Quote: (08-29-2016 06:15 PM)Lime Wrote:
Quote: (08-29-2016 04:43 AM)frozen-ace Wrote:
If you really want to go Big4, try and get into one of the big markets. They are always looking for new hires- Chicago, LA, SF, Silicon Valley, NYC. Your best bet will probably be Chicago since that is your closest market. It will be awful. I hated every minute of it, and burned out hard. To get the full experience, go set a chair in the corner of a room and stare at the wall for 16 hours. That's what it will be like. If you can handle that, you'll make it! I wanted to be a manager. So did everyone else in my start class of 70. Only 5 made it. It was a bum time, I don't even like thinking about it. Imagine working until 1AM every night on a regular basis, sometimes later. Imagine having no days off, and every day being "Monday". Imagine going weeks and weeks without a day off, and not even having time to shop for groceries or do laundry, let along go to the gym. You'll gain weight, age quickly, and get some gray hairs for sure.
Why must this be so extreme? Is that typical of working in Big4 in the US? Or more a typical US thing? I know it is the case in investment banks and hedge funds, but these work weeks are just extreme.
In Amsterdam Big4 people also work hard but nothing like this. Maybe 55-70 hours. Heck, 70 hours is extreme already if its not for your own business.
The main reason for the hours is due diligence. Things are getting more complex, and the stakes are higher. It's all about showing you did everything you could in the event of a lawsuit. It's not in the US where you work a lot of hours- it's bad all over. India is awful. Brazil. Singapore. China. The list goes on and on. Smaller cities are more chill because the clients are smaller and generally are not publicly traded entities, so you don't have to do as much work and the deadlines aren't as aggressive. The only place I heard in the US that was really chill was Hawaii. And even if you work in a smaller market (or even a big market), you can get pulled anywhere there is a need. We had people going to NYC to work on the bank audits, and when our times were bad we pulled people from the midwest to help get the work done. You also have other "one off" items that increase workload- like issuing a "comfort letter" for a debt issuance, or working on a startup that is going public through the IPO process. An IPO is generally the worst in terms of hours because it is nonstop due diligence and there are other players in the house- the underwriters (i.e. Goldman Sachs) and the lawyers.
1) Internal controls. It started in 1992 with the Committee of Sponsoring Organizations of the Treadway Commission which established the internal control framework (this is referred to as "COSO"). Then when the Enron and WorldCom accounting scandals came to light, the public demanded action and confidence from the capital markets. Congress answered with the Sarbanes- Oxley Act, specifically Section 404 and the assessment of internal control over financial reporting. This is what is referred to as "Sox". It is a mind-numbing waste of time, but has to be done. Essentially every process (treasury, revenue, fixed assets, cash, payroll....an so on) has to have a giant flowchart outlining how things work, identify controls and what could go wrong, and then the company will keep records (usually in binders) documenting the controls being performed. Large companies can literally have thousands of controls and binders that take up entire ROOMS. As the auditor, you have to assess the effectiveness of the company's internal controls by reviewing all of those binders, and also performing your own walkthroughs (taking a process from start to finish and asking questions) and independent testwork, performing interviews of key and non-key entity personnel, and in general being a giant pain in the ass. As a rough estimate, about 50% of an audit is spend just on internal controls.
2) The Public Company Accounting Oversight Board- this regulatory body was formed out of the Sarbanes- Oxley Act, and it regulates the accounting firms that perform audit services to issuers (companies traded on the public exchange). The PCAOB is a vicious and over-zealous entity, and they have the authority to audit the audits, review audit workpapers, and issue scathing reports and deficiency notices. They can fine you, and if the deficiencies are particularly egregious, they can even ban specific individuals from practicing public accounting. The PCAOB strikes the fear of God in all the accounting firms. So think about every little workpaper you produce- it can and will be looked at by someone from the PCAOB. Is your documentation clear enough? Is there anything on there that might lead one to question your conclusions? So it becomes a giant exercise in CYA (cover your ass). There will even be boxes and boxes of banker boxes labled "CYA" that aren't part of the audit working papers and are not required to be saved but were used as support/ backup to come to audit conclusions. These CYA papers were what Arthur Anderson shredded in the fallout of the Enron scandal, and the accounting firm was found guilty of obstructing justice. This was later overturned by the US Supreme Court, but by then the firm was already destroyed, turning the "Big5" into the monopolistic "Big4", creating even less competition in the major markets.
3) Employees are exempt from overtime. If you have someone on salary, and you have to have an audit done by xx date, why not work them to death? They are going to leave after two years anyway, and there's no shortage of fresh, high energy college grads ready and willing to take their place. Some countries have different overtime laws, but you still work like a dog regardless.
4) The rules get tougher and tougher every year. The AICPA issues new guidance. The PCAOB issues new guidance. The Securities and Exchange Commission issues new guidance. The Financial Accounting Standards Board changes the accounting literature or issues a major new pronouncement. The Firm issues new internal guidance around certain audit procedures. Every year more and more things get added on. And there is constant downward pressure to do more with less, become more efficient. It creates the perfect storm for lots of work in a compressed amount of time.
5) With the new rules after the Enron and WorldCom scandals, all of the audit documentation has to be completed and signed off BEFORE an entity releases its filed financial statements to the SEC. This means all your work needs to be done by a certain date. To give you some ideas on what this means for deadlines-
Large Accelerated Filer ($700M of public stock float or more)
60 days for annual form 10-K, 40 days for quarterly form 10-Q
Accelerated Filer ($75M to $700M of public stock float)
75 days for annual form 10-K, 40 days for quarterly form 10-Q
Non-Accelerated Filer (less than $75M of public stock float)
90 days for annual form 10-K, 45 days for quarterly form 10-Q
Imagine working in a major market where all the clients are large accelerated filers. Then imagine your buddy working on a smaller client that is a non-accelerated filer. Which of you two will have time to do laundry and go to the store to buy food?? Then imagine another friend who works on a private company where none of those deadlines even apply. Now who has the best life balance?
Another thing to note about those deadlines and "busy season". On average a company will have a 12/31 year end, which makes for a busy Jan-Feb. However, a company can have any year end it wants. So you have 3/31, 6/30, 9/30, and some random ones where they have a 52 Friday's in a fiscal year (which means the year end jumps around a little bit every year). If you are in a big market, you go from one busy season to the next. It is busy season year round. There is never down time.
If you don't get an internship your the summer before your final year, don't beat yourself up too hard. I wasn't good enough to get an internship, but the next year I got the job, which is what matters. The internships are just PR stunts to lure you in anyway. They are always pulling you out of work to do fun "volunteer" work, and they limit you to a STRICT 8 hour day. You don't feel the burn of a late night, not even once, while working as an intern. Once you get 3 months or 6 months into the job, you can't tell who did an internship and who didn't. The playing field will become equal.
Big4 doesn't recruit at your school? Your chances of getting in will be seriously diminished. How far is the nearest school where they do recruit? The recruiting events are generally in the evenings, you should suit up and boot up, and hit those up, even if you don't attend the school. You better have A's in your accounting classes (I've seen people turned down because they got a C in intermediate accounting, the core and most important accounting class you will ever take). And you better bring your A-game. Stay in shape, dress sharp, and be an interesting person. You want to be "that guy" they want on their team. You will be older, so you will stand out. Use it to your advantage. The strange older guys, quiet and introverted, they didn't have a shot in hell. Who wants to work with someone who "missed the boat", is quiet, and has the personality of a slug?? The older guys who beamed confidence and had a commanding presence had no problem getting hired.
Even if you miss the big hiring and the start class, there is always turnover, and the recruiters are under pressure to find talent. Each firm has an office in every major market (and some minor markets), look up their phone number on google, cold call, and ask to speak to a recruiter. Then sell yourself. Have your resume polished and ready to email. Hard to do during the major hiring season, but as soon as that is over it is easier to get their attention.
One other thing that is cool about the Big4- after a couple years (generally 3+), you can do an international rotation to a location of your choosing, if there is a need. I had coworkers who did Singapore, Brazil, Germany, and Ireland. Most people burn out before that becomes a reality though, myself included.
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