[Guayacan]

I know spain is known for discriminating against south americans, but my 5'5 bolivian friend just told me he really loved Madrid. He told me that if you're able to dance salsa or bachata the girls will jump on you like crazy. He thought spain was the easiest country so far. His game What do you guys think of this?

[Gopnik]

(08-23-2016 04:27 AM)Guayacan Wrote:  

I know spain is known for discriminating against south americans, but my 5'5 bolivian friend just told me he really loved Madrid. He told me that if you're able to dance salsa or bachata the girls will jump on you like crazy. He thought spain was the easiest country so far. His game What do you guys think of this?

Was he getting laid with Spanish or Latin American girls? You can do quite well with latin girls in Spain if you are a good dancer.

[Guayacan]

Not sure... will ask him the next time i meet him

[Baldrich]

(08-23-2016 04:27 AM)Guayacan Wrote:  

I know spain is known for discriminating against south americans, but my 5'5 bolivian friend just told me he really loved Madrid. He told me that if you're able to dance salsa or bachata the girls will jump on you like crazy. He thought spain was the easiest country so far. His game What do you guys think of this?

I think that the women he met were most most probably NOT from Spain. As gopnik has pointed out, of course it is really easy here to get a latina woman. But a woman from Spain?? Good luck!

[Gótico]

I haven’t been to Madrid in almost a year! I live abroad; whenever I go back to Spain (via Iparralde, habitually), I tend to stay within the confines of the Basque Country. As such, I can’t comment on venues, although I have heard that the Toni 2 is in very bad state, so I would suggest visiting — if old, Transition-era melancholic bars (similarly full of old people) are your cup of tea, that is — just in case it shuts down permanently, although you won’t find any skirt to pursue. I may very well be a cursi Basque who is overly fond of public parks and gardens, but I quite like the Rosaleda of the parque del Oeste, too.

---

(08-19-2016 09:47 AM)... Wrote:  

One thing I’ve learned while being here is that being “Spanish” is not really a thing, apart from around Madrid as you mentioned. Most people identify themselves as primarily being Galician, Catalan, Andalucian etc, and people are quite different depending on what part Spain they are from.

This is because one operates under the assumption that the other one in a conversation is a compatriot. Thus, amongst Spaniards, it would be nonsensical to describe oneself as “Spanish”. The same applies to the United Kingdom, the United States or Italy; within a group of Britons, a Welshman wouldn’t respond “British” to any enquiries as to his origin, for it is assumed. Would a Californian, brought to Vermont by circumstance (employment, perhaps), describe himself as an American or a Californian before a group of Vermonters? Spain undoubtedly has regional variety and flavour, which other countries lack or, perhaps more crudely in the case of France, formerly possessed but supressed. If you notice, Spanish nationals abroad do introduce themselves, when asked, as Spaniards; only TV3-watching, Ara-reading, Esquerra-voting separatists hide their passports.

Spain was actually one of the first states in Western Europe to develop a national consciousness; the prompt unification and, much later, the resistance against the French in the War of Independence (known in English as the Peninsular War) and the Carlist conflicts are all evidence of this. Even before the Islamic conquest of much of the Iberian Peninsula, a Spanish identity can be said to have emerged; Saint Isidore, writing in the 7th century, already makes an invocation to Mater Hispania (Mother Spain) in his Historia de regibus Gothorum, Vandalorum et Suevorum.

---

(08-18-2016 11:41 AM)Baldrich Wrote:  

Oh about the Spanishness -- I’ve actually gotten OTHER Spanish people to tell me this about Madrid. The problem is that in Madrid Spanishness is given a rather narrow definition which shuts out anybody who doesn’t conform to it. Thus, Andalusians are mocked for their accent, Catalans are derided, etc. Madrid is very centralist, stuffy and closed-minded in many ways on a personal level. In fact you will find much of the rest of Spain hates Madrid.

I will never accept fascism/francoism or Communism. I value freedom, as I said earlier. Freedom, economic as well as personal, rule of law, separation of Church & State, none of this fascist crap some people seem to like.

As for the women in Franco’s Spain...sorry I don’t think that’s a model to follow. Feminism is not good, but neither is traditionalist Catholicism or Islam.

I will agree on Madrid’s centralism, but I think Andalusians and Catalans are mocked everywhere. Similarly, everyone thinks the Basques are autistic faggots who will never touch a woman in their lives and direct more words at their long-dead ancestors and cows than they do at their own mothers; we think so, too, but at least we have Welthauptstadt Bilbao, the greatest metropolis to have existed. Spain, left- or right-leaning, is “stuffy” and “close-minded” in its entirety. Las dos Españas, Antonio and Manuel Machado, Francisco (yes, the caudillo) and Ramón Franco, Unamuno, Maragall, etc. This really is a topic for Spanish history and politics; should you open one, I would try to contribute.

José Antonio was a fascist, Baldrich; Franco was an opportunist, authoritarian army general, who sided with the Americans after the Second World War came to a close and produced the Spanish Miracle. That the Church came to his arms is hardly surprising when the republicans mutilated, castrated and executed priests (the Bishop of Barcelona included), raped nuns and persecuted the faithful. I agree on the importance of freedom, but sometimes one must choose between two dictatorships: in face of the Second Republic, death would be preferable. Laïcité, when arranged à la française, can only bring the destruction of the national patrimony; we need not become ultramontanists overnight, but there is no ill in recognising Spain as a Catholic country and attaching some legal importance to the Catholic Church as the state religion. Pío Moa is in order, my friend.

¿Qué propone usted? Having dismissed things present and things past alike, what system do you propose for our women? This I ask as an increasingly fervid conservative.

[Going strong]

^ Gotico, you get +1 from me... At last, we have a no-bullshit, red-pill post on Spain (and the -necessary at the time- general Franco), in this thread.
Only (very) Conservative systems, and authoritarian at that - and patriarchal, can save Europe, it's indeed becoming more obvious by the month... And not only Europe actually: look at Duterte, the new strong man of (formerly Spanish) Philippines... this kind of no-bullshit, strong and energetic leaders are needed by societies, to clean the "global" mess and put us all back on good tracks.

[Baldrich]

(08-26-2016 03:59 AM)Gótico Wrote:  

I haven’t been to Madrid in almost a year! I live abroad; whenever I go back to Spain (via Iparralde, habitually), I tend to stay within the confines of the Basque Country. As such, I can’t comment on venues, although I have heard that the Toni 2 is in very bad state, so I would suggest visiting — if old, Transition-era melancholic bars (similarly full of old people) are your cup of tea, that is — just in case it shuts down permanently, although you won’t find any skirt to pursue. I may very well be a cursi Basque who is overly fond of public parks and gardens, but I quite like the Rosaleda of the parque del Oeste, too.

---

(08-19-2016 09:47 AM)... Wrote:  

One thing I’ve learned while being here is that being “Spanish” is not really a thing, apart from around Madrid as you mentioned. Most people identify themselves as primarily being Galician, Catalan, Andalucian etc, and people are quite different depending on what part Spain they are from.

This is because one operates under the assumption that the other one in a conversation is a compatriot. Thus, amongst Spaniards, it would be nonsensical to describe oneself as “Spanish”. The same applies to the United Kingdom, the United States or Italy; within a group of Britons, a Welshman wouldn’t respond “British” to any enquiries as to his origin, for it is assumed. Would a Californian, brought to Vermont by circumstance (employment, perhaps), describe himself as an American or a Californian before a group of Vermonters? Spain undoubtedly has regional variety and flavour, which other countries lack or, perhaps more crudely in the case of France, formerly possessed but supressed. If you notice, Spanish nationals abroad do introduce themselves, when asked, as Spaniards; only TV3-watching, Ara-reading, Esquerra-voting separatists hide their passports.

Spain was actually one of the first states in Western Europe to develop a national consciousness; the prompt unification and, much later, the resistance against the French in the War of Independence (known in English as the Peninsular War) and the Carlist conflicts are all evidence of this. Even before the Islamic conquest of much of the Iberian Peninsula, a Spanish identity can be said to have emerged; Saint Isidore, writing in the 7th century, already makes an invocation to Mater Hispania (Mother Spain) in his Historia de regibus Gothorum, Vandalorum et Suevorum.

---

(08-18-2016 11:41 AM)Baldrich Wrote:  

Oh about the Spanishness -- I’ve actually gotten OTHER Spanish people to tell me this about Madrid. The problem is that in Madrid Spanishness is given a rather narrow definition which shuts out anybody who doesn’t conform to it. Thus, Andalusians are mocked for their accent, Catalans are derided, etc. Madrid is very centralist, stuffy and closed-minded in many ways on a personal level. In fact you will find much of the rest of Spain hates Madrid.

I will never accept fascism/francoism or Communism. I value freedom, as I said earlier. Freedom, economic as well as personal, rule of law, separation of Church & State, none of this fascist crap some people seem to like.

As for the women in Franco’s Spain...sorry I don’t think that’s a model to follow. Feminism is not good, but neither is traditionalist Catholicism or Islam.

I will agree on Madrid’s centralism, but I think Andalusians and Catalans are mocked everywhere. Similarly, everyone thinks the Basques are autistic faggots who will never touch a woman in their lives and direct more words at their long-dead ancestors and cows than they do at their own mothers; we think so, too, but at least we have Welthauptstadt Bilbao, the greatest metropolis to have existed. Spain, left- or right-leaning, is “stuffy” and “close-minded” in its entirety. Las dos Españas, Antonio and Manuel Machado, Francisco (yes, the caudillo) and Ramón Franco, Unamuno, Maragall, etc. This really is a topic for Spanish history and politics; should you open one, I would try to contribute.

José Antonio was a fascist, Baldrich; Franco was an opportunist, authoritarian army general, who sided with the Americans after the Second World War came to a close and produced the Spanish Miracle. That the Church came to his arms is hardly surprising when the republicans mutilated, castrated and executed priests (the Bishop of Barcelona included), raped nuns and persecuted the faithful. I agree on the importance of freedom, but sometimes one must choose between two dictatorships: in face of the Second Republic, death would be preferable. Laïcité, when arranged à la française, can only bring the destruction of the national patrimony; we need not become ultramontanists overnight, but there is no ill in recognising Spain as a Catholic country and attaching some legal importance to the Catholic Church as the state religion. Pío Moa is in order, my friend.

¿Qué propone usted? Having dismissed things present and things past alike, what system do you propose for our women? This I ask as an increasingly fervid conservative.

Most of the "old" bars in Madrid are shutting down. No one under the age of 50 wants to be caught dead in any of those rancid bars. Barcelona, which is way more European, modern, vanguard and progressive compared to fascistic Madrid, has no such bars (that's what gives Barcelona the "coolness" factor that Madrid will never ever ever have, no matter how hard they try). Barcelona was always the most open and modern Spain had to offer. That's normal though -- because they're not really "Spanish" in culture and don't feel that way. They will be independent soon, I guarantee you that.

Looking at how you express yourself, I can definitely tell you are Basque -- no offense meant but sometimes you guys are too "brutos!" when talking! I have had a lot of clashes with some Basques, although nothing in a bad sense. I'm sure you will understand me when I say I am much more in tune with the "Mediterranean" attitude of "I don't give a F" which doesn't happen up north.

Your comments about nationality or Spanishness make no sense. You totally misunderstood the point. "Being Spanish is not really a thing" in that MOST people outside Madrid and the Castilla regions DO NOT like to be called Spanish and many will NOT identify with what MADRID says "Spanishness" is. Spain, thankfully, isn't all about sangrias and bullfighting. That's the bad Spain, the central Spain, the Spain of old, of Franco, of poverty, ignorance and Catholicism (being redundant, I know).

Why do you operate on assumptions? I like to operate on facts, not assumptions and the fact of the matter is that many people outside Madrid and Castilla do NOT like to be called "españoles" without any context on what that means.

With regard to how Americans identify themselves...most Americans identify first by race/ethnicity. Very few people use the term "American" without a hyphen. Most people say "Italian-American" or "Hispanic-American", or "Muslim-American", there are endless labels, which is why many Americans are a bit surprised when in Europe, most "Europeans" (yes, in quotations) lump everyone as "American" as if we were all exactly with the same characteristics. We are an extremely diverse country.

Also, to assume anyone who doesn't identify as a Spaniard is an "esquerra TV3" follower is why I have so many problems with many Spanish people who think like you. Why can't you just respect the FACT that MANY people, leftist or not, do NOT like to be called Spanish? CIU in Catalonia is from from being a left-wing party and their voters are CATALAN pro-independence from Spain. But they are quite conservative. Likewise in your own region, the PNV is far from being left-wing....so just think for a while about how you label people.

Spain's national consciousness was imposed and it has had THREE CIVIL WARS because of that very question which is still NOT settled.

And I'm sorry but if you follow pseudo-historians like Pio Moa, I have nothing else to discuss with you. I like serious scholarship, not the BS churned out by Pio Moa and propagandists like fatso Cesar Vidal.

Franco: I agree he was an opportunist...but if you really believe that is a model for Spain to follow again, there is nothing we can discuss properly. I was raised to defend freedom, limited government, protestant-style liberties...not this Catholic fascist or authoritarian bullcrap. One of the reasons why Spanish women are so repressed about sex is precisely due to that Catholic background which is thankfully, FINALLY, disappearing. I love the video when Carrero Blanco dies. As you say in Madrid "de Madrid al cielo" and never as relevant!

I AGREE with you that BOTH leftists and rightists in Spain are stuffy and closed-minded. This country is sometimes very stifling, there is no debate whatsoever between sides...but please use serious sources when making your point, not jokes like Pio Moa.

Yeah, the "reds" raped nuns...and the Catholic Church abducted children and MURDERED many, many people. As an institution, no other has done more damage to freedom and prosperity like the Roman Catholic Church.

¿Qué propone usted"? you ask me. Well, I'd like Spanish women to be more feminine but LIBERATED at the same time. In short, more North, less "Spanish" and Catholic. I talk to girls from all over the world and the attitude here of women is one of the worst I've seen in my life. Why anyone would want to come for the women here is beyond me.

And by the way guys, cut the crap about how Franco was "great". If anything, Franco made this country even MORE BETA than it was. There is actually a great book written by a right-leaning author who says that Franco actually made Spain the joke it is today. Franco openly mocked the Spaniards in an interview which is on youtube....he was asked "do you think it is difficult to govern the Spanish people"? His answer? "Difficult? NOOO, on the contrary!"

He was absolutely right. He also said "My compatriots are imbeciles"...so I agree, at least Franco knew his countrymen...but a model to follow? Err...no.

[Baldrich]

(08-26-2016 03:59 AM)Gótico Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 09:47 AM)... Wrote:  

One thing I’ve learned while being here is that being “Spanish” is not really a thing, apart from around Madrid as you mentioned. Most people identify themselves as primarily being Galician, Catalan, Andalucian etc, and people are quite different depending on what part Spain they are from.

This is because one operates under the assumption that the other one in a conversation is a compatriot. Thus, amongst Spaniards, it would be nonsensical to describe oneself as “Spanish”. The same applies to the United Kingdom, the United States or Italy; within a group of Britons, a Welshman wouldn’t respond “British” to any enquiries as to his origin, for it is assumed. Would a Californian, brought to Vermont by circumstance (employment, perhaps), describe himself as an American or a Californian before a group of Vermonters? Spain undoubtedly has regional variety and flavour, which other countries lack or, perhaps more crudely in the case of France, formerly possessed but supressed. If you notice, Spanish nationals abroad do introduce themselves, when asked, as Spaniards; only TV3-watching, Ara-reading, Esquerra-voting separatists hide their passports.

Apart from the fact that most regions in the US, Italy or elsewhere (setting aside ethnic minorities for now) do not have their own languages. The UK is the only other EU country (apart from Belgium) I can think of that has distinctive languages for each of its constituent countries, and Welsh and Gaelic are nowhere near as widely spoken in Wales or Scotland as Gallego is spoken in Galicia or Catalan in Catalonia for example.

There are a lot of Spaniards who no matter where they are in Spain are proud of their "Spanishness" (whatever that is), but at the same time there are a whole load of people who only state that they are Spanish to foreigners because frankly, most foreigners wouldn't know where Galicia or Catalonia are on the map.

Anyways, my whole assertion was just a counter-point to the psuedo-indignation that Baldrich received about "daring to say something about the Spanish as a foreigner living in Spain", which he did not in that part.

[sportbilly]

I do not know so much about Spain but did work in a Spanish company (I was in the Uk)...and for sure all the guys located in the Basque country thought of themselves as Basque

[...]

(08-18-2016 12:32 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

(08-18-2016 12:22 PM)UkraineHunter Wrote:  

(08-18-2016 12:04 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

(08-18-2016 11:56 AM)UkraineHunter Wrote:  

Pretty much like Italy. South European people have this stereotype of being friendly but LOL it couldn't be further from the truth.
They are very close toward strangers and the only way to meet new people is through formal introduction by a common friend. There is no way around it. They are some of the most unfriendly people (toward strangers) you can find. If you meet them abroad of course it can be different.

They can be friendly toward strangers only when they have something to gain from that person. For example if you're a stranger man but you know lots of very hot chicks (maybe you are a photographer, model scout, famous promoter, dj, personal trainer of a high end gym ecc) they can act friendly because they want to get access to your "social circle of hot girls". But if you're such a guy you probably couldn't care less about them because you already have what you want.

Social circle are created at very young age...if after high school you're out of the cool social circle you're out forever.

In all these countries a good social image is paramount, because to get inside a social circle you must be seen as an active person with a very cool social life and lots and lots of social connections (you have to offer something). So italians (but I think also spanish people) try their best to look cool on social networks and they utilize them as their business card, they give you your facebook like: "look at my facebook! I'm cool...let me in!". Of course it's all fake because most of them have very shitty life but on facebook, instagram ecc their life appear perfect and cool.

I can tell a lot of funny stories about how italians (and also other south europeans) "pimp" their facebook and instagram but I think you already know those things. For example they post pics of them lying down and relaxing in a yatch, so if you don't know them you'd think: "these guys must be rich and cool!!".
Well, of course the reality is completely different. The stories behind those kind of pics is that they beg the yatch's owner (and they pay him) to shot a pic inside his boat. They stay there literally ten minutes but for them is enough because they get what they want...a cool pic to show off on social networks so they have a better chance to break into a social circle.
Of course they do those kind of shit with everything...not just yatch pics...but it's all fake.

Unless you want to play this stupid game, you had better stay away from South Europe because if you're a foreigner you'll get cold shoulders by pretty much everyone.

Spot on! I couldn't have said it in better words. They really do think of themselves as open and friendly, but you quickly find out how false that is when you see them in their closed group of friends.

And yes, like you say, NO GETTING AROUND the fact that if you really want to meet people here, you have to be introduced through their friends. No exceptions. 99,9999999999% of Spaniards I've met are through other friends who already knew them. They NEVER randomly walk up to you to strike up a conversation as would happen even in the tiniest British village. I mean the Brits aren't as open as Americans about talking to strangers, but it is still much easier to meet people randomly than it is in Spain. All the friend groups here are part of their own crowd since they were kids. They never left their village or town and make no effort to get to know new people.

Yep, in my case sometimes I get Spanish guys "into" me because of where I'm from and they know I have access to lots of goodies. I get asked on FB all the time random questions from guys here who try to befriend me for job reasons. This is a country known for "estómagos agradecidos" (grateful stomachs) since anything worth it here is through connections and social ties. Not open at all.

I wear good clothes all the time and it's true that for that reason I get a lot of respect from people. In fact when I've been to bars they sometimes think I'm the owner or manager or someone VIP.

This is a country where people are always trying to impress each other with what they can. In my case, it helps a lot that I own a business and look like a boss, but the FB thing is so true. They always put pics up of fake restaurants they've never even visited just to look social enough. It's quite sad really.

Italy is probably very similar indeed.

Yes, Italy and Spain are very similar countries...I'd say all South Europeans countries are the same in this aspect. Incredible close and cold people toward strangers.
I'm in East Europe now...the stereotype says people here are cold, but I've found the people here really friendly. You can talk to locals without any problem...they even opened me sometimes offering me drinks (males) and introducing me to their friends. In Italy and in South Europe it would never happen. Some people here got out of their way to help me. They only shitty people I met are taxi drivers.

And you're right about the dressing thing. It's indeed very important....everything matter in this part of the world (South Europe). They glances at you and your social networks' profiles and they quickly make a judgment whether or not you be to any use for them by looking at how you look, how many social connections you have, how much money you have, in which city you live yada yada yada

Friendships aren't really genuine, they're all made out of convenience. Everybody here look like he/her has thousands of friends but in reality they're lucky if they have one real true friend....

...

Friendships: I always say that Spanish friends are good for one night of fakeness and shallow fun, but if you were ever in a clear and present danger, most of them would run away and definitely not help you. You seem them going out in large groups but like you say, they are just there for the good time, not really genuine at all. It gets even worse in smaller cities because at least in Madrid most people are from a different part of Spain, but if you go to small cities then it's even more closed and people stick to what they know.

Most of the people I met in Spain over the years stop talking to me once they a) get/find what they want or if I happen to give an opinion they don't like or if you move away, they just shut you off completely. No cards, no letters, no simple "Haven't seen you in a while, how are you"? , etc. Come to Spain to have a good time for a night, but don't expect to make any real and lasting friendships with the Spanish.

And yeah I can NEVER in a million years imagine a Spanish group of friends randomly getting drinks for a guy they didn't know. You will only ever see that in the US and now I know Eastern Europe too thanks to your info.

Don't trust anyone here and you will be fine...be your own boss, be confident and you will rule as long as you keep expectations low of the general population.

I never got an answer to this: where do you expect to find people that aren't like this? Sounds like anywhere in Europe or the US at least.

[Baldrich]

(08-28-2016 08:41 AM)... Wrote:  

(08-18-2016 12:32 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

(08-18-2016 12:22 PM)UkraineHunter Wrote:  

(08-18-2016 12:04 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

(08-18-2016 11:56 AM)UkraineHunter Wrote:  

Pretty much like Italy. South European people have this stereotype of being friendly but LOL it couldn't be further from the truth.
They are very close toward strangers and the only way to meet new people is through formal introduction by a common friend. There is no way around it. They are some of the most unfriendly people (toward strangers) you can find. If you meet them abroad of course it can be different.

They can be friendly toward strangers only when they have something to gain from that person. For example if you're a stranger man but you know lots of very hot chicks (maybe you are a photographer, model scout, famous promoter, dj, personal trainer of a high end gym ecc) they can act friendly because they want to get access to your "social circle of hot girls". But if you're such a guy you probably couldn't care less about them because you already have what you want.

Social circle are created at very young age...if after high school you're out of the cool social circle you're out forever.

In all these countries a good social image is paramount, because to get inside a social circle you must be seen as an active person with a very cool social life and lots and lots of social connections (you have to offer something). So italians (but I think also spanish people) try their best to look cool on social networks and they utilize them as their business card, they give you your facebook like: "look at my facebook! I'm cool...let me in!". Of course it's all fake because most of them have very shitty life but on facebook, instagram ecc their life appear perfect and cool.

I can tell a lot of funny stories about how italians (and also other south europeans) "pimp" their facebook and instagram but I think you already know those things. For example they post pics of them lying down and relaxing in a yatch, so if you don't know them you'd think: "these guys must be rich and cool!!".
Well, of course the reality is completely different. The stories behind those kind of pics is that they beg the yatch's owner (and they pay him) to shot a pic inside his boat. They stay there literally ten minutes but for them is enough because they get what they want...a cool pic to show off on social networks so they have a better chance to break into a social circle.
Of course they do those kind of shit with everything...not just yatch pics...but it's all fake.

Unless you want to play this stupid game, you had better stay away from South Europe because if you're a foreigner you'll get cold shoulders by pretty much everyone.

Spot on! I couldn't have said it in better words. They really do think of themselves as open and friendly, but you quickly find out how false that is when you see them in their closed group of friends.

And yes, like you say, NO GETTING AROUND the fact that if you really want to meet people here, you have to be introduced through their friends. No exceptions. 99,9999999999% of Spaniards I've met are through other friends who already knew them. They NEVER randomly walk up to you to strike up a conversation as would happen even in the tiniest British village. I mean the Brits aren't as open as Americans about talking to strangers, but it is still much easier to meet people randomly than it is in Spain. All the friend groups here are part of their own crowd since they were kids. They never left their village or town and make no effort to get to know new people.

Yep, in my case sometimes I get Spanish guys "into" me because of where I'm from and they know I have access to lots of goodies. I get asked on FB all the time random questions from guys here who try to befriend me for job reasons. This is a country known for "estómagos agradecidos" (grateful stomachs) since anything worth it here is through connections and social ties. Not open at all.

I wear good clothes all the time and it's true that for that reason I get a lot of respect from people. In fact when I've been to bars they sometimes think I'm the owner or manager or someone VIP.

This is a country where people are always trying to impress each other with what they can. In my case, it helps a lot that I own a business and look like a boss, but the FB thing is so true. They always put pics up of fake restaurants they've never even visited just to look social enough. It's quite sad really.

Italy is probably very similar indeed.

Yes, Italy and Spain are very similar countries...I'd say all South Europeans countries are the same in this aspect. Incredible close and cold people toward strangers.
I'm in East Europe now...the stereotype says people here are cold, but I've found the people here really friendly. You can talk to locals without any problem...they even opened me sometimes offering me drinks (males) and introducing me to their friends. In Italy and in South Europe it would never happen. Some people here got out of their way to help me. They only shitty people I met are taxi drivers.

And you're right about the dressing thing. It's indeed very important....everything matter in this part of the world (South Europe). They glances at you and your social networks' profiles and they quickly make a judgment whether or not you be to any use for them by looking at how you look, how many social connections you have, how much money you have, in which city you live yada yada yada

Friendships aren't really genuine, they're all made out of convenience. Everybody here look like he/her has thousands of friends but in reality they're lucky if they have one real true friend....

...

Friendships: I always say that Spanish friends are good for one night of fakeness and shallow fun, but if you were ever in a clear and present danger, most of them would run away and definitely not help you. You seem them going out in large groups but like you say, they are just there for the good time, not really genuine at all. It gets even worse in smaller cities because at least in Madrid most people are from a different part of Spain, but if you go to small cities then it's even more closed and people stick to what they know.

Most of the people I met in Spain over the years stop talking to me once they a) get/find what they want or if I happen to give an opinion they don't like or if you move away, they just shut you off completely. No cards, no letters, no simple "Haven't seen you in a while, how are you"? , etc. Come to Spain to have a good time for a night, but don't expect to make any real and lasting friendships with the Spanish.

And yeah I can NEVER in a million years imagine a Spanish group of friends randomly getting drinks for a guy they didn't know. You will only ever see that in the US and now I know Eastern Europe too thanks to your info.

Don't trust anyone here and you will be fine...be your own boss, be confident and you will rule as long as you keep expectations low of the general population.

I never got an answer to this: where do you expect to find people that aren't like this? Sounds like anywhere in Europe or the US at least.

Im sorry but it is extremely different in the US and most people know that...especially well-traveled people. American social circles are no where near as closed as the Spanish or other Europeans and it is extremely easy to walk up to strangers and talk to them in a bar without being thought of as a freak of nature. I dare you to try that in Madrid or even, dare I say, London.

And Americans do tend to send letters or postcards if they were/are your friend. Spaniards forget you once you leave their city...it's as though nothing ever happened. I am sorry, but you cannot even begin to compare American friendliness with Spanish social circles.

[Going strong]

(08-27-2016 06:30 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

I was raised to defend freedom, limited government, protestant-style liberties...not this Catholic fascist or authoritarian bullcrap. One of the reasons why Spanish women are so repressed about sex is precisely due to that Catholic background which is thankfully, FINALLY, disappearing.

Yeah, the "reds" raped nuns...and the Catholic Church abducted children and MURDERED many, many people. As an institution, no other has done more damage to freedom and prosperity like the Roman Catholic Church.

You claim to love "protestant-style" countries, but you chose to live in Spain (instead of say, the Netherlands)... Not logical.

"Catholic fascist... the Catholic Church abducted children and MURDERED many, many people. As an institution, no other has done more damage to freedom and prosperity like the Roman Catholic Church " :


You sound like a bloody Femen. I noticed earlier on this thread that you were using Soros-like arguments and falsities, to tarnish Spanish traditions (including the corrida de toro, man, let the Spaniards in peace) and the dignified (and currently winning, see the deal he made today with Ciudadanos) center-right conservative leader, Rajoy.

Anyway, to sum it up: you hate Spaniards, male and female alike, you loathe Basques, Conservative values and catholic people... So, why don't you leave Spain and go live in Amsterdam? You'll be very happy there. Freedom, degeneracy, free drugs, etc, it'll be so much fun after "fascist catholic repressed Spain"

[Going strong]

(08-27-2016 06:30 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

the Catholic Church abducted children and MURDERED many, many people. As an institution, no other has done more damage to freedom and prosperity like the Roman Catholic Church.

The kind of damaging and hateful bullshit one hears from the dirty mouths of Femen activists. Not the serious, intelligent and documented data that one usually reads on this forum. Because, (real) History is not what MSM, Soros-funded universities, and your local Femen leader, taught you.

So, receive a lesson in real, truthful, red-pill History: no other institution has done more to freedom of countries and people, harmonious development, global peace, arts and prosperity, like the Roman Catholic Church. It's a fact.

[atlant]

Baldrich's comments reveal this forum's great dichotomy, though it rarely rears its head in such an acerbic and condescending fashion: Traditional family values, preservation of national identity, social integrity and suspicion towards foreigners are all great except when it's me on the receiving end trying to make a profit from locals and fucking their women - then the guys are all narrow-minded, fascist xenophobes and the girls uptight bitches. "Just why won't they take my cosmopolitan American dick already?! What a bunch of backwater idiots"

I go to Spain every summer and while I have a bunch of Spanish friends and banged Spanish girls I have no illusions whatsoever about ever being fully accepted into their society. Same goes for Taiwan, where I spend the rest of the year. It's the way the world outside the US (and maybe the UK) works, and you have no right to judge anyone for it. If you don't like it, then move your ass to the great USA. It takes a special kind of fool to waste 10 years of your life in a place you don't like.

Also, a generalization like this:

Quote:

Spaniards forget you once you leave their city...it's as though nothing ever happened.

tells me that maybe you're just not very good at making friends. Though I suspect that since you obviously don't consider Spanish people your equal, you're simply reaping what you sow here.

[Going strong]

(08-28-2016 12:10 PM)atlant Wrote:  

Baldrich's comments reveal this forum's great dichotomy, though it rarely rears its head in such an acerbic and condescending fashion: Traditional family values, preservation of national identity, social integrity and suspicion towards foreigners are all great except when it's me on the receiving end trying to make a profit from locals and fucking their women - then the guys are all narrow-minded, fascist xenophobes and the girls uptight bitches. "Just why won't they take my cosmopolitan American dick already?! What a bunch of backwater idiots"

I go to Spain every summer and while I have a bunch of Spanish friends and banged Spanish girls I have no illusions whatsoever about ever being fully accepted into their society. Same goes for Taiwan, where I spend the rest of the year. It's the way the world outside the US (and maybe the UK) works, and you have no right to judge anyone for it. If you don't like it, then move your ass to the great USA. It takes a special kind of fool to waste 10 years of your life in a place you don't like.

Also, a generalization like this:

Quote:

Spaniards forget you once you leave their city...it's as though nothing ever happened.

tells me that maybe you're just not very good at making friends. Though I suspect that since you obviously don't consider Spanish people your equal, you're simply reaping what you sow here.

If it were only one generalization. But Baldrich has been posting generalization after (xenophobic) generalization after (dumb) generalization after (disingenuous) generalization, about Spaniards, on 2 separate threads about "fascistic and full of Spanishness" Spain. Please.

Anyway, back to good (Spanish) vibes: Spain gets the Gold, Baldrich on suicide watch:

[Baldrich]

(08-28-2016 11:28 AM)Going strong Wrote:  

(08-27-2016 06:30 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

I was raised to defend freedom, limited government, protestant-style liberties...not this Catholic fascist or authoritarian bullcrap. One of the reasons why Spanish women are so repressed about sex is precisely due to that Catholic background which is thankfully, FINALLY, disappearing.

Yeah, the "reds" raped nuns...and the Catholic Church abducted children and MURDERED many, many people. As an institution, no other has done more damage to freedom and prosperity like the Roman Catholic Church.

You claim to love "protestant-style" countries, but you chose to live in Spain (instead of say, the Netherlands)... Not logical.

"Catholic fascist... the Catholic Church abducted children and MURDERED many, many people. As an institution, no other has done more damage to freedom and prosperity like the Roman Catholic Church " :


You sound like a bloody Femen. I noticed earlier on this thread that you were using Soros-like arguments and falsities, to tarnish Spanish traditions (including the corrida de toro, man, let the Spaniards in peace) and the dignified (and currently winning, see the deal he made today with Ciudadanos) center-right conservative leader, Rajoy.

Anyway, to sum it up: you hate Spaniards, male and female alike, you loathe Basques, Conservative values and catholic people... So, why don't you leave Spain and go live in Amsterdam? You'll be very happy there. Freedom, degeneracy, free drugs, etc, it'll be so much fun after "fascist catholic repressed Spain"

There is no "hate" in what I've said. I've given a very clear picture on Spain and have the years here to back me up (that and business experience). So what you are saying is simply not true, makes no sense and I'm astounded as to how you would come up with those conclusions.

Rajoy and Ciudadanos are awful (as are ALL Spanish politics) and they are not freedom minded or business friendly at all. Not that it matters anyways since actually it is easy to disregard many regulations in Spain.

Who said anything about free drugs? I hate that crap...and there are more drugs in Spain by the way, as I pointed out earlier with statistical facts. I doubt Holland has "protestant style" liberties these days...and you simply do not understand what that means if you have mentioned Holland in your reply. I was talking about Constitutional freedoms that have their origin in Cromwell's war against absolutism although I'm not going to get into that debate for now.

And no, I make no apologies about condemning bullfighting (barbaric) or repressed Catholicism. Why you assume that means I'm some kind of fem or commie is beyond me but I don't really expect logic or rational thinking from people who defend bullfights or Francoism. So...there's that.

The reason I chose, admittedly, to live in Spain was because I like to try DIFFERENT and new things. So I did...and it didn't work out quite the way I wanted so I am free to move on. Thankfully I can make that choice.

[Baldrich]

(08-28-2016 11:40 AM)Going strong Wrote:  

(08-27-2016 06:30 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

the Catholic Church abducted children and MURDERED many, many people. As an institution, no other has done more damage to freedom and prosperity like the Roman Catholic Church.

The kind of damaging and hateful bullshit one hears from the dirty mouths of Femen activists. Not the serious, intelligent and documented data that one usually reads on this forum. Because, (real) History is not what MSM, Soros-funded universities, and your local Femen leader, taught you.

So, receive a lesson in real, truthful, red-pill History: no other institution has done more to freedom of countries and people, harmonious development, global peace, arts and prosperity, like the Roman Catholic Church. It's a fact.

Right, ok. So if a femen says 2+2 = 4 I have to automatically go ahead and say no, it's 5! That's the typical lack of logic you get in Spain, so no surprise here either.

I have no idea what "msm" teaches since I rarely watch TV or buy into the brainwashing...but that doesn't mean I have to accept barbarism as I see it and torturing a bull is barbaric. Sorry...but Spain is no paradise...and you sound like a hysterical chick when someone doesn't agree with her. Really. Grow up.

[Baldrich]

(08-28-2016 12:10 PM)atlant Wrote:  

Baldrich's comments reveal this forum's great dichotomy, though it rarely rears its head in such an acerbic and condescending fashion: Traditional family values, preservation of national identity, social integrity and suspicion towards foreigners are all great except when it's me on the receiving end trying to make a profit from locals and fucking their women - then the guys are all narrow-minded, fascist xenophobes and the girls uptight bitches. "Just why won't they take my cosmopolitan American dick already?! What a bunch of backwater idiots"

I go to Spain every summer and while I have a bunch of Spanish friends and banged Spanish girls I have no illusions whatsoever about ever being fully accepted into their society. Same goes for Taiwan, where I spend the rest of the year. It's the way the world outside the US (and maybe the UK) works, and you have no right to judge anyone for it. If you don't like it, then move your ass to the great USA. It takes a special kind of fool to waste 10 years of your life in a place you don't like.

Also, a generalization like this:

Quote:

Spaniards forget you once you leave their city...it's as though nothing ever happened.

tells me that maybe you're just not very good at making friends. Though I suspect that since you obviously don't consider Spanish people your equal, you're simply reaping what you sow here.

I have never been much of a pro "family values" guy in the rancid sense...or Judeo-Christian meaning. Who said they DON'T take my dick? LOL. What I have said stands and even most people who are Spanish and have lived abroad AGREE with me. And no, I've NEVER been treated differently here because I SPEAK the language NATIVELY....for the umpteenth time. Some of you guys don't read. It is ONLY when I tell them where I was born that they make stupid comments...but I tend to keep personal stuff to myself with people I don't know.

As for the rest about Spanish not being my equal...that would be quite odd since I DO HAVE Spanish background. Ridiculous. The whole point about this in particular is that EVEN if you speak NATIVELY and have Spanish background, once they find out you were born in the US, they will call you "El Americano" and assume you eat hot dogs and hamburgers. I mean c'mon even Spanish people on this discussion have admitted that this is how MOST Spaniards behave...even in professional business settings the kind of comments made are of such an unprofessional level that of course they'd be fired in many other European countries and of course in the US. I sincerely doubt you have the business experience I have in Spain, so let's not go there.

[Baldrich]

atlant Wrote:

It takes a special kind of fool to waste 10 years of your life in a place you don't like.

The dislike wasn't automatic, obviously. I think a real fool is on who makes absurd assumptions without 1) reading what I have said and 2) disregards the observations made by someone with OVER 10 years experience living in a country, who actually SPEAKS the language NATIVELY, and has background from the country.

But whatever...at this point I don't bother with people who don't read.

[Gopnik]

As a Spaniard, I can vouch for much of what Baldrich is saying, although he does seem to be repeating himself and makes frequent generalizations. I also understand some of his surprise of not being fully accepted despite having spanish heritage and speaking fluent, native spanish. This being said, I think it would be interesting to hear more about what made him stay so long there despite all the negatives. Surely there must have been some positive things that made you spend a decade in Spain.

(08-28-2016 11:28 AM)Going strong Wrote:  

You sound like a bloody Femen. I noticed earlier on this thread that you were using Soros-like arguments and falsities, to tarnish Spanish traditions (including the corrida de toro, man, let the Spaniards in peace) and the dignified (and currently winning, see the deal he made today with Ciudadanos) center-right conservative leader, Rajoy.

Corridas are dumb as fuck and most spaniards are against them. I'm certain they will completely cease to exist within 20 years time. Most plazas are rarely full and the companies involved are going bankrupt except for those receiving government subsidies. As for Spanish politics, it's much more complicated than that. Yes, M. Rajoy and his Partido Popular ("conservatives") are better than a far left government led by radical Podemos, but sadly this is nothing more than choosing the lesser evil. Rajoy's party is corrupt to the bone and many of it's members are arrogant, inept career polititians that have created the economic disaster that is now Spain.

(08-28-2016 11:40 AM)Going strong Wrote:  

So, receive a lesson in real, truthful, red-pill History: no other institution has done more to freedom of countries and people, harmonious development, global peace, arts and prosperity, like the Roman Catholic Church. It's a fact.

Would you mind expanding on this? How exactly is this a "fact"?

[Baldrich]

Going strong Wrote:

If it were only one generalization. But Baldrich has been posting generalization after (xenophobic) generalization after (dumb) generalization after (disingenuous) generalization, about Spaniards, on 2 separate threads about "fascistic and full of Spanishness" Spain. Please.

Who sounds like the femen now? LOL. "Don't generalize don't generalize don't generalize!!!" you sound just as whiny. "He's generalizing!!!! So unfair!!!! Ohh...so sorry to not say how great Spain is...in your dream world...a place with no drugs, no feminists...where all is perfect.

[Baldrich]

(08-28-2016 01:30 PM)Gopnik Wrote:  

As a Spaniard, I can vouch for much of what Baldrich is saying, although he does seem to be repeating himself and makes frequent generalizations. I also understand some of his surprise of not being fully accepted despite having spanish heritage and speaking fluent, native spanish. This being said, I think it would be interesting to hear more about what made him stay so long there despite all the negatives. Surely there must have been some positive things that made you spend a decade in Spain.

(08-28-2016 11:28 AM)Going strong Wrote:  

You sound like a bloody Femen. I noticed earlier on this thread that you were using Soros-like arguments and falsities, to tarnish Spanish traditions (including the corrida de toro, man, let the Spaniards in peace) and the dignified (and currently winning, see the deal he made today with Ciudadanos) center-right conservative leader, Rajoy.

Corridas are dumb as fuck and most spaniards are against them. I'm certain they will completely cease to exist in 20 years time. Most plazas are rarely completely full and the companies involved are going bankrupt except for those receiving government subsidies. As for Spanish politics, it's much more complicated than that. Yes, M. Rajoy and his Partido Popular ("conservatives") are better than a far left government led by radical Podemos, but sadly this is nothing more than choosing the lesser evil. Rajoy's party is corrupt to the bone and many of it's members are arrogant, inept career polititians that have created the economic disaster that is now Spain.

(08-28-2016 11:40 AM)Going strong Wrote:  

So, receive a lesson in real, truthful, red-pill History: no other institution has done more to freedom of countries and people, harmonious development, global peace, arts and prosperity, like the Roman Catholic Church. It's a fact.

Would you mind expanding on this? How exactly is this a "fact"?

I am going to write a post about the positives...but they are not relevant here so that's why I haven't mentioned them.

As for "why" I stayed so long...because as I said earlier, the first few years are truly enjoyable because of the care free Spanish lifestyle...but that gets old eventually and then you begin to see how nothing in this country ever changes (I mean, the fundamental things that MUST change don't)...so I grew more and more bored with what was happening and finally decided to eventually move. Don't get me wrong, business is still going well for me and life "is good", but I still prefer other things. Spain is an excellent country to spend LONG vacation periods, but not to live permanently. Most of the wealthiest Spaniards DO NOT live here, as you know.

[Going strong]

(08-28-2016 01:06 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

(08-28-2016 11:40 AM)Going strong Wrote:  

(08-27-2016 06:30 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

the Catholic Church abducted children and MURDERED many, many people. As an institution, no other has done more damage to freedom and prosperity like the Roman Catholic Church.

The kind of damaging and hateful bullshit one hears from the dirty mouths of Femen activists. Not the serious, intelligent and documented data that one usually reads on this forum. Because, (real) History is not what MSM, Soros-funded universities, and your local Femen leader, taught you.

So, receive a lesson in real, truthful, red-pill History: no other institution has done more to freedom of countries and people, harmonious development, global peace, arts and prosperity, like the Roman Catholic Church. It's a fact.

Right, ok. So if a femen says 2+2 = 4 I have to automatically go ahead and say no, it's 5! That's the typical lack of logic you get in Spain, so no surprise here either.

I have no idea what "msm" teaches since I rarely watch TV or buy into the brainwashing...but that doesn't mean I have to accept barbarism as I see it and torturing a bull is barbaric. Sorry...but Spain is no paradise...and you sound like a hysterical chick when someone doesn't agree with her. Really. Grow up.

Reason I compare you with a Femen is, you do talk, word for word, like a Femen (quoting you, or is it Soros?: "the Catholic Church abducted children and MURDERED many, many people. As an institution, no other has done more damage to freedom and prosperity like the Roman Catholic Church "), on the Catholic church, but also on the "cruel, macho" corrida, "fascist" Rajoy, etc...

Now, back to your explanation: "So if a femen says 2+2 = 4 I have to automatically go ahead and say no, it's 5!".

Problem is, the Femen do NOT say 2+2 = 4, they say 2+2 = minus 8, and you repeat their twisted maths.

So, well, in the US they have a saying, If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck, so applying it to you: quacking like a Femen, you probably are (a sympathizer).

And now we know that you actually have Spanish roots! The plot thickens! Self-hatred in any case is very common in leftists. It's even at the core of their personality. Sad. Be proud, hombre, having Spanish blood, it's having the blood of fearless conquerors, of the heroes of Americas and the reconquista. Shed your MSM-induced shame of the greatness of your people. Shout Santiago, feel the pride of being a Spaniard!

[Baldrich]

(08-28-2016 01:51 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

(08-28-2016 01:06 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

(08-28-2016 11:40 AM)Going strong Wrote:  

(08-27-2016 06:30 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

the Catholic Church abducted children and MURDERED many, many people. As an institution, no other has done more damage to freedom and prosperity like the Roman Catholic Church.

The kind of damaging and hateful bullshit one hears from the dirty mouths of Femen activists. Not the serious, intelligent and documented data that one usually reads on this forum. Because, (real) History is not what MSM, Soros-funded universities, and your local Femen leader, taught you.

So, receive a lesson in real, truthful, red-pill History: no other institution has done more to freedom of countries and people, harmonious development, global peace, arts and prosperity, like the Roman Catholic Church. It's a fact.

Right, ok. So if a femen says 2+2 = 4 I have to automatically go ahead and say no, it's 5! That's the typical lack of logic you get in Spain, so no surprise here either.

I have no idea what "msm" teaches since I rarely watch TV or buy into the brainwashing...but that doesn't mean I have to accept barbarism as I see it and torturing a bull is barbaric. Sorry...but Spain is no paradise...and you sound like a hysterical chick when someone doesn't agree with her. Really. Grow up.

Reason I compare you with a Femen is, you do talk, word for word, like a Femen (quoting you, or is it Soros?: "the Catholic Church abducted children and MURDERED many, many people. As an institution, no other has done more damage to freedom and prosperity like the Roman Catholic Church "), on the Catholic church, but also on the "cruel, macho" corrida, "fascist" Rajoy, etc...

Now, back to your explanation: "So if a femen says 2+2 = 4 I have to automatically go ahead and say no, it's 5!".

Problem is, the Femen do NOT say 2+2 = 4, they say 2+2 = minus 8, and you repeat their twisted maths.

So, well, in the US they have a saying, If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck, so applying it to you: quacking like a Femen, you probably are (a sympathizer).

And now we know that you actually have Spanish roots! The plot thickens! Self-hatred in any case is very common in leftists. It's even at the core of their personality. Sad. Be proud, hombre, having Spanish blood, it's having the blood of fearless conquerors, of the heroes of Americas and the reconquista. Shed your MSM-induced shame of the greatness of your people. Shout Santiago, feel the pride of being a Spaniard!

How many times do I have to say I DO NOT watch or accept what the "msm" says? You are so tedious to deal with because you just keep repeating the same bs over and over again to see if somehow it will stick and you change my mind. It's not going to happen, you don't know Spain, you probably, MOST LIKELY don't have business experience here...and as for the self-hate...ON THE CONTRARY! Actually, it is most Spaniards who say I should NOT be proud of any heritage and instead embrace more the USA! So you see again what you are saying is just crap and you are making insane assumptions.

With regard to the Catholic Church, any serious historian will say the same. Catholic Church has been a negative force in the world, not anything positive.

By the way, the colonization of the Americas by Spain is nothing to be proud about. They were a disaster...and still are. How can anyone be proud of creating third world countries? Believe me, I used to put the Spanish flag and it was actually Spanish people who told me not to...that it didn't make sense for an "americano" to do that...so whatever. Spanish people DO NOT accept me as Spanish anyway so why bother? I learned that in the end, you really are from where you are respected and accepted as an equal or at least, left alone.

And no, I am not going to be shouting "Santiago" any time soon. I don't know if you are a troll or just simply trying to annoy me...but you really sound ridiculous. If any Spaniard did that they'd be the laugh of the town...and with good reason. What century are you living in? With that kind of attitude, of course you definitely are NOT going to be picking up women any time soon. Youd' scare them away with all that nonsense.

[Going strong]

(08-28-2016 01:30 PM)Gopnik Wrote:  

(08-28-2016 11:40 AM)Going strong Wrote:  

So, receive a lesson in real, truthful, red-pill History: no other institution has done more to freedom of countries and people, harmonious development, global peace, arts and prosperity, like the Roman Catholic Church. It's a fact.

Would you mind expanding on this? How exactly is this a "fact"?

Simple. Without the Catholic Church, there wouldn't have been unity, progress and organization in Europe. Without unity, progress and organization in Europe, the world would have stayed a backward place (except maybe a few countries in Asia, like China, Vietnam, Thailand, or Iran, who had their own, old and enlightened civilizations)... The Catholic Church is inseparable from European History - and reciprocally -, and Europe is responsible for most of the technological and artistic blessings existing in the world, so... draw the conclusion.