[Pollito]

Good nugget of advice in that last post from Diop (which I had taken as a given previously but may not be as obvious to someone new to the accounting world) -- pass those exams as QUICKLY as possible.

As soon as you're eligible to sit for the exams in terms of credit hours-- literally, the day your credits post online-- apply to take the test and schedule the two hardest sections (FAR and REG) as soon as possible. If you can knock those out before or very soon after you start working full time, you will skate through the other two and won't be worried about getting study time in the middle of busy season like the 10-year younger chump instant-gratification-seeking staff assholes with no foresight that comprise your peer group at the firm of your choosing.

Which will of course leave you with plenty of extra time to play online poker and bang while they're up til 2 am listening to online review lectures.

[polar]

I'm not on the accountant track myself so I will defer to the poster who listed the exit opportunities below my post.

To get hired, you need to make it clear that (despite your age) you're not too good to do the shit jobs, that you are willing to eat shit for breakfast, lunch, and dinner to prove yourself, and that you would see a job offer as a contractual promise to stay for at least two years or whatever it takes to get promoted (turnover pisses them off).

The name of the game on professional services is that you grind down the path and exit right after a promotion if you want a change of scenery. In order to get into something prestigious but with lower hours, like treasury at a hedge fund, you need strong experience, Big 4 on your resume, and good references / contacts (aka network network network).

Seconded on getting your certs out of the way ASAP.

And yeah, as you go up the food chain you are expected to have more client facing time, sit in more meetings with more important people to hold their hand and the such. Financial services and accounting moves the remote work to India and Phils as soon as they can, so you won't be doing a four hour work week from Bangkok.

Best way to keep a lot of time free is to do your time and then start your own thing. If you hang up a shingle and work with individuals, wealthy ones, a lot of them - guess what? You have to grind through April 15. But after...you can take a couple of months off if you've got enough people under you.

[Easy_C]

MBA could be tough. It will depend a lot on your record. However it is possible. I know a guy who went to a good school after being a chef and is well on his way to a Great Wall Street career.....the good kind, not being a pitch book monkey.

Keep in mind where accountants sit in finance. They generally have a lower salary(still good) than other areas of finance but have much better job security and flexibility. As mentioned its also hardly a flat field. You could be doing anything from tax accounting for mom and pop shops all the way up to doing due diligence for multi billion dollar deals.

[Dickerstaff1]

I thought I would just update my progress. My first semester is in the books. I managed a 3.5 GPA this semester. Working only about 20 hours a week, money is tight. I also have become dependent on adderal to get my shit done. It also almost eliminated my poker playing opportunities and is seriously limiting my physical activity. Maybe I just need to manage my time better.

I took both financial and managerial accounting. These other students are like zombies. Terrified to express any original viewpoint. They generally seem to not give a shit about the classes. I hardly attend the other business classes I am required to take (marketing, operations management, etc).

I had a class during the accounting club meetings so I didn't join last semester, but this semester I will take that fucking club over even if I have to crack the president over the head with a spreadsheet.

So I have another 3 semesters before I can sit for the CPA, if everything goes as planned. I will be looking for summer internships these next couple months. I wouldn't mind working at a big business services firm, not a Big 4 firm because they aren't nearby and it sounded too hectic, but I am open to advice.

Baker Tilly is near and my professor said that I could work anywhere in the world with them. I know a lot of people already gave internship advice, but if you have some more specific advice that would be appreciated. I can't give too many specifics on what I would like to do because I just don't know yet, though I would prefer something more consulting oriented.

[Cattle Rustler]

Man, I need to find where the fuck I can find Adderall, people swear by that shit.

[Cobra]

OP my articles are linked in my signature below my post. Some of your questions are addressed there. I'll get to the other ones.

[RealDeal]

(12-24-2016 02:19 PM)Cobra Wrote:  

OP my articles are linked in my signature below my post. Some of your questions are addressed there. I'll get to the other ones.

Hello Cobra,

How big is the threat of automation taking over accounting jobs? Not sure if you covered that question already.

Thanks.

[dallasguy]

I went back to school to get a masters in accounting at age 32. I was in IT support before and it was a dead end job filled with outsourcing. I knew that at age 40 you are pretty much dead in IT and would end up in consulting and temp gigs until age 50 and you end up at Walmart.

I just busted my balls working full time and taking 3 classes per semester. I lost alot of weight and had zero social life after breaking up with a LTR. My employer paid for 60% of the costs. I finished in 2009.

My biggest advice to you is to get accounting internships while taking classes. Go with big 4 if possible. If not, go with a regional then local. Do not graduate with no accounting experience on your resume. It will be very hard to find a decent job.

I got my CPA a few years after graduating. I'll be making manager and 6 figures by next year. I felt the thing that held me back the most was no accounting internships.

If you want business consulting, then get into audit first. Then go into tax. From there you can be an M&A consultant.

[dallasguy]

IMO a career at a big 4 isn't worth it. Work there 3-5 years and leave after you make manager. They don't make partners anymore. You can leave as manager and make partner at a regional.

[Cobra]

(12-24-2016 10:41 PM)dallasguy Wrote:  

IMO a career at a big 4 isn't worth it. Work there 3-5 years and leave after you make manager. They don't make partners anymore. You can leave as manager and make partner at a regional.

Please explain why a career at a big 4 isn't worth it? Also would love to understand how you know they don't make partners anymore? And why is "regional" better?

Curious what experience you're speakin frI'm here as well.

[dallasguy]

Big 4 sucks the life out of you. We're talking up to 100 hours a week during busy season. All of the partners at my firm came from the big 5. They still have contacts at those firms. No new partners have been made in years. You can still make director and pull $250K.

You won't have to put in as many hours at a regional. Better work life balance. Get your training and experience there then move on or else you'll wake up at age 45 wondering what you did the past 10-15 years. You can always make money, but you can never buy your youth back.

[Pollito]

(12-28-2016 03:01 AM)dallasguy Wrote:  

Big 4 sucks the life out of you. We're talking up to 100 hours a week during busy season. All of the partners at my firm came from the big 5. They still have contacts at those firms. No new partners have been made in years. You can still make director and pull $250K.

You won't have to put in as many hours at a regional. Better work life balance. Get your training and experience there then move on or else you'll wake up at age 45 wondering what you did the past 10-15 years. You can always make money, but you can never buy your youth back.

So you're saying you've never worked for Big 4, and have come to your conclusions solely based on hearsay from Big 4 dropouts with a bone to pick, axe to grind, sour grapes, etc.?

"Up to 100 hours a week" is pure hyperbole. I've never heard of someone clocking a legitimate 100 hours at my firm, or since I left for an industry gig, any of my auditors' firms for that matter. I'm sure there are exceptions, and exceptional idiots who couldn't finish their shit in 60 hours and fucked around the other 40, but they're just that-- exceptions.

From a hiring manager's standpoint, you give me two identical resumes, except one made manager at Deloitte and the other made manager at BDO, guess which one I'll pick every time.

[pirate]

Think very carefully about this. This is not only about a decision going back to school. The benefits of being a CPA only come after 3-4 years work. For the first couple of years: you will be paid like shit, and you will work your arse off. It's not the 100 hr/week hyperbole these folks are talking about, but at least 50-80 hrs a week- that is enough to tire you out and hamper any other fields of endeavour you have- gym, gaming, reading or w/e.

The starting salary for a senior (3yrs experience) in Australia is $72k AUD at the big four, I believe you will earn +-$55k as a senior in the US.

I am a CA. I've worked for two of the big four in audit/consulting, for a total of five years. I am desperately trying to exit this path. I absolutley detest this profession and most of the people in it, but I will try to give a balanced account:

Here's a list of pro's and cons:

Pro's
-You will have an in-demand qualification for the rest of your life. It is extremely easy to find work once you're qualified. People will contact YOU. This is what happened to me, a recruiter contacted me when I reached senior, they put me in touch with an Australian firm. Two phone calls with them and I had a Visa and intercontinental plane ticket to Australia. This sounds great but the flip side is that it also reveals how interchangeable senior auditors are.
-Travel: with a modicum of game, you can travel across your own country and the globe on your company's cost. Most accountants/auditors are unadventurous types with so if you stick up your hand and schmooze for travel assignments, you will get them.
-If you work for a large firm, you will have ample opportunity to game young women that dress well during work hours!Just keep it out of your department.

Con's
- The soul crushing feeling that you are an automaton, a cog in some large machine with no ability to act as your own agent.
- The work is extremely boring. Do not make the mistake that this is the exciting world of business: most of your hours will be spent in useless meetings, routine administrative tasks, fine tuning excel spreadsheets and clearing up review comments that some shmuck made just to appear to be doing his job.
-Politics: Performance reviews, HR initiatives, diversity seminars, feminism, expect the full can of worms here- sanctioned at an institutional level.

[Jack Of All Trades]

Here's a question for you guys working in accounting, how hard is it to get a entry level job to be able to get the experience and hours to sit the exams to get a CPA? from what I gather if your not in school or recently out of school it's a uphill battle to get gigs, and big4 is pretty much out of the picture from what I understand.

[Pollito]

From what I've seen it's next to impossible to break into Big 4 audit once you're outside of the university recruiting pipeline. That said, there's nothing to stop you from passing the exam and getting a non-attest certification from a state where audit hours aren't a hard and fast requirement. What that means is in certain states you can earn a tier of certification which doesn't allow you to sign audit opinions or certain other reports, and the only situation that's relevant is if you're an audit partner. Otherwise most employers won't give a shit or even know the difference if you have a non-attest CPA certification.

[Jack Of All Trades]

I'm aware Big4 is out of reach for those transitioning into the accounting profession, I don't know about state laws, but in canada you cannot sit the exams unless you have document records from a qualified employer, I'm pretty sure this is similar in other commonwealth countries.

It's the chicken or the egg scenario, how do you get a job allowing to get a CPA without the job in the first place? the job market has significantly tightened here in canada for people without the designation, from what I've been seeing the last chance is hitting up the small mom and pop shops around town for a internship.

OP what's your situation? has anyone done what the OP did in the currenct environment? how's recruiting for internships as a non-traditional student?

[Thomas Jackson]

Accounting is a good stable career with a ton of benefits, but starting in the Big 4 in your 30's would be pretty terrible. You would have to be completely okay with doing grunt work and getting supervised by a 24 year old with no life experience. I am a manager in a national firm (GT, RSM, BDO) so I feel i have a decent perspective here.

[Pollito]

(01-07-2017 08:30 AM)Thomas Jackson Wrote:  

Accounting is a good stable career with a ton of benefits, but starting in the Big 4 in your 30's would be pretty terrible. You would have to be completely okay with doing grunt work and getting supervised by a 24 year old with no life experience. I am a manager in a national firm (GT, RSM, BDO) so I feel i have a decent perspective here.

Starting at any of the large national firms in your 30s I think is only potentially terrible, and even at that, only for a few years. As I mentioned in a previous post I know people that have done so, and I know some of my current auditors who are doing so as we speak. The ones I worked with in Big 4 have by and large been able to leapfrog their peer groups in terms of career advancement post-big 4; and the ones who audit me now clearly have more of the intangible life experience that allows them to be more effective and sponge up more knowledge that will benefit them down the line. The key is being able to put your ego on the back burner when necessary and withstand the temporary inconvenience of reporting to someone younger who has shit for life experience, and it's a worthwhile sacrifice considering how you'll be positioned for a better series of roles in private industry afterward. That is of course provided that whoever is facing such a decision has some degree of commitment to the accounting/finance profession and intends to stick with it and milk it for all it's worth (which can be substantial, monetarily). Otherwise, completely agree it's all a waste of time.

[speeddemon]

(01-07-2017 08:30 AM)Thomas Jackson Wrote:  

Accounting is a good stable career with a ton of benefits, but starting in the Big 4 in your 30's would be pretty terrible. You would have to be completely okay with doing grunt work and getting supervised by a 24 year old with no life experience. I am a manager in a national firm (GT, RSM, BDO) so I feel i have a decent perspective here.

Do you know of any colleagues who have transitioned into investment banking after their stint at a Big 4 / national firm?

[Stoolio]

In response to questions about getting into Big4/mid sized firms without the college recruitment pipeline..

I'm 2/4 done with CPA exams, and I expect to be finished by February, and applying for work during February/March. I'm 2 1/2 years out of college, with a year and half experience in industry accounting.

I plan on applying to both Big 4 firms, and mid sized firms. For Big 4, I will be relying on connections I have already working at Delloite, EY, PWC. I'll give them my resume to forward to their hiring managers. I've heard this is the only way to get in to Big4 after college, not doing BAP and networking events. Same thing goes for mid sized firms where I have connections, but I'll also be cold applying.

I'll update on how the job search is going over the next couple months.

[Thomas Jackson]

(01-07-2017 01:24 PM)speeddemon Wrote:  

(01-07-2017 08:30 AM)Thomas Jackson Wrote:  

Accounting is a good stable career with a ton of benefits, but starting in the Big 4 in your 30's would be pretty terrible. You would have to be completely okay with doing grunt work and getting supervised by a 24 year old with no life experience. I am a manager in a national firm (GT, RSM, BDO) so I feel i have a decent perspective here.

Do you know of any colleagues who have transitioned into investment banking after their stint at a Big 4 / national firm?

Yes - it is hard but doable. A guy i went to college with did it (from PWC) and another guy I formerly worked with did it. Both via networking. The didn't go to GS or anything like that though, but smaller niche I-banks. You won't want to stay in public long if you want to do this. Another way is to do 2 years of audit, switch to transaction advisory for a couple years and then either go get a top MBA or go directly to a smaller bank.

[Pollito]

(01-07-2017 01:24 PM)speeddemon Wrote:  

(01-07-2017 08:30 AM)Thomas Jackson Wrote:  

Accounting is a good stable career with a ton of benefits, but starting in the Big 4 in your 30's would be pretty terrible. You would have to be completely okay with doing grunt work and getting supervised by a 24 year old with no life experience. I am a manager in a national firm (GT, RSM, BDO) so I feel i have a decent perspective here.

Do you know of any colleagues who have transitioned into investment banking after their stint at a Big 4 / national firm?

Not directed at me but I'll answer. I know maybe half a dozen or so former Big 4 colleagues who ended up with smaller banks and M&A advisors, ranging from (currently) associates to VPs, at MacQuarie, Duff & Phelps, etc. Also a few now at hedge funds/private equity-- a couple at Apollo, TPG, BlackRock. All went to decent state or private universities; most had at least CFA part 1 in the bag before leaving public accounting.

[RealDeal]

I'm thinking of going back to school as well and getting into accounting but I will probably take the the short term 2 year diploma route instead. I'd be alright with a bookkeeper or payroll admin type of job.

[Jack Of All Trades]

Anybody have success with small shops? from what I understand they're way more relaxed and if you can carve out a niche it's really good.

[Thomas Jackson]

(01-07-2017 11:31 PM)RealDeal Wrote:  

I'm thinking of going back to school as well and getting into accounting but I will probably take the the short term 2 year diploma route instead. I'd be alright with a bookkeeper or payroll admin type of job.

This is a relatively deadend route. I would not recommend it. You won't make much and will be doing extremely boring low level work.