[torridon747]

If there's some form of symbiosis I'm all game. Though if I put in more than i get out of it i do just that; get out of it.

[philosophical_recovery]

I've had a few relationships that were ~1.5 years in length
I've had a few others that were ~6-9 mos
Throw in all the ONSs, the sluts I banged while I banged their friends and every other girl I could get my hands on, and I've seen both sides.

Even before I knew what I was doing, around the 6-9mo mark I started to feel off if I came to the realization of: There's no way in the hell I want this thing to raise my kids. Didn't matter that I didn't want kids right that second at 19-20something years old. I didn't want to even risk sticking my dick in that pussy again and accidentally knocking her up. I got over that risk due to being young and horny as all hell, but the desire to escape would build until it overpowered my guilt for breaking up with them.

More recently my BS tolerance for LTRs that revealed the girls' true character caused me to check out much earlier and not feel guilty at all for it. Just flat out stopped giving a fuck. I'm at the point now that if I find a good woman I'm not sure if she is good or not, if I am gaming her right for an LTR, and if I am wasting too much time thinking about it instead of getting new girls. Add in the desire to do other, more productive things, that gets overriden by my emotional side. Hence, my need to practice more emotional control and mindset.

One of the big things that was common in my failed relationships was jumping in hot and heavy immediately. Slowing it down a bit has been a great check of my sanity. Just because I can get a girl over for multiple days in a row for bang sessions doesn't mean it's a good idea.

I don't know if it's self defeating, but if I find an assumed good girl I've been dropping a few beta traits here and there as bait to see how they react. What will they do? Punish that behavior? If they truly do, I get the urge to fuck and chuck, discounting the illusory attributes they had. Because sooner or later, some beta is going to slip out and if they react harshly, I am not going to have a good time.

Even though I want kids, I fear getting caught in the "grass is always greener" loop of always chasing a better/hotter/younger/sweeter piece of tail because it always starts cropping up on me.

[torridon747]

I feel you man. It's pretty hard to show you care and want to keep a girl around while maintaining a solid frame. I think it's in most women's nature to take advantage of that. I'm currently stumped on how to handle it.

Last attempt at an LTR failed basically as soon as I told the girl I cared about her and wanted to keep her around. Not a week after we had that talk she was throwing disrespect around like crazy and not wanting to smash. Surely I handled it improperly, but maybe she was just garbage. Nexted her after she unapologetically flaked two days in a row. Told her "You're a sweet girl and I'm sure you'll do very well for yourself someday. Good luck" then left. She texted me and apologized or whatever but my frame was so gone I found it to be an unfixable situation.

[Leonard D Neubache]

As a guy in a marriage that's lasted well past the honeymoon phase it's difficult to explain to bachelors how it is you figure on which one is worth keeping.

The trouble is that the girls you hook up with to get your notch count are generally hot and reliably stupid. They have garden variety IQs or worse because their looks have led to a life of zero challenges. Hence you're rarely going to find a gem because the very women you seek to bang almost certainly by definition have the very traits you'd want to avoid in an LTR.

Don't count on 'finding the one' on your whirlwind tour through cuntopia. When you're ready to settle down you'll start looking for entirely different factors. A bod that will age well. Low or zero notch count. High IQ absent higher education. Home skills. And of course all of this will invariably be part of a tradeoff for the huge tits and open legs of the 7s, 8s and 9s you've been banging up until then.

[XXL]

What in the bloody hell is the point of an LTR unless you're absolutely committed to inevitable marriage?

It's nice to have a pretty young thing all over you treating you just like the way you like and beside all that have great sex on demand 24/7. It requires more game than chasing tail but reward tastes so good.

[philosophical_recovery]

(12-09-2016 02:56 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

As a guy in a marriage that's lasted well past the honeymoon phase it's difficult to explain to bachelors how it is you figure on which one is worth keeping.

The trouble is that the girls you hook up with to get your notch count are generally hot and reliably stupid. They have garden variety IQs or worse because their looks have led to a life of zero challenges. Hence you're rarely going to find a gem because the very women you seek to bang almost certainly by definition have the very traits you'd want to avoid in an LTR.

Don't count on 'finding the one' on your whirlwind tour through cuntopia. When you're ready to settle down you'll start looking for entirely different factors. A bod that will age well. Low or zero notch count. High IQ absent higher education. Home skills. And of course all of this will invariably be part of a tradeoff for the huge tits and open legs of the 7s, 8s and 9s you've been banging up until then.

Undoubtably. I have a radar fine tuned to seek out homeschooled girls at the moment.

Still, it's very difficult to read these types. Are they playing games? Are they really as chaste as you would believe? How much extra warmth should you add that would normally scare away all the other girls and make you feel like a chump?

It's taking trial and error now, and I'm in my early 30s. If I had to fine tune this in my 40s I think I'd go insane. Especially if I have enough coin then for that to be a huge factor in attraction. Would make things even harder. At that point a Melania type that would stab any other potential girls or assassins herself would start looking good....hah!

[Leonard D Neubache]

At the risk of sounding creepy I'm going to put this out there.

Some of my casual work brings me into contact with large numbers of pubescent girls. It's incredible how a process we typically believe takes a decade to play out can be written out in its entirety on a young woman's face by the time she's 16. I shit you not, I could predict any of their futures with unerring accuracy because at that stage of their development they have come nowhere close to mastering the art of deception. They are an utterly open book.

Having said that, the correlation between their behaviour vs their response to eye contact is, to me, always the most telling factor. This might get me into trouble one day (making eye contact with 16 year old girls) and I don't solicit it but I refuse to look away on principle. Dog will hunt. Fish will swim. Leonard will stare down.

Getting back to the point
A girl that acts slutty/empowered and holds eye contact is too brazen to be a keeper.
A girl that acts slutty/empowered and breaks eye contact is made to be broken by anyone who has the means and the motivation (but why waste your time).
A girl that acts shy and breaks eye contact is not a sexual creature yet and therefore of no relevance no matter their age.
The girl that acts shy but holds eye contact is probably the best of the four. The proverbial lady on the streets and freak in the sheets.

I'll just add the standard disclaimer that I'm not hitting on or banging underage girls (or anyone other than my wife for that matter).

Make of it what you will.

[philosophical_recovery]

Ever read War and Peace? The way the young Russians are described when they meet potential suitors is reflected in what you say. Natasha, especially.

[Prof. Ligate]

Just smash other puss on the side while you're in an LTR. Once you've found a better piece of ass you trade-up. Relationships don't have to be so black and white

[StrikeBack]

My mentor - RIP - used to tell me the same thing: LTR is useless unless you plan to marry the woman. Before my wife, I never had a LTR, but had many STRs lasting at most 3 months. I didn't plan it, I just vetted them harshly enough that after a certain amount of time, I knew right away they were not marriage materials and put them on the P&D or FB pile. I wasn't even looking to get married then (I was very anti-marriage), but I did not want to be stuck with a woman for too long if I didn't want to marry her, because inevitably you'd get her trying to move in and get to "the next stage".

[birthday cat]

(04-21-2016 03:32 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

What in the bloody hell is the point of an LTR unless you're absolutely committed to inevitable marriage?

Now, I'm not talking about "friends with benefits". I'm talking monogamy and eventual cohabitation, because if I had to give one piece of advice to my sons regarding women it would be "until you're genuinely looking to settle down, pump and dump exclusively."

A lot of the LTR discussions on this forum get confusing because different guys have different definitions of LTR.

In the case of monogamy and eventual cohabitation, I understand why guys might want to avoid this unless they believe the relationship will lead to marriage (or a similar partnership with cohabitation and having kids, i.e. some guys will try to avoid the legal aspects of marriage).

However, I disagree with the idea of "until you're genuinely looking to settle down, pump and dump exclusively." In my opinion, guys should try to have multiple experiences with women in a variety of situations.

First, there are many situations in which an LTR could make sense even if it probably won't lead to marriage. (1) A guy might be focused on his school or career and he wants to get laid on a regular basis without having to take the time to chase one night stands. (2) A guy might be young and want the relationship at the present time but he might not know what he wants later in life. (3) A guy might live in a city that he doesn't plan to stay in forever and he knows the relationship will probably end when he moves. There an infinite amount of scenarios but I think the most important thing to remember is that the relationship should have a positive impact on the guy's life at the present time.

Second, I think there will be issues that arise from both the experience of exclusively pumping and dumping as well as the lack of experience with LTRs due to exclusively pumping and dumping.

The experience of exclusively pumping and dumping will train a guy to always expect new girls and new pussy. I don't know that we need a detailed discussion of the psychological and biological processes that occur but men doing this will inevitably train their brain to expect new pussy and the "honeymoon phase" or "new relationship energy" phase of interactions with women. Guys doing this will likely have a difficult time after the first few months of an LTR when the "new" factor fades away. I don't think this is a problem that can't be overcome but it takes time to overcome. The idea that a guy can pump and dump exclusively for many years and then stop on a dime and immediately transition into a mindset that is focused on serious relationships and cohabitation isn't going to work for a lot of men.

There will also be a lack of LTR experience. It is possible for a guy's first LTR to be a success but having experience with LTRs should be more helpful than only having experience with pump and dumps. There are many situations and aspects of relationships that a guy will never experience if he waits until he is considering marriage before having any relationship. These comments from one of VincentVinturi's threads are a good example.

(11-29-2016 08:07 AM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  

Quote:

In any case I would be curious to read more about what you mean when you wrote: "I've got a ways to go with this relationship stuff" (?)

It means that I'm not used to being in any kind of long term relationship with a girl that isn't purely sexual/casual.

Sharing expenses, personal space, decisions, planning for the future, planning a family, considering another person's feelings in the context of "togetherness" while reconciling it with my player nature and respecting myself - these are all things that I've never really had to do and never much wanted to do.

If I had given long term relationships the respect they deserve I'd be entering into this one better equipped and not fighting a steep learning curve.
...

There is no doubt that having experience with a lot of women will teach a lot to a man but I think there should be more of a balanced approach with multiple types of experiences.

[Leonard D Neubache]

Yeah, I've come around on this a bit too, but a guy has to hold some serious frame in order to make sure that the woman doesn't get too comfortable.

Cohabitation is a skill that aids in a successful LTR down the line but those legal pitfalls need to scrupulously monitored. The best way to enter into these kind of arrangements initially is to maintain separate homes but stay with each other for increasingly long periods. The "all in" method is a recipe for disaster, especially for the uninitiated. And don't think it's going to save you money. Women may talk a big game about paying for half of everything and it might start out like that but the novelty will soon wear off for them, and pretty soon you're going to be footing all the bills.

[Dalaran1991]

Maybe just me but I dont see why LTR = eventual cohabitation? I've been with my girl for 2 years and we each stay at our own place. My last 8-months main chick, I come to see her at her place half the week but she never visited mine.

If there's a list of things that easily kills a LTR, cohabitation must be on the top. Loss of privacy is simply not worth any price. That, and most guys cant even stand girls changing stuffs inside their cars, yet niggas think moving in with a girl is a good idea?

Game-wise, it also negates most of the LTR-maintenance tactics such as not making yourself available all the time, dread game, etc.

That said, a pre-marriage LTR is another beast altogether, and I'm not touching it until I reach peak maturity at 30-35.