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Build a Wall, You Say? Been There, Done That, Failed
09-22-2016, 03:29 PM
Four words: Drones with machine guns.
Favorite quote: 'That was awesome! Look at the guy's head rolling down the hill'.
Maybe the Russians can lend us a few of those puppies ;-)
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"The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day."
– Lt. Col. Dave Grossman
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Build a Wall, You Say? Been There, Done That, Failed
09-22-2016, 03:34 PM
”We build a Wall. Illegals Keep coming in anyway because they build tunnels and hide inside trains and tractor trailers.
How are we going to deal with them when they get here?
Are we ready to go down to the Home Depot Parking Lots with Stun Guns and Paddy Wagons to round up illegals?
How do we know who is who?
Where do we send them?”
All of these questions have answers, and they've had answers for the past 250 years. If you don't know what they are that's really more on you than anybody else.
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Build a Wall, You Say? Been There, Done That, Failed
09-22-2016, 03:39 PM
Quote: (09-22-2016 03:17 PM)Samseau Wrote:
Quote: (09-22-2016 02:44 PM)AboveAverageJoe Wrote:
I never said we couldn't build a wall.
I said it will be prohibitively expensive while not ending illegal immigration as long as the incentives exist and laws are not enforced. We already have the necessary tools at hand. The wall should be a last, expensive resort.
E-verify will be put into place as part of immigration security. Did you create this thread without even reading donaldjtrump.com's positions?
E-verify already exists and has proven to be ineffectual use of by borrowed or stolen SS#'s.
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Build a Wall, You Say? Been There, Done That, Failed
09-22-2016, 03:42 PM
AboveAverageJeb!
Take care of those titties for me.
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Build a Wall, You Say? Been There, Done That, Failed
09-22-2016, 03:45 PM
Yeah, because the IRS is not doing its job. The IRS enables illegals. That's not a problem with E-verify, it's a problem with the IRS.
When I had to get a new Social Security card so I could get my new DL when I moved, I had to go to the SS office and show multiple forms of ID. They obviously know exactly who I am, and who my SSN belongs to. If they're not catching shared/stolen SSNs, it's because they're not trying.
It's amazing how illegals get away with all kinds of shit with the full approval of the government that would have me in prison so fast I'd probably break the sound barrier on the way to my cell.
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Build a Wall, You Say? Been There, Done That, Failed
09-22-2016, 04:02 PM
I went to renew my DL before my last trip to the Islands so I rounded up all my pertinent documents and headed off to DPS. They inspected all the documents and said your good. All of course while looking at me and my digital image on their computer screen. After I was approved and before my new pic was taken I had to have my fingerprint digitally scanned. WTF? Why all the documentation when you are going to verify me by my fingerprint when all is said and done. If they used fingerprints instead of SS#'s that would be a giant step in the right direction.
On a side note, years ago when I was 14 and had scored my first real job that wasn't mowing lawns, washing cars or delivering newspapers, before illegal immigration was even an imagined problem, I went down to the Federal building in Honolulu and was told that my SS# number I was attempting to use couldn't be mine because someone was already using it. I told them they must be wrong because my Mama wouldn't lie to me. Walked out with my SSC and joined the workforce and bought my first motorcycle soon after.
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Build a Wall, You Say? Been There, Done That, Failed
09-22-2016, 04:22 PM
Quote:Quote:
We have miles of unprotected border with Canada yet we are not drowning in Canadians. I mean we got stuck with Beiber, but I can live with that. The answer is there is no reason for them to come here.
Remove the incentives for illegal immigration is the crux of my arguement.
This analogy doesn't make much sense.
Canadians aren't pouring over the border because Canada isn't a third world shit hole. It has nothing to do with us, and everything to do with their own country providing all the opportunities they need to succeed.
Mexicans come to the U.S. because Mexico is largely a shit hole and a struggle to survive. We can have the best and most robust law enforcement possible and Mexicans will still continue attempting to enter (and be successful) because it is still a better opportunity than the one in their country.
Obviously enforcement of laws on the books is a crucial and first, immediate step needed, and Trump will do that- but we should also have a wall as a physical barrier cutting down the numbers that come in, because no matter what we do on this side, or how much better we do at deporting them, they will not stop trying to enter as long as Mexico remains a broken mess. And it will be for a long, long time.
The incentive to come here isn't based solely on our poor enforcement of laws, it is based on how bad they have it there.
Ending the drug war would have little to no impact on the economic reality for Mexicans in Mexico. It will not change the reasons and desires behind trying to get to the U.S. That is not to say it would be a bad or good idea, just that it does not change the motivating factors behind leaving Mexico.
Better enforcement + a wall will cut down the problem as best we can hope for.
Americans are dreamers too
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Build a Wall, You Say? Been There, Done That, Failed
09-22-2016, 04:40 PM
Quote: (09-22-2016 04:22 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:
Quote:Quote:
We have miles of unprotected border with Canada yet we are not drowning in Canadians. I mean we got stuck with Beiber, but I can live with that. The answer is there is no reason for them to come here.
Remove the incentives for illegal immigration is the crux of my arguement.
This analogy doesn't make much sense.
Canadians aren't pouring over the border because Canada isn't a third world shit hole. It has nothing to do with us, and everything to do with their own country providing all the opportunities they need to succeed.
Mexicans come to the U.S. because Mexico is largely a shit hole and a struggle to survive. We can have the best and most robust law enforcement possible and Mexicans will still continue attempting to enter (and be successful) because it is still a better opportunity than the one in their country.
Obviously enforcement of laws on the books is a crucial and first, immediate step needed, and Trump will do that- but we should also have a wall as a physical barrier cutting down the numbers that come in, because no matter what we do on this side, or how much better we do at deporting them, they will not stop trying to enter as long as Mexico remains a broken mess. And it will be for a long, long time.
The incentive to come here isn't based solely on our poor enforcement of laws, it is based on how bad they have it there.
Ending the drug war would have little to no impact on the economic reality for Mexicans in Mexico. It will not change the reasons and desires behind trying to get to the U.S. That is not to say it would be a bad or good idea, just that it does not change the motivating factors behind leaving Mexico.
Better enforcement + a wall will cut down the problem as best we can hope for.
I bolded the part you missed.Irregardless of the situation of the Mexican economy, if they knew the only thing awaiting them here was a jail cell instead of jobs and open arms, they would stop coming and many would leave of their own accord.
Mentioning Prohibition was to show that supply follows demand not the inverse. I never said that legalization would somehow affect illegal immigration, however I definitely disagree that legalization would have no effect on the Mexican economy. It is by far their largest export and their largest source of foreign currency.
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Build a Wall, You Say? Been There, Done That, Failed
09-22-2016, 05:31 PM
My two cents is that we don't specifically need to have a wall built, but three things.
1: Enforce the laws that we have, and if we don't already have it, charge the employers when they find illegals working for their companies. If they need more stringent laws than so be it. Nothing stops illegal employment that a few CEO's doing the perp walk to Federal Prison, and do not make them eligible for Club Fed for this.
2: Bring the 2nd Infantry Division home from South Korea and defend our own border. The southern border is not the Canadian border where bagpipes are
Confiscated, is the most that the Border Patrol does. The Southern Border needs the army to defend it correctly from incursions whether they are Illegal Aliens or Drug Cartels. They have been doing this for 60 years with that unit, surely they know how to do this. Any new editions to the current wall can be done by the engineering corp. We also don't need to have this speed bump on the Korean Penninsula, and South Korea can prison rape those commie bastards to the north if they put their mind to it. Putting troops on the border happened exactly 100 years ago by General Persing. We can do that once again.
3: My form of Amnesty is to take anyone home who surrenders themselves, no questions asked. They can seek residency at a later date if they choose to move here legally and meet the requirement. Right now if they are caught they cant legally come here.
"Stop playing by 1950's rules when everyone else is playing by 1984."
- Leonard D Neubache
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Build a Wall, You Say? Been There, Done That, Failed
09-22-2016, 05:41 PM
If by some dark magic, or perhaps if she was to make a(nother) pact with Satan, and Hillary somehow wins...she would need to build a wall to keep all the Americans IN.
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Build a Wall, You Say? Been There, Done That, Failed
09-22-2016, 06:02 PM
Quote: (09-22-2016 05:14 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:
Quote: (09-22-2016 01:27 PM)Enigma Wrote:
Every post by AboveAverageJoe makes the wall 10 feet higher.
This and if he carries on, the wall might have a moat with alligators in it.
Now, you guys are thinking big. As we say in Hawaii, "Go Big, or Go Home."
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Build a Wall, You Say? Been There, Done That, Failed
09-22-2016, 06:23 PM
The wall is an economic net gain. It stops illegal immigrants with zero skills entering the country, it creates a large barrier for criminals, reduces drug flow (huge negative social, medical, and mental impact on the citizens that get caught up in this), and most of all has a fiscally positive impact in multiple ways. 1. No longer paying welfare, social services, and medical costs for people that have never contributed a dollar to the tax base. 2. It drives American economic activity. You don't think we're going to go source those materials and monitoring systems from CHYYYYNA, do you? 3. It creates an economic wall focused on keeping american dollars in the american economy. Entitlements to illegals, like half goes back to their home country, so by eliminating this we take out a huge cost and simultaneously strengthen the velocity of money within the country.
Couple this with things like stationing ICE on the border as opposed to 90 miles away and creating real penalties for first time offenders and you have the beginnings a BIG BEAUTIFUL boundary.
To enforce things internally, you can start with two simple and very legal actions. Any business owner regardless of size of the company caught employing an illegal alien with no guest visa is fined 250K the 1st time and an incremental 250K per additional infraction. Along with that, you pull federal funding for school systems in sanctuary cities. I wonder if the teachers union's might become advocates real quick.
Unfortunately, I dont have access to figures but I'd bet my unborn daughters virginity to AAJ that if you line item all those costs currently vs. the costs of a wall and the associated gains, the wall wins in spades.
And lastly, AAJ, you're the authenticity wall of this forum. You built that beautiful plagarism barrier back in May to take down NTP's alien ramblings. Many in the establishment where against you, ABA, was shilling in the pantheon trying to stump you. You wouldn't have it. If you, one man, can take down the RVF's version of the Dos Equis guy then American's can build a physical structure just like people have been doing for thousands of years.
I will say, however, that when you are getting to the point that you have to build a wall. You've been on the defensive for far too long, both internally and abroad, and that is priority #1. Defensive measures are generally stop gaps until you can address the real problem. And the real problem would be trying to transform Mexico's social, political, and business culture which may be even beyond Trump.
But oh what the fuck? Make Mexico Great Again, Too!. MMGAT!
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Build a Wall, You Say? Been There, Done That, Failed
09-22-2016, 06:53 PM
Quote: (09-22-2016 04:40 PM)AboveAverageJoe Wrote:
Quote: (09-22-2016 04:22 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:
Quote:Quote:
We have miles of unprotected border with Canada yet we are not drowning in Canadians. I mean we got stuck with Beiber, but I can live with that. The answer is there is no reason for them to come here.
Remove the incentives for illegal immigration is the crux of my arguement.
This analogy doesn't make much sense.
Canadians aren't pouring over the border because Canada isn't a third world shit hole. It has nothing to do with us, and everything to do with their own country providing all the opportunities they need to succeed.
Mexicans come to the U.S. because Mexico is largely a shit hole and a struggle to survive. We can have the best and most robust law enforcement possible and Mexicans will still continue attempting to enter (and be successful) because it is still a better opportunity than the one in their country.
Obviously enforcement of laws on the books is a crucial and first, immediate step needed, and Trump will do that- but we should also have a wall as a physical barrier cutting down the numbers that come in, because no matter what we do on this side, or how much better we do at deporting them, they will not stop trying to enter as long as Mexico remains a broken mess. And it will be for a long, long time.
The incentive to come here isn't based solely on our poor enforcement of laws, it is based on how bad they have it there.
Ending the drug war would have little to no impact on the economic reality for Mexicans in Mexico. It will not change the reasons and desires behind trying to get to the U.S. That is not to say it would be a bad or good idea, just that it does not change the motivating factors behind leaving Mexico.
Better enforcement + a wall will cut down the problem as best we can hope for.
I bolded the part you missed.Irregardless of the situation of the Mexican economy, if they knew the only thing awaiting them here was a jail cell instead of jobs and open arms, they would stop coming and many would leave of their own accord.
My point was that since they come here because of circumstances in their country, and those circumstances are unlikely to be affected to any significant degree by anything we have control over, that they will continue to enter regardless of what risks await them. Those risks are still better than what they face where they are.
Without a wall cutting the flow to some degree, there will still be plenty of opportunities and reasons for them to try to enter even with better enforcement. There is no reasonable amount of manpower or laws that will take care of the issue on their own. A wall adds a further and different type of deterrent/obstacle.
Americans are dreamers too
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Build a Wall, You Say? Been There, Done That, Failed
09-22-2016, 07:36 PM
A wall actually has documented success in numerous cases. In terms of removing incentives for illegals... He is, and it's on his policy page. The wall itself is more so a symbol of his campaign. Nobody thinks we build a wall and suddenly all issues regarding foreign immigration stop, but it is a great tool in the arsenal. It's not going to make immigration troubles worse lol...
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Build a Wall, You Say? Been There, Done That, Failed
09-22-2016, 08:20 PM
If he wins, Trump really should put the alligator version out for tender though. Would be hillarious to see the bids it got. Perhaps there could be a short "experimental section". People would think twice about crossing after hearing stories of their munched compatriots.
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Build a Wall, You Say? Been There, Done That, Failed
09-22-2016, 08:29 PM
I respect the wall argument but I still believe policy is a better method to curb illegal immigration. Walls can be climbed or tunneled under.
1. Crack down on companies employing illegals. Heavy fines and possible criminal charges.
2. Enact a better screening and VISA program for the good ones that just want to come and work.
3. Give Border Patrol the tools and authority necessary to enforce the border. Due to the lack of work available the majority of those crossing will be drug traffickers, terrorists or other various criminals.
4. Force the Mexican government, through the threat of sanctions, to cooperate with border security.
“There is no global anthem, no global currency, no certificate of global citizenship. We pledge allegiance to one flag, and that flag is the American flag!” -DJT
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Build a Wall, You Say? Been There, Done That, Failed
09-22-2016, 08:36 PM
I think a powerful tool was taken away when these 12 states: California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Maryland, New Mexico, Nevada, Utah, Vermont and Washington allowed illegal immigrants to get US, State drivers license otherwise if you get pulled over for a minor traffic infraction and don't have a valid DL, you go to jail. At that point they would transferred to ICE once determined that the reason for no DL is because they are not US citizens. This would have been preferrable to the current situation where State police are unable to detain illegall immigrants during traffic stops.
We need better cooperation between ICE and local PD's. I don't think requiring US citizens to carry passports while driving is reasonable, but if a cop sees you dont have a valid DL they take you to jail. Once there, Identifying their citizenship and beginning deportation would be rather easy IMO, as illegals aren't protected by the Constitution, thus they are not legally deserving of due process.
I am sue thousands of illegals a day could be rounded up in this way.
I also know that when accosted by police in the US you are required to provide your SS#. If you don't have one you are clearly not a US citizen. You may be a legal alien but that could be sorted out while being held during the 72 hours that police are allowed to hold you without charging you.
I am trying to look for solutions where the budgets, manpower and laws are already in place. This is why I believe issuing DL's to illegals was a huge mistake made in their favor. Why let them have DL's when most don't buy insurance anyway. One-third of all Texas drivers are on the road with no insurance.
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