[Donkey George]

Too soon?

[TonySandos]

(07-21-2016 06:38 PM)Donkey George Wrote:  

Also handcuffed the mental health worker and left him on the ground for 20 minutes before giving him medical care:

Quote:

Kinsey told WSVN he was flipped over and handcuffed after the shooting. According to Napoleon, Kinsey was on the ground for 20 minutes before an ambulance arrived.

I don't know about this cops training profile, but not all cops are actually trained in first-aid.

Also it's impressive that the ambulance was there in under 30 minutes. That's around the average arrival time. There's a reason they train us on the 'platinum 10' and the 'golden hour'.

[weambulance]

(07-21-2016 06:43 PM)TonySandos Wrote:  

(07-21-2016 05:58 PM)FebGun Wrote:  

I wouldn't be surprise if the cop is army veteran. Soldier got trained to separate all people into two categories: "us" and "everybody else"; and in critical situation not to take any chance. Later that habit is hardened in a war zone.
They got hired by police, got trained in this and that but the way of thinking remains the same. And in a critical situation they just follow the instinct.

He doesn't know why he shot. Nor he understands why neighborhood treats him like foreign occupying force.

I'm not going to sit here quietly when a raging idiot such as yourself postulates without a grain of substance behind his claims.

"Soldier got trained to separate all people into two categories: "us" and "everybody else..."

Lol no we didn't.

"...and in critical situation not to take any chance."

Again, lol. You must've not been in many discussions about ROE. I can almost claim knowledge that you haven't based on such ignorance.



Bonus teary eyed negro spiritual material:

"Nor he understands why neighborhood treats him like foreign occupying force."

Oh LAWD they boot on ah necks! How will we eva suhvive!

You should follow the guidelines of this group and only post on expertise instead of silly conspiracy.

Depends entirely on the circumstances of a soldier's service. They've been neutering soldiers since about 2008, and that really got started in ~2005-2006. There's also a significant disconnect between what some douchebag lawyer teaches about ROE/EOF and what actually happens in the field when soldiers put keeping their buddies and themselves alive at the top of their priority list.

I was aghast at the ROE/EOF crap I saw put out in 2009, and more thankful than ever that a major knee injury got me med boarded instead of stop lossed.

I've made my views on police attitudes and SOPs, and the problems they cause, plain elsewhere so I'm not going to get into that now.

[Donkey George]

Quote:

I don't know about this cops training profile, but not all cops are actually trained in first-aid.

Also it's impressive that the ambulance was there in under 30 minutes. That's around the average arrival time. There's a reason they train us on the 'platinum 10' and the 'golden hour'.

Good point. Although it's easy to say "how could you not help a seemingly innocent person you just shot?", it's quite possible that an officer not trained in emergency medical care would be forbidden from rendering aid due to liability concerns, should it cause additional damage.

[Delta]

(07-21-2016 06:38 PM)Donkey George Wrote:  

Turns out it's even worse than thought. The cop was actually aiming for the autistic guy. He shot three rounds: missed the autistic guy and shot the caretaker on accident.

Quote:

“The movement of the white individual looked like he was getting ready to discharge a firearm into Mr. Kinsey,” said John Rivera, president of the Miami-Dade County Police Benevolent Association, according to WSVN. “and the officer discharged, trying to strike and stop the white male, and unfortunately, he missed.”

Also handcuffed the mental health worker and left him on the ground for 20 minutes before giving him medical care:

Quote:

Kinsey told WSVN he was flipped over and handcuffed after the shooting. According to Napoleon, Kinsey was on the ground for 20 minutes before an ambulance arrived.

What a fucking idiot. I'll even give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he didn't hear the caretaker when he yelled that it's just a toy truck. Still an idiot. I have no firearms training or experience whatsoever, but I can't imagine it's encouraged to shoot from such long range that a toy truck can be mistaken for a gun when there's an innocent person right next to your target, unless it's a clear life-or-death hostage situation.

Even more damning, he realizes he shot an innocent man by accident, and his response is to handcuff him and do nothing to slow the bleeding?! What the fuck kind of human being would have that little remorse?

I had no semblance of an emotional reaction to all the other cases where petty criminals with arrest records that looked like War And Peace were shot after fighting with police. But I seriously feel outraged after seeing this.

Nonetheless, the worst part of this is yet to come. Like clockwork, BLM will incite rioting and violence that will dwarf the harm of one guy being shot in the leg, and deranged SJWs will cheer them on. This cycle has to stop.

[Leonard D Neubache]

This is a grade A clusterfuck that couldn't have come at a worse time.

Beat cops in America need to ditch their AR15s pronto and start looking at something like this...



...or something like this...



If you arrive in a situation where someone supposedly has a gun and you can't immediately see one then it's a 99.9 percent chance that even if there's a gun it's only going to be a pistol, which in 99.9 percent of instances will be stopped by a combination of a vest and ballistic shield of some description.

This combination allows the officer to approach with a gun drawn and assess the situation from a closer vantage without seriously endangering themselves.

"Stand off with high powered rifles" is not an acceptable strategy every time some old biddy calls in clutching at her pearls and uses the magic word "gun" because she knows the cops wont turn up otherwise.

[Leonard D Neubache]

(07-21-2016 07:13 PM)Donkey George Wrote:  

Quote:

I don't know about this cops training profile, but not all cops are actually trained in first-aid.

Also it's impressive that the ambulance was there in under 30 minutes. That's around the average arrival time. There's a reason they train us on the 'platinum 10' and the 'golden hour'.

Good point. Although it's easy to say "how could you not help a seemingly innocent person you just shot?", it's quite possible that an officer not trained in emergency medical care would be forbidden from rendering aid due to liability concerns, should it cause additional damage.

This only highlights the stupidity in officer training regimens. The first person on the scene of an officer-down scenario is going to be another officer. They should all be trained and equipped for emergency first aid, and if they're shitting themselves about liability in applying it to other people then the laws need to be altered to offer them protection.

So you shot the wrong guy. Frisk him and if he hasn't got a weapon have your partner stand by while you at least apply pressure to the wound.

Sadly it seems like a lot of officers that shoot people suddenly shit themselves and think "if this guy bleeds out then there won't be anyone to give counter-testimony and all this will go away."

[BortimusPrime]

The funny part is how all the arguments in defense of the cop that it had nothing to do with racism are just arguing that the police are totally incompetent:

Shooting the black guy - No we were aiming at the unarmed mentally retarded person sitting on the ground playing with a toy car, it's just that we can't hit the broad side of a barn with a rifle.

Cuffing the wounded man and leaving on the ground to potentially bleed to death - Oh no we aren't trained to perform any kind of first aid despite being an emergency service. Stopping blood loss and elevating the wound might get us sued...uh, more sued.

I can see this being another part of the escalation of tension between the public and the police though. No sane intelligent person would want to become a cop under the current situation, so they're stuck hiring morons. It's like communist countries that bitch about all their doctors emigrating when they're only willing to pay dung-shoveler's wages.

[TonySandos]

I'd advise those wondering over why specific actions took place in this situation to read up on:

-current police funding per station
-training requirements and calendars
-screening and acceptance guidelines per station

I work with a lot of cops. I rattled them with a lot of questions and brought up current events in the past since I was given the opportunity, much like many of you would do if given the same opportunity. Cops aren't lacking in expertise or professionalism as commonly assumed; the more common occurrence is that the public doesn't understand the reasoning behind why.


For instance;
Most people think cops can't tell when you're slightly intoxicated, they just unfairly decided to hassle you.

Most cops I know have mastered spotting this specific condition without the prolonged test itself. I just use this as one example.

[FebGun]

(07-21-2016 06:43 PM)TonySandos Wrote:  

I'm not going to sit here quietly when a raging idiot such as yourself postulates without a grain of substance behind his claims.

"Soldier got trained to separate all people into two categories: "us" and "everybody else..."

Lol no we didn't.

Lol we did. Your level of intelligence just didn’t allow you to understand it. But on another hand that is exactly the point of military drill. You seem to be was a good soldier.

Quote:

Bonus teary eyed negro spiritual material:

Let me tell you like white man to white man: this is the greatest planation to work and live on and we all are niggers of the state.

Shootings like that is not about whites against blacks or vice versa. Shootings like that is state against people. State understands it and intentionally switches it on white vs black narrative.

[TonySandos]

A white-guilter AND a radicalist libertarian. Boy what a treat. Don't think I didn't pick up on that allusion to soldiering being correlated to low intelligence .

By the way, who is we? Were you employed in the military and mobilized to a combat zone? That part after the "and" is key home skillet.

[Aurini]

(07-21-2016 06:43 PM)TonySandos Wrote:  

(07-21-2016 05:58 PM)FebGun Wrote:  

I wouldn't be surprise if the cop is army veteran. Soldier got trained to separate all people into two categories: "us" and "everybody else"; and in critical situation not to take any chance. Later that habit is hardened in a war zone.
They got hired by police, got trained in this and that but the way of thinking remains the same. And in a critical situation they just follow the instinct.

He doesn't know why he shot. Nor he understands why neighborhood treats him like foreign occupying force.

I'm not going to sit here quietly when a raging idiot such as yourself postulates without a grain of substance behind his claims.

"Soldier got trained to separate all people into two categories: "us" and "everybody else..."

Lol no we didn't.

"...and in critical situation not to take any chance."

Again, lol. You must've not been in many discussions about ROE. I can almost claim knowledge that you haven't based on such ignorance.



Bonus teary eyed negro spiritual material:

"Nor he understands why neighborhood treats him like foreign occupying force."

Oh LAWD they boot on ah necks! How will we eva suhvive!

You should follow the guidelines of this group and only post on expertise instead of silly conspiracy.

Quite frankly, I'm more trusting of soldiers than police, given all of the unnecessary shootings and no-knock-warrants that I'm hearing about these days.

Soldiers are trained to follow the rules of engagement, and we understand that an N.D. during a training excercise can have us standing in front of a court martial; furthermore, we understand the need to adopt POLICE tactics while peacekeeping. The police, meanwhile, are trying to adopt some sort of badass soldier mentality, when they ought to be doing the opposite.

Also worth noting: soldiers can be ordered on suicide missions. Police cannot. Officer safety always comes first; for the soldier, it's God and Country.

[Leonard D Neubache]

(07-21-2016 07:59 PM)FebGun Wrote:  

Let me tell you like white man to white man: this is the greatest planation to work and live on and we all are niggers of the state.

Shootings like that is not about whites against blacks or vice versa. Shootings like that is state against people. State understands it and intentionally switches it on white vs black narrative.

Interesting theory. I would be keen to know why the state would shoot obedient, working field slaves.

Seems like bad business to me.

P.S. You're going to have a rough trot here if you've come to save us all from our terribly crippling delusions about the hidden relationship between the state and the individual.

[Captainstabbin]

(07-21-2016 06:38 PM)Donkey George Wrote:  

Officer's statement:

Quote:

“I took this job to save lives and help people,” said the officer in a statement released by the union. “I did what I had to do in a split second to accomplish that and hate to hear others paint me as something I’m not.”

This kind of non-statement enrages me. It's the lawyer's equivalent of "sorry, not sorry". The dude is actually pissed at people for having the nerve to question him.

"...hate to hear others paint me as something I’m not." - This is an early attempt at establishing a straw man. He's trying to play up the "you all think I'm racist" angle - which he can probably defeat.

But he's not even addressing the "I'm an utterly incompetent moron who has no situational awareness and didn't properly assess the situation" angle.

[FebGun]

Karl, please …
I gave up on saving people about 2 years ago.

[General Stalin]

This is some of the worst press the police could have right now. "Accidentally" shooting and un-armed black social worker laying on the ground with his hands in the air clearly cooperating and showing he has no weapon and is not making any movements. Even worse - claming that he was instead aiming for a mentally challenged many sitting on the ground playing with a toy car...

The fuck man. Dude's unfit to wear a badge or carry a gun as far as I'm concerned. Best case scenario it's complete and utter negligence and incompetence.

[kaotic]

(07-21-2016 08:08 PM)Aurini Wrote:  

Quite frankly, I'm more trusting of soldiers than police, given all of the unnecessary shootings and no-knock-warrants that I'm hearing about these days.

Soldiers are trained to follow the rules of engagement, and we understand that an N.D. during a training excercise can have us standing in front of a court martial; furthermore, we understand the need to adopt POLICE tactics while peacekeeping. The police, meanwhile, are trying to adopt some sort of badass soldier mentality, when they ought to be doing the opposite.

Also worth noting: soldiers can be ordered on suicide missions. Police cannot. Officer safety always comes first; for the soldier, it's God and Country.

Aurini nails it, however, I don't want soldiers policing our streets. The training these cops have need to be overhauled, what's interesting is they get trained by former military, same with swat.

(07-21-2016 10:57 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

This is some of the worst press the police could have right now. "Accidentally" shooting and un-armed black social worker laying on the ground with his hands in the air clearly cooperating and showing he has no weapon and is not making any movements. Even worse - claming that he was instead aiming for a mentally challenged many sitting on the ground playing with a toy car...

The fuck man. Dude's unfit to wear a badge or carry a gun as far as I'm concerned. Best case scenario it's complete and utter negligence and incompetence.

Stalin's right as well, this is really really bad timing, the SJW's are literally licking their lips and are going to fully exploit this.

This was negligence, apparently the officer who fired was aiming for the Autistic dude, not even the therapist.

[GlobalMan]

(07-21-2016 06:28 PM)Suits Wrote:  

(07-21-2016 06:20 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

Love that guy's jacket-shirt-pants combination.

Suits that reminds me, I want to send you some money so you can buy shirts with collars that are more at least a little more rigid than the material of a Tommy Bahama shirt.

[Suits]

(07-22-2016 12:29 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

(07-21-2016 06:28 PM)Suits Wrote:  

(07-21-2016 06:20 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

Love that guy's jacket-shirt-pants combination.

Suits that reminds me, I want to send you some money so you can buy shirts with collars that are more at least a little more rigid than the material of a Tommy Bahama shirt.

I don't buy shirts on the Mainland. Only in Hong Kong. Mainland is fine for suits, but for shirts you gotta go with tailors who actually know their stuff and don't use garbage material.

[JacksonRev]

Am I the only person that doesn't care about this?

Police have been getting shot almost every day since Dallas, so they're on edge. This police officer responded to a report of a suspicious suspect with a gun, and the suspect did not respond to police instructions.

After a whole bunch of officers being shot, the officer was twitchy.

These police officers make shitty pay, have shitty training, and little community support. And then you have all of these people bitching about how cops need to peform better. You get what your community supports and pays for. Change your community to change your police.

And lol at the lolbertarians saying we need more government oversight for police officers that they should not have to pay for because of "taxes."

[Repo]

Jackson the guy who got shot wasnt even the suspect.

[Parzival]

How is the training of cops in the US? I did read its very different. Some just do a few week course and then send on the streets and other have longer training. For example in Germany it require 3 years till you become a full cop. They shoot when its required but the critical cases are very low. Also I wonder about the mentality they teach the cops. Some say the cops in the US are trained very military style show force, not deescalation. I know there are hardcore crime spots in the US where you can't be the nice cop but how did some departments manage to reduce the incidents and others not?
Not to mention that the reasons for crimes are not the issue cops have to solve. They are not parents nor social workers.

[1026]

Therapist lives matter too.

[TravelerKai]

(07-22-2016 08:24 AM)Parzival Wrote:  

How is the training of cops in the US? I did read its very different. Some just do a few week course and then send on the streets and other have longer training. For example in Germany it require 3 years till you become a full cop. They shoot when its required but the critical cases are very low. Also I wonder about the mentality they teach the cops. Some say the cops in the US are trained very military style show force, not deescalation. I know there are hardcore crime spots in the US where you can't be the nice cop but how did some departments manage to reduce the incidents and others not?
Not to mention that the reasons for crimes are not the issue cops have to solve. They are not parents nor social workers.

That's the issue. There cannot be any consistency.

Each state has their own training. Each county, inside each state, may have their own training and requirements. We have State Police, County Sheriffs, and Precinct Constables. They all have different jurisdictions as well. Texas, like some others have an equivalent of Texas Ranger Divisions as well as Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission Police (TABC). In some states theirs chase Moonshine makers in the woods/forests/mountains (Carolinas, etc).

I do not think the constitution, in it's current form, can make them apply uniform methods across the board (States are required to regulate). That won't stop a crazy Obama administration from trying it though, if this kind of shit keeps happening.

Officers can get 2 year degrees in Criminal Justice or similar degrees. I don't know very much about Police Academies, so maybe TonySandos or others can speak on that.

[Herr Lucifer]

(07-21-2016 05:47 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  

Mailmen are suspicious.

They really are suspicious.