three months next summer and my Russian will be better. So things may play out differently next time.

[iknowexactly]

If you have the balls to go with zero and have someone to hang out with who is equally bad at English who wants to learn you can move pretty quick with dictionaries and total immersion.

Of course you'll always be a clod with Russian, but Slavic chicks are worth it in my opinion.
I'll admit I don't have the experience with Brazilian, Columbian chicks to compare.

Only the slow death of MurkaChick derision.

Russia is so much more romantic and impressive to me: The symphonies, the ballet, the writers...

Look at it from a contrarian investment POV: It's hard, no one wants to do it, cats are telling you it can't be done.

To me, that's a setup for success- if you are the cat with the balls to go through the fire.

[Hooligan Harry]

Chaps, Im telling you again.

Pipeline. Pipeline. Pipeline.

There is a shortage of men in Russia. By going online, you isolate the women who can speak English, are single and have no problems with you being a foreigner. If you want to go through the process of picking up, then your best bet is to identify the expat bars or clubs where foreigners tend to be. The women who go there are more likely to speak English.

Being able to do the basics is whats handy. Ask for directions, broken communication with a shop keeper, buying a train ticket. Opening a chick in broken Russian might be endearing to some of them, but most wont think much of it.

There really is no stigma attached to it there. Not like in the west. Women talk about going online to find men like you talk about going online to buy music.

I will say one thing though. Along with Spanish, I cannot think of a better language to learn if you travel. Russian is spoken right across EE and its a second language for many people, albeit a dying one. Not only that, but I have picked up women outside of Russia because of it. My recent trip to Thailand I fucked a Belorussian stripper after I started chatting to her in Russian. I stuck it to a Ukrainian in Sydney last year after a long conversation in Russian had her all warmed up. Those are two of a few occasions outside EE its worked for me. Russian is not widely spoken by foreigners, let alone in foreign countries they travel to.

I think for Americans, Spanish is a must these days. So many reasons to learn it. The next best language IMO is Russian. Sure Mandarin, Hindi, Bengali or Portuguese are more widely spoken, but the places you are hunting are going to be predominantly English, Spanish or Russian in most cases. You cover far more with those three than any others IMO

[Entropy4]

I will say that Russian women I've met in the US have absolutely wet themselves with excitement when I pulled out some Russian phrases on them. As usual, you actually get the most mileage out of a foreign language by using it on foreign girls back home.

Slavic chicks have the reputation of being bitchy, gold-diggers. I'm done trying to tell guys otherwise. Leaves more of them for me. Russian women are up there with Brazilian women as my favorite women in the world.

[Gariell]

Why are Slavic chicks bitchy gold diggers? communist environment? How do you specifically game these type of girls?

[Entropy4]

(11-09-2011 12:21 PM)Gariell Wrote:  

Why are Slavic chicks bitchy gold diggers? communist environment? How do you specifically game these type of girls?

You don't. Let me have them.

[James_London]

(11-08-2011 10:04 PM)Entropy4 Wrote:  

I didn't do much day game. Going out at night was pretty typical. Get out at 10PM or so. Tons of rejections, but mostly based on language barrier. I'm pretty tall, good-looking and well-dressed, so I got a lot of attention when I went out. But as soon as it was clear I didn't speak Russian, most girls had no patience for me.

In St. Petersburg, I found some bars where girls looking for foreigners hung out and parlayed that to my advantage. Also pipelined English-speakers on Mamba and CS and either hooked up with them or met their friends. I ended shacking up with a girl for most of my time in St. Petersburg, but still banged a few girls my first week there.

I agree that the hottest girls are all non-English-speakers, but you can still find some good-looking English-speakers. So I stuck to them. Effort/reward and all of that. I'm not going to work 10x as hard for a girl who is 20% hotter when I'm just going to be leaving in a week anyway. I also kind of lucked out and found a very hot English-speaker the second week I was there. So I just shacked up with her the rest of my time.

I plan on going back for three months next summer and my Russian will be better. So things may play out differently next time.

Entropy, I read your Data Sheet again and your replies in general. Yes, language barrier seems to be the main game theme in Russia.

I had a similar experience in Kiev, I found a very hot english speaker in Patipa my first week and was together with her for a whole month, and still met with several other girls who could speak real good english (guess, Ukraine being poored, girls wanna just get out of the country)

But in Russia, I was in Niznhy, Moscow, and now in SP. All the girls I spoke to (mostly groups), have the same theme, namely, the hottie cannot speak english, but her uglier friend can.

In Mamba, I started pipelining real late (still 2/3 weeks before I came here) but it took me some time to realize to focus solely on English speakers (saying hi to a random girl is a total waste of time as even I get bored after writing in Russian, can only imagine what the girl feels)

All in all, everything is fair. I did my research on Kiev back then, and went out almost every night there and was on top condition when it was Saturday where I met my ideal girl.

However, in SP, I was a bit lazy on research side (other commitments) and I didn't have the ideal experience. But lesson learned.

If I come to SP or another russian city again, I will certainly do a better research, and go out every night the first week, and then, finding a hottie is no problem, then I can re-focus on other commitments and meet my hottie every other day.


PS: I just had a Mamba date with an OK looking Ukrainian in an Irish pub and I saw quiete a few tables with hot girls, just looking directly into my eye. This is another theme, weekdays, night club scene is dead, but bars/pubs have girls or groups sitting in tables, so, frequenting those places will give one a good chance. Pitty, I'm gonna leave in a week, but, good learning lessons I suppose.

[James_London]

(08-10-2011 09:18 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Thanks oldnem and entropy for the answers.

The women there sound a lot like Polish girls, but in Poland about 50% speak english, minorities are welcome, it's cheaper, the women are more flirty/warm before sex, and you don't have visa issues. Poland can be a fuck fest if you go hard, but unless you speak Russian I don't see if that's possible in Russia. It doesn't sound like Russia has an advantage except for the fact that it's more raw/edgy, which while fun, doesn't really matter to me.

In other words, Russia seems like a harder version of Poland with girls that may be slightly better looking. I still want to check it out, but I've lowered my expectations by quite a bit. If I can go there, bang a few cuties, and not get jumped by skinheads who think I'm muslim, it will be a great success.

I had formed a feel for SP and decided to have quick look at the forum before I go out, but hey, Roosh just formulated my feel and conclusion.

My conclusion is that the marginal gain is almost non-existent, and marginal loss in terms of frustration is too high (for me, I have tight game in UK and Germany, as I speak both languages and have had a few bootcamps and they were immensely beneficial for me). When I was in Paris or Amsterday, finding english speakers was much easier.

However, for some reason if you come to SP for a week or so, and can dedicate 5/6 days a week to pick up, and have a game plan such as trying to identify english speakers by speaking to an immense number of targets, then, by all means come here. For this, I would suggest SP, or Moscow. I've been to NN (3rd or 4th largest city) and weekdays are pretty dead.

Last night is a decent example of why I'm simply taking it easy tonight. In the square where MOD club is, there is another small club I liked. Quality of women is good. I chill out, open over the shoulder a few girls, and they all are warm to me. First one can barely speak english (bear in mind these are the only girls I found attractive) so I get frustrated as this is the usual menu. My game usually is based on opening the girl, speaking to cockblocks as well to pre-empt and unfriendly attacks from the, it's gold as Mystery etc... mentions. However, without people speaking English, I cannot progress with my girl. Everynow and then, some ug friend happens to be speaking english, and I'm expected to chat with them as my target (usually hotties without BFs) cannot speak anything beyond a word or two. Same thing happened in Moscow, hotties CANNOT speak English, they don't have any incentive to learn it, unlike Polish chicks.

The second girl I like is with her girl friend, she is into me, we dance, when I hold her hands, she's immediately squezing back, and was kissable (too early into interaction). Well, her english is almost non-existent either (she learned German, can utter some German, but again, that's non-existent to hold a convo either). It just dies down, gradually, but it certainly dies down.

It brings mind some form of margin of safety concept (as Warren Buffet / Ben Graham uses it). I always felt that, if the threshold to get into the pants of a hottie is, let's say 100 PU coins, and I can bring in 150 coins for whatever reason (be it PU training, be it being on holiday mood, be it that I just closed a business transaction, or made my banker bonus), then I just enjoy the game and I can be sure that I will get the girl either tonight or two days later, and a girl I can do it 5 times a night. That's how I was getting my hot Russians, Polish, English in other countries.

However, if I put in 100-110 units of PU money, the results seem to be just too volatile for my taste. Yes, it is posible, both the probability is low. The only way to get around is to do the numbers game, and steal time and energy from my other activities.

Moral of the story? If you can put in 150% of the value into any interaction with a threshold of 100%, by all means come here, there are more than enough hotties.

Yes, it's also expensive here. Paying almost 10$ for a beer in a night club? Last night, I went to XXXX bar (they have more than a few, looks like a bad version of Coyote Ugly) and they are asking me to pay 1,000 rubles (35 US$, WTF). Now, this is not the usual entry price, it shocked me and I didn't even chat in russian and get in for regular entry price around 10$. As they knew I speak english, they treat me with a speacial one time price On the street I was speaking to a few russian guys and they think that it's normal, they will be treated the same in our countries.

The women are like polish, but don't speak english, and finding ones takes energy, and a lot of energy. It is possible, but too much effort for the reward. Well, by any definition of the word, it's not an abundance.

If you want abundance, positioning is the word. Be an animator in Turkey etc in a holiday resort. They work like 4 months in a holiday resort, and everyweek a new russian group arrives and it's their job to be friendly to speak to russian tourists and at night perform and later take some of the hotel guests to clubs, and they live in abundance, but, the catch is that, those guys don't have much of a career prospect.

Muslim minority scare is total BS and exagerrated. All the streets are cleaned by Central Asian Stanistan immigrants who speak perfect Russia (they were part of russian empire), all the night taxis (and the illegal ones which do crazy slaloms on Nevskiy Prospect) are used by muslim immigrants who speak perfect Russian. If someone tries to rip you off on the street either speak a few russian like Shto, then they think that you have good Russian skills and run away, or speak english, they don't wanna hassle you much. Russia is a country of mixed heritage (look at the picture of Lenin or Putin, they have all those Mongolian, Asian traits)

[Teedub]

May be going here with a Latvian friend, who speaks fluent Russian, in the autumn.

Has anyone been there recently and can provide an update on all that's been discussed here?

[Brosemite]

^^ Last update from late Dec 2013 - http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-25422-...#pid617038

[TripleG]

(03-16-2014 08:40 PM)Brosemite Wrote:  

^^ Last update from late Dec 2013 - http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-25422-...#pid617038

Brosemite, your data sheet on St. Pete from December was top notch. Just wanted to ask if you think you would have done better with a wing vs going there solo? I find solo travel myself quite tough, especially if I do night-life and try to infiltrate sets (hard to approach a group of girls just by oneself and keep all engaged). Also, do you think bar game is worth trying in St. Pete if one is older (mid 30s). It seems from your example that all the places you hit up were full of only student/early 20s hipster types.

[Brosemite]

(03-16-2014 09:45 PM)TripleG Wrote:  

(03-16-2014 08:40 PM)Brosemite Wrote:  

^^ Last update from late Dec 2013 - http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-25422-...#pid617038

Brosemite, your data sheet on St. Pete from December was top notch. Just wanted to ask if you think you would have done better with a wing vs going there solo? I find solo travel myself quite tough, especially if I do night-life and try to infiltrate sets (hard to approach a group of girls just by oneself and keep all engaged). Also, do you think bar game is worth trying in St. Pete if one is older (mid 30s). It seems from your example that all the places you hit up were full of only student/early 20s hipster types.

I had some eff up moments

Friday Night at Lux - University girls I danced with invited me to go with them (perhaps back to their place). It was loud so the Kazak chick interpreted my "yes" as a "I'm just going to stay at bar."

So they left & once I decided to follow, I lost my coat check ticket in my wallet. Took me 5-10 mins to locate the ticket as they were gone by the time I retrieved my jacket.

Saturday Night at Buddha Bar - Once I was finally let in by bouncers and hostess, I took about 20-30 seconds to walk over to some chicks who were not able to get in earlier. They were hot & I wanted to walk in with them, but they decided to cab it back home. Once I got back in line..bouncers were dicks & made me wait in line so I got pissed off & left consequentially.

They key to the upscale places like Buddha or Paradise is to book dinner reservations at 10:30-10:45. They will have a receptionist over the phone who speaks English. It'll be crowded & service will be slow...so once you're done with dinner...you can start gaming chicks in the bar/lounge areas midnight-1AM.

Bouncers will try to screw you over if going for just drinks later in the night by convincing you to get a table, when you're better off roaming around those places. So dinner/drinks with more mobility will be cheaper than an expensive bottle and less mobility.

Other bad breaks included pipelined chicks contacting to meet me after I left (I initially lied indicating I'd be moving there for a project) & just sleeping during the day because I was never able to get over jetlag, which was a big surprise for me.

I typically have no issues gaming alone at nights, but the super dead weeknights (outside of summer) & inability to find Rossi made Wed/Thurs unproductive. For that reason..St. Petersburg newbies would need two sets of weekends to gain a better understanding of the nightlife whereas Kiev from other voices indicate that weeknights will be more popping.

[TripleG]

Thanks, but that still did not address my question. " do you think bar game is worth trying in St. Pete if one is older (mid 30s)." or should one just pipeline hard before heading over there.

For example, when I rolled in Odessa last year just about every club & lounge I hit up I saw plenty of other cats in their 30s/40s going for women much younger, so I basically felt in my "comfort zone". In Washington, DC where I live it is exceedingly rare to see an older guy out with a much younger women, I would almost say it is taboo here since women have so much selection here and guys outnumber women.

[Brosemite]

(03-17-2014 12:34 PM)TripleG Wrote:  

Thanks, but that still did not address my question. " do you think bar game is worth trying in St. Pete if one is older (mid 30s)." or should one just pipeline hard before heading over there.

For example, when I rolled in Odessa last year just about every club & lounge I hit up I saw plenty of other cats in their 30s/40s going for women much younger, so I basically felt in my "comfort zone". In Washington, DC where I live it is exceedingly rare to see an older guy out with a much younger women, I would almost say it is taboo here since women have so much selection here and guys outnumber women.

It's definitely common & cool for older guys to be with younger chicks in Russia. Pipelining is very important. I went when it was almost holidays not to mention every girl got the notion I was "moving there" so they could only meet the "2nd week" when I had already left, haha.

Buddha, Laque, and Paradise will probably be your best bet for older guys meeting younger chicks. At least for Buddha/Paradise on a Friday & Sat...book dinner reservations for 10:30 in order to avoid the face control bullshit. There are some upscale girls in the hipster bars, but they might already be taken.

[Lucky Luke]

I'm now in St Petersburg and will stay here till Friday (going to Minsk for the weekend). Loving the city but finding hard to find good places to go out during the week. Can you guys help me find them?

(Full disclosure: I'm Mexican and have been gaming in Barcelona for the last 7 years, so I think I'm not that bad at it. Usually do quite well with Eastern European girls. Would like to go to spots with quality chicks. I also speak basic conversational Russian)

[newarrior]

Entropy4

Love it ! Russia sounds like hell

(08-10-2011 06:42 AM)Entropy4 Wrote:  

(08-10-2011 06:16 AM)julio26 Wrote:  

Very nice! I was expecting a data sheet on St Petersburg for long
+1

Can you give us an idea of the range of prices you saw?
(Since Moscow is super expensive)

Honestly, Russia is the anti-Thailand. You pay a lot and get very little. I had a shitty tiny studio apartment in the center of the city and paid about $1000 a month. Food is anywhere from $7-15 for a shitty dish (super small portions as well). $6-8 drinks.

It's expensive. Not quite Manhattan or London prices, but almost. I'd budget at least $2000-3000 a month if you want to live in a good area and plan on going out a lot.

[BTman]

Has anyone been here for NYE? I have heard the New year time is one big party, but that was somewhat unsubstantiated.

Thinking about it this year, mainly because of the devaluation, but am wondering if the anti-american sentiment is too high right now.