[nek]

Just a thought for discussion, but I was thinking about this earlier. Depending on currency really puts your nuts in a vice. Think about it, when currency can inflate, that a gallon of milk that costs 1 hour of your labor can later cost 3, even though it's the same turkey. It seems like dependency on currency is a massive mechanism for control, as it's value can be influenced by so many entities outside simple supply and demand. This, among other things, is why I feel that the current powers that be have a tighter control over the populous than ever before (surveillance technology and influence on the food supply being major factors as well). Thoughts?

[Peregrine]

Back in the day, kings could mint coins with less precious metal content than advertised.

There is nothing new under the sun.

[SunW]

Agreed.

What's your alternative though?

[Days of Broken Arrows]

(08-11-2016 06:29 PM)SunW Wrote:  

Agreed.

What's your alternative though?

The barter system. People do this on a low-level casual basis. It hasn't replaced currency and it won't. But it chips away at it.

I've done editing and letter writing for people in exchange for them doing taxes for me or letting me use office equipment I don't want to rent. Other people do the same in different ways.

And aren't there swap meets (or something of the sort) where people show up with things they don't want and exchange them for things they do? There should be more of this sort of thing, since it not only cuts out Uncle Sam, but builds community. (Unless you rip someone off, in which case it ruins community and they have to call in Uncle Sam's henchmen.)

[Suits]

On a small scale, you can definitely benefit from barter.

However, on a larger scale, you have several issues.

If you own property, the government is going to assess you land taxes and is certainly going to frown on payment being made in the form of strawberries, no matter how delectable.

If you don't own property and rather must rent, your landlord is probably not going to be cool with just letting you rake his leaves and shovel his driveway in exchange for the full portion of the amount due.

As well, legally, your landlord is required to pay taxes on earnings, regardless of what form they come in.

There is a third option, however, which has worked out promisingly for some. Simply live under a bridge and play guitar on a busy public street for a living. Best of luck.

[polar]

(08-11-2016 08:57 PM)Suits Wrote:  

On a small scale, you can definitely benefit from barter.
...
There is a third option, however, which has worked out promisingly for some. Simply live under a bridge and play guitar on a busy public street for a living. Best of luck.

Can I reward your guitar playing in delectable strawberries or will you only accept cold, hard currency?

[Suits]

(08-11-2016 09:50 PM)polar Wrote:  

(08-11-2016 08:57 PM)Suits Wrote:  

On a small scale, you can definitely benefit from barter.
...
There is a third option, however, which has worked out promisingly for some. Simply live under a bridge and play guitar on a busy public street for a living. Best of luck.

Can I reward your guitar playing in delectable strawberries or will you only accept cold, hard currency?

Only if you balance out the high sugar concentration in the strawberries with a protein source, carbs and some vegetables.

[Spindis]

If you are worried about inflation then don't stay in cash. Buy property/stocks/whatever.

Currency is little more than 'proof' that you did something to earn it so that someone else will give you equal value + a way to measure the value of things.

Taxes are the major annoyance of currency. Get rid of those + get a gold standard or something and there isn't much left to be worried about.

[Saweeep]

Currency is really just a storing mechanism of labour.

I'd like to hear what alternatives people have that wouldn't have us back in the dark ages by Christmas...

[trian1]

Whichever currency you are thinking of denouncing, please go ahead and do so. Renounce it to me. I will take all of it, every last bit, and you can be free and spread your ideas! PM me for Paypal details.....

[thoughtgypsy]

This is a great idea, definitely worthy of brainstorming solutions for. There's no need to be dismissive.

Yes, money is a store of wealth, and a bad one at that. It's constantly being eroded through inflation and taxation. We may not be able to come up with a perfect solution, but every bit helps. The less we rely on currency, the less we're forced to work and the more freedom we have.

I like the ideas being generated here. Buying physical assets that appreciate in value (relative to a depreciating currency) and bartering are good starts.

One of my buddies used to be a mechanic, and I asked him if $1000+ was reasonable for changing my brakes and rotors. "Fuck that man, buy the parts and I'll show you how it's done." I bought beer and some steaks and headed over to his place. We spent the day turning wrenches, shooting the shit, BBQing and drinking. I learned a skill, had a good time with a close friend, ate good food, and saved a ton of money. I saved enough to cover at least a week of my after tax wages.

Bartering is a great way to make friends, learn skills, and save money. Everyone should have a mechanic friend, a home improvement friend, a gardener friend, etc. I'm sure they'd be open if you were to call them up and say "Hey man, what are you doing saturday? Wanna have some drinks and a BBQ? I'm in over my head with this new kitchen I'm putting in, mind if I picked your brain on it?" You save money, he saves on what would have been a $100 night out.

With the money you save, you can put it towards other things that reduce your reliance even more. You can buy seeds and start a garden that lowers your grocery bill. You can buy modest housing for own use or to rent out. There's many options.

The less reliant we are on our governments and financial systems, the more freedom we have. Every little bit counts.

[bacan]

You would have to waste too much time negotiating fair trades via barter.

That's the nice thing about prices. It's already been done for you so it's fast and efficient... when you buy a gallon of milk you are basically silently agreeing to trade a few minutes of work you did for that item..

[Phoenix]

It's worth remembering that the government consists of people too. Cunts, but people nonetheless. They all just want to punch in in the morning and begrudgingly sit in their chair until they get to go home and receive their loot-derived paycheck.

They are not keeping tabs on you paying your neighbour in strawberries.

Let's not be good little boys and pretend they're more powerful than they are.

One thing you could do is just keep a secret clearinghouse tab with select trading partners. Price everything in the full dollar price, but only settle from time to time in cash. So long as you're able to avoid using the government's dispute resolution processes, and your trading partners aren't squealers, you could make more than twice as much money for the same work, by skirting around the government's thieves in places like Scandinavia. But in Singapore, why bother.

This is one more way monarchy kept things honest. If the king got a bit too evil it only took one motivated and particularly aggrieved slave amongst millions to go and give him what he deserved, and that frequently happened. Under democracy all he can do is yell into the wind.

[Tayo]

What about bitcoins? I heard it could replace currency in future.

[General Stalin]

Trading goods for currency is essentially bartering on a universal scale. It's a system that is incredibly old but efficient.

Bartering is nice but inefficient. Lets say you want food and you're good at working with computers. Lets say the local farmer doesn't need any computer work done and really has no need for your skills to trade for his goods. Well you could try to trade items, or do labor for someone else who will give you something the farmer may want so that he can then give you food. This is so fucking time consuming, round about, and confusing. Currency is a way to get a representation of your labor rendered that you can trade to anyone for goods and services. The market rate for whatever goods/services you would like to acquire is already factored in for you. If you make $15/hr answering phones at a tech support farm, and you buy a pair of shoes for $60, then it has been negotiated that those shoes are worth 4 hours of your labor based on what you contribute to society.

The question I ask is, what does a life without money look like to you? How would you rather live your day-to-day? In a barter system, people still have to do work for other people to get what they want. That changes nothing except there are no pieces of paper exchanging hands. The real "alternative" is to be self sufficient and live totally off the grid (not that this is really very possible these days). In order to do that you wouldn't be able to have the comforts and luxuries awarded by modern living. Your day-to-day would be farming, gathering supplies, hunting for food, etc. You'd have to live a primitive life.

[Bluto]

(08-12-2016 12:05 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

Currency is really just a storing mechanism of labour.

I'd like to hear what alternatives people have that wouldn't have us back in the dark ages by Christmas...

Quite right here. Currency is a medium of exchange more than anything else. We would have to go to the Bronze age to where we just used bartering to not use some form of currency.

[Bluto]

(08-12-2016 01:39 PM)Tayo Wrote:  

What about bitcoins? I heard it could replace currency in future.

Whether it is bit coins or real coins you are still using some form of currency. On another note, how many people actually use paper currency to physically pay for anything other than hobo's to not bother you? We are technically there where electronic transactions using the paper equivalent are replacing the actual paper transaction. I don't pay my bills using paper currency. I either use a check or electronic payment. I also don't get paid at my job using paper currency.

[Repo]

I use paper bills when I'm out at the bar because I don't like waiting for my card to be run.

[IvanDrago]

(08-12-2016 01:39 PM)Tayo Wrote:  

What about bitcoins? I heard it could replace currency in future.

Anything with a value as volatile as bitcoins isn't a currency. Bitcoins are like baseball cards or old comic books. Do they have a value? Sure, but I wouldn't want to try to pay my rent in Beanie Babies and Cabbage Patch Kids.

[booshala]

If you're looking at it from a purely academic standpoint, most of the posters have chimed in with what I think - there's really no alternative, so start making more money so you can at least better control your immediate situation and surroundings.

Barter works in small concentrated doses, but it's very limited in scalability and different measures of value for skills/goods make it extremely hard to enable both parties to feel like they got "a good deal" all the time. Many times the transaction relies on one party's goodwill in giving up more value to get the deal done, but again this is mitigated by the fact it's usually done with friends/family and it's usually small scale.

Can you imagine what you'd need to trade to effectively pay for a 3 bedroom 2 bathroom house in any metropolitan city? Like 5000 barrels of Brent crude or some shit... which is a flawed analogy already as I'm basically just multiplying $45 x 5000 to get a $225,000 USD value.