[XPQ22]

(08-05-2016 08:07 AM)The Black Knight Wrote:  

1. Culturally, New England women/people are not generally friendly to random strangers. I think many also harbor anti-white sentiments. Throw in some libtard politics, fucked up ratios, shitty weather, and some militant feminism and that makes for a tough cold approach environment.

Yep. It certainly doesn't help that many game avenues essentially shut down five months out of the year.

Boston is one of the few places in the world I've actually seen guys get popped on the street by angry, aggressive women.

There's also the Puritan history to take into account; this is a place where people pay $20,000 a year for an open air parking spot in the South End and then park a 2007 Volvo in it. The appearance of modesty is considered a virtue, and open ostentatiousness is frowned upon. It's certainly as wealthy in many areas as NYC or LA, but it's not as easily noticeable. I think that goes for game as well - high energy "approach styles" that might go over well in Miami are going to get you blown out here. I was mentioning this in another thread with WIA...girls are all about how they're regarded and their social circle...they have appearances to keep up.

The girls certainly like sex as much as girls anywhere else, but I think you have to be more sensitive to their need for plausible deniability, which is part of the reason I believe online is so popular here. If I ever write a New England game datasheet I think the primary piece of advice will be that "you've got to keep it down low."

[The Right Frame]

I can report that online game where I am is very challenging ( west San Fernando valley los angeles ) . Quality is very low--about 70%-80% of dates will be at most 6/10 . 7s are the highest possible.

Since I live in a bad area for online dating I have learned to dramatically lower the time and investment I make on dating websites. Every week mass message 20+ acceptable girls with a short message about how we have so much in common and are local. 2 messages maximum to get number otherwise delete them. Time from number to date never more than 72 hrs. If we can't meet within 72 hrs I stop trying and delete them.

For dates this is what I do.

1. She has to live within 10 miles of where I live. Proximity matters especially in Los Angeles where traffic is terrible.
2. She has to agree to meet at the same bar I always choose (4 mins from my house).
3. Her first drink is not necessarily on me. If things go well yes of course I will pay along with the second round.
4 Cut your losses quickly. I usually end up leaving after the 1 st round of drinks. Bad vibe, she is not into me so I get out .
5.Sharing 1-2 bar snacks is the absolute max and things need to be going extremely well for this to occur. Kino, laughing, good vibe etc.

In conclusion, I spend very little time or money on dates with online girls because of the bad ROI in my area. If I keep up this process I get the very rare bang with an unremarkable girl. Really don't see much changing either. This applies to pof, okcupid, tinder.

[XPQ22]

(08-07-2016 03:39 AM)The Right Frame Wrote:  

I can report that online game where I am is very challenging ( west San Fernando valley los angeles ) . Quality is very low--about 70%-80% of dates will be at most 6/10 . 7s are the highest possible.

Since I live in a bad area for online dating I have learned to dramatically lower the time and investment I make on dating websites. Every week mass message 20+ acceptable girls with a short message about how we have so much in common and are local. 2 messages maximum to get number otherwise delete them. Time from number to date never more than 72 hrs. If we can't meet within 72 hrs I stop trying and delete them.

For dates this is what I do.

1. She has to live within 10 miles of where I live. Proximity matters especially in Los Angeles where traffic is terrible.
2. She has to agree to meet at the same bar I always choose (4 mins from my house).
3. Her first drink is not necessarily on me. If things go well yes of course I will pay along with the second round.
4 Cut your losses quickly. I usually end up leaving after the 1 st round of drinks. Bad vibe, she is not into me so I get out .
5.Sharing 1-2 bar snacks is the absolute max and things need to be going extremely well for this to occur. Kino, laughing, good vibe etc.

In conclusion, I spend very little time or money on dates with online girls because of the bad ROI in my area. If I keep up this process I get the very rare bang with an unremarkable girl. Really don't see much changing either. This applies to pof, okcupid, tinder.

Good first post, man. Your experience jives with mine over the past year or so...the "standard issue 6" is what you'll usually find with online dating.

I'd suggest you give the technique I use a try - I've had good success with it. Don't go for the # immediately, but let the convo go for more like 10 "get to know you" type messages. Then pitch the date right on the site. You only exchange phone numbers for logistics once she's at the least tentatively agreed. This keeps my phone from getting clogged up with the digits of flakey girls...if they ghost or hit me with an excuse when I pitch the date on the site they would've done so later on had they just given me a # so nothing lost.

Logistics is important. Only once have I ever gotten the bang on a second date with a girl who I met up with where I didn't have logistics in place. If you're in a large metro area like LA or Boston or NYC and a girl says "Well let's meet halfway" fucking forget it...dates where you meet up on "neutral ground" almost always end up with the "hug close" and you never hearing from her again. I've taken that gamble quite a few times and I've always lost. Don't bother.

If a girl seems interested but says something like "I dunno I'm a little scared of this online dating thing, I've been catfished before let's talk a bit more via text" forget her, even if you manage to get her out you won't get laid.

If a girl says some variation on "I'm really busy this week but maybe next week?" forget her. There's only one way to say yes. Everything that sounds like a "maybe" means "no."

I almost never do bar dates with online girls anymore. I can count on two fingers of one hand how many lays I got from OKCupid bar dates...fuck that. I do late afternoon coffee dates, ice cream dates, Museum of Science dates, art museum dates, go to the beach dates, anything but a bar.

My best successes have come from thinking outside the box.

[Balkan]

(08-07-2016 03:39 AM)The Right Frame Wrote:  

I can report that online game where I am is very challenging ( west San Fernando valley los angeles ) . Quality is very low--about 70%-80% of dates will be at most 6/10 . 7s are the highest possible.

Since I live in a bad area for online dating I have learned to dramatically lower the time and investment I make on dating websites. Every week mass message 20+ acceptable girls with a short message about how we have so much in common and are local. 2 messages maximum to get number otherwise delete them. Time from number to date never more than 72 hrs. If we can't meet within 72 hrs I stop trying and delete them.

For dates this is what I do.

1. She has to live within 10 miles of where I live. Proximity matters especially in Los Angeles where traffic is terrible.
2. She has to agree to meet at the same bar I always choose (4 mins from my house).
3. Her first drink is not necessarily on me. If things go well yes of course I will pay along with the second round.
4 Cut your losses quickly. I usually end up leaving after the 1 st round of drinks. Bad vibe, she is not into me so I get out .
5.Sharing 1-2 bar snacks is the absolute max and things need to be going extremely well for this to occur. Kino, laughing, good vibe etc.

In conclusion, I spend very little time or money on dates with online girls because of the bad ROI in my area. If I keep up this process I get the very rare bang with an unremarkable girl. Really don't see much changing either. This applies to pof, okcupid, tinder.

I live in the same area. We're probably messaging the same girls.

Those are good principles to stick to but the majority of my online lays have broken one of those 5 points. You eventually get a radar for the girls that are going to be time wasters/flakes, perhaps you already have this and you're just sick of the process, but you're leaving pussy on the table if you're being that strict.

1. Last girl I dated lived in San Dimas, current girl I'm dating lives in Sun Valley. It can get annoying with traffic but we've always made it work. I'd say under 30min drive is a cut off but if the girl is willing to drive to you then she could live far away. Most either won't have a car or won't put in the effort for any considerable drive. Closer the better but at least 33% of the girls I date live 10+ miles away.

2.This makes sense. Those midpoint dates are logistical disasters. Date doesn't have to be a bar but has to be great logistics for you. I often do mini-golf/art galleries but that fits my personality.

3. I always cover drinks unless it's a absolute shit date or she's obviously ordering super expensive stuff. You invited her, I don't see why you need to go Dutch. Further down the line you can even out to more 60/40. This posts covers this.

4. What age range are you dating? None of my last 10 dates have lasted under 2 hours. This seems strange. Every once in a while of course your date will be a dud, but "usually". Sounds like you're not screening enough.

5. If you want to get food, do it. If you don't, don't. Most girls won't be hungry because of first date jitters and awkwardness of eating around someone you don't know well. If a cute girl that's pleasant company wants a few appetizers, you're not going to bail.

That 2 message rule is pretty silly. You're really rejecting yourself there. Very rarely will an online girl be so enamored with you that she'll drop the digits in 2 messages. The 72 hour window is ideal, but most girls can't make this work. They like to pretend they have schedules and being available in <3 days can look needy on the girls part. I'd at least give it 1 week, after that the momentum falls off significantly. If it seemed like a good lead and you just couldn't fit a meet in your schedules then put her on the backburner. This just happened to me. Got a number 6 weeks ago, she went on a vacation to Alabama. I send her trollsy gifs and pinged 1x/week with low expectations. She texted me when she got back and we went out.

The majority of my dates are with 7's. I can send you pictures if you're skeptical. But I'm a decent looking guy and quite picky (videochat a lot of girls pre-date to filter out <6's). I admit I go through a lot of numbers to get dates. Sometimes it takes 5+ numbers to get one out. The glass ceiling for guys with their shit together online appears to be 7's. The stars will very rarely align and you'll get an 8. This is consistent as even way back when slubu lived in LA, he was saying OKC is pussy delivery for 5's and 6's. Any guy in LA claiming he's consistently banging 8+'s online is full of shit or highly leveraging something (looks/money).

Bottom line is online dating in LA is pretty bad and it's gotten worse, but I think you can do better than what you're currently doing. I'd stay to tinder/coffee meets bagel/bumble/hinge/happn over okc and pof. If you have any questions feel free.


XPQ: I still prefer getting numbers then setting logistics for date. This post explains why. I do admit it's quite annoying to have tons of random numbers plugging up your phone.

[Bacchus]

Threads like this are important, just to remind everyone here that there are trends in the sexual marketplace beyond your control.

Every post in this thread confirms that the sexual marketplace of 2016 does not forgive even a moment of weakness. She has too many options for you to bring last year's game.

The only solutions available are either to grind harder or accept lesser results. Lesser meaning a combination of less frequent and less pretty. That's unacceptable to me, so I double down.

But doubling my effort doesn't mean sending out 2x as many copypastas. It means evolving your system. So the copypastas involve a more topical qualification. It means tweaking your responses instead of using the same canned answers. And the texting establishes more rapport before pushing for the date. And the dates are more adventurous, not just drinks at the same bar that has logistics optimized for you. It means a building a better rollercoaster for her.

And after you've improved your system and gotten the bang, the boulder is waiting for you at the bottom of the hill.

A quote from the 1963 movie "The Leopard" sums it up:

"If we want things to stay as they are, things will have to change. "

[The Right Frame]

Thank you Xpq , Balkan, and Bacchus for your helpful responses.

I really like the idea of predate video chat . Never even thought of doing it before. Seems like a great screening tool which I will try out. Will also try mixing up venues.

The 2 message idea is to avoid time wasting girls and force some positive movement from the girl. I thought the idea was to always bounce them off these sites as fast as possible and switch to text game. Send a few playful texts + animal pictures and set up logistics.

The 72 hr idea really reduces flaking so I like it. Yes they try to say how busy they are blah blah. But since the longer you wait the higher the flake rate I feel it is better to try to arrange a meeting asap. If she is interested she should be able to make some time.

My screening needs work . A lot of girls who look and act good online turn out to be duds in real life. Bad personality, awkward social skills, don't look as good as in pics, or they simply are not feeling me even with a little alcohol in their systems. That is why I try to cut losses quickly. Predate video chat would really help here.

Question about venues and online dating: why is bar+alcohol not optimal for a first date?

[XPQ22]

(08-08-2016 02:13 AM)The Right Frame Wrote:  

Thank you Xpq , Balkan, and Bacchus for your helpful responses.

I really like the idea of predate video chat . Never even thought of doing it before. Seems like a great screening tool which I will try out. Will also try mixing up venues.

I think this might be a good idea. One thing I've heard secondhand from some girls that it worked out good with from online is that women seem to have a more difficult time discerning what a guy is going to be like "IRL" than the reverse.

Have I ever been seriously surprised that a woman's personality/looks were shockingly different in person than what I thought they were going to be? Nope, I can't say it's ever happened. I meet up with her on the date, and there's pretty much the girl in the picture (though perhaps a few pounds heavier ) and she pretty much acts like, well, a woman, more or less. Either a woman who likes me, or a woman who doesn't.

Conversely, I've had several women tell me they couldn't really read what I was going to be like in real life. "I thought you were going to be like, some goofy skater bro. But then you weren't like that at all!" I think there's simply more variation in men's personalities, and that's one of them main things a particular girl is going to be attracted to.

Quote:

The 2 message idea is to avoid time wasting girls and force some positive movement from the girl. I thought the idea was to always bounce them off these sites as fast as possible and switch to text game. Send a few playful texts + animal pictures and set up logistics.

That's pretty much just coasting on your pics to get the number close. I'm sure it works for many guys better looking than I, but if one is only "average" as I'd say I am, I find I need to take a little more time to demonstrate that at the very least I'm not a square with an inability to talk about anything. I don't BS with them forever, but I take more than 2.

Quote:

The 72 hr idea really reduces flaking so I like it. Yes they try to say how busy they are blah blah. But since the longer you wait the higher the flake rate I feel it is better to try to arrange a meeting asap. If she is interested she should be able to make some time.

I do agree with you here. Most of my lays have come from girls who were willing to meet up relatively rapidly, within a couple days or so. Nothing good has ever come of girls who want to bump me down the line into next week.

Quote:

My screening needs work . A lot of girls who look and act good online turn out to be duds in real life. Bad personality, awkward social skills, don't look as good as in pics, or they simply are not feeling me even with a little alcohol in their systems. That is why I try to cut losses quickly. Predate video chat would really help here.

Here's a simple technique I use to eliminate 50%+ of girls on the site: look through her profile pictures. Is she smiling in her main photo, and smiling in most of her alternates? Not a fake smile like she's posing for a middle school class picture, but one where she looks genuinely happy.

A girl who is mean mugging in her profile, or has a profile that comes off as entitled or bitchy is not going to be any more pleasant on the date, I can pretty much guarantee it. Though I recognize that someone somewhere has apparently told young women those "thousand cock" dead-eyed stare selfies make them look hot, or something. I don't really see the appeal.

Quote:

Question about venues and online dating: why is bar+alcohol not optimal for a first date?

I think basically because it's what everyone else does, so it puts you in the same box that every other corny guy she's met with before you was in. That being said, I still do them from time to time...creative date ideas that have both good logistics and that a girl will agree to for a first date can sometimes be hard. They wont all agree to drinking in an art museum or going to the beach at night for a first meeting.

[Kid Twist]

You do a good job in getting the number, switch to phone/text, how quickly do you strategize you need to have a meetup, within a week? Or do you wait a week to message after your first phone text to her?

[Vincent Chase]

(08-08-2016 08:57 AM)Kid Twist Wrote:  

You do a good job in getting the number, switch to phone/text, how quickly do you strategize you need to have a meetup, within a week? Or do you wait a week to message after your first phone text to her?

Generally best to meetup as soon as possible once you have her number. They have the concentration span of ants. I consider the half life of a new phone number to be about 2-3 days in a big city, the longer it goes the shorter your chances are - usually within a week or so they forget who you even are. One girl told me 2 weeks after I had her number that she doesn't remember me, and that was pretty much that. More recently I've gotten bangs of getting a girl from online to real life on the same day. Of course the paradox of it all is to get her out as soon as possible without looking to appear needy.

[XPQ22]

^ I'd say the "half life" of a lead in Boston is about a week at the outside. It's a much smaller city than London, say, so perhaps attention spans are slightly longer. I've made dates on Sunday or Monday for Friday and had the girl come through...but any longer than that and I'd feel there was little hope.

I remember one girl early in the summer who flaked on a date, but then apologized profusely and started texting me detailed plans for some event she wanted to go to with me as a makeup. It was three weeks away. I remember thinking "Why are you going to all this effort to make plans for something that's never going to happen?"

Just for fun I held onto her digits and waited, then texted her the day before the event. She replied "Um...I have no idea who you are, dude." I laughed and deleted her number.

[Cattle Rustler]

Man, it seems like the new trend in PUA/Manosphere marketing is "tinder/online is for losers and betas". This is hilarious because not too long ago same people were raving about how to create the best profile and pictures.

Game is game, online doesn't make it any easier because you still have to close the deal in person and the 'tards that can't close in person won't be able to close online meet up. Copy/Paste messages still work, according to the folks who are using my nearly decade old copy/paste messages. Bacchus is right, you always have to improve your material. It's like being a sniper but shotgunning, just because you're pursuing the law of big numbers doesn't mean you write crappy messages.

People need to blame not getting conversions on themselves. Not on "online", hypergamy, smartphones, self racial hate (white chicks like white guys, fact); that's just hamstering.

Edit: The best time for men to get girls is now, the best second best was yesterday.

[XPQ22]

(08-08-2016 03:25 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

Game is game, online doesn't make it any easier because you still have to close the deal in person and the 'tards that can't close in person won't be able to close online meet up. Copy/Paste messages still work, according to the folks who are using my nearly decade old copy/paste messages. Bacchus is right, you always have to improve your material. It's like being a sniper but shotgunning, just because you're pursuing the law of big numbers doesn't mean you write crappy messages.

Yep. Getting a girl in front of you is actually the most straightforward part of the process. The hard stuff is trying to screen for the right girls, with the right logistics, at the right time, with the right words and right moves to get her in bed. i.e. game.

Any chode can get a girl from online to sit next to him at a bar; the ones who are actually doing meets are often meeting up with everyone who strikes a passing fancy. But there's a million ways you can screw it up, even if the girl likes you in some abstract way. I sure have...

[Kid Twist]

That's the key, admitting you've made a mistake and not doing it again. Like messaging too frequently.

As Vincent said, space it out but with a goal of meet up soon, the paradox is a difficult one. I like to explain it all as hormonal or mood (hormonal), if you have a chance and she is contemplating meeting, make sure it happens.

The screening part of XPQ will also make the fruits of it easier. But none of it is easy, it's just selection through realizing what's best via trial and error, then waiting for the right scenario to click.

[NewDayNewFace]

(07-28-2016 12:22 PM)NewDayNewFace Wrote:  

(07-27-2016 03:30 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

(07-27-2016 08:52 AM)NewDayNewFace Wrote:  

(07-25-2016 01:51 PM)zoom Wrote:  

(07-23-2016 02:20 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

All the straight clubs I remember from ~15 years ago in Providence, Rhode Island are gone now. Pretty much every nightclub or bar has to be at the very least gay friendly if not outright gay to survive. I don't think it's an overstatement to say that social media has made Providence the gayest little city in the nation.

Is Providence really that bad? I was thinking of moving there. How would you compare it to Boston as far as gaming options and overall quality of life?

I went to a club in Providence 2 months ago. It was ghetto but was packed. It had an upstairs and a downstairs. It was crawling with women. A lot of the puerto ricans there were very cute too. BTW is was a puerto rican/black club.

Was it Colosseum? There's one other place in the same area that I recall that fits that description, but I'm blanking on the name. It's in a brick building near J&W.

I've considered checking out those places, but when out solo I feel really uncomfortable hitting up clubs that have huge signs by the door regarding their "ZERO TOLERANCE POLICY", dress codes designed to curb gang activity (no hats), and bouncers with metal detectors. Shit doesn't give me a good vibe.

Many years ago there was a trashy little club called Hell in the theater district where as a young man I could pull emo/goth chicks with little difficulty. It's a gay club now, seems most of the clubs in that area are. And it was before social media, circa 2003, so everything was easier in general.

Providence seems to have its fair share of unpleasant cunts as well; I remember a couple times where I'd simply smile at a couple women walking on the street or sitting in their car, not even approaching, and get bitched out for it:

"Ugh, not YOU." - two white chicks sitting in their Honda Civic

"Yeah forget you dude..." - two Hispanic girls walking down the street

It's still New England, after all.

No it wasn't that. I forgot the name right now. All I know is Saturday night it was packed with women. I got like 10 numbers that night.

Are you in Providence now? If so PM me. I might make a trip there this weekend. Anything is better then Hartford.

Name of the club is called Ultra. I'm actually working in Providence for a month starting this weekend so I'll make sure to check it out again next weekend.

[MrMagoo]

(07-22-2016 01:21 PM)eradicator Wrote:  

As for what to do instead with your online gaming? Try meetup.com

I don't understand why I keep seeing people say this. There is almost *nothing* on meetup.com for people under 40. I've scoped out Jacksonville, Tampa, Tallahassee, Nashville, Atlanta, Charlotte, and even Seattle and Denver. Zilch for people under 30. I've spent several hours digging through that site for any actual meetups with the non-elderly or middle aged, and have not seen it.

There are TONS of groups for 20-30, sure. But none of them have had any actual meetups in years, if they ever had any in the first place. The only time I've seen actual events are for New Year's, and St Patties. Not even Cinco has meetups. Forget about a random Saturday.

[TornadoByProxy]

(10-16-2016 11:59 PM)MrMagoo Wrote:  

(07-22-2016 01:21 PM)eradicator Wrote:  

As for what to do instead with your online gaming? Try meetup.com

I don't understand why I keep seeing people say this. There is almost *nothing* on meetup.com for people under 40. I've scoped out Jacksonville, Tampa, Tallahassee, Nashville, Atlanta, Charlotte, and even Seattle and Denver. Zilch for people under 30. I've spent several hours digging through that site for any actual meetups with the non-elderly or middle aged, and have not seen it.

There are TONS of groups for 20-30, sure. But none of them have had any actual meetups in years, if they ever had any in the first place. The only time I've seen actual events are for New Year's, and St Patties. Not even Cinco has meetups. Forget about a random Saturday.

Then you should create one. It's not much of an investment to start a coed flag football meetup. It may take a while to get going but you seem to have identified a need.

[serpico]

I'm in EE and all the dating sites here seem to be infected with hordes of sex tourists, goldiggers, and faked profiles... Then some of the sites have reputations for still charging your CC after you cancel... Basically it's a scammers paradise...