[Requiem]

(04-29-2016 02:31 PM)Horus Wrote:  

Ok dickhead. Perhaps there wasn't an actual button. However he simply performed his duty as a guard and wasn't responsible for what happened in the gas chambers.

I wasn't trying to ridicule you, I just cracked up when I read that term. Reminded me of those Hollywood depictions of the subject (+ the Trump meme).
And my last question was an actual question. The topic unfortunately is still very relevant today and that's why it's also important to know some details. The process in question shouldn't even be considered a detail.

[Kona]

This guy blew the whistle that woke up all of the gas chamber and oven operators at Auschwitz and you guys think him being prosecuted now is because of social justice warriors?

Yes he was a soldier and yes he knew that would follow him for the rest of his life.

I hope they fry the evil son of a bitch. He should have had some balls and turned himself in a long time ago.

If when I'm 94 they say what I did during Iraq and afghanistan is illegal, I'll deal with it, and any time in between. That's what being a soldier is.

Aloha!

[Paracelsus]

(04-29-2016 11:43 AM)Parzival Wrote:  

For those of you that have an interest in History. I'm mixed about those cases. How many high rank ones did not face a trial? I agree on the term of personal responsibility but it seems like the hunt down now all the little soldiers that had been part of the machine.

I think they've probably nailed most if not all of the high-ranking SS guards, albeit a good number suicided once caught or close to getting caught, or the others have died.

I'm more interested to see how many Muslim SS officers have ever been prosecuted. There were tens of thousands of them, recruited by Hitler after discussions in Palestine, used mainly in Bosnia and Serbia.

When it comes to the fact it's been so long ago and the suggestion these guys are just a bunch of old men - let's take an analogy. Say there was a paedophile ring in Hollywood fifty years ago, fucked hundreds of ten year old boys over a five year period. Say there's a guy working as a bookkeeper for this movement, or indeed a guy who drove the cars in which the boys were raped, knew exactly what was going on, but whether because it was the fifties or because they were all blowing coke together he didn't stop, didn't report it, didn't try to stop it. Paedophilia ring breaks up in 1955 because all the participants get shipped off to Korea or something. Now say the guy said nothing about his involvement for fifty years and only proclaims his abhorrence for paedophilia that far down the line. Would you guys not charge him or prosecute him for his part?

[BortimusPrime]

Basically every argued purpose of the criminal justice system fails in these cases:

Revenge: He's 94. Killing him is taking away a couple years of his normal life expectancy tops. Imprisoning him will probably just involve him being in a hospital bed for a couple years, same as if he wasn't imprisoned.

Rehabilitation: He's 94.

Deterrence: Yeah, because we need to show these urban youths that it's NOT OKAY to join a fascist attempt at world conquest. Maybe we can do one of those little "The More You Know" public service ads during the afternoon cartoons on TV too.

Protect the Public from criminals: Did I mention he's 94 yet?

The only purpose of these ridiculous trials is to beat a dead horse so that whites can make a big production of virtue-signaling how morally enlightened they are. It's also a way for Jews to play make-believe that they're super tough and powerful getting their revenge.

[John Michael Kane]

When the moral outrage of going after near-dead men is more important than the current invading Islamist scum with their child raping, bomb the hell out of everything and behead everything that doesn't agree with us, you can tell a nation has its priorities out of whack. Is this guy a living saint? Hardly. But is he the most pertinent matter facing the world right now for human rights? Please. As BortimusPrime said above, this is merely a White Guilt exercise for shaming Germans for something that happened 70 years ago. Pathetic.

[Horus]

(04-29-2016 10:37 PM)Requiem Wrote:  

(04-29-2016 02:31 PM)Horus Wrote:  

Ok dickhead. Perhaps there wasn't an actual button. However he simply performed his duty as a guard and wasn't responsible for what happened in the gas chambers.

I wasn't trying to ridicule you, I just cracked up when I read that term. Reminded me of those Hollywood depictions of the subject (+ the Trump meme).
And my last question was an actual question. The topic unfortunately is still very relevant today and that's why it's also important to know some details. The process in question shouldn't even be considered a detail.

Mate I apologise. I had just come home after a particularly bad day. It was me that was a dickhead for responding like that.

[JWLZG]

(04-29-2016 11:48 PM)Paracelsus Wrote:  

I'm more interested to see how many Muslim SS officers have ever been prosecuted. There were tens of thousands of them, recruited by Hitler after discussions in Palestine, used mainly in Bosnia and Serbia.

Why SS Muslims specifically?

Muslim members of the SS were recruited from the Balkans, not Palestine, and composed two divisions; the 13th (Handschar), and the 21st (Skanderbeg).

There may have been tens of thousands of them, but they weren't the officers. Those particular SS units were staffed by mostly German officers, the rank and file were Muslim. It's not like Nazism had its genesis in Islam.

The SS and Wehrmacht recruited from practically every occupied and allied nation; by 1945 Germans from Germany (excluding Volksdeutsche - ethnic Germans from outside it) were a minority in the Waffen-SS. Muslims were hardly the more enthusiastic Nazis out of the foreign recruits.

Not trying to apologise for Islam, just pointing out that they didn't even comprise a significant element of the SS, nor were they one its more repugnant units - let alone their most combat effective.

Less than 20 of them served in the Einsatzgruppen and concentration camps. 38 veterans from the Handschar Division were tried and found guilty of atrocities after the war, and 7 were executed.

http://www.axishistory.com/axis-nations/...ische-nr-1

[Parzival]

(04-29-2016 11:48 PM)Paracelsus Wrote:  

I'm more interested to see how many Muslim SS officers have ever been prosecuted. There were tens of thousands of them, recruited by Hitler after discussions in Palestine, used mainly in Bosnia and Serbia.

Foreigners and Volksdeutsche, that did fight for Hitler got mostly shot after the war in their country of origin. Well the ones that just got shot had be more lucky then the ones that got tortured to death. Allied forces often also send back those troops into their countries by the knowledge that they will get tortured and killed.

Look what did happen to the French, Belgium, Netherlands and other western nationality soldiers for the Nazi. For the eastern volunteers it got even worse with the communist winners.

[Requiem]

(04-30-2016 04:04 AM)Horus Wrote:  

Mate I apologise. I had just come home after a particularly bad day. It was me that was a dickhead for responding like that.

No offense taken. I actually took the "dickhead" comment to be meant in a joking manner. Either way, this is the internet and for lack of facial expression and tone I understand how my post can be seen as an attack.

[Kona]

(04-30-2016 03:48 AM)John Michael Kane Wrote:  

When the moral outrage of going after near-dead men is more important than the current invading Islamist scum with their child raping, bomb the hell out of everything and behead everything that doesn't agree with us, you can tell a nation has its priorities out of whack. Is this guy a living saint? Hardly. But is he the most pertinent matter facing the world right now for human rights? Please. As BortimusPrime said above, this is merely a White Guilt exercise for shaming Germans for something that happened 70 years ago. Pathetic.

They aren't stopping everything else to go after this guy. If this was the 1980s would you say "hey with that cold war and all nows a bad time to put this guy on trial?"

There's always something going on, that doesn't mean you don't lock up the guy that blew the breakfast whistle at a death camp.

Aloha!

[Dusty]

What's the difference between a cow and the holocaust?

A cow can only be milked for 10 years.

[John Michael Kane]

(04-30-2016 12:44 PM)Kona Wrote:  

(04-30-2016 03:48 AM)John Michael Kane Wrote:  

When the moral outrage of going after near-dead men is more important than the current invading Islamist scum with their child raping, bomb the hell out of everything and behead everything that doesn't agree with us, you can tell a nation has its priorities out of whack. Is this guy a living saint? Hardly. But is he the most pertinent matter facing the world right now for human rights? Please. As BortimusPrime said above, this is merely a White Guilt exercise for shaming Germans for something that happened 70 years ago. Pathetic.

They aren't stopping everything else to go after this guy. If this was the 1980s would you say "hey with that cold war and all nows a bad time to put this guy on trial?"

There's always something going on, that doesn't mean you don't lock up the guy that blew the breakfast whistle at a death camp.

Aloha!

Look at the bigger picture. Jewish organizations like Simon Wiesenthal Center make a regular point of promoting the Holocaust through non-stop marketing. They've also secured contracts with public schools and colleges to constantly promote the Holocaust as if it was the only tragedy ever. Where's the same sense of justice for chasing after killers of Christians, just like the Turks did to the Armenians?

Oh wait, Jewish groups denied what happened to Armenians, just to try and save face with Turkey, because it is an ally of Israel:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2014...story.html

Quote:

When Suffolk University Law School announced this spring that Anti-Defamation League National Director Abraham Foxman would deliver its commencement address and receive an honorary degree, it became enmeshed in a controversy that has roiled the Boston area for the past seven years.

Because ADL had long denied the Armenian Genocide and, more critically, actively lobbied on behalf of the perpetrator, Turkey, against its recognition by Congress, 14 Massachusetts communities and the Massachusetts Municipal Association withdrew from ADL’s “No Place for Hate” program in 2007-2008.

Bottom line, it wasn't until Jewish groups were called out on their hypocracy of chasing after nearly dead Nazis, but failed to note the killings of 1.5 million Christians by the Turks, did they issue a half-assed apology. Take note: Modern day Holocaust "Justice" isn't about bringing 94 year old men to pay for their sins. Rather, it is constantly trotted out by the Holocaust Lobby to justify anything that Jewish groups and pro-Israel groups want more broadly.

Keep in mind that these very same Jewish groups are EXTREMELY pro-feminist, pro-globalism and anti-Christian. They have zero tolerance for anyone who disagrees with them. Look up the history of "hate" speech laws in Europe. You can be thrown in jail over words. Are these really the people you trust to pursue justice regarding perpatrators of evil? Why aren't there the same hunts to find all the mass murders in the former Soviet bloc countries?

Hint: Because an outsized representation of Jewish power in communist movements would be exposed.

Things that make you say hmmmmm....

Does this camp guard deserve to be prosecuted? I don't have all the details, perhaps yes, perhaps no. Why not leave that up to a prosecutor, based upon the evidence he finds? Instead, we have these public show trials by media. By that same token, are we going to search out the thousands of Soviet troops that were known to rape women en masse as World War II came to a close? Where's the clarion call to locate and DNA test thousands of 92 year old Russian soldiers and cross-reference it against the thousands of German women who were raped and bore illegitimate children?

You see, some people really care about justice, but only when it applies very selectively. That is why the constant media fanfare of "we caught another Nazi" really gets my goat. These people aren't interested in justice, they are interested in carrying on a narrative, and a very profitable one at that.

[Kona]

(04-30-2016 01:11 PM)John Michael Kane Wrote:  

Look at the bigger picture.

I think you are focusing on the big picture way too much. This guy is 94. I say round up as many of these fuckers as they can so at least they die inside a cell. And I hear German jails are really nice. Murder is murder.

(04-30-2016 01:11 PM)John Michael Kane Wrote:  

Does this camp guard deserve to be prosecuted? I don't have all the details, perhaps yes, perhaps no. Why not leave that up to a prosecutor, based upon the evidence he finds?

Well that seems to be what is going on here to the letter. This 94 year old is on trial, and evidence is being looked at. His confession is a big part of that evidence.

Germany hasn't shut down over this. I'm sure the schnitzel factory is running. This is a trial of a war criminal and trials get news.

OJs trial got more news than this guys. Should we say "well the turks killed the Armenians and the turks like Isreal and Isreal likes the US, therefore, stop wasting time on OJ"

No. That's focusing too much on the "big picture" and not the actual issue, which is the murder.

Aloha!

[John Michael Kane]

(04-30-2016 08:12 PM)Kona Wrote:  

(04-30-2016 01:11 PM)John Michael Kane Wrote:  

Look at the bigger picture.

I think you are focusing on the big picture way too much. This guy is 94. I say round up as many of these fuckers as they can so at least they die inside a cell. And I hear German jails are really nice. Murder is murder.

If this guy murdered anyone, or gave the orders to murder anyone, then he should be prosecuted. I see no problem with that.

(04-30-2016 01:11 PM)John Michael Kane Wrote:  

Does this camp guard deserve to be prosecuted? I don't have all the details, perhaps yes, perhaps no. Why not leave that up to a prosecutor, based upon the evidence he finds?

Quote:

Well that seems to be what is going on here to the letter. This 94 year old is on trial, and evidence is being looked at. His confession is a big part of that evidence.

Yup, and that's what this thing you be based upon, evidence. The state has to make the case that he should be convicted. Innocent until proven guilty. Doesn't matter if you're accused of rape or being a Nazi. Convict on evidence, not public opinion, which is often not the case in alleged rape/Nazi court cases.

Quote:

Germany hasn't shut down over this. I'm sure the schnitzel factory is running. This is a trial of a war criminal and trials get news.

Have the trial, but they shouldn't make a public spectacle of it. It influences both judges and juries to jump to pre-conclusions, and that isn't in the interest of justice. Evidence should be the one and only standard for conviction, not a public frothing at the mouth to "get another Nazi".

Quote:

OJs trial got more news than this guys. Should we say "well the turks killed the Armenians and the turks like Isreal and Isreal likes the US, therefore, stop wasting time on OJ"

OJ's media coverage also made it very hard to have a proper trial. The media is often a bunch of vultures that care only for ratings, not whether or not actual justice was served. There was certainly enough evidence to charge OJ with the crime, which has nothing to do with the media spectacle. Either there is a case for a prosecutor or there isn't. Doesn't matter if it is OJ or a Nazi. The media are often just parasites along for the ride.

Quote:

No. That's focusing too much on the "big picture" and not the actual issue, which is the murder.

Yes, the issue is murder, but innocent until proven guilty is what I say. If there's a case, make the case. But both the government and the media make spectacles of these trials, which can certainly influence outcomes for the defendant. Ideally, the only thing that should influence whether or not the accused is convicted is if there is "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard of evidence and testimony to convict.

Last, but not least, there are certainly political aspects to these trials. The so-called human rights groups like the ADL and Simon Wiesenthal Center have a very long history of tracking down Nazis and alleged Nazis to the ends of the Earth. They've made a HUGE deal about finding these men. Do I have a problem with that? No, not in theory. But when these same groups run whitewashing campaigns for the Turks for killing 1.5 million people, why should we put them in charge of bringing alleged Nazi's to justice? They have a proven history of being anything but impartial. These Nazi trials are truly one-of-a-kind in terms of the fervor of those supporting them. Where's all the organized Jewish groups demand that Mao's lackeys be brought to task for the millions they killed? How about the Soviet commissars? How about any other number of killers that continue to remain free?

At the end of the day, if you look at the real history of hunting down Nazi war criminals, you'll see it often is far more about Jewish vengeance for what the Nazis did during WWII than it is about trying to make sure everyone gets a fair serving of justice. Like I said before, and I'll repeat, there are no widespread campaigns to bring to justice the leadership of communist countries that killed tens of millions more than the Nazis did. The Holocaust was approximately 6 million people. Go after the Nazis all you want, but don't think for a second that a large part of it isn't just trying to shame modern Germany for uncontested support for Israel's policies, and for flooding their country with Islamic rapeugees by the likes of George Soros (an admitted Nazi sympathizer!) and other Jews who have an agenda to push, well beyond "justice" for soldiers of the 3rd Reich.

[puckerman]

The man is 94. Is he a threat to anybody? Is he going to commit any crimes against anyone else? And what will it cost to incarcerate him?

[tomtud]

As the French philosopher Voltaire said " to learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize".

These former nazi soldiers weren't allowed to say a peep when they were enlisted. To blame them for their actions today is stretching. Nobody is charging former soviet gulag soldiers for their involvement in their own camps.

Germany has been castrated by the Jews IMHO for the nazi crimes and forever seem to be indebted to the Jews. The Roma (gypsies) were in those camps as well and there is no mention of them by the media or in German guilt. Anybody with logic will agree that the holocaust was a terrible event. It's just that logic gets thrown out when these nazi hunters are getting any attention and the world is turning a blind eye to what Israel did to Palestine.

[911]

If you're not familiar with the works of Canadian historian James Bacque, his research is essential to coming to terms with the true legacy of WW2 and placing the subject of this thread within a proper and unbiased context.

In "Other Losses", Bacque documented the mass murder of around one million German POWs in post-WW2 concentration camps run by the United States and France.

In 1997, he released "Crimes and Mercies", which examined the deaths of German civilians under Allied occupation, primarily from starvation as a result of policies deliberately designed to starve the German population.

Based upon extensive research into declassified government documents and other primary source material, Bacque concluded that 5.7 million German civilians died under Allied occupation inside of Germany from 1945 to 1950. Mind-blowing stuff about Allied war crimes against German civilians and POWs in the post-war era:

Another very poignant testimony by an American soldier who was a guard in an Allied concentration camp:

In 'Eisenhower's Death Camps': A U.S. Prison Guard Remembers

"...some of our weak and sickly prisoners were marched off by French soldiers to their camp. We were riding on a truck behind this column. Temporarily, it slowed down and dropped back, perhaps because the driver was as shocked as I was. Whenever a German prisoner staggered or dropped back, he was hit on the head with a club and killed. The bodies were rolled to the side of the road to be picked up by another truck. For many, this quick death might have been preferable to slow starvation in our "killing fields."


I've only learned about this largely hidden facet of WW2 two years ago. Everybody needs to learn about this. Bacque is a Canadian hero, his career was destroyed after he came out with "Other Losses", yet he's been steadfastly unrepentant in his pursuit of the truth.

[Parzival]

Just to say, this chase is not all over the media, it was just a report. Not in the headlines so far.

I read a book about the Einsatzgruppen, the troops that shoot people behind the frontlines. When you did not want to shoot people, there was punishment involved for you. But it was quite hard to stand alone in the unit then. It was more something out of social pressure and be part of the group. To some point later the soldiers even get used to it. So I don't know how much of this you could avoid by ask not to take part in it or get send to the frontlines or an other place. So there was an individual choice to ask what goes on and at least don't take part in it.
I also agree that guild never fades away. Just because you are now old, there is still the symbolic punishment for your sins and crimes.

Of this guy need a punishment? The court will show, they gather now to see if they found something to speak him guilty. But I strongly agree the Holocaust did become a money industry. The pity is, it's not in benefit for the victims. Those Auschwitz Survivors in the trial now are at the bottom line of the benefits from this industry.
And yes, Allied troops almost never did face a serious punishment. Hell there are even stories of murder out there in the 50s and 60s where American Occupation forces killed someone drunk and German authorities could do nothing. Mostly the soldier was just send home. So far this did change complete. My Grandma but also my parents did tell me stories about the US troops, how they often had fights with locals. Then the MP just beat everyone. Some friendships did also start or of course some single moms. The Americans did import this trend quite early. Make naive and stupid German girls pregnant and then after their time, back to the US without them. Today its a little bit different, the troops behave a way better and it seems like the US Military set some behave codex in charge. Also when you look at the war crimes in Afghanistan and Iraq, those soldiers did face a hard punishment. But back after the war till the 60s / 70s, the winner takes it all.

[EDantes]

Yet commie terrorists like Bill Ayers get offered professor positions at public universities...

[TheWhiteWolf]

I'm still waiting for the trial of a certain Hungarian business magnet who aided the Nazis and sold out his own people.

[911]

Simon Wiesenthal, who led the postwar hunt for geriatric ex-Nazis, was also a collaborator, he was supposedly a "kapo" agent with the Gestapo in Poland (according to French dissident Alain Soral). I guess he didn't turn himself in.

Soral and others also made a strong case for the most publicized professional holocaust survivor and Nobel laureate Elie Wiesel being a fraud. His book "Night" is fraught with inconsistencies.

(at the 3:52 mark)

[germanico]

Save everyones time and just give him a stool and some rope.