[hv123]

(10-09-2016 05:31 PM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

Sometimes I wonder if people on this forum are a bit too harsh. As mentioned by an earlier poster, a lot of men have blue collar jobs and it's not that easy to completely turn your life around and become succesful.

All the great examples we know, from Roosh to Cernovich, they all have had an undergrad degree and a white collar job at some point. Not only that, they're extremely intelligent people (I don't want to get into a debate of IQ, but for argument's sake I think it's safe to assume they both have IQs above 130).

On this forum we forget that the average man has an IQ of a 100. We forget that a certain level of intelligence is indeed required to understand TRP and game. We forget you need a certain level of attentiveness and conscientiousness to actually read a book (reading books comes naturally to me, but for many it is an absolute struggle). We forget you also need a certain level of support to change your life around. We forget how fucking hard it really is to change your life around. Is ambition something you can learn or an inherent trait? I don't know the answer, I've always been ambitious. Not everyone I know was. And some people never will be. All they want is a good-looking job, a supporting wife and a kid or two. And that is OK. It is OK to want a simple life. One of the most valuable things I learned was that a healthy society is built for the average person, not the highly intelligent and ambitious kind.

That is why I support MGTOW in theory. The average man is supremely fucked in modern society. All this stuff about learning game is excruciatingly hard if you're not naturally inclined towards the dark triad. I'm finally getting to a point where I'm doing OK game-wise and it took me several years to get my shit together. In many ways I'm lucky that I am intelligent and ambitious. Because God knows if I was around the 100 IQ mark and not so ambitious, I'd be screwed.

I look at my dad, who didn't even finish high school and can barely speak English. Yeah he's intelligent and ambitious. But he's never read books in his life. He doesn't read forums. If he had to learn game, he'd be fucked. That's why I say I support MGTOW as a philosophy. For many men, learning game isn't feasible. For the same reason, I have little respect for many self-help books and biographies - you really do need certain attributes to make those things happen. And the one problem I genuinely have with self-help books is that they argue ANYONE can be successful in life as long as they follow the advice. No they can't.

That said, I hold no opinion on actual MGTOW. If they really are mostly young smart guys who are basement dwellers and have the opportunity/energy/intelligence/perseverance to learn game - then yeah, they need to get off their asses. But the average blue collar guy - good lord, guys, have a bit of pity.

In years gone by, without idealising the past, most blue collar guys would have had a stable job been married in their say early 20s, had kids and got a house. E.g car plant worker whatever.

You're right a lot of people don't have the mental acuity to learn game or learn a lot of things really. They are not however bad people or people without talent or merit. Heck a lot of the guys that have worked for me down the years are semi literate. A long time ago I gave up and I just write out a lot of their invoices to me for them.

These guys now are not in a million years going to get a decent woman to marry, and there's no way they can afford a house even if they did. The vast majority are not incel or mgtow, whatever buzz word is going round, they are often living with parents to a late age, drinking down the pub, seeing mate, trips to thailand, smoking weed, playing videos games and get scraps of poon when they can. That's reality for a lot of modern guys.

I don't know if these guys will be a landing mat for the CC riders when they get over 30. A lot of the guys are still living that lifestyle in to their 30s and 40s. We could be in for a shock in demographics in 10-20 years time.

[RBerkley]

(10-10-2016 03:28 AM)Matsufubu Wrote:  

(10-10-2016 01:00 AM)RBerkley Wrote:  

Horror story

If a feminist wrote on Jezebel that WGTOW was a valid movement because if you get married your husband will enslave you, rape you, become a brute, force you to cook and clean for him, stop you from working, force you to have babies until your womb implodes and then cheat on you with his secretary before leaving you as a broken husk, we'd all be laughing at it as too far out.

Also: "Womb turds"? Really?

If it's a monetary argument, hell, don't even bother having friends 'cos you might have to buy them a round. Friends add value to your life, so does family.

I placed two Hypothetical Cases, which do not reflect the social movement called "Feminism".

Feminism is a Gender Marxist movement which seeks to confront and destroy masculinity.

Economical MGTOW is avoiding feminism by saving cash & gaming in more traditional societies.

Canada & USA is not traditional like tribal societies in Amazon, Peru, Congo, etc. There is no defined marriage roles in the West.

Why would I take the risk to marry some feministe to use the government against me as soon as I stock up enough wealth?

I know the nature of scheming beaches. I did pimp game already. Many "empowered" chicks will find another man who is richer. In Asia, a Filipino hooker or a "Mail Order Bride" from Eastern Europe is more likely to be honest and upfront than a Western woman.

Speaking about "womb turds", it was some woman's womb turd who conveniently lodged false accusations against Donald Trump over recovered memories of Satanic ritual abuse or some boombaclat like that.

When a man in a high tax state of the US or in Ontario, Canada have to pay 55% tax if he earns over 250,000$ per year, the tax he has to pay funds more womb turds to become future white knights and feministes.

Even in sexually "liberal" France, the taxation rate was at one time proposed to be 90% for those who earn over 500,000 Euros a year. To pay for more womb turds of single mothers who ride the cock carousel.

I don't know, but there is no way I would advise any man from the Western world to marry unless his country Divorce laws are not crappy, or if he can move to a more saner country to settle down.

Playaz like us should benefit the fact that more and more women are DTF than before & the current dating system benefits me because I like to keep a harem of chicks I wanna dagga inna pussy pon the regular, rather than marry and give away my balls and bank account to some Westernized chick.

Even if you offered me to marry in a more traditional country like Poland, I still would not marry one Polish chick, but I would want at least four or five chicks I can rotate and sex pon regular for wife.

I dunno how some man can be confined to one punanny. Pimp game probably put me in a place where I would even refuse to marry one chick because it's easier to access and "own" several hottie 18-year-old chicks on rotation. Pimp game works like magic in the United States for me & in Montreal, but Toronto, nah, they want man wife up the chicks who got Baby Rabies.

Next thing yea, many "empowered" woman would rather pose naked on YouTube "breastfeeding" their son (Sexy Spiritual Tasha Mama), than go and become a good wife.

So me nuh support this system where a woman can use a man sperm to pop out womb turds, then get the State to exercise force & violence against men when necessary, but the same "empower woman" would rather pose naked in front of little boys than satisfy a man.

I'll choose polygamy in Poland any day than being a servant for feminist culture.

[Easy_C]

Also worth pointing out: If you are on the internet, jacking off to internet porn while bitching about "AWALT" and how "marriage is for suckers" and generally hating women, that's a pretty piss poor example of MGTOW. You're just a loser.

To my mind, real MGTOW doesn't have any stupid nerd acronyms and doesn't hang out on the web. It would look more like this:

[Leonard D Neubache]

(10-10-2016 03:19 AM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  

(10-10-2016 01:58 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

b) Guys who want to get married but just don't have the game to make it work in this day and age (MGTOW central).

I guess I don't see the advantage to me in that situation. If you have to constantly game your wife, what's the point of marriage? You could apply the same gamesmanship to getting a variety of women without the chance that they'll divorce you if you slip up and forget to game them.

The advantage of a wife should be loyalty rooted in vows, not constant game. Otherwise, she's just hanging out on your branch until something better comes along...and there's always a better offer eventually no matter how great we think we are.

For me game is something you have or you don't. You can fake it to some extent to get laid here and there, but do you think a guy like Roosh takes days off from having solid ownership of the women in his life? Hell no.

There is "gaming" and then there's "game". I don't patter around the house checking off a mental list of shit in one of Roosh's books. I act as a man ought to act and in that regard display what a lot of people call "game". My wife responds well to that and it takes ZERO effort once you've locked it down.

Come to think of it. The only men I ever see getting divorced are guys that repeatedly stand down against every shit-test their wives throw at them. Women have greater loyalty for a wife beater than a wimp.

[hv123]

(10-11-2016 06:25 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

(10-10-2016 03:19 AM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  

(10-10-2016 01:58 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

b) Guys who want to get married but just don't have the game to make it work in this day and age (MGTOW central).

I guess I don't see the advantage to me in that situation. If you have to constantly game your wife, what's the point of marriage? You could apply the same gamesmanship to getting a variety of women without the chance that they'll divorce you if you slip up and forget to game them.

The advantage of a wife should be loyalty rooted in vows, not constant game. Otherwise, she's just hanging out on your branch until something better comes along...and there's always a better offer eventually no matter how great we think we are.

For me game is something you have or you don't. You can fake it to some extent to get laid here and there, but do you think a guy like Roosh takes days off from having solid ownership of the women in his life? Hell no.

There is "gaming" and then there's "game". I don't patter around the house checking off a mental list of shit in one of Roosh's books. I act as a man ought to act and in that regard display what a lot of people call "game". My wife responds well to that and it takes ZERO effort once you've locked it down.

Come to think of it. The only men I ever see getting divorced are guys that repeatedly stand down against every shit-test their wives throw at them. Women have greater loyalty for a wife beater than a wimp.

I agree with a lot of what you say but I disagree with the idea sometimes on here that everything is down to how much game or alphaness you have. A successful marriage is a lot down to luck unless you have some sort of rigorous screening program.

Luck - you didn't loose you leg in a chainsaw accident or whatever obviously, but luck in the sense, sorry to say it, that some women are just a lot easier to get on with. I.e. not super bitchy "alpha women" or whatever. If you have X level of game/alphaness it won't be enough for some women etc. I'm somewhere in the middle - a lot of women are either not possible to game enough to not be raging thundercunts or the battle just isn't worth it.

Obviously choosing the right woman is the key - Totally agree that with the right woman if you are manly enough it just clicks in to place, but she needs to be feminine enough in the first place as well. But if you have a decent wife you've also been fairly lucky in selection. Or pretty smart at least.

[Leonard D Neubache]

Again. Luck comes into it to the degree that you allow it.

How many people in this world that you know personally would you say are a VERY good judge of character?

How many divorced men do you know that you would describe as a VERY good judge of character.

What percentage of people in this world simply imagine people how they want them to actually be, rather than see them for who they truly are?

Taking the red pill is about accepting hard realities over pleasant illusions. The hard reality a lot of men these days cannot accept is that there is damn near no such thing as a beautiful woman who is also a good human being. Case in point. Beautiful women have everything handed to them from birth and have no respect for hard work or difficult choices. 99% of them are unmanageable for anyone other than the fabulously wealthy.

So for most guys that hit on beautiful women (why not) the idea of finding a good wife seems like an impossible task, because they typically are unwilling to trade down in looks in order to trade up in loyalty and work ethic.

The looks will not last. The attitude problems will. This probably all belongs in another thread, but guys that choose to dead-end their bloodline because the universe will not hand them the perfect woman on a silver platter are a sad bunch. Family is life. It is the hole you never knew existed until you filled it.

[hv123]

I agree but for the same reason you don't agree. I.e that most of us are not that great a judge of character especially when tits and and ass come in to play. Most of threads on here wouldn't happen if everyone was an expert judge of character.

Even if they were i still think it's a big ask to really judge what someone will be like, hence my point that luck comes in to it. You might gain a better perspective when you unplug but not necessarily new skills or ones that require innate understanding.

[eatthishomie]

(10-11-2016 10:31 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Again. Luck comes into it to the degree that you allow it.

How many people in this world that you know personally would you say are a VERY good judge of character?

How many divorced men do you know that you would describe as a VERY good judge of character.

What percentage of people in this world simply imagine people how they want them to actually be, rather than see them for who they truly are?

Taking the red pill is about accepting hard realities over pleasant illusions. The hard reality a lot of men these days cannot accept is that there is damn near no such thing as a beautiful woman who is also a good human being. Case in point. Beautiful women have everything handed to them from birth and have no respect for hard work or difficult choices. 99% of them are unmanageable for anyone other than the fabulously wealthy.

So for most guys that hit on beautiful women (why not) the idea of finding a good wife seems like an impossible task, because they typically are unwilling to trade down in looks in order to trade up in loyalty and work ethic.

The looks will not last. The attitude problems will. This probably all belongs in another thread, but guys that choose to dead-end their bloodline because the universe will not hand them the perfect woman on a silver platter are a sad bunch. Family is life. It is the hole you never knew existed until you filled it.

Or as Jimmy Soul put it in 1964...

[chicane]

One of the Big Band songs I listened to this morning -

I got spurs that jingle, jangle, jingle
As I go ridin' merrily along
And they sing, "Oh, ain't you glad you're single"
And that song ain't so very far from wrong

Oh, Lillie Belle
Oh, Lillie Belle
Though I may have done some foolin'
This is why I never fell

I got spurs that jingle, jangle, jingle
As I go ridin' merrily along
And they sing, "Oh, ain't you glad you're single"
And that song ain't so very far from wrong

Oh, Mary Ann
Oh, Mary Ann
Though we done some moonlight walkin'
This is why I up and ran

I got spurs that jingle, jangle, jingle
As I go ridin' merrily along
And they sing, "Oh, ain't you glad you're single"
And that song ain't so very far from wrong

So I'll jingle on along
Songwriters: LILLEY, JOSEPH / LOESSER, FRANK

[eatthishomie]

Of course the problem is that someone's appearance is often (not always) more of a reflection of their lifestyle and character than we are led to believe. I'm going to do a big write up on this subject when I get a minute.

[chicane]

To quote Unka Mitch:
The truth will set you free, but first it's going to really piss you off.

Your friends miss you, Mitch

[Rob Banks]

(10-08-2016 08:19 AM)AboveAverageJoe Wrote:  

Once these guys realize that they have "willingly" opted out of the gene pool and a life force's basic imperative, to reproduce, it will be too late and they will regret it. Just like women that put off childbearing until after career and carousel. There is something inherently defective about a man that can't even attract a defective woman. At least Isaac Newton's lifelong celibacy resulted in great advancement for the human race in the previously non-existent fields of physics and calculus. I am afraid all these incels will acheive is a high score on some video game I have never heard of. These guys are blaming feminism for their own shortcomings.

Females don't just fall into your lap, you have to hunt them and pursue them like prey, hang out at their watering holes waiting for them to show up, thirsty and undefended by the herd.

These guys realized that it takes effort to attract women so they decided it wasn't worth the effort. Overall this is a good thing for society.

Natural selection has decided that they are unfit to reproduce genetic half-copies of themselves..

That's definitely something that pisses me off about the MGTOW's or anybody that talks about "you should never ever get married. Marriage is slavery and ALL women are the same." They are willingly opting out of the gene pool. They complain about women not being traditional or following societal norms, but they themselves are refusing to follow the oldest tradition that has ever existed: reproduction.

I understand not wanting to wife up a slut. And if you try for years and years to find a good woman and you just can't find one, that's something I can at least understand. But if you decide at 20 or 25 years old that "all women are like that" and you're NEVER EVER going to reproduce, then I have no sympathy for you. Your father reproduced, and so did his father, and his father's father, and so on. Your blood line consists of a never-ending line of fathers who chose to reproduce, leading all the way back to the beginning of life on Earth. And you're voluntarily choosing NOT to follow in their footsteps and allowing the bloodline to die with you. That's shameful. You have no right to bitch about women being sluts, making poor reproductive choices, and doing shameful things, when you're making the poorest and most shameful reproductive choice of all.

[Khan]

(10-12-2016 05:38 AM)Rob Banks Wrote:  

That's definitely something that pisses me off about the MGTOW's or anybody that talks about "you should never ever get married. Marriage is slavery and ALL women are the same." They are willingly opting out of the gene pool. They complain about women not being traditional or following societal norms, but they themselves are refusing to follow the oldest tradition that has ever existed: reproduction.

Men who think like this suffer from binary thinking, and they're usually the first to fall to what they preach against - enslavement to a bad wife.

Because if according to them every woman really is a slut, then there's always a chance that sometime, somewhere, a woman will appear who will tick all their boxes. A woman who'll be gentle, feminine, loyal, nurturing, etc. Or at least, a woman who'll give the impression she's like that. Since these guys think in binary terms, they'll readily conclude she must be a gift from God or something, ignore all her flaws (and we all have flaws, even the wife-material girls) and begin worshiping her like the worst betas.

Carlo Goldoni described this play at work in The Mistress of the Inn.

(10-12-2016 05:38 AM)Rob Banks Wrote:  

I understand not wanting to wife up a slut. And if you try for years and years to find a good woman and you just can't find one, that's something I can at least understand. But if you decide at 20 or 25 years old that "all women are like that" and you're NEVER EVER going to reproduce, then I have no sympathy for you. Your father reproduced, and so did his father, and his father's father, and so on. Your blood line consists of a never-ending line of fathers who chose to reproduce, leading all the way back to the beginning of life on Earth. And you're voluntarily choosing NOT to follow in their footsteps and allowing the bloodline to die with you. That's shameful. You have no right to bitch about women being sluts, making poor reproductive choices, and doing shameful things, when you're making the poorest and most shameful reproductive choice of all.

I agree. At the risk of offending someone, there are two types of people who claim they don't want to have children:

1) people who are lying, either knowingly or unknowingly;
2) people who have something wrong with them.

Reproduction is the second most powerful human instinct, after the instinct to survive. So strictly biologically speaking, people who really and honestly have no urge to reproduce are just one step away from people who think of committing suicide.

[Rob Banks]

(10-12-2016 06:33 AM)Khan Wrote:  

Reproduction is the second most powerful human instinct, after the instinct to survive. So strictly biologically speaking, people who really and honestly have no urge to reproduce are just one step away from people who think of committing suicide.

That makes sense. I never thought of it that way, but not having children really is almost like committing suicide. In fact, in some cases it's even worse than committing suicide. If you have kids and then commit suicide, then at least their bloodline continues.

[Enoch]

Having children is the closest human beings can come to being immortal.

Sometimes I ask myself, which man is more successful?

The physicist with a wife and 2 kids.

The high school dropout, living on welfare ex-felon with 10 kids?

[azulsombra]

The Physicist.
-Assuming he lives in a decent country, has a solid masculine frame and an attractive feminine wife.


The Ex-Felon is not living a life anyone should aspire to. Living on welfare for a MAN is far from glamorous, beyond the macho posturing he is basically the States' bitch and will likely be for the rest of his life.

Child support for 10 kids? No way he has custody of all 10, likely none. It doesn't require watching a season of the Maury show to know he's guaranteed to be a shitty father to at least some of those kids. He will also be forced to ensure baby mama drama and will have to be a complete bitch when dealing with the mother's of his children, as one phone call from a hysterical bitch could send him back to prison for a stretch of time with him being an ex-felon and all.

If you consider that a success.....well we measure success differently.