[Samseau]

I sure as fuck wouldn't trust Turkey with Nukes if they are going full Islam.

[Quintus Curtius]

^^^

From what I'm hearing from a guy in Turkey I know, it's starting to look like a slow-motion national schism is underway. On the one side is the Islamist faction, headed by Erdogan. On the other side is the traditionalist, secular, military-type faction. This balance always existed, and the secular forces always had the upper hand. Now it's starting to like Erdogan is making an all-out play to take over.

He wants to do what Mohammed Morsi (the Muslim Brotherhood former president of Egypt) tried to do in Egypt, right before he was deposed in a military coup a few years ago.

Things could get very ugly in Turkey. Nobody knows how far Erdogan is going to go. His track record does not suggest a man with a calm, calculating, measured disposition. He tends to be irascible, erratic, and unstable.

[Nineteen84]

   

Quote:

The swift rounding up of judges and others after a failed coup in Turkey indicated the government had prepared a list beforehand, the EU commissioner dealing with Turkey's membership bid, Johannes Hahn, said on Monday.

Following a failed coup attempt on Saturday, Turkish authorities on Sunday rounded up nearly 3,000 suspected military plotters, ranging from top commanders to foot soldiers, and the same number of judges and prosecutors.

"It looks at least as if something has been prepared. The lists are available, which indicates it was prepared and to be used at a certain stage," Hahn said.

"I'm very concerned. It is exactly what we feared."

[TonySandos]

Supposedly twitter will be handing over IP and other identifying info from pro-coup twitter accounts to the Turkish authorities. I feel ill for the religious and ethnic cleansing that'll be taking place soon

[chakalaka]

Half staged. Half real. Probably a lot of traitors in the pro-coup movement. Who were since the beginning. Also some soldiers who didn´t knew what the fuck was going on.

[MongolianAbroad]

(07-18-2016 01:01 PM)TonySandos Wrote:  

Supposedly twitter will be handing over IP and other identifying info from pro-coup twitter accounts to the Turkish authorities. I feel ill for the religious and ethnic cleansing that'll be taking place soon

The gravity of the situation makes one appreciate how good we have it in most of America, as far as peace and stability is concerned.

I wish those folks over there the best.

[Traktor]

(07-18-2016 01:15 PM)chakalaka Wrote:  

Half staged. Half real. Probably a lot of traitors in the pro-coup movement. Who were since the beginning. Also some soldiers who didn´t knew what the fuck was going on.

Many here have been wondering as to why the coup looked so disorganised and half arsed. My theory on it is that the coup was indeed planned but the coup plotters were forced to act prematurely, hence the shambles. This leads me to ask a number of questions

1. Who planned the coup?
The coup was the last throw of the dice by the remaining Kemalists in the armed forces who were deeply worried at the growing and creeping Islamisation of Turkish society. They were disgusted at the behaviour of Erdogan, especially given his direct involvement in the affairs of other countries, something that Mustapha Kemal Atatturk was at pains to avoid. The overt/covert support of Erdogan of Islamists like ISIS was the last straw for the upper echelons of the Turkish military and so they began to set the plan in motion.

2. Why did the coup fail?
The hallmarks of the spectacular failure of the coup points not to bad planning but the coup plotters being forced their hand prematurely. My theory is that some of the Generals got wind of a possible impending purge or a mole within their ranks so had to rush things at the last minute. If anything has shown us, if you fail to prepare, then you better prepare to fail. The coup plotters had expected the people to come out but they didn't. Why? Simple. The Kemalists have for decades been waging war against the urban Left, the Christian minorities(or what's left of them) and the Kurds. There was no way these forces, whom you would expect to be natural allies to the Kemalist secularists would come out onto the streets. They alienated them in the form of state sponsored assassinations (Hrant Dink), oppression and attempted genocide a la Kurds.

3) What will happen next?
The coup plot was manna from Heaven for Erdogan. This will give him the perfect excuse to cleanse the state institutions (police/army/civil service) of any remaining Kemalists. This will take him about 9-12 months. Once he has done that, he will move onto the urban Left (Gezi movement, independent journalists, local community activists, feminists, trade unions, communists, socialists, liberals etc.) who will be rounded up, their media outlets shut and others forced to leave the country. In fact they have already begun this by the assassination today of the Deputy Mayor of Istanbul who hailed from the Opposition CHP Party http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...-head.html
This is certainly a harbinger of the wider things to come. The Christians (Assyrians, Armenians) have already been neutralised with the recent State confiscation of their churches and monasteries. So that leaves us with the Kurds whom we can all guess what will happen to them.

Tayyip Erdogan is as unstable as one can get. He will now have free reign to impose his form of meathead Islamist Neo-Ottomanism. His electorate, the uneducated, ignorant Anatolian rednecks and Islamists will lap this up. The AKP are on a high and the electorate are in a stupor. In foreign policy, expect this to usher in an aggressive neo-colonial military adventurism in the Middle East. Erdogan focus will shift to the Kurds within and without. I suspect he still has Assad and Iran in the crosshairs as a Baathist Arab socialist Syria under Assad is the major obstacle to his dreams of further geopolitical expansion. If Hillary Clinton is elected, one can expect to see now strained relations with the US/NATO patched up, Erdogan's abuses swept under the carpet and Ankara given the green light to continue as before.

I foresee dark days for Turkey and the Levant.

[Traktor]

(07-18-2016 11:39 AM)Nineteen84 Wrote:  

Quote:

The swift rounding up of judges and others after a failed coup in Turkey indicated the government had prepared a list beforehand, the EU commissioner dealing with Turkey's membership bid, Johannes Hahn, said on Monday.

Following a failed coup attempt on Saturday, Turkish authorities on Sunday rounded up nearly 3,000 suspected military plotters, ranging from top commanders to foot soldiers, and the same number of judges and prosecutors.

"It looks at least as if something has been prepared. The lists are available, which indicates it was prepared and to be used at a certain stage," Hahn said.

"I'm very concerned. It is exactly what we feared."

Hence my theory of the coup plotters being forced to rush things to the last minute.

[Dark Knowledge]

(07-18-2016 02:28 PM)Traktor Wrote:  

(07-18-2016 11:39 AM)Nineteen84 Wrote:  

Quote:

The swift rounding up of judges and others after a failed coup in Turkey indicated the government had prepared a list beforehand, the EU commissioner dealing with Turkey's membership bid, Johannes Hahn, said on Monday.

Following a failed coup attempt on Saturday, Turkish authorities on Sunday rounded up nearly 3,000 suspected military plotters, ranging from top commanders to foot soldiers, and the same number of judges and prosecutors.

"It looks at least as if something has been prepared. The lists are available, which indicates it was prepared and to be used at a certain stage," Hahn said.

"I'm very concerned. It is exactly what we feared."

Hence my theory of the coup plotters being forced to rush things to the last minute.

Where do you see Russia fitting in all this?

[rotekz]

^^^^^^Just observers. I doubt they have a hand in it.

[Kid Twist]

Putin will be Erdogan's foil.

I know because it has been revealed to many, and just makes common sense.

As Traktor said, dark days will be ahead, his time is not up yet.

God has hardened Erdogan [Pharaoh's] heart. Why?

Tayyip desires it. And he's gonna get it.

[911]

I think there are some similarities between Putin and Erdogan. Strong conservative leaders, and Erdogan seems to have a small rift with NATO, and a huge one with the Gulenists, who are close to the neocons and have a large presence in central Asia.

Alleged coup backer Islamic Cleric Fethullah Gulen linked to the Clintons:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/turkey-fail...en/5536349

Quote:

Last year The Daily Caller reported that numerous Gulen followers have donated to Clinton’s various political campaigns and to her family charity. One Gulen movement leader, Recep Ozkan, donated between $500,000 and $1 million to the Clinton Foundation.

Shoebat compares Gulen to Soros:

Quote:

In many ways, Gulen is the Islamic version of Soros. Both men are extremely wealthy, use that money to surreptitiously spread their ideologies, and like to operate behind the scenes as much as possible. Though Wikileaks revealed that the Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan is not as loyal to the Gulenist movement as say, Turkish President, Abdullah Gul, both men belong to the same Gulenist-inspired AKP.

http://shoebat.com/2012/05/19/the-60-min...lah-gulen/


I think the rift between the Gulen movement and Erdogan is the reason for the coup. Gulen's handlers in the US are neocons close to Cheney, and his followers are also close to Clinton, which is not all that surprising, as she is the new face of the neocons.

[Dark Knowledge]

(07-18-2016 02:58 PM)rotekz Wrote:  

^^^^^^Just observers. I doubt they have a hand in it.

I'm more curious about what the Russians do post-coup attempt. Does Putin try to exploit the rift between Turkey and NATO?

[rotekz]

[Nineteen84]

Wikileaks are about to publish this:
   

[Samseau]

(07-18-2016 03:12 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  

Putin will be Erdogan's foil.

I know because it has been revealed to many, and just makes common sense.

As Traktor said, dark days will be ahead, his time is not up yet.

God has hardened Erdogan [Pharaoh's] heart. Why?

Tayyip desires it. And he's gonna get it.

It's okay fellas. God is on our side.

[Nineteen84]

   
   

[Quintus Curtius]

@Traktor:

Great analysis, mate. Good work. That has the ring of truth to it.

The only thing that will stop him now is the defeat of his proxies in Syria. I've been following this situation, and even though progress of the Syrian Arab Army is not as fast as I would hope, it has been steady. He is losing. And his prestige will suffer for it. Russia will punish him if he attempts direct intervention (I think).

The Europeans do not respect him either.

The future for him looks bleak, as it does for many Turks. He's going to become another marginalized Ghadaffi, a big-mouthed asshole with nothing to offer.

.

[John Michael Kane]

(07-18-2016 06:13 PM)Nineteen84 Wrote:  

This can't hit the public eyeballs fast enough. I'm sure everything we suspect and worse is true about this guy. A real thug for the ages.

[spokepoker]

The failure of wikileaks to release the password on that huge file they "backed up" via torrent doesn't give me any hope that they will release anything concerning Turkey's coup. As of now with them sitting on supposedly damning Clinton shit and not doing anything with it makes me think they have nothing and are just saying they have shit to stay relevant.

[chakalaka]

(07-18-2016 02:07 PM)Traktor Wrote:  

(07-18-2016 01:15 PM)chakalaka Wrote:  

Half staged. Half real. Probably a lot of traitors in the pro-coup movement. Who were since the beginning. Also some soldiers who didn´t knew what the fuck was going on.

Many here have been wondering as to why the coup looked so disorganised and half arsed. My theory on it is that the coup was indeed planned but the coup plotters were forced to act prematurely, hence the shambles. This leads me to ask a number of questions

1. Who planned the coup?
The coup was the last throw of the dice by the remaining Kemalists in the armed forces who were deeply worried at the growing and creeping Islamisation of Turkish society. They were disgusted at the behaviour of Erdogan, especially given his direct involvement in the affairs of other countries, something that Mustapha Kemal Atatturk was at pains to avoid. The overt/covert support of Erdogan of Islamists like ISIS was the last straw for the upper echelons of the Turkish military and so they began to set the plan in motion.

2. Why did the coup fail?
The hallmarks of the spectacular failure of the coup points not to bad planning but the coup plotters being forced their hand prematurely. My theory is that some of the Generals got wind of a possible impending purge or a mole within their ranks so had to rush things at the last minute. If anything has shown us, if you fail to prepare, then you better prepare to fail. The coup plotters had expected the people to come out but they didn't. Why? Simple. The Kemalists have for decades been waging war against the urban Left, the Christian minorities(or what's left of them) and the Kurds. There was no way these forces, whom you would expect to be natural allies to the Kemalist secularists would come out onto the streets. They alienated them in the form of state sponsored assassinations (Hrant Dink), oppression and attempted genocide a la Kurds.

3) What will happen next?
The coup plot was manna from Heaven for Erdogan. This will give him the perfect excuse to cleanse the state institutions (police/army/civil service) of any remaining Kemalists. This will take him about 9-12 months. Once he has done that, he will move onto the urban Left (Gezi movement, independent journalists, local community activists, feminists, trade unions, communists, socialists, liberals etc.) who will be rounded up, their media outlets shut and others forced to leave the country. In fact they have already begun this by the assassination today of the Deputy Mayor of Istanbul who hailed from the Opposition CHP Party http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...-head.html
This is certainly a harbinger of the wider things to come. The Christians (Assyrians, Armenians) have already been neutralised with the recent State confiscation of their churches and monasteries. So that leaves us with the Kurds whom we can all guess what will happen to them.

Tayyip Erdogan is as unstable as one can get. He will now have free reign to impose his form of meathead Islamist Neo-Ottomanism. His electorate, the uneducated, ignorant Anatolian rednecks and Islamists will lap this up. The AKP are on a high and the electorate are in a stupor. In foreign policy, expect this to usher in an aggressive neo-colonial military adventurism in the Middle East. Erdogan focus will shift to the Kurds within and without. I suspect he still has Assad and Iran in the crosshairs as a Baathist Arab socialist Syria under Assad is the major obstacle to his dreams of further geopolitical expansion. If Hillary Clinton is elected, one can expect to see now strained relations with the US/NATO patched up, Erdogan's abuses swept under the carpet and Ankara given the green light to continue as before.

I foresee dark days for Turkey and the Levant.

At height of Turkish coup bid, rebel jets had Erdogan's plane in their sights

At the height of the attempt to overthrow Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan, the rebel pilots of two F-16 fighter jets had Erdogan's plane in their sights. And yet he was able to fly on.

At least two F-16s harassed Erdogan's plane while it was in the air and en route to Istanbul. They locked their radars on his plane and on two other F-16s protecting him," a former military officer with knowledge of the events told Reuters.

"Why they didn't fire is a mystery," he said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey...SKCN0ZX0Q9

Do you think they missed the weapon release button?

I believe Erdogan outplayed the coup leaders. He probably bribed the militaries who could really cast some danger offering better positions.

Secondly I also believe this was planned by the US and EU.

Either as a warning or as a real attempt. In this last case it´s a massive failure. One of the reasons I believe this is a US coup was the rejection of Erdogan plane landing by Germany and the previous approach to Russia made by him. Germany is basically an US protectorate. Probably a warning though. If it was for real he would have been overthrown because his jet would have been shot down. Also the population. The military would have squash them. They probably received orders not to hurt civilians. Tank versus shoes weapons. Shoes wins. But for me not shooting down the jet is decisive. There´s no reason whatsoever to justify not killing an enemy. It´s so ridiculous it hurts.

[Nineteen84]

(07-18-2016 07:11 PM)spokepoker Wrote:  

The failure of wikileaks to release the password on that huge file they "backed up" via torrent doesn't give me any hope that they will release anything concerning Turkey's coup. As of now with them sitting on supposedly damning Clinton shit and not doing anything with it makes me think they have nothing and are just saying they have shit to stay relevant.

Possibly true. I currently see them begging for money on Twitter. Tomorrow will tell...

[Leonard D Neubache]

The F16s not taking the jet down might have a more boring explanation.

It is possible that they had no armaments on board and they were just bluffing?

It's also possible that gravity of the situation got to the pilots and they simply froze. They might have engaged on the premise that Erdogan's pilot could be intimidated to reroute to a coup-friendly landing strip and be taken into custody. Then, when Erdo's pilot called their bluff they lost their nerve or never had weapons on board in the first place.

[911]

They couldn't really shoot him down, that would have made him a martyr, him, and the crew. They either wanted to capture him, or better yet, force him to flee the country. That's why they floated the rumors that Erdogan was seeking asylum in Germany. He played his cards right, by calling his people to occupy the airports. They secured the airport for him and he was able to land there and look good.

[rotekz]

The Wikileaks servers have been under sustained attack since this Turkey announcement. Somebody is pissed.