[Graft]

After my increasingly diminishing returns online and dramatically increasing returns on Instagram, I finally pieced a few things together and realize the dating circumstances.

I'm mid-20's, Instagram came out around/after the time I had graduated and was still in it's infancy for a year or so. Tinder came out the same time. You guys probably remember Tinder at that time-less flakes, more numbers, more bangs. I'm here to explain why it is less and less so.

Call me Captain Obvious, but the reason online dating has gotten so terrible is that it self-selects for females who can't fill their cock pipeline through their social media accounts and self-selects for men who aren't valuable enough to build a following.

I know someone 5 years younger than I. All of the 8+ girls his age have an IG account with 1000+ followers. Most have a few thousand. Their followers are not all their friends, plenty of randos on there getting at them. There is simply no need for a female to create a dating profile like Tinder when she can utilize Instagram for the same thing, but more pictures, validation, and information.

Any guy can slap 5 good pictures together and create a Tinder profile. It takes hard work, most likely good looks/talent, and a "following" in order to DHV on instagram. This is why instagram works so well for DM game. Every girl has one and only a few guys have one where they can DHV and spit game on.

I've noticed that Bumble has become notably post-wall, what I like to call the "first wall" after 25. These women were not in college when IG was created and they haven't set up their IG profiles to utilize as a dating site. Most smokes under 25 direct you right to their IG profiles, yes, to attention whore, but they also want to see your full value if you slide in their DM right. A man can tell everything he needs from a woman after a few photos. A woman can hardly tell shit. She needs your lifestyle, your status, your following, the preselection, etc. THEN she will bite.

Tinder and all these swipe apps are done, now reserved for the bottom 75%. The top females will always be able to gather thousands of prospects from their Instagram account.

[leanmeansexmachine]

Top females in any country will never be on tinder. However, tinder is extremely useful when travelling. Many girls also use this when they travel. If you live in a big city, are goodlooking and have good pictures, it is still a minefield of pussy.

I use instagram only to show off my travels and keep in touch with girls i have banged. I do not really treat it as a 'game' app, even though i have met some girls from it.

[Graft]

(06-14-2016 06:34 PM)leanmeansexmachine Wrote:  

If you live in a big city, are goodlooking and have good pictures, it is still a minefield of pussy.

I have to respectfully disagree. I live in the biggest city, have gotten thousands of matches in the past, and in my recent experience Tinder has been a waste. If you look at the OKC thread, most of the latest comments are saying it's a complete waste. Tinder/Bumble are going that way.

There are tons and tons of fake profiles. There are tons of real profiles that haven't been touched in months. There are tons of real profiles that have been "deleted" but possibly Tinder/Bumble kept them up for marketing. I've seen Tinder/Bumble profiles of sloots who have been in relationships for a year. Not saying there isn't a chance they are swiping on the side, but there is also a chance these companies keep the profiles up of the girls that are swiped on a lot.

[leanmeansexmachine]

(06-14-2016 06:45 PM)Graft Wrote:  

(06-14-2016 06:34 PM)leanmeansexmachine Wrote:  

If you live in a big city, are goodlooking and have good pictures, it is still a minefield of pussy.

I have to respectfully disagree. I live in the biggest city, have gotten thousands of matches in the past, and in my recent experience Tinder has been a waste. If you look at the OKC thread, most of the latest comments are saying it's a complete waste. Tinder/Bumble are going that way.

There are tons and tons of fake profiles. There are tons of real profiles that haven't been touched in months. There are tons of real profiles that have been "deleted" but possibly Tinder/Bumble kept them up for marketing. I've seen Tinder/Bumble profiles of sloots who have been in relationships for a year. Not saying there isn't a chance they are swiping on the side, but there is also a chance these companies keep the profiles up of the girls that are swiped on a lot.

Maybe you need to move to a new city or away from America.

I was in Budapest and Krakow this past month, fucked 4 girls all 8's. Matched with hundreds of pretty girls.

Here in my home city Belgrade, there are many 9's on tinder.

[Adonis]

Funny this should come up, I just had an interesting conversation about this at work today. If you look at trends in communication you see the trend towards less and less substance as well as the acceleration of such.

letters->phone->email->text->social media->???

- Less personal interaction
- Less effort involved
- Shorter send/receive horizon
- Wider audience

You see it in the prominence of things like IG and SC whereby you don't even have to write anything to get your message across anymore you just take a picture or a video.

"What are you doing" -selfie
"Where are you guys at?" -pic of sign
"Where are you from" -collage of state specific icons
"Lets grab a drink" - communication in emojis

A picture is worth a thousand words I suppose.

[Graft]

[/quote]

Maybe you need to move to a new city or away from America.

I was in Budapest and Krakow this past month, fucked 4 girls all 8's. Matched with hundreds of pretty girls.

Here in my home city Belgrade, there are many 9's on tinder.
[/quote]

Lol fine, let me edit, *Tinder for us who are still in America

[leanmeansexmachine]

An angle you can play with instagram would be that of photographer. I have been thinking about doing something like this. Get a good camera, approach pretty girls on the street and online, tell them you are a beginning photographer and you will do a free portfolio shoot for them.

[RatInTheWoods]

Looks like tinder, IG, online dating and day gaming etc are all very location dependent.

Even the type of online dating matters.

You will need to choose your weapons carefully.

[InfraOrbital]

This is a major red pill realization that Ive come to as well about this younger generation (I'm 26). As crazy as Tinder was, instagram is replacing it! It offers girl a lot: it truly vets guys, it gives them the best plausible deniability and discreteness, and hooks them up with the best - the local players, mini celebrities, and even major ones. If you're a youbg guy and youre not social media maxxing then what are you doing !

[Graft]

(06-14-2016 08:30 PM)InfraOrbital Wrote:  

This is a major red pill realization that Ive come to as well about this younger generation (I'm 26). As crazy as Tinder was, instagram is replacing it! It offers girl a lot: it truly vets guys, it gives them the best plausible deniability and discreteness, and hooks them up with the best - the local players, mini celebrities, and even major ones. If you're a youbg guy and youre not social media maxxing then what are you doing !

Yup, it was like female society held a gun to my head and forced me to do the instagram thingy. I wasn't going to rely on cold approaches if the online app well dries up.

You nailed it. I've seen real celebrities, plus nightclub owners, fitness models, runway models, musicians etc use it for sloots. Some photographer/travel guys. It's a good idea for you guys that are always traveling.

[Chetthebaker]

This makes a lot of sense. Well played, OP.
I'm mid 30s in the biggest U.S. city. Tinder and OKC are like trying to break through a concrete wall by throwing eggs at it.

[xxMarco]

One of the biggest problems i've had with social media is pictures. I deleted my instagram years ago because I only had a few pictures. Not that I don't do cool shit but if i'm in the middle of doing cool shit the last thing I do is pull out my phone and take a selfie. If I did I would seem like every basic girl out there and that just isn't me.
Other things that I do in my day to day life are not that interesting. Gym, reading a book, learning a new language, working, are things I can't put on my instagram.

I was talking to a young girl a couple weeks ago and she asked me about my social media and she goes "really, you have nothing? How do you talk to girls?" Nothing ever came out of this girl because she had the attention span of a gold fish but if I had an instagram I probably could've kept her entertained long enough to smash.

Tinder is dead in America but I don't see how you can pull chicks from Instagram. It just seems like a validation tool. How do you spit your game, meet up, and bang?

[Graft]

(06-14-2016 09:48 PM)xxMarco Wrote:  

One of the biggest problems i've had with social media is pictures. I deleted my instagram years ago because I only had a few pictures. Not that I don't do cool shit but if i'm in the middle of doing cool shit the last thing I do is pull out my phone and take a selfie. If I did I would seem like every basic girl out there and that just isn't me.
Other things that I do in my day to day life are not that interesting. Gym, reading a book, learning a new language, working, are things I can't put on my instagram.

I was talking to a young girl a couple weeks ago and she asked me about my social media and she goes "really, you have nothing? How do you talk to girls?" Nothing ever came out of this girl because she had the attention span of a gold fish but if I had an instagram I probably could've kept her entertained long enough to smash.

Tinder is dead in America but I don't see how you can pull chicks from Instagram. It just seems like a validation tool. How do you spit your game, meet up, and bang?

I feel you, it's lame, but it's a big deal in these end times. Your discussion with the girl made it sound like her whole dating life was through social media.

I might make a datasheet after I've done it for longer, but I'm a little paranoid about getting doxxed (I've been ROK under the same name/avatar since the beginning). I live in a central location in NYC, they can come to me easily, but I'll go to them if they're hot enough, same deal as online dating. It's a validation tool yes, but most of hitting on girls is validating them. And I'll just say this: fake it 'til you make it.

[Ballr]

(06-14-2016 09:48 PM)xxMarco Wrote:  

One of the biggest problems i've had with social media is pictures. I deleted my instagram years ago because I only had a few pictures. Not that I don't do cool shit but if i'm in the middle of doing cool shit the last thing I do is pull out my phone and take a selfie. If I did I would seem like every basic girl out there and that just isn't me.
Other things that I do in my day to day life are not that interesting. Gym, reading a book, learning a new language, working, are things I can't put on my instagram.

I was talking to a young girl a couple weeks ago and she asked me about my social media and she goes "really, you have nothing? How do you talk to girls?" Nothing ever came out of this girl because she had the attention span of a gold fish but if I had an instagram I probably could've kept her entertained long enough to smash.

Tinder is dead in America but I don't see how you can pull chicks from Instagram. It just seems like a validation tool. How do you spit your game, meet up, and bang?

I hate social media also and never take pictures. I find Twitter a better platform for me because I have a jazzy mouthpiece. There is more effort involved in language.

You don't have to enjoy Instagram to benefit from the pool of vagina on there. All of the activities you do above work well on Instagram. It's all in your filters and lighting. As long as you have some photos of yourself, treat the rest of your profile like a portfolio of hobbies and interests.

[VforVlad]

It's true. I keep a tab on a few girls I sort of know who have maxed out on Facebook friends and have a big following on IG.

They jump from "relationship" to relationship with guys who also have a pretty good following. One girl was "in a relationship with...some guy" 3 weeks ago, became single again and is in a relationship once again.

That's 2 cocks within a 3 week span. And you look at these guys profiles, and they have done this before with other girls. And this isn't your cream of the crop, tall dark and handsome guy. But more of tatted up, skinny/lanky type with some Liberal-ish views online...resharing Bernie Sanders memes.

[Graft]

(06-14-2016 10:58 PM)VforVlad Wrote:  

It's true. I keep a tab on a few girls I sort of know who have maxed out on Facebook friends and have a big following on IG.

They jump from "relationship" to relationship with guys who also have a pretty good following. One girl was "in a relationship with...some guy" 3 weeks ago, became single again and is in a relationship once again.

That's 2 cocks within a 3 week span. And you look at these guys profiles, and they have done this before with other girls. And this isn't your cream of the crop, tall dark and handsome guy. But more of tatted up, skinny/lanky type with some Liberal-ish views online...resharing Bernie Sanders memes.

I was saying this probably a year ago on my Discus, anteing up your social media will be a fundamental part of game in the future.

It does make my blood boil that Bernie pussies are pulling.

There are a lot of in-group preferences because of the lifestyle: Ford model dates Wilhemina model, traveling wanderers dating each other, fitness models, etc. All will hundreds of thousands of followers.

[Ethan Hunt]

I'm not entirely convinced by your arguments.

The time it takes to set up an active and growing IG account could be better used elsewhere. In fact actually doing approaches is 100 times better than sitting back and wondering why some chick with 50k followers hasn't written back. IG could be used if your lifestyle is genuinely interesting enough to gain a following. The reality is your lifestyle probably isn't so you'll be stuck in the bottom 98% of men.

I wouldn't dismiss IG altogether as it can add a supplementary element that online game offers but that is just it, a supplement and should never be a replacement for the real thing.

The thousands of cumulative hours and costs doesn't seem worth it when you think of how you could be spending your time/money. Unless fame for the sake of fame is your driving force I wouldn't touch IG.

That's just me though and perhaps under different circumstances I'd use it.

[kirdiesel]

Instagram has been more successful also for me than online but I have built up a following of over 1000.

[Eddie Winslow]

(06-15-2016 02:00 AM)Ethan Hunt Wrote:  

I'm not entirely convinced by your arguments.

The time it takes to set up an active and growing IG account could be better used elsewhere. In fact actually doing approaches is 100 times better than sitting back and wondering why some chick with 50k followers hasn't written back. IG could be used if your lifestyle is genuinely interesting enough to gain a following. The reality is your lifestyle probably isn't so you'll be stuck in the bottom 98% of men.

I wouldn't dismiss IG altogether as it can add a supplementary element that online game offers but that is just it, a supplement and should never be a replacement for the real thing.

The thousands of cumulative hours and costs doesn't seem worth it when you think of how you could be spending your time/money. Unless fame for the sake of fame is your driving force I wouldn't touch IG.

That's just me though and perhaps under different circumstances I'd use it.

This is my general feeling on it as well. I'm not hating - I have no doubt that some guys are doing well with IG. However, I also know first hand that chicks who measure guys' (and their own) worth by likes and followers are the shittiest, flakiest, most vapid and disloyal women out there.

They are insufferably boring humans who find it impossible to live in the moment. How can she be fun when she constantly interrupts good times to take full photo shoots, and then twice as long to watch the comments and likes roll in?

I will agree that online dating is now full of fat chicks and homely women, and also that IG game is the future of "dating" for the younger generation. The hours of being buried in my own phone and insanely high flaking/ghosting I have to deal with just isn't worth it for me. And may the good lord strike me down if I ever become one of these:

[Kid Twist]

Seems like consensus is in the time it takes to set this up (given the vapid creatures it attracts anyway) I might as well be cold approaching elsewhere or traveling to cultures where they have better, more feminine women and not ... idiots.

[Phoenix]

OK, can someone give an overview of how using Instagram to get laid works? Does it include some GPS or location thing and a messaging aspect like on tinder?

[Rhyme or Reason]

(06-15-2016 11:22 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

OK, can someone give an overview of how using Instagram to get laid works? Does it include some GPS or location thing and a messaging aspect like on tinder?

Someone dropped a data sheet on that. I believe it was Fisto.

(06-14-2016 09:48 PM)xxMarco Wrote:  

One of the biggest problems i've had with social media is pictures. I deleted my instagram years ago because I only had a few pictures. Not that I don't do cool shit but if i'm in the middle of doing cool shit the last thing I do is pull out my phone and take a selfie. If I did I would seem like every basic girl out there and that just isn't me.

I'm inclined to agree. I've tried making an IG account interesting but I just can't be fucked to take pictures of everything. It's not my style. Any time someone busts out a selfie in front of me they get a dirty look from me...and I don't wanna be a hippo-crit.

[Graft]

To be honest, I'm not trying to convince you. I was hesitant on sharing this because it is so underutilized and I know once this knowledge becomes mainstream I will lose my angle. I only shared it here because of my loyalty to ROK/RVF.

There are many angles to take, but no need for "interesting" pics if you are good looking and well-built enough. If you are an 8+ looks wise, all you need is pics of yourself framed properly.

Regardless, you need followers and likes-real or fake. At least 10k followers and 1k likes per photo. Combine this with pictures of a handsome and built guy, I vehemently disagree that he would have better results cold approaching.

You can do by GPS location, etc but I challenge everyone who is interested to spend a few hours on instagram. Browse hot girls, the comments, popular guys and who they are following, etc etc. If I find one hot girl/guy in NYC I can just look at their followers and have hundreds of leads in minutes. I can also break down the girls you should target if you want.

Yes, it takes a little bit of time, but not stratospheric levels that you might think. It also depends on what level you take it to. Will you be doing photoshoots with photogs? Or just selfies/tripod? I've seen guys kill it with both.

I respect the forum enough to not speak badly about traditional cold approaches, but I have set this up so that those approaches will not be a part of my life.

[rudebwoy]

Good topic!

I recently opened up a IG account and within the first week, some chick hit me up.

My pics are all DHV, I use pics from past trips and BS material stuff I have.

I have met a few hotties in person and they have asked for my IG account, this of course was before I had an account.

I hate online dating, sadly it seems like a required thing in today's world.

Fisto wrote a great post about IG game in the lifestyle section.

[RagnarLothbrok]

(06-15-2016 11:22 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

OK, can someone give an overview of how using Instagram to get laid works? Does it include some GPS or location thing and a messaging aspect like on tinder?

You can search for hashtags and locations. For example, you could find all users who recently posted a picture with the hashtag #bangkok or everyone who posted a picture and geotagged it to a location, for example "RCA - Route 66". This way you can find everyone who went to a particular club or event the night before and posted it on Instagram. Pretty powerful if you ask me.

There was a time when Instagram didn't allow to message other users but nowadays you can message and chat with others just like on every other social media app. The big advantage is - as OP already pointed out - that you have much less and much weaker competition on Instagram as there are not many guys who have a good IG page with a big following.

I started taking Instagram seriously about 3 months ago. Since then I have used various methods to grow my page and will hit 10,000 followers (with 1,000 to 2,000 likes for most pictures) at the end of the month (I am currently growing at a rate of ~100 new followers per day). I only post 1 pic every week or so but I try to only post high quality pics. I haven't tried to get laid from Instagram so far as I am still focusing on growing but I did get some messages and phone numbers from good looking girls in my "niche". If I actively searched and messaged girls on Instagram, I am pretty sure it would be a lot more effective than Tinder.

I wouldn't recommend to buy fake followers unless your followers-to-like ratio is outstanding. My ratio is pretty good. I could probably buy 10k followers and nobody would notice because having 20k followers and more than 1k likes on your pictures doesn't look suspicious. If you plan to monetize your site by promoting products of other companies in your niche once you are big enough, you shouldn't buy any fake followers at all.

I will probably write a datasheet in the next couple of months. Fisto's sheet is good and already covers many things. However, it doesn't really cover the most important aspect: how to really grow your page and monetize it. In the end the amount of followers defines your status on Instagram. With a big following comes power. Just imagine having 100k+ followers of a certain demographic and target group and then marketing some of your own products to them via your page.