[MdWanderer]

Met this girl at church last month and we have still been talking. We have gone out on four dates so far and she still initiates texts and calls with me.

Here is the thing: she does not like public displays of affection or any touch whatsoever. I have tried the holding hands, arm-in-arm, and makeout, but she is clear she doesn't want to make out with anyone until she is married. I do the arm-in-arm and hand holding, but she accepts it at times and at times she does not. In fairness, she did say on our first date even before we talked that she doesn't consider touching important to a relationship, she wants to take things real slow, and she did not makeout at all with her ex boyfriend who she dated for a year.

But I think I screwed up. She still agrees to dates and texts me from time to time but she does not seem as enthusiastic as she was when we first met. I will admit, I messed up badly. She asked me for the first time whether I was a virgin last week, and I told her "no" (I should've told her it was personal or waited sometime down the road to tell her, but you live and you learn). She said it was her dream to meet a guy who was saved until marriage, and will need to do some "praying" over the situation, but said it was not a dealbreaker and that her friend married a non-virgin and is happy. She at the same time revealed how she was hurt by her ex boyfriend, and wanted the whole time to take things slow and not rush into a relationship because of her past. However, she likes the fact that although I attend church, I am a regular guy who likes to have fun while her ex was a super-religious square (he didn't drink, was a virgin, and didn't listen to any other music than Christian music). I also do things such as holding doors, walking on the side closest to the street, etc., but like to bust her balls and be playful with her too. We have a date currently planned for next Friday she agreed to.

I eventually see myself getting more serious with her myself, but I am not there yet. However, I want to make sure she knows I am in it for the long haul, but not as friends. I am supposed to go gaming tonight with a friend, and want to have other girls in backup in case this goes nowhere. I am afraid I'll invest too much and get hurt. But I want her to get the enthusiasm back that she had for me before. How do I do this? Your help is appreciated.

[roberto]

She better be something real special for you to to go through all that, if you want my honest opinion.

[MdWanderer]

(10-14-2016 12:22 PM)roberto Wrote:  

She better be something real special for you to to go through all that, if you want my honest opinion.

We currently have a lot in common. Same age (31), Black, but her mother is African and was raised in that culture instead of black American culture, we were both abandoned by our fathers and she pledge to stay a virgin because of that experience (her parents were teenagers when she was born), both love sports and the same type of music. She is currently going for her Ph.D and has two years left in the program. Both of our relationship histories were brief (longest relationship was over one year). And she loves to cook.

She is definitely relationship/marriage material but I need to game other girls. I don't want to put too much into it and possibly get hurt in the end. That happened to me in college and I nearly flunked school because of it.

[kaotic]

Did anyone else read that like nails on a chalk board and cringe ?

Now MdWandere I'm not knocking you but damn that seems like torture.

Most of her sounds like possible wife material, the other part of her sounds like damaged goods because of getting burned in her last relationship.

Another question - why should you be the one telling her you want to get serious and in it for the long haul ?

Shouldn't it be the other way around and her chasing you ?

It sounds like you're showing your cards, way too early.


I'd bet you anything for the right guy she'd makeout with him and show PDA.

[MdWanderer]

(10-14-2016 01:24 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Another question - why should you be the one telling her you want to get serious and it for the long haul ?

Shouldn't it be the other way around and her chasing you ?

It sounds like you're showing your cards, way too early.

I didn't say it to her yet. I'll make sure I keep it to myself.

[kiwi12]

She is 31yo and virgin I dont know man, something seems fishy.

[kaotic]

(10-14-2016 01:29 PM)MdWanderer Wrote:  

(10-14-2016 01:24 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Another question - why should you be the one telling her you want to get serious and it for the long haul ?

Shouldn't it be the other way around and her chasing you ?

It sounds like you're showing your cards, way too early.

I didn't say it to her yet. I'll make sure I keep it to myself.

I think it's more than that, something just seems off about her.

Especially if she's in her early 30's, a church girl, and not married or engaged.

From my experience, church girls get locked down in their early 20's and start popping out babies.

You also aren't hear "dream" guy because you aren't a virgin - but doing some heavy praying "might" change that.

You've lost some of your allure to her.

You enjoy PDA and having fun, it seems like she's the opposite.

She got burned by her ex and it's bleeding into interaction with you.


Just those 3 things along would make me cut my losses and bounce.

It's not like you can't find another girl in church, you've got way too much invested just in this one girl.


And your thread title:

YOU ARE NEVER STUCK

You have the option to get up and walk away, right now, you're in self imposed prison. Only you can free yourself.

To me the writing is on the wal

[Svoboda]

Wait, hold on.
I tried to keep an open mind, then I read she's 31!!!
GTFO

[eradicator]

Bail. This just sounds like a disaster.

[MdWanderer]

(10-14-2016 01:43 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

I think it's more than that, something just seems off about her.

Especially if she's in her early 30's, a church girl, and not married or engaged.

From my experience, church girls get locked down in their early 20's and start popping out babies.

You also aren't hear "dream" guy because you aren't a virgin - but doing some heavy praying "might" change that.

You've lost some of your allure to her.

You enjoy PDA and having fun, it seems like she's the opposite.

She got burned by her ex and it's bleeding into interaction with you.


Just those 3 things along would make me cut my losses and bounce.

Good post. I grew up in the church as well and church girls are a mixed bag. Many of them do go on to get married young and make babies, while others simply pray that God will just bring them a husband while doing nothing to work on themselves thinking it's out of their hands.

[AneroidOcean]

(10-14-2016 01:24 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Did anyone else read that like nails on a chalk board and cringe ?

Now MdWandere I'm not knocking you but damn that seems like torture.

Most of her sounds like possible wife material, the other part of her sounds like damaged goods because of getting burned in her last relationship.
<SNIP>

YES. My eyes widened and I cringed. So far let's list her pros:

1. Virgin
2. Loves to cook (hey, I'll give you that one)

Cons:

1. 31 years old. Pretty much by the time you court her, set a marriage date, actually get married, actually get her pregnant she'd probably be well into her mid 30s. This is NOT marriage and family creation material. Not at all.
2. She doesn't want to make out until she's married? Find if you want to find a virgin, but not even any kissing at all in private? I've NEVER had good sex with a girl who can't give a decent kiss or warm embrance.
3. She's "hurt" by her ex. What does this even mean? They dated for a year and never had any real kissing? She's got to have something seriously wrong with her to be hurt by someone she never even made out with. Something is fishy here.
4. Abandoned by her father and pledged to be a virgin because of it? - HUGE RED FLAG. She's got massive issues with men because of this. I'm not saying people can't get past this (like yourself), but with everything else combined, I doubt she's processed through this and healed herself.

Beyond those above, you are not in it for the long haul. You're going out gaming and you have no intention to make it serious with her immediately (you said so yourself). If ever there was a case of "walk away" without the girl being outright crazy acting, this would be it.

You also talk a lot about you screwing up and what she wants. This is all about what you want. You need to direct your life and wife-material women in the church want a man to lead them and you can't even do that with a 31 year old virgin. You need to work on yourself before you're even ready to lead a relationship much less marriage.

You can't get the enthusiasm she had for you back, because it was never really there to begin with and because what she thought you were, you've revealed you're not (a leader, a guy who is flawed but those flaws don't matter because of his actions).

Harsh truth man, but I hope you can gain from it.

Do not pass go, do not collect $200, head straight to Dalrock and other church-oriented red pill blogs in order to learn more about how to be a church-girl style leader and strong family man. You not having a father has probably affected you more than you are willing to admit, but the great thing is that you can gain these qualities. Men are doers. Go out and seek your own success.

[Wahawahwah]

Be careful. Seems like the beginning of oneitis.

A couple quick notes -

- Nothing you said or did seems to be a deal breaker.
- You met her a MONTH ago and are thinking of marriage. Irrespective of whether you guys are perfect for each other or you're a great judge of character, check yourself. If you go into a relationship thinking of marriage and shit, its going to affect your behavior, turn her off and you're going to end up getting oneitis.
- You were qualifying to her when you thought you messed up with the virgin question. Reframe.
- The person who cares less in a relationship has more power --- now clearly if she really is a virgin and all that, she'll probably require more comfort than a normal woman, but honestly, attraction > rapport.

Ideally, she should be the one to initiate public displays of affection, tying you down in a relationship and thinking about marriage. You've got this flipped backwards. I'd recommend just continue to game her, but she's probably not the unicorn you think she is. Simultaneously try spin a few plates, if only to get back the steel in this relationship.

Also, don't "telegraph" that you want to make sure she knows that you're in it for the long haul, make her earn that privilege of you committing everything to her for the long term. Let her chase you. Otherwise she won't value your attention and commitment much, let alone fall in love or whatever.

Honestly like Kaotic, eradicator, AO said -- this is basic stuff -- leave before you get mired deeper into shit.

Edit just saw this -

Quote:

But I want her to get the enthusiasm back that she had for me before

The fuck? You've been seeing each other for a MONTH. Can you imagine trying to "revive her enthusiasm" every month for the rest of your life?
This is not a one time thing, that once you revive her enthusiasm once, the problem is fixed. Either she's not that into you or just unenthusiastic.
You've got this all flipped backwards. Making our great state of Maryland look bad man.

[AneroidOcean]

OP - You may also find this eye opening. kaotic's situation that he had to live through the harsh reality and move on from (and begrudgingly accepted he was giving her too much credit):

thread-52295.html

[MdWanderer]

(10-14-2016 06:32 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

OP - You may also find this eye opening. kaotic's situation that he had to live through the harsh reality and move on from (and begrudgingly accepted he was giving her too much credit):

thread-52295.html

Yeah, I definitely read it. There were a few points in there that stuck out (not thinking about marriage until the relationship was a year in, letting her chase him and say I love you first, etc.)

Literally as I was typing the original post on this thread, she sent me a voicemail saying she was "thinking about me" and hope that my car got fixed (she drove me to an event yesterday because my car had issues).

But you guys are right, I definitely see the red flags and will tread lightly. I just needed to check myself before I developed one-nitis.

[Gorgiass]

If she's holding out to meet a guy 31+ who's still a virgin she's going to wind up with Elliot Rogers, not Steve Carell. That she hasn't realized this speaks volumes about her mindset. The dating pool doesn't get deeper as anyone passes 30 - especially a woman, but also as a man, which is more reason to not waste time with women who don't warrant it, as is the case with this one.

I've banged two conservative recovering Christian girls who lost their virginity at 28 but that was on dates one and two. A month, or god forbid, a year without even a kiss? Fuuuck that. This girl is damaged goods.

You must try before you buy! Marriage is a contract, you don't buy a car without looking under the hood, you don't buy a house without a home inspection. Marriage is an even more costly prospect than either of these, both fiscally and emotionally. What if you get her in bed on your wedding night and she's a hermaphrodite? "Circumcised" beyond repair? What if she's physically fine but NEVER wants to fuck? This is a crazy situation, especially at 31. Get out while you still can.

[torridon747]

(10-14-2016 12:05 PM)MdWanderer Wrote:  

Met this girl at church last month and we have still been talking. We have gone out
Here is the thing: she does not like public displays of affection or any touch whatsoever. *1I have tried the holding hands, arm-in-arm, and makeout, but she is clear she doesn't want to make out with anyone until she is married. I do the arm-in-arm and hand holding, but she accepts it at times and at times she does not. In fairness, she did say on our first date even before we talked that she doesn't consider touching important to a relationship, she wants to take things real slow, and she did not makeout at all with her ex boyfriend who she dated for a year.

But I think I screwed up. She still agrees to dates and texts me from time to time but she does not seem as enthusiastic as she was when we first met. I will admit, I messed up badly. She asked me for the first time whether I was a virgin last week, and I told her "no" (I should've told her it was personal or waited sometime down the road to tell her, but you live and you learn). She said it was her dream to meet a guy who was saved until marriage, and will need to do some "praying" *2 over the situation, but said it was not a dealbreaker and that her friend married a non-virgin and is happy. She at the same time revealed how she was hurt by her ex boyfriend, and wanted the whole time to take things slow and not rush into a relationship because of her past. However, she likes the fact that although I attend church, I am a regular guy who likes to have fun while her ex was a super-religious square (he didn't drink, was a virgin, and didn't listen to any other music than Christian music). I also do things such as holding doors, walking on the side closest to the street, etc., but like to bust her balls and be playful with her too. We have a date currently planned for next Friday she agreed to.

I eventually see myself getting more serious with her myself, but I am not there yet. However, I want to make sure she knows I am in it for the long haul*3, but not as friends. I am supposed to go gaming tonight with a friend, and want to have other girls in backup in case this goes nowhere. I am afraid I'll invest too much and get hurt.*4 But I want her to get the enthusiasm back that she had for me before. How do I do this? Your help is appreciated.

You seem to think quite a bit of this girl. Remember she is still a woman and you still need to be the man. Christian, buddhist, islamic, athiest; it doesn't matter. You still need to act properly. I have some concerns i'll address below

*1. That's a sign of previous emotional abuse and consequently damage or not liking you. We'll assume she likes you; regardless, it's not a good sign my man.

*2. She's trying to make you sweat. I find this particurely disgusting because of the whole using god thing but at it's base she is just trying to sweat you out and let you know what she thinks about you.

3*. I understand you want her to feel secure but "letting her know you're in it for the long haul" is giving her license to do whatever she wants. I do not recommend it.

4*. You have those feelings for a reason. You should probably figure out why you feel that way.

Good luck!

[John_Galt]

Wow. When I read posts like this and the replies, my faith in humanity is restored.

Seriously, this is like walking up the mountain to talk to the sages---the advice is just great.

I really don't have a lot to add that hasn't been said already. To me, the biggest flag, as others have pointed out---is that she's 31. That in and of itself is a deal-breaker for many men on this forum, simply because of the biological realities women face. Add to that that she's a virgin---at 31----and never been married, something is wrong with this girl. Someone else would have scooped her up years ago if she were a keeper. The fact that she's still not married is honestly the biggest red flag to all of this.

If I were you, I'd keep her around----as a FRIEND. Yes, friend-zone this girl, and keep gaming and getting laid. If this girl were 21, not 31, I'd say you keep doing what you're doing. But she's well past her expiration date. It's not about her age, it's about the fact that she has not found a man by that age.

There's nothing wrong with having feelings for one girl----monogamy is a beautiful thing in the right circumstances---but the fact of the matter is, something about her has kept her from pair-bonding like a normal woman. It's like that car that sits at the car lot for YEARS. It's got a great body, it test drove ok, but the fact that no one has bought it is just eerie----something is wrong with it, you just aren't sure what.

You don't have to completely ditch her, she sounds like a nice woman----just end the romantic relationship (heh, whatever little of it exists!)

[Leonard D Neubache]

This situation:

Your ticket to starfish missionary sex once a year, tops.

Jump to 4:15

[Khan]

OP, listen to what Aneroid Ocean said, he summed it up perfectly. I'm only unsure about the first point he made - your gf's virginity being a positive thing. I'd argue that in this case it's not.

Yeah it's great if a girl is a virgin at the age of 20, even 25, but 31? That's highly suspicious. Almost every decent conservative girl who wants to wait before marriage can easily find a decent guy and marry him sometime in her 20s. The fact that she's kept her virginity for so long is an immediate indicator that she could have severe issues with men.

None of us can make the decision for you, but do listen to your gut. If something smells fishy, it probably is.

[vinman]

(10-14-2016 12:29 PM)MdWanderer Wrote:  

(10-14-2016 12:22 PM)roberto Wrote:  

She better be something real special for you to to go through all that, if you want my honest opinion.

We currently have a lot in common. Same age (31), Black, but her mother is African and was raised in that culture instead of black American culture, we were both abandoned by our fathers and she pledge to stay a virgin because of that experience (her parents were teenagers when she was born), both love sports and the same type of music. She is currently going for her Ph.D and has two years left in the program. Both of our relationship histories were brief (longest relationship was over one year). And she loves to cook.

She is definitely relationship/marriage material but I need to game other girls. I don't want to put too much into it and possibly get hurt in the end. That happened to me in college and I nearly flunked school because of it.

I'm skeptical as fuck. If she was worth marrying it would have happened in her mid twenties. I don't believe in unicorns, or magic. I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. But you need to be smashing other pussy to help you maintain perspective.

[John_Galt]

It seems like everyone agrees.

Continue at your own peril.

I know it's hard to find virgin girls in the states (Trust me, I've tried.) but honestly, you just need to go after younger girls if that's what you're looking for >24.

Honestly, under 21 is really where you need to look if you're serious about finding a virgin.

[Easy_C]

Got mixed feelings. While I don't pretend to know it all, I married a similarly conservative girl without sleeping with her first (was done with the "game" at that point) and it wasn't at all like that. Main difference was that mine wasn't at all inhibited about showing or giving affection as long as it was within the bounds of public decency.

Girls like that NEED to have a very high comfort level, and often it can take a lot of time to build up that comfort up.

Just give it some time but don't go exclusive yet to keep yourself out of that mind-trap. Right now she's probably wrapped up in her head over-analyzing everything you do to try to figure out what kind of guy you are. So just show her.

I don't really recommend "gaming" this kind of girl. You need to be natural and if the game isn't "in" you rather than "on" you that facade will never last in the long haul.

[Rawmeo]

She had a boyfriend, so she's not marriage material. IMO I wouldn't push it that much, a girl who had someone before is in no position to make you wait that long, unless she is really special.

You can keep her on the side while gaming elsewhere, but don't get attached or catch oneitis.

[Sonoma]

I'm going to disagree with the above. She sounds okay but I'd be very careful.

I think the similar backgrounder are valued heavily by the OP and if that important than this girl is certainly a good catch. Clearly smart if in a PHD program and while 31 is kind of a deal breaker, it also shows that she's serious about the chaste stuff

[Suits]

The age is definitely a deal-breaker. If you are going to jump through all the no-sex-before-marriage hoops with a religious girl, it should be a with a 21 year a decade younger than you, not a woman "the same age as you."

Being the same age as a woman is not "having something in common." A 31 year old man and a 21 year old woman have something in common.

If the 21 year olds won't look at you, then work your ass off for the next three years to get to a point where they will.

Remember, no matter who attractive a 31 year old is today, it's all coming crashing down soon. I'd rather go with a less attractive 21 year old.