[456]

(04-16-2016 05:52 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

There's little doubt that many of them have been exposed to red pill/PUA material given that they use the Internet, and I'm pretty sure that many of them consider themselves to be the female counterpart to a male PUA/player. ...

^^ a subset of hotter girls actually believes they have game and are somehow putting in work and accomplishing bangs, especially if the guy fits her archetype. Their egos feed off of it in a pseudo-player way.

In my experience the hotter girls who exude this "player vibe" tend to have a touch of former-ugly-duckling syndrome.

But as one prime suspect I was fucking for some months put it, "I've mostly chosen out of the guys who chose me, I need to get better at being the first to choose". I was about to take it personally but she had a running assumption of my notch count that was much higher than reality, so I figure she was almost qualifying -- I get to choose, shouldn't she? Rather than "I wouldn't have chosen you". I wasn't her type, but you wouldn't have known that from her bedroom performances. A true "convert via game" since I'm not the skinny male model hipster type she claimed to fancy.

[XPQ22]

(04-17-2016 07:43 PM)456 Wrote:  

But as one prime suspect I was fucking for some months put it, "I've mostly chosen out of the guys who chose me, I need to get better at being the first to choose". I was about to take it personally but she had a running assumption of my notch count that was much higher than reality, so I figure she was almost qualifying -- I get to choose, shouldn't she? Rather than "I wouldn't have chosen you". I wasn't her type, but you wouldn't have known that from her bedroom performances. A true "convert via game" since I'm not the skinny male model hipster type she claimed to fancy.

Couple months ago a girl walks up next to me at a bar and brushes me with her arm as she's ordering drinks. I talk with her for a few minutes and suddenly she looks me right in the eye, smiles and says "You know, you seem cool I guess, but I'm just not sure you're cute enough for me to be talking with."



I thought "Holy shit. Did I just get 'negged'? It's like she read some PUA material on the Internet from 2002."

Quote:

In my experience the hotter girls who exude this "player vibe" tend to have a touch of former-ugly-duckling syndrome.

Right on. They're the girls who had spots and goofy glasses in high school, then they get their braces off, start using Proactiv to clear up their skin, and wake up one day around age 26, look in the mirror and realize "Oh damn I'm a HB7." Then it's off to Instagram to accumulate followers and go out on the weekends to run "night game"!

[Kona]

(04-18-2016 02:15 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

(04-17-2016 07:43 PM)456 Wrote:  

But as one prime suspect I was fucking for some months put it, "I've mostly chosen out of the guys who chose me, I need to get better at being the first to choose". I was about to take it personally but she had a running assumption of my notch count that was much higher than reality, so I figure she was almost qualifying -- I get to choose, shouldn't she? Rather than "I wouldn't have chosen you". I wasn't her type, but you wouldn't have known that from her bedroom performances. A true "convert via game" since I'm not the skinny male model hipster type she claimed to fancy.

Couple months ago a girl walks up next to me at a bar and brushes me with her arm as she's ordering drinks. I talk with her for a few minutes and suddenly she looks me right in the eye, smiles and says "You know, you seem cool I guess, but I'm just not sure you're cute enough for me to be talking with."



I thought "Holy shit. Did I just get 'negged'? It's like she read some PUA material on the Internet from 2002."

Quote:

In my experience the hotter girls who exude this "player vibe" tend to have a touch of former-ugly-duckling syndrome.

Right on. They're the girls who had spots and goofy glasses in high school, then they get their braces off, start using Proactiv to clear up their skin, and wake up one day around age 26, look in the mirror and realize "Oh damn I'm a HB7." Then it's off to Instagram to accumulate followers and go out on the weekends to run "night game"!

Women that think they have " game" use it differently.

Like the situation above with the arm rubbing, better looking girls will go out with the goal of teasing and then REJECTING higher status men.

Its a mixture of the ugly duckling theory, and they want to look good in front of their friends. They could also be trying to validate themselves to some other guy.

I've been lucky enough to become friends with a number of pro surfers. Also, one of my younger brothers went to high school with a current NFL player. I've been out on the town with all of them.

Not only do these guys flaunt their massive amounts of money they have fame going for them. Mostly, they have solid game and on top of that they are all outrageously good looking. The NFl player especially in Hawaii, or the city he plays in, has girls waiting in line just to blow him. And he's huge.

Every now and then, these guys will come across some "oh no you didn't" type of girls when they try to game them. I was at a table at a club with the NFL guy, and these two girls were dancing like strippers just eye fucking both of us. They knew who he was. We motioned them over and got conversation going. One of them was very clear shortly onto it that his game might work on other girls but not her and blah blah blah. We just sent them on their way.

It was as if rejecting him was their goal.

Aloha!

[pialox]

Well this thread sure went off topic

[XPQ22]

(04-18-2016 04:58 PM)Kona Wrote:  

I've been lucky enough to become friends with a number of pro surfers. Also, one of my younger brothers went to high school with a current NFL player. I've been out on the town with all of them.

Not only do these guys flaunt their massive amounts of money they have fame going for them. Mostly, they have solid game and on top of that they are all outrageously good looking. The NFl player especially in Hawaii, or the city he plays in, has girls waiting in line just to blow him. And he's huge.

I dunno. I don't really think much about how big ballers run game. For me at least, it's like pondering what manufacturer built the helicopter some investment banker from the Gold Coast of Connecticut takes to the Hamptons each weekend. It's not my reality.

Quote:

It was as if rejecting him was their goal.

Fantastic! There's a bitch who didn't waste my time.

Anyway, to get the thread back on topic, "poly" girls of the "hard 6" variety are fast lays if you have an "asshole player" online dating profile, and can hammer away at them with tight text game over the course of a day or two until they become comfortable enough to meet. They only meet up with guys they really like. Very unlikely to be serial daters.

Got a date with one this week as a matter of fact. She wanted to chat with me on the phone for a bit before meeting up, which is a very good sign. Who give a shit about the psychology of why they're this or that. The only question should be about how you put your cock in them.

[Rush87]

It's fucking disgusting to be honest.

[John Michael Kane]

Being poly as a woman makes absolutely no sense from a biological standpoint. Women don't want to share alpha or beta resources with other women. Allowing their men such slack would reduce their own take of the loot. This poly nonsense is just another way for tinder whores to appear trendy and progressive. The only true poly women are so ugly they can't get men to commit to them. Attractive women demand exclusivity. Hot women lock down both alphas and betas, and if they can't, will usually move on at some point until they find one who will commit.

[RatInTheWoods]

Isn't what most of the PUAs are practicing in here anyway?

I mean you are banging multiple chicks who are also banging (lots more than you) multiple guys?

This is why I prefer to go LTR, I don't want a box of assorted creams.....

[XPQ22]

(04-19-2016 02:38 AM)John Michael Kane Wrote:  

Being poly as a woman makes absolutely no sense from a biological standpoint. Women don't want to share alpha or beta resources with other women. Allowing their men such slack would reduce their own take of the loot. This poly nonsense is just another way for tinder whores to appear trendy and progressive. The only true poly women are so ugly they can't get men to commit to them. Attractive women demand exclusivity. Hot women lock down both alphas and betas, and if they can't, will usually move on at some point until they find one who will commit.

Some of the things you say may have a kernel of truth to them, but in the main these seem like very "absolutist" statements based on pop evo-psychology.

Biology and culture have been so entwined for so long now that I think it's really difficult to say with any certainty whether some particular behavior is biologically driven or culturally driven, or if that behavior "makes sense" from a purely biological standpoint. It's probably always a bit of both - men and women do all sorts of things all the time that don't "make sense" from a purely biological "humans as best fitness offspring propagation machines" standpoint, but make more sense when you realize that's not the only system they're operating under.

[gringoed]

It's been a long time since I've posted in this forum but I wanted to add to this thread, since there's a TON of misinformation about polyamory being said here. I'm polyamorous, have been for about 4 years. It started when I was spinning plates and wanted to get serious with one of my women while not losing the others. Polyamory is the solution for men who value freedom and variety, as well as honesty and love. It's definitely not for everybody, and it takes lots of work, but the payoffs are beautiful. I can talk to my lovers about having feelings for other women and about sleeping with other women, without shame or fear of being judged. In my experience, there's a new level of trust and connection when you're able to literally talk about anything and everything without fear. Also, threesomes are fun.

I'm currently in a poly relationship with a woman that's usually the most beautiful woman at the party. Being poly with her was my idea, but it works for both of us. What she gets out of it is a greater feeling of security: her fear of being dumped and alone is lessened by having the love of multiple men. Her secondary partner, by the way, is a good friend of mine who I love and trust completely. As I've mentioned above, what I get out of it is freedom to love and fuck without keeping secrets or jeopardizing a fulfilling relationship. I also trust her completely because she is encouraged to tell me everything and knows that it won't end our relationship if she has feelings for other men. If I put an unrealistic expectation on a woman to only have eyes for me forever, I would be worried that she would cheat on me some day.

If you're reading this thread and see all the critical viewpoints, keep in mind this forum is extremely conservative leaning and I don't see a response from anyone else that's actually living this lifestyle. Many of the opinions I read were misinformed. I will check back to this thread and respond to anyone that has any questions or criticisms about it. I think a public discussion would be interesting here, as I want to be challenged so that I can grow.

[Bucephalus]

(07-09-2018 08:01 PM)gringoed Wrote:  

I think a public discussion would be interesting here, as I want to be challenged so that I can grow.

Thanks for the contribution grigoed, agree with the challenge for growth.

Over the years you could say I've been in open relationships. When I notice a plate starting to invest too heavily or set LTR frames, or if they bring up the "DTR" talk,  I define it for them as open. Sometimes they choose to keep seeing me, sometimes they leave. The most important thing in my opinion is honesty. If a girl is looking to settle down with me but I'm not interested, I'm not going to lead her on.

One thing is clear though: I don't "talk to my lovers about having other feelings for other women and about sleeping with other women," which seems to be more specifically what the "polyamory" vogue is about.

In principle, I have no objections to people that want to structure their relationships that way. Live and let live. In practice, the reasons I don't seek this type of relationships are:

1. Time and resources are limited.
As you already appreciate: "it takes a lot of work". The reason for the work is that sexual jealousy is both a very real and strong emotion for men and women. Yes, it can be overcome, but not without a lot of maintenance – and of multiple relationships. The cost/benefit ratio I think is very much skewed against its favor.


2. There are no added benefits.

(07-09-2018 08:01 PM)gringoed Wrote:  

Polyamory is the solution for men who value freedom and variety... ...the payoffs are beautiful. I can talk to my lovers about having feelings for other women and about sleeping with other women, without shame or fear of being judged. In my experience, there's a new level of trust and connection when you're able to literally talk about anything and everything without fear

I want to challenge you on this. Being honest is what deepens trust and connection, and it can be had without polyamory. So can threesomes. And freedom. And variety. And is talking about your feelings for other women really such a big payoff? There are so many other deep and interesting things to talk about. Men who enjoy their relationships aren't ashamed or afraid to talk about their desires. But when it comes to other women, they refrain out of respect for their partner and the relationship.


3. It's suboptimal for society
I don't doubt that it's POSSIBLE to structure society from the standpoint of polyamory. But again, time and resources are limited, and the complexities of the legal and justice systems would be multiplied. It's probably not ideal for kids either.

A close relative of mine is a hippie leftist. He and his girl had been doing the polyamory thing for years. Now they have a house, saving up to afford for kids... reality has hit and they've reined it in. Now, maybe their polyamorous years help build up a deeper level of trust between them, but I'm skeptical of that. They could have instead been working for their future.

4. It's just a trend
Finally, as has already been pointed out in this thread, much of being "polyamorous" is virtue–signalling. Suggesting one is above evolutionary psychological instincts and open-minded to the point of accepting any sort or relationship arrangement, when really it is an euphemism for self-indulgent promiscuity. (Not that I am accusing you of virtue-signalling, nor am I necessarily against anyone's right to self-indulgent promiscuity... just calling the trend as I see it). I've dated girls who tell me they're "polyamorous" or "used to be a bit of a slut" clearly testing to see whether they are free from judgement in my company or not. They needn't bother telling me – it's pretty obvious.

Phin

[EndsExpect]

(04-10-2016 01:11 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

1. Why get married when you can easily have casual dating relationships and mini-LTRs?
2. What kind of man would let his wife, or even his girlfriend, have sexual relationships with other men and be cool with it?
3. What kind of man would let his woman be seen around town with other men?
Polyamory is the most pathetic thing I've ever seen.

First... this shit has been going on since the dawn of man, but it really took off with the introduction of birth control. Like many things we are constantly bitching about in this forum... it's a technology change that has greatly impacted human behavior and culture.

1. Some guys don't have the SMV to constantly attract decent looking women. Further more it's much easier to raise children as a father in a marriage than as a baby daddy.

2. Several different kinds of men. Beta doormats, bisexual guys, in the closet gay men, and higher SMV men who are simply bored with their wives. No matter how hot a woman is... at some point most guys will get bored fucking her.

3. Being seen around town isn't what it used to be. When you lived in a town of 1,000 people this was a big deal. We now live in towns of 10,000,000 and frankly few will gossip. Even if they do most of these guys don't care.

Swingers are one thing. I've found the vast majority of actual cucks... and I have met a few... are actually gay men. When they watch their wife sucking some dick... they imagine themselves doing it.

[SeaFM]

A former FB of mine has come out as "polyamorous".

She is in her early 40's and childless. Can't tell you enough times how badly she doesn't want kids. Routinely gets pump & dumped yet somehow mentally flips the script so she's the one doing it.

So in a nutshell, can't get a man to commit to her, eggs are dried up, gets used like a fuck doll by endless men, but has decided that she is polyamorous.

Hamsters are a hell of a drug.

[JayGould]

(04-10-2016 02:42 PM)Ice Wrote:  

Yeah when you have been married for 5 years and have had sex 1000 times I think for many people it's not a problem having another guy fuck their wife once in a while. And the guy can fuck other girls too, or hire an escort or whatever. I don't see a problem with it. Some people just get tired of fucking the same person for years, that's only natural. But if they have a deep connection and want to stay together long term, maybe have a family, why not just being open about fucking other people. For me that makes sense.

That mindset right there is the definition of a cuck. Sorry bro.

Obviously as the man in the household you should have side chicks and not be faithful to your wife. But your wife must always be faithful to you. Relationships should not be equal. You as the man provide and should have the freedom to have some fun on the side every once in a while. Your wife is there to serve the needs of you and your children. Her happiness should stem from this, not from sexual pleasure and excitement. As a man, you have different sexual needs than a woman. You have an innate need to screw as many women as possible. Your wife does not have this innate need and can be completely happy and content without new dick on the side.

[SeaFM]

I agree with this ^^^

Having chicks on the side is not really a big deal for a man. It's more or less 3rd party masturbation. I think it's extremely rare for a man to get emotionally attached to a side piece.

The problem is when your side piece wants to become your main. That is when the drama and trouble starts.

[gringoed]

@Phineas: Thank you for your intelligent criticisms. I'd like to engage with you more. I'll respond to your points one by one:

"Time and resources are limited"

That's very true! I've come to see polyamory as a type of hobby or game, and it depends on what you value. If your career is your main focus and the end goal of learning game is to get pussy, then polyamory is not for you. If, however, you are the kind of person that enjoys constantly growing in the area of relationships, wants to design a life that is unique, and exciting, and want your actions to be congruent with values of love and freedom, then it's a hobby worth considering.

Let me give you an example of growing. You mentioned jealousy. You're 100% right it's real for everybody. But have you noticed that if you're with an unattractive girl and she leaves you for another man, it's not as big a deal. Why is that? It's because you know that you can replace her with someone better. So, jealousy comes from a scarcity mentality. Fear of loss, due to the uncertainty of being able to replace her with someone as good or better. Sounds like a case of "oneitis" right? Jealousy is usually rooted in fear of losing someone and having to find someone else as good, which is rooted in insecurity about your market value. Why are you insecure about that? Is it a self-esteem issue, or has your market value gone down, or have you become overly attached to your partner?

Jealousy is a bad feeling for sure, but it gives us insight on how to grow. When you approach a girl and get rejected, you feel shitty right? Does that mean you should stop approaching? Of course not, the emotions can be used to make you better. It's the same thing.


"But when it comes to other women, they refrain out of respect for their partner and the relationship."

This might seem like an innocent lie, or a white lie, but it's this pretending that causes us deep feelings of shame, guilt, and distrust. This is also how the path to getting cheated on starts. I don't know about you, but cheating would be a total deal-breaker for me. If you're only doing relationships that last a few weeks or months, then you can get away with "don't ask, don't tell" or staying happily monogamous. But if you're trying to go longer term, then eventually the pretending will result in heartbreak if you're discovered, or being in a guilt-laden relationship if you're not. I don't understand how people can purposely deceive their lovers and still feel like there's real love there...


"And is talking about your feelings for other women really such a big payoff?"

For me, it's a feeling of total acceptance that helps me love myself more, and helps me go through the world with joy and confidence and freedom. It's a feeling of liberation, that there's nothing wrong with me or what I'm doing. My friends give me that too, but there's a part of me that wants that feeling from my lover.


"It's suboptimal for society"

That's an tough one! I would agree that it doesn't fit into our current system very well. Marriage laws and all that . But I would argue that our current system is fucked up! We all agree that single-parenthood is a huge problem with our society. We know that a two parent household is better than one. Why wouldn't a three parent household be better than two? In ancient times, men would have several wives. I'd imagine the more parents you have raising the children, the more attention the children will receive. Personally, I'm very turned off by the idea of having children because I know how much that would infringe on my freedom to travel and be solitary. If there were more adults involved, then I would have that freedom.

I know on this forum, the consensus seems to be that the solution to our cultural problems is to move backwards. I believe that this is no longer an option. Realistically we know it's just not going to happen. We should look at new solutions.


"virtual-signaling"

You're right that a lot of people call themselves "polyamorous" as a form of showing how progressive they are. People also do it to give themselves moral highground or to justify their reckless behavior. They give polyamory a bad name. The word "Polyamory" means multiple loving relationships. Slutting around isn't polyamory.

Is it a fad? Maybe, but I don't think so. People said that gay pride was a fad. It's true that coming out as gay is hip and trendy in ultra-liberal circles. When that cool factor dies down, will there be any gays left? Of course there will. Culturally, we are in a time of breaking all the rules and seeing which ones stick. Polyamory is the next stop on the train tracks. People will come out as polyamorous just to look cool, sure. I think some people will try it on and decide it's not for them, others will and love it.



@JayGould

I completely agree that double standards are sometimes good. Life is not fair, and it never will be. Why obsess over fairness, instead of looking at our actual needs.

"But your wife must always be faithful to you. "

You can make her promise this, but what happens if your wife has feelings for another man? Attraction is not a choice. She is supposed to try to repress it or hide it, right? The result of this is she will either feel shame for something natural, or feel resentment towards you for making her feel negative emotions. I've learned from experience that it's impossible to bottle feelings up without consequences. The consequences in this situation is that she will start feeling more distant from you, and start craving the intimacy of a truly loving relationship. If and when she cheats on you, she will be emotionally more bonded with her secret lover because she's able to admit things to him that she can't with you. I don't know the statistics but I know a very high % of married people cheat, even though they are all promising to be faithful. The reason people cheat is that we set an unnatural standard that's impossible to sustain for a lifetime.

[Bucephalus]

Hi Gringoed

Thanks for your responses, interesting. Good to have different viewpoints and I'd be surprised if there aren't at least a handful of guys on here interested in how you run your day-to-day.

Ultimately I think we agree on the pros/cons of your definition of polyamory and simply have different preferences. As to the future of polyamory, who knows? I think that for most guys though, polyamory as a hobby / lifestyle choice is not ideal. I've left a few rebuttals to your responses below.

Cheers

Phin

(07-10-2018 05:17 PM)gringoed Wrote:  

That's very true! I've come to see polyamory as a type of hobby or game, and it depends on what you value. If your career is your main focus and the end goal of learning game is to get pussy, then polyamory is not for you

You imply that without polyamory the sole purpose of game is "getting pussy". You don't need me to challenge that assumption, just thought I would clarify.

(07-10-2018 05:17 PM)gringoed Wrote:  

…Jealousy is usually rooted in fear of losing someone and having to find someone else as good, which is rooted in insecurity about your market value… have you become overly attached to your partner?

I don't disagree that polyamory (or any relationship for that matter) can help you grow and overcome negative emotions associated with interpersonal dynamics. However polyamory does not have an exclusive mandate on personal growth, whether within relationships or through other means. People grow through challenging careers, socially networking, friend, family, travel, hobbies, and spiritual means. Jealousy is interesting to talk about. I think for most guys repeatedly exposing yourself to situations that are likely to induce intense jealousy is actually more masochistic than a vehicle for growth. But as you say, that depends on your values and goals. If you wish to run a polyamory harem, then dealing with repeated exposure to jealousy may be very important. If you have other interests in life, you might be less interested in overcoming jealousy to that degree – again time and resources are limited. Finally, attachment to anything is possible. You can get attached to a polyamorous lifestyle, for example (and feel insecure without it).

(07-10-2018 05:17 PM)gringoed Wrote:  

This might seem like an innocent lie, or a white lie, but it's this pretending that causes us deep feelings of shame, guilt, and distrust. This is also how the path to getting cheated on starts…

I'm talking about respect in a relationship, not deceptive behaviour. You can verbalize all of your desires and dreams to your partners if you like… but that presupposes that every image and thought passing through your mind has some value to them and the relationship. I disagree; we have a social filter for a reason.

(07-10-2018 05:17 PM)gringoed Wrote:  

For me, it's a feeling of total acceptance that helps me love myself more, and helps me go through the world with joy and confidence and freedom. It's a feeling of liberation, that there's nothing wrong with me or what I'm doing. My friends give me that too, but there's a part of me that wants that feeling from my lover

And a part of you that feels insecure if it's not from a lover? I'm playing devil's advocate here. My point is people find solace and acceptance and liberation in different things. This is a matter of preference. Due to the nature of female/male psychology, I would say most guys do BETTER with women when their source of acceptance/liberation comes from an external source – surfing, their business, spiritual pursuits, etc. Again, I think polyamory is workable, it's just not the only option (and in my opinion, not the best).

(07-10-2018 05:17 PM)gringoed Wrote:  

Why wouldn't a three parent household be better than two?

You've just multiplied the level of complexity
Higher probability of interpersonal conflicts
More time needed for relationship maintenance
Less time for kids, higher chance they are exposed to conflict

(07-10-2018 05:17 PM)gringoed Wrote:  

I'd imagine the more parents you have raising the children, the more attention the children will receive. Personally, I'm very turned off by the idea of having children because I know how much that would infringe on my freedom to travel and be solitary. If there were more adults involved, then I would have that freedom

Not saying it's not possible. Just more work. You can have other responsible adults who you're not having sex with to help out (the kids' grandparents, aunts/uncles, friends).

(07-10-2018 05:17 PM)gringoed Wrote:  

Culturally, we are in a time of breaking all the rules and seeing which ones stick. Polyamory is the next stop on the train tracks. People will come out as polyamorous just to look cool, sure. I think some people will try it on and decide it's not for them, others will and love i

Tradition vs progressive values is a topic for another day. I think the most probable way polyamory becomes mainstream is through widespread massive muslim immigration and the downfall of Western civilisation as we know it.

[gringoed]

Hi Phin,

I really appreciate your level-headed criticisms. I agree with most of what you said, it's not the only way to grow, and it's not for everybody. I'm also surprised that nobody on this forum lives a poly lifestyle. I came from the seduction scene, and this seems like such an obvious step up. Just like game, being poly is about using your sex drive and desire for love as fuel to become a better man. It's about having your cake and eating it too (having a stable loving relationship, with sexual variety as well), without sacrificing your honor by deceiving or cheating.


"And a part of you that feels insecure if it's not from a lover? I'm playing devil's advocate here."

Good observation, perhaps it is related to an insecurity. I'll process that more, thanks. The way I look at it is I like to feel light. What makes me feel heavy is keeping secrets, and trying to remember who knows what. I want everybody in my life to get the full uncensored me, take it or leave it. Then my friends don't have to worry about saying something they shouldnt when they're around my girlfriend. And I know I never have to censor myself. It helps me live in the moment.


"You've just multiplied the level of complexity
Higher probability of interpersonal conflicts"

Maybe you're right, more complexity, and interpersonal conflicts. But perhaps in some areas there would be less conflict. If you look at the common sources of conflict in a marriage: financial strain, overburdened with responsibility, sacrificing freedom, infidelity. All of these issues should theoretically be less of a problem in a poly household.


"You can have other responsible adults who you're not having sex with to help out (the kids' grandparents, aunts/uncles, friends). "

I think it's really really lovely when that happens. In today's reality, sadly, this isn't always an option.


"I think the most probable way polyamory becomes mainstream is through widespread massive muslim immigration and the downfall of Western civilisation as we know it."

Ha, wow. I've never heard anyone say that the Muslim way of life is polyamorous. Polyamory is about freedom. Islam is about restriction, especially for women. I get your point, though, that polyamory isn't close to being mainstream. All the ignorance about polyamory just in this thread proves that you're right.

[gringoed]

(04-10-2016 01:11 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

It confuses the shit out of me on many levels...

1. Why get married when you can easily have casual dating relationships and mini-LTRs?

2. What kind of man would let his wife, or even his girlfriend, have sexual relationships with other men and be cool with it?

3. What kind of man would let his woman be seen around town with other men?

It appears to me that the women like the stability and appearance of having a husband, but can't actually get off the cock carousel. So they then convince their husbands that this is how modern relationships work, sex positive, feminism, etc. Another observation - all the guys in these relationships are very liberal.

My opinion on this is that 1) men are becoming more feminine and are afraid to say "no" to their women and to other men trying to fuck their woman; and 2) we live in a society where increasingly everyone feels they should be able to do whatever they want to do.

Polyamory is the most pathetic thing I've ever seen.

Hi Hank, I thought I would respond out of respect to you for starting this discussion.

1. I agree with you about marriage. The whole thing doesn't make sense. But if you put yourself in the shoes of someone who is already married, and for some reason wants to stay married and not cheat... polyamory is one way of having your needs for excitement and variety met.

2. What kind of man? Hmmm. I bet I'm going to touch a nerve here. Let's say you're out for a walk and see a beautiful flower, you can either pick it and take it home (and of course, watch it die), or you can appreciate its fragrance and beauty without taking it home to make it yours. Yes, others will stop and smell it, and enjoy it but that's ok. It's a gesture of love for both the flower and the other people if you leave it. When we make a friend, do we ask our new friend to stop being friends with other people? Of course not! So why are things so different when it comes to a sexual lover?

You may say that STD's are a concern. Make it clear that she should wear a condom 100% of the time with other men.

You may say that it's natural or consistent with evolution to be possessive of our lovers. What I hear with this is trying to justify or rationalize fears. Our closest relative in the animal kingdom is bonobo apes (along with chimps), which practice free sex. Ok, so we're human not apes. So what's important to you in terms of evolution? If you want to only raise your genetic kids, just get a DNA test and don't raise kids that aren't yours. You should be extra sure to do this if you've created a marriage where your woman is not free to talk to you about her desires. If you believe your genetic duty is to father many children with a variety of women, and want them to be raised with a father in the house to give them the best chance of success, having several lovers that will bear your children fulfills this evolutionary need better than any one woman can do.

You may say that you feel negative emotions at the thought of someone else having sex with your wife. Those emotions are usually related to fear, such as the fear of losing her. The fear comes from an insecurity. Well what is the insecurity? That you're not good enough in bed? That your wife doesn't love you fully? That if she leaves, your future will suck? These emotions are real, and the way they're commonly handled is by making rules forbidding extramarital play, rather than working on the root problem. The problem with making rules like these is that they don't work. You don't need to look at statistics to know how much people cheat, it's pervasive. People don't like following rules, especially ones that remove excitement and pleasure. So the end result of not dealing with your shit and instead enforcing rules is you'll eventually make your wife miserable and/or get cheated on. So here's an alternative, let your bird fly out of its cage and see if she comes back to you. Yes, sometimes the bird will fly away, but if it comes back, it will touch your heart because it chose you again from a place of freedom. When she feels desire for another man, instead of making her pretend it's not happening or making her feel guilt, let her feel free to tell you without fear of consequences. (Yes, this will be hard for the ego to handle). Then you can discover and work on the problem, which may cause her to lose her desire for the other man. If it doesnt, you can let her explore that connection, and now you're still the one in control of the relationship, and she isn't betraying you. So to answer your question about what kind of man would let his lover be free to sleep around? Sure, some are betas who have no balls. The other type is a man who is very secure in himself and his relationship, and walks the walk regarding his higher values of freedom (for himself and his loved ones) and honor (no dishonesty or deception).


3. I don't know what it's like to live in a small town, but I'd imagine it's quite judgey and gossipy. Sounds pretty horrible.

[droughtmeat]

if you're not looking to get married, then I don't see how you could benefit from polyamory. You've been in a relationship with your girlfriend for 2 years and want to start letting other guys bang her? For what?

If you're married, it could make more sense. The passion will peter out sooner or later and those supressed desires and emotions can lead to feelings of resentment and sometimes even depression. Sometimes simply having sex with another person and letting your partner do the same could actually save your marriage, allow your children to grow up with both parents etc.

But open relationships / polyamory scenarios can also add a lot of pressure. You can't simply gain 20 to 40lbs of fat, neither can your wife, if you and especially she can simply opt for a more attractive man. You have to bring your A-game in terms of looks and personality for a very long period of time. The couch potato lifestyle won't work in this scenario. Whether that's good or bad I don't know. On the one hand, it can make you force on trivial and superficial things, on the other hand, both partners stay sexually very desirable and it CAN be healthy.

Yet, in most cases I assume it's just a good-willed beta, who knows that he's a provider and the only way to keep his wife happy is to let her have sex with other guys, the guys she truly desires. She would rather break up with him, but since he has dedicated his whole life to her, she decides to keep him around

[gringoed]

I'm noticing a common theme in this thread is only looking at the woman's sexual freedom. In most cases that I've seen, being polyamorous is the man's idea in order to fulfill his needs without sacrificing his values. Many more women than men are content in a monogamous relationship. I suspect that the cases that go on TV or internet articles are skewed more towards when it's the woman getting more variety than her man, either because the media is controlled by progressives pushing female empowerment, or that they enjoy triggering conservatives.

[Feldeinsamkeit]

(07-11-2018 03:34 AM)gringoed Wrote:  

I'm noticing a common theme in this thread is only looking at the woman's sexual freedom. In most cases that I've seen, being polyamorous is the man's idea in order to fulfill his needs without sacrificing his values. Many more women than men are content in a monogamous relationship. I suspect that the cases that go on TV or internet articles are skewed more towards when it's the woman getting more variety than her man, either because the media is controlled by progressives pushing female empowerment, or that they enjoy triggering conservatives.

But there's an overwhelming reason for this. The default state of the average-looking woman, hell, even below-average women, is for her to have incalculably more options on the sexual market place simply by dint of her genitalia. What this means within the context of converting a hitherto monogamous relationship into a polyamorous one is that the man is not going to have anyway near the same number - and quality, I might add - of options as his LTR/wife will enjoy, unless he's West Indian Archie or some other 6" 4, ripped, baller dude who's already killing it with women. If he's your average-looking Joe Blow without laser-guided, on-point game skills, he's going to get badly burned from such an arrangement. From my own researches on this topic, it's almost always the woman pushing for this and it's easy to understand why. The broad who pulls this sort of stunt over her LTR simp maximizes her hypergamous instinct for alpha seed, whilst still getting to keep the comfort blanket of her beta soyboy who may also be playing his dutiful provider role of paying for her shit. He, on the other hand, will likely be doing nothing more than whacking it off at home playing World of Warcraft while his slut is getting drilled by the bouncer from the club. Upon returning from her polyamorous tryst, such a fine specimen of a lady would probably "let" him kiss her to taste the other guy's cum, thinking she was doing her soyboy a favour. But the worst of all is that the woman will suddenly get a taste for much higher quality guys and this, coupled with her deep-down disgust at her live-in soyboy's voluntary acquiescence in his own cuckoldry, will lead to the sex spigot from his "girlfriend" or "wife" getting choked off to intermittent dribbling oases of relief; more likely than not these will be rewards conditional on favours that's he's had to perform in advance.

Guys on here really need to wake up to this shit before it's too late, since it's yet another canary in the coal mine of a collapsing sexual market place for men in the West and a more general indicator that the feminine imperative is truly entering its triumphalist phase, in which the 95% of the men are little more bag carriers for women and who are being trained to consider themselves fortunate for if they're able to grab the odd sexual scrap or two that falls from Her Highness's Banquet Table once in a blue moon.

[EndsExpect]

(07-10-2018 05:17 PM)gringoed Wrote:  

Let me give you an example of growing. You mentioned jealousy. You're 100% right it's real for everybody. But have you noticed that if you're with an unattractive girl and she leaves you for another man, it's not as big a deal. Why is that? It's because you know that you can replace her with someone better. So, jealousy comes from a scarcity mentality. Fear of loss, due to the uncertainty of being able to replace her with someone as good or better. Sounds like a case of "oneitis" right? Jealousy is usually rooted in fear of losing someone and having to find someone else as good, which is rooted in insecurity about your market value. Why are you insecure about that? Is it a self-esteem issue, or has your market value gone down, or have you become overly attached to your partner?
Jealousy is a bad feeling for sure, but it gives us insight on how to grow. When you approach a girl and get rejected, you feel shitty right? Does that mean you should stop approaching? Of course not, the emotions can be used to make you better. It's the same thing.

This is incorrect. Jealousy does not come from scarcity mentality. Jealousy is caused by emotional investment. If you are emotionally invested in a fat ugly woman it will hurt when she leaves you just as much as a hot woman. Most men value looks and therefore become more emotionally invested in attractive females.

I was married to an attractive woman. I knew that I could get an even better looking woman if I chose. However, my lack of scarcity mentality did not prevent jealousy.

What you are going to find consistently with Poly couples... is that they have emotionally detached from one another. This is especially true with the women involved. I've fucked a number of poly women and I would describe their feelings towards their husbands as luke warm. Not because the feelings are not there, but because the feelings have changed to a different kind of love... a non romantic kind of love. If you fuck a woman in a poly relationship enough... she will eventually want to leave her husband for you. When this doesn't happen, it's typically because she values some lifestyle points above everything else. My personal experience is that 3 in 4 will be willing to burn down their entire lives to get a man that fulfills them.

My point is this... most guys in poly relationships have their hamster going like the energizer bunny.

[gringoed]

@EndsExpect:

I dont think we disagree with each other. Emotional investment is related to scarcity mentality. If you're emotionally invested, you're letting your emotions guide you. Emotions are irrational. The strongest emotion is fear, which will certainly trump your rational thoughts of knowing that you have options outside of her.


@Feld

I understand everything you're saying. And you're right. When that happens it's sad for the soyboy.

What I'm trying to point out is that polyamory is a wide umbrella, and that those cases are not the typical ones. You are thinking that polyamory is just about average women getting more sexual options while her beta husband provides for her. In my experience, those cases are extremely rare. Perhaps the people on this forum have a skewed view since the exposure you get if you're not poly is the chance to fuck married poly women. Maybe that's your only exposure. How would you be exposed to a poly relationship where the man is out fucking other women with permission, while his wife is taking care of the kids? How would you be exposed to a poly relationship where a man is living with multiple girlfriends?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD1fcskY9sw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvYc5XO5KPs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2ieQgHBJpQ

In my experience, polyamory is generally just as much about a man's needs, if not more. In those videos above, do you still feel the man in the situation is pathetic? I don't, I see them as being true masters of game and emotional intelligence.



If this thread is supposed to be about ranting about the downfall of western civilization and how we're all victims to it, then go ahead and keep venting. This thread could also be an opportunity to open your mind a little to options that provide a man with getting all his needs met while being in alignment with his higher values.

[DonnyGately]

Been here since the Dawn of Man.

It was huge in the 1970s, and Sixties. Key parties, Yankees switching wives and keeping the new ones instead, ad infinitum.