[Horus]

I'd like to hear some thoughts on the ab machines I see at the gym.



I've leaned down to the point where my abs are beginning to make an appearance. My workout consists of squats, deads, presses, pullups, dips and a little dumbbell work.

So a couple of weeks ago I decided to add a few ab exercises to the end of my workout, such as leg raises etc.The problem is that I absolutely HATE doing these. For some reason I find all body weight exercises (except pull ups and dips) extremely boring, and from past experience, I know that if I find an exercise boring I will not keep it up for long. However when I tried the weighted ab machines I quite enjoyed them.

The general consensus on the internet, however, is that ab machines are a poor substitute for bodyweight ab workouts, with some even going so far as to say they are worthless. I find that a little hard to believe as I could really feel the squeeze in my abs, especially when I concentrated on the muscle contraction.

What do you guys think? Are ab machines really that ineffective? Would it be better than nothing if I knew I couldn't keep up with a bodyweight ab routine?

[eatthishomie]

They help a little bit as long as it isn't the only thing you are doing for your abs.

However, like a lot of ab exercises, they put a lot of strain on your lower back and could lead to overuse injuries so I don't recommend using them.

Planks, leg raises, and isometric leg lifts are all better, as well as these exercises:
http://absexperiment.com/9-ab-exercises-...back-pain/

You only get one lower back, don't fuck it up.

[Germanicus]

Why use a device that mimics sit ups when you can just do sit ups? Especially When sit ups done naturally offer a safer range of motion.

Anything an ab machine does bodyweight ab exercises do better and safer.

[Lagavulin]

I'd rather do hanging leg raises and exercises that target your deep core muscles such as planks and kettle bell swings over most common ab exercises. More efficient and better for your body.

Squats and deadlifts engage your core/abs to a greater degree than a lot of so called ab exercises. There are smarter choices you can make than an ab machine, even sit ups can strain your lower back.

I shudder at some of the ways I trained in my twenties, can't get away with it anymore.

[eatthishomie]

Yes squats and deadlifts engage your core but I do recommend additional core training (planks, leg lifts, etc) even if you're on a beginner program like Starting Strength - especially on a beginner program actually because the core and stabilizers are your body's foundation and having them well trained can spare you from injury. I wish I had trained my core more - I drank the Kool aid that you don't need additional core training for a long time and my core is very weak and lagging badly now. I think some of the injuries I've had are at least an indirect result of that.

[Lagavulin]

(10-28-2016 03:15 PM)eatthishomie Wrote:  

Yes squats and deadlifts engage your core but I do recommend additional core training (planks, leg lifts, etc) even if you're on a beginner program like Starting Strength - especially on a beginner program actually because the core and stabilizers are your body's foundation and having them well trained can spare you from injury. I wish I had trained my core more - I drank the Kool aid that you don't need additional core training for a long time and my core is very weak and lagging badly now. I think some of the injuries I've had are at least an indirect result of that.

I agree. I have a long term back injury as a result of neglecting my core in years gone by. A solid core regimen is essential to any balanced training programme.

[ScrapperTL]

Is your goal to have a very strong core or a visible abdominal wall?

My favorite way to train abs:
1) Plank variations, these feel so good and you can easily add weight with a little creativity.
2) Lock out your arms on a Dip Bar and do Bent Knee Raises to Failure (I'm not sure what this exercise is called, Stiff Arm Bent Knee Raise?)
Abs will be burning!
3) Again, goto the Dip Bar and this time do Straight Leg Lifts (Locked out) to Failure, with Forearms resting on pad - I have no idea what this is called either... someone help me out!
4) Standard Sit up variations, twisting elbows, twisting knees, bicycling, etc...

These 4 exercises will make your core very strong, with great muscular endurance and some size.

-------------------------------------------

Now in terms of visibility, this is all diet.
Intermittent Fasting + Low Carbs will get you to Bodybuilder level Body Fat %
The above strategy is my absolute guarantee (as long as you don't have a thyroid problem)

If I want to get absolutely shredded to the bone, I'm talking veins ripping out of my shoulders, abs and lats - I follow this routine:
1) Only eat food from 3:30pm to 9:30pm (6 hour window)
2) Only eat Fruits, Vegetables, Meat, Seafood and Nuts

With this plan I don't even have to count calories and I will get ultra diced.

Also, I recommend walking outside in nature for 30 minutes a day, as many days a week as you can.
Cutting or bulking, just in general this is a great lifestyle hack.
Walking in nature helps me stay leaner, recover/heal faster and generally feel better.
I don't know the science behind it, don't really care either.
It works.

[MrMagoo]

Abs machines are as good as the person using them. They can fuck your back up. But that's because most people use them like retards. There's nothing wrong with using them, so long as you go through slow, controlled movements and focus on clenching and holding at the peak of the exercise. Then return almost to starting position, but not quite.
If you do it that way, your lower back isn't doing much work outside of the first rep in any set.

The main plus to ab machines is the weight. You can do them heavy, and weighted ab exercises are not abundant in options. No, you shouldn't be flying around doing 30+ crunches like most of the chicks and fat guys I see using the machine for cardio. I'd say ab machine is for getting nice heavy weight, slow controlled reps in. Probably no more than 10 reps, and probably ideally closer to 6.

While on the topic of stomach... Deads are great for overall strength development, but there's one pitfall to them aesthetically. One of the shitty parts about deads, is they don't just engage your abs... they engage your obliques. The closer to your 1rm you're getting, the more they engage. Which gives you a thicker waist and drags down your V-Taper. Be very careful in noting how much your sides are engaged during a dead. The really high stress on your obliques tends to start when you're in the 2-3 rep range. I would personally keep those to a minimum, unless you want to look like a barrel shaped power lifter.

[SegaSaturn1994]

I have not used these machines but they seem far preferable to weighted sit-ups on the floor. I know a guy whose serious back problems started from weightless sit-ups and it's really hard to do them 'clean' without engaging your back in a rather negative way; the discs are being strained hard especially in the traditional sit-ups where you have your legs straight in front of you. They are cringe worthy to me now after my own injuries. I would definitely go for machines if they take the back strain out of the equation and doing any safe back work is better than doing nothing because most people neglect their abs anyway.

[Prof. Ligate]

I'm not trying to hate dude... but just do the hanging leg raises...

I used a machine like you pictured at the end of every one of my Stronglifts workouts for 3+ months and even though it gave my abs a good burn.. it came with niggling back pain

Hanging leg raises will not only save your back compared to those machines, but they also have a clear progression to more advanced movements

[Hannibal]

There's nothing wrong with using machines to train an accessory bodypart, or even a primary movement if you suffer from some injury.

It's not like there is an olympic event in the Plank or the Situp.

If you get better results with a machine for your abs, then use the machine.

I prefer to use bodyweight exercises to train abs because training on the floor gives you some proprioceptive benefits but that doesn't really matter for most folks who just want bigger abs.

[Stoolio]

Having Ab straps for hanging leg raises might make them more fun as you can focus more on the abs and less on the hang. Also adding weight to your feet/ankles just like any other workout can be done to increase challenge and "fun".

Ab pulldowns are an awesome ab workout (2nd favorite to hanging leg raises for me) - although I'm not sure how safe they are for your back. You can go heavy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fbujeH3F0E

L-Sits are solid as well. As you progress you can try transitioning them to handstands/planches which keeps them fun and challenging.

[Repo]

+1 for hanging leg raises, I like using the arm straps so I can focus all my energy on my core. These should be the centerpiece of any ab workout, anything else is just extra. Their great for the bottom half of your abs, which to many girls is the most important part, and which situps and crunches do nothing for.

[redonion]

Hanging leg raises are good.

I would strongly recommend avoiding the common ab exercises like sit-ups and crunches. There is a theory that each human has a finite amount of times they can bend their lower back without problems arising. Not to mention these exercises aren't that useful anyway.

Aside from squats and deadlifts, I like to focus my ab training on anti-rotational exercises. This usually involves some type of weight on one side of your body. You use your core to prevent your body from rotating. My favorite exercise to do is to grab a 25lb dumbbell, press it above my head with one arm, and walk with it above my head while squeezing my core. It's harder than it sounds.

I like this article on Cressey's site regarding ab work: http://ericcressey.com/cp-intern-blog-by...he-ab-ante

[Truth Teller]

I really like the standing cable crunch, but I come with more of a PL/OL perspective.

https://www.elitefts.com/education/train...r-athlete/

[spydersuit]

It seems like the scientific evidence is out on this one.

[NickDunne]

I personally prefer the ab machine over sit-ups because sit-ups make me dizzy from the swinging motion of my huge head from horizontal to vertical.