[articulatecool]

I recently started seeing and hooking up with this 21 year old 8.5-9/10 Chinese-American girl. She is by far the best looking girl I have hooked up with and everything about her appearance turns me on. She is a total freak in the sheets and she even reminded me to wrap it when we were about to smash (i was going to anyway, but she was so conscious about). Seems to be experienced and cautious for a 21 year old.

After sex the other night, she was asking me questions such as, "are you a cuddler? do you usually kick the girl out after sex?" I finally followed with "ok what are you getting at? lets talk about what you want from this"...

And she freaks out saying "Articulatecool! Can you not?! Why can't you just go with the flow? It's fun with a little mystery!"

Now this threw me off, because our previous dates consisted of conversations regarding what we wanted in a relationship, etc. I thought she was interested in dating seriously and I was just gonna try to smash. Turns out, she just wants sex from me (or at least she's signaling that). I am not used to this. I am used to girls wanting a relationship and wanting to be exclusive with me.

I felt like a total bitch. She wants pretty much FWB, every man's dream, but I had to question it. My beta came out because this girl is pretty high up there and I want to keep her around for as long as possible.

What should I do? My gut tells me to make her want a relationship, so then that gives me control. I would rather her not fuck other dudes while fucking me.

[General Stalin]

It is never a man's role to convince a female to commit to a relationship. Thats her job. If she wants a relationship you will know it. If she is giving away pussy NSA then keep taking it. Eventually you will get tired of fucking her just like any other girl. Also stop pedestaling - there are millions and millions of other hot pieces of ass in the world. Thousands of them live right in your local area.

[Travesty]

This is the worst thing about American women.

Never ask about other guys. Never show your cards. Never hint at a future. Anything relationship oriented blow it off with "happy spending time with you and going with the flow". This is why with American girls that are high quality it is almost imperative to have other plates spinning while you are seeing her in the beginning.

The only time you do anything is if she gives you an ultimatum usually after 2-3 months with "where is this going?" in a very serious "let's talk" tone. Before that try to subject change away from it as best you can with humor until she breaks down and confronts you. Breaking the horse.

Even then if you want the relationship you better get her to answer what she wants out of things very clearly first. Even if she says "yes I want you to be my boyfriend I don't want to see anyone else, I really like you." Don't say yes there and then! Say you really like spending time with her and care about her and say you need to think about it. Even make up that you got out of a relationship within the last year and need some time to reflect if you really want this. Keep her on edge.

Best is to make her work for it for another few months before giving in and tell her things about her that you want to see out of her before you make a decision.

On her phone too much? Point it out. Letting guy friends too close to her? Let her know that will never be a real relationship then. Dresses sloppy sometimes? Bitches too much at certain times? This is the make or break time where you need to be willing to walk to get the best deal. If your Game is good you can demand quite a bit. You have to be firm or it means nothing though.

This is the bargain table when you have the most leverage to mold her into the girlfriend you want. The more you expect out of her using a sense of poise and Game the more she will invest and mold to what you want.

Unfortunately in today's climate guys will have to drop a few glasses, break a few eggs on their first go-arounds fucking things up during this love negotiation process.

[articulatecool]

(08-17-2016 05:43 PM)Travesty Wrote:  

Even then if you want the relationship you better get her to answer what she wants out of things very clearly. Even if she says "yes I want you to be my boyfriend I don't want to see anyone else, I really like you." Don't say yes there and then!

Here is the kicker - I don't want a serious relationship with this girl. There are too many dudes offering the D, and she will take one in her mouth the moment she and I argue. I know that she won't last as a plate, cuz she revealed that she has had FWBs before.

But I DO want her to want one so that she can be exclusive with me. This is what I'm used to and I have discovered that it lasts as long as I want when I am in control.

But yes, as General Stalin points out, I have to stop pedastalling. I'm just way too excited that I'm finally hooking up with close to a 9/10, that I let go of my frame.

[Travesty]

So you want a side piece mini-LTR exclusive to you. Same rules apply. You cannot do the fuck buddy game of seeing her once a week to bang and have tea and still think you can keep her exclusive to you.

The only way you get exclusivity out of a girl is giving her the illusion she is working hard to win you and have you be in her future.

You want to stop pedestalling?

Easy. Sneak a look at her phone pictures and texts when she falls asleep one night.

[General Stalin]

Hot girls man. They make you slip. Best advice I can give is to pretend all 9's are the same as 6's... because essentially they are. They're all just girls man, just some are nicer to look at is all.

[kaotic]

She was busting your balls and shit testing you.

You failed and she was soothing your feathers.

Don't ever mention this again, always treat questions like that as a joke.

Stalin and Trav have given you sound advice about how to pursue anything moving forward.

[articulatecool]

(08-17-2016 05:59 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

Hot girls man. They make you slip. Best advice I can give is to pretend all 9's are the same as 6's... because essentially they are. They're all just girls man, just some are nicer to look at is all.

That's the thing, I usually fuck with 7s. This 9 has me slipping so much that I don't even mind cuddling with her. I almost let her spend the night two nights ago and I never let bitches do that.

[Travesty]

I don't understand the don't let the girls spend the night rule. To me that is fear speaking. With American chicks most of them especially younger ones in my experience want to leave a lot of the time anyways even when they really like you because they fear more than anything being perceived as vulnerable and clingy.

If the chick is cool (if she isn't yeah kick her out after sex) as long as you act cool about it both sleeping next to her and in the morning (not acting too glad) then it can actually help your cause a lot for repeat bangs and getting exclusivity.

She has to be the one to ask though and when she does you have to be very cool about it.

Thinking back I don't think I have ever asked a long term fuck buddy to sleep over. They always are the ones to do it.

[articulatecool]

(08-17-2016 06:02 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

She was busting your balls and shit testing you.

You failed and she was soothing your feathers.

Don't ever mention this again, always treat questions like that as a joke.

Stalin and Trav have given you sound advice about how to pursue anything moving forward.

Will do. I made the mistake of planning 2 dates this week. I saw her Monday evening and will be seeing her again tonight. I wanted to fuck the shit out of her before she left for vegas next weekend, in hopes of her staying away from dudes. But after talking to you guys, I realized I cannot control that.


Here is me slipping again. I'm gonna treat this bitch like shit from now on.

[Travesty]

Yeah that text was awful.

She is lecturing you like a boy.

The sex innuendo is too thirsty.

Doing it right is her sending an unsolicited pic in the morning of her in bra and panties or less touching herself, and you ignoring it until after lunch time.

Not saying I have the best text game which is a weaker suit of mine.

To the "we've had sex as many times as we've hung out".

I'd respond with something as simple as "not bad" depending on the girl add a thumbs up or sunglasses emoji knowing the text style she enjoys.

[Onto]

Notice how the first two texts of yours, you are commanding, and the last one you are asking (begging really).

She smelled weakness and that's when she pounced.

[kaotic]

Yeah man slow your roll.

Slow down on the replies to her, take your time with that.

KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid)

I always reread my texts before sending them and wait.

Stay distant, keep the text light and friendly.

[articulatecool]

(08-17-2016 06:14 PM)Onto Wrote:  

Notice how the first two texts of yours, you are commanding, and the last one you are asking (begging really).

She smelled weakness and that's when she pounced.

The good news is she still seems to be at least slightly interested - sending me pics of her legs and her dress, teasing to come over and turn me on. Is 2 dates a week ok? She likes spontaneity, like texting me at 9pm asking to come over. I usually reject her, cuz I'm usually with the main a lot, but I don't want her to lose interest.


Oh and another thing the other night, we were talking about oral birth control, and she said that there isn't really a point to oral birth control unless you're in a monogamous relationship - hinting that she doesn't want that with me right now. She has never asked about other girls and has never shit tested me about who I'm seeing at the moment. This bitch is playing me.

I gotta treat her like a 6 with all my being

[Travesty]

If a girl like this dialed me in the morning and I missed it I may or may not text back until that night with "you call?" Otherwise I'd stick to meet up logistics for banging and if that conversation had some time for humor I'd add it. If they really want to talk especially a young girl they leave a voicemail.

This is very very early to get into the weeds with a young American 9 girl. She has to be way more invested in my mind to text so free. I know the treat a 9 like a 6 the reality is if you slip up with a 6 though can forgive. A 9 has too many other options.

[General Stalin]

(08-17-2016 06:06 PM)Travesty Wrote:  

I don't understand the don't let the girls spend the night rule. To me that is fear speaking. With American chicks most of them especially younger ones in my experience want to leave a lot of the time anyways even when they really like you because they fear more than anything being perceived as vulnerable and clingy.

If the chick is cool (if she isn't yeah kick her out after sex) as long as you act cool about it both sleeping next to her and in the morning (not acting too glad) then it can actually help your cause a lot for repeat bangs and getting exclusivity.

She has to be the one to ask though and when she does you have to be very cool about it.

Thinking back I don't think I have ever asked a long term fuck buddy to sleep over. They always are the ones to do it.

My thoughts exactly, and your experience mirrors mine. Most chicks will let themselves out.

A lot of dudes here say they don't sleep well with a girl in the same bed as them. I guess to each there own, but as long as a girl isn't unsavory then I'm all for having them stay the night. Same deal - I don't ask them to sleep over, but I certainly don't kick them out unless there is some reason I have to (e.g. another girl coming over in the morning; this has happened before).

Don't need to "treat her like shit" necessarily - just be more distant and less thirsty. Like I said, treat her like any regular plate you'd be banging. Don't treat her special and she won't think she has any kind of leverage over you. Girls are very good at reading how you supplicate to them, whether subconscious or not, and they will take advantage of it, or get turned off by it and ghost.

[Travesty]

I have gone through a few girls phones to see what their other suitors were like.

The one they talk about and remember fondly and would bang at the drop of the hat have airtight text game. No fuck ups. Everything is a fun inside joke, zero thirst, logistics set up for fun meet ups, the other dude always seems on the ball and busy.

I have also read the horrific long argument texts of bitter orbiters.

Lastly I have read guys with too much asshole game looking strictly for an easy fuck buddy. This is too strong and terse. Girls will stick around for a few rounds but quickly quit especially if they have some options.

You want to be the first guy described and it is more like you are slipping into the second guy and wanting to become the asshole third.

Don't fall for asshole game. Just relax and enjoy. Be a player. Zen. BlurredSevens, G, and Gio are masters at this.

[articulatecool]

(08-17-2016 06:06 PM)Travesty Wrote:  

I don't understand the don't let the girls spend the night rule. To me that is fear speaking. With American chicks most of them especially younger ones in my experience want to leave a lot of the time anyways even when they really like you because they fear more than anything being perceived as vulnerable and clingy.

Personally, I have sleep issues when a chick is sleeping next to me. But for this girl, she smells good, everything about her is clean, I'll probably let her sleep over tonight. She was hinting strongly that she wishes she couldve slept over the other night, but I kicked her out. Attached is the text she sent when she got home. (I know, my text game is cringe worthy).

[Travesty]

That actually was very good in my opinion, especially since she initiated so much interest in that text it would be weird if you ignored or acted like an asshole when she is being sweet.

Stay with that, light and fun, deny her once in awhile. Make her work for it.

You cut her off and said night first which is very good. Leave on a high note like George Costanza.

[articulatecool]

(08-17-2016 06:24 PM)Travesty Wrote:  

I have gone through a few girls phones to see what their other suitors were like.

The one they talk about and remember fondly and would bang at the drop of the hat have airtight text game. No fuck ups. Everything is a fun inside joke, zero thirst, logistics set up for fun meet ups, the other dude always seems on the ball and busy.

I have also read the horrific long argument texts of bitter orbiters.

Lastly I have read guys with too much asshole game looking strictly for an easy fuck buddy. This is too strong and terse. Girls will stick around for a few rounds but quickly quit especially if they have some options.

You want to be the first guy described and it is more like you are slipping into the second guy and wanting to become the asshole third.

Don't fall for asshole game. Just relax and enjoy. Be a player. Zen. BlurredSevens, G, and Gio are masters at this.

Yeah, I am trying to avoid the "too much asshole guy" game because I know she wants to be courted a little. Especially with asian girls, I have found that somewhere in the middle is the sweet spot.

That's why for this Asian-American 9/10, I thought making her want a LTR would be beneficial. I'd give her just enough for her to stick around, and I'd get all the sex with a 9 that I want. But now I'm rethinking my strategy, now that I'm hearing from you guys.

[Travesty]

Whenever your gut tingles and say this could be a wrong move before you text or say something simply shut up or put the phone down and wait it out until your gut smooths over.

As soon as you feel eager, stop. Cool off.

Best advice I can give.

I recently came from visiting Vietnam and met a nice attractive girl there on a pretty fun short date. I got her Vietnamese texting app and still text her a bit. I got liking to text her enough I was moving the app from page 5 of my phone to page 1. As soon as I did that my gut tingled. I put that app back on page 5 where it belongs. These mistakes always happen in the early phases and often slow boil especially as you gain experience.

[kaotic]

Good you're recovering.

Yeah asshole game isn't for everyone and it shouldn't be a staple.

I used to have that, now it's more like smart ass quick witted game, the girl I'm seeing tonight loves that I can come up with a retort at the drop of a dime.

It's funny how even with game, a 9 can throw that all off and we start asking questions or need help.

This has been a great thread so far.

[Travesty]

I think any player starts especially when younger probably too cocky and funny which works. I think for higher end girls and for better experiences that fun, witty, yet very firm when needed is where the golden mean is.

[articulatecool]

(08-17-2016 06:47 PM)Travesty Wrote:  

I think any player starts especially when younger probably too cocky and funny which works. I think for higher end girls and for better experiences that fun, witty, yet very firm when needed is where the golden mean is.

I agree. This girl's instagram is full of dudes commenting, with many photographers asking to take her pics, model agencies inviting her to audition, even a pro soccer player inviting her to his games. I can only imagine what her inbox looks like.

So you can maybe see why I slipped with this girl. But all in all, this has been a good ride so far, and if she decides she's done with me, I'll smile and gladly never forget her.

[General Stalin]

(08-17-2016 06:41 PM)Travesty Wrote:  

Whenever your gut tingles and say this could be a wrong move before you text or say something simply shut up or put the phone down and wait it out until your gut smooths overjerk off.

Fixed it for you.

Rubbing one out always helps clear my head when I'm about to do some thirsty ass beta shit. Once you get that nut out you're like "man wtf was I thinking..." then just go about your business.

I'd like to note that typically a thread like this would be damned for pedestalizing one girl and micro managing such an interaction, but I think really digging into nuts-and-bolts game here is pretty beneficial.