[Samseau]

(03-14-2016 12:36 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Aren't most products we consume in the West, made from sweatshops and slave labour in the East?

Isn't this how the Corporations gained more power!

Yes, and tarrifs can stop the sweatshops.

[rudebwoy]

Tariffs (taxes) is just the Government (mafia) cut of the action.

On a micro level, I buy American Apparel t-shirts for $28 which are made in Los Angeles. For $8 I can buy a similar t-shirt from H&M, which is made in a sweatshop in Bangladesh.

Do you think tariffs will stop this?

[porscheguy]

They may not eliminate sweatshops entirely, but by raising the bar you force the sweat shop to compete at a higher level where they have to face off against western production.

[rudebwoy]

^How can you compete when the sweatshop workers are earning less than a $2 per day. There are a plethora of countries you can setup shop in and pay these wages.

China and India have populations well over a billion each, child labour is huge in these places. One worker quits, then there are ten in line to replace them.

[porscheguy]

When the price goes high enough, it becomes lucrative for a US producer get in on the game, and produce the item here. He doesn't have to pay a tariff.

The $8 dollar shirt costs $4 to make in the sweatshop. A 50% tariff raises the price of the shirt to $12. Yes the tariff is passed to the consumer, but so are all the other costs. But with the tariff, the shirt now costs $8 to produce. You realize you can produce the shirt in the US for $7 and not have to deal with the tariff. You can sell the shirt for $12 and make more profit.

[rudebwoy]

Who's going to make that shirt?

The Mexican or the prison worker.

[rudebwoy]

Convince the American public to accept Serfdom.

http://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2016/03/11/...t-serfdom/

[porscheguy]

(03-14-2016 02:37 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Who's going to make that shirt?

The Mexican or the prison worker.

It doesn't much matter who works at the factory. You're making an appeal to emotion and I'm not interested. The t-shirt from American apparel that retails for $28 probably has a production cost in the same ballpark as our theoretical US made shirt from H&M that retails for $12. The reason the American Apparel shirt costs so much more is because they're in the business of selling nationalism with a free t-shirt. They're exploiting the fact that US consumers have been conditioned for years to believe that labor costs are so much higher here than abroad, and therefore they can charge astronomical prices to cover the supposed extra labor costs.

[getdownonit]

http://www.axs.com/news/120-kanye-west-p...tely-17243

Kanye West plain white t shirt sold out for $120 per shirt. Doubt that had anything to do with the labor cost.

Sometimes brands (like american apparel in this case or apple for iphones) aren't trying to offer the lowest prices

[rudebwoy]

(03-14-2016 03:25 PM)porscheguy Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 02:37 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Who's going to make that shirt?

The Mexican or the prison worker.

It doesn't much matter who works at the factory. You're making an appeal to emotion and I'm not interested. The t-shirt from American apparel that retails for $28 probably has a production cost in the same ballpark as our theoretical US made shirt from H&M that retails for $12. The reason the American Apparel shirt costs so much more is because they're in the business of selling nationalism with a free t-shirt. They're exploiting the fact that US consumers have been conditioned for years to believe that labor costs are so much higher here than abroad, and therefore they can charge astronomical prices to cover the supposed extra labor costs.

So you are saying Labour costs in the US can match places like Bangladesh?

http://www.waronwant.org/sweatshops-bangladesh

[porscheguy]

(03-14-2016 03:29 PM)getdownonit Wrote:  

http://www.axs.com/news/120-kanye-west-p...tely-17243

Kanye West plain white t shirt sold out for $120 per shirt. Doubt that had anything to do with the labor cost.

Sometimes brands (like american apparel in this case or apple for iphones) aren't trying to offer the lowest prices

The Kanye West shirt was selling a connection to Kanye, with a free t-shirt as proof.

Like I said previously, American Apparel sells nationalism.

You could say that comparing a shirt from h&m to one from American Apparel is comparing apples to oranges.

Companies like Apple and Samsung aren't selling their products with concern for labor costs. They sell their stuff at price points.

FWIW, on pricier items like consumer electronics, labor costs have less impact on the bottom line, and tariffs can really impact where a company sets up shop.

[porscheguy]

(03-14-2016 03:33 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

So you are saying Labour costs in the US can match places like Bangladesh?

http://www.waronwant.org/sweatshops-bangladesh

You don't have to match the labor cost of Bangladesh. You just have to make more profit.

[Blaster]

(03-14-2016 03:33 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 03:25 PM)porscheguy Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 02:37 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Who's going to make that shirt?

The Mexican or the prison worker.

It doesn't much matter who works at the factory. You're making an appeal to emotion and I'm not interested. The t-shirt from American apparel that retails for $28 probably has a production cost in the same ballpark as our theoretical US made shirt from H&M that retails for $12. The reason the American Apparel shirt costs so much more is because they're in the business of selling nationalism with a free t-shirt. They're exploiting the fact that US consumers have been conditioned for years to believe that labor costs are so much higher here than abroad, and therefore they can charge astronomical prices to cover the supposed extra labor costs.

So you are saying Labour costs in the US can match places like Bangladesh?

http://www.waronwant.org/sweatshops-bangladesh

I think he's saying there's more to production cost than labor; and that the price of goods are set by market demand not production cost.

[Samseau]

(03-14-2016 01:53 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Tariffs (taxes) is just the Government (mafia) cut of the action.

On a micro level, I buy American Apparel t-shirts for $28 which are made in Los Angeles. For $8 I can buy a similar t-shirt from H&M, which is made in a sweatshop in Bangladesh.

Do you think tariffs will stop this?

Yes. Just raise the tariff. A good tariff should be raised in proportion to the level of currency manipulation. For example, China pegs their currency at 6:1, so increase tariffs to counter at least half of that, say 300%, and have the tariff increase 50% every year until China agrees to let their currency float.

Likewise the same thing could be done to Bangladesh. In 4 years that $8 t-shirt will cost 200% more, and American Apparel is now the cheapest in town.

Also, the taxes collected from these sales will be used to pay for the enormous debts the USA has, and it will be primarily the rich and well off who pay for it since they are the ones who do most of the consuming.

[Libertas]

(03-14-2016 03:49 PM)porscheguy Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 03:29 PM)getdownonit Wrote:  

http://www.axs.com/news/120-kanye-west-p...tely-17243

Kanye West plain white t shirt sold out for $120 per shirt. Doubt that had anything to do with the labor cost.

Sometimes brands (like american apparel in this case or apple for iphones) aren't trying to offer the lowest prices

The Kanye West shirt was selling a connection to Kanye, with a free t-shirt as proof.

Like I said previously, American Apparel sells nationalism.

You could say that comparing a shirt from h&m to one from American Apparel is comparing apples to oranges.

Companies like Apple and Samsung aren't selling their products with concern for labor costs. They sell their stuff at price points.

FWIW, on pricier items like consumer electronics, labor costs have less impact on the bottom line, and tariffs can really impact where a company sets up shop.

I read somewhere (forgot where, unfortunately) that the biggest sell of "free" trade, that is, that you can buy products for much cheaper than if they were made in America is really bogus, because they sell the product at a markup that puts it basically on par with what they'd sell it for anyway even if it was made here.

The lower labor costs just allow them to pocket the difference and increase their bottom lines.

[rudebwoy]

(03-14-2016 03:49 PM)porscheguy Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 03:29 PM)getdownonit Wrote:  

http://www.axs.com/news/120-kanye-west-p...tely-17243

Kanye West plain white t shirt sold out for $120 per shirt. Doubt that had anything to do with the labor cost.

Sometimes brands (like american apparel in this case or apple for iphones) aren't trying to offer the lowest prices

The Kanye West shirt was selling a connection to Kanye, with a free t-shirt as proof.

Like I said previously, American Apparel sells nationalism.

You could say that comparing a shirt from h&m to one from American Apparel is comparing apples to oranges.

Companies like Apple and Samsung aren't selling their products with concern for labor costs. They sell their stuff at price points.

FWIW, on pricier items like consumer electronics, labor costs have less impact on the bottom line, and tariffs can really impact where a company sets up shop.

Really??

https://www.chinafile.com/reporting-opin...ss-foxconn

http://www.businessinsider.com/china-lab...ers-2013-7

[kamoz]

A very simple and straightforward solution that should have been enacted a long time ago. Unfortunately this can never happen until the yoke of control by corporations/banks is removed from our government. "Separation between state and corporation."

[porscheguy]

(03-14-2016 04:19 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 03:49 PM)porscheguy Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 03:29 PM)getdownonit Wrote:  

http://www.axs.com/news/120-kanye-west-p...tely-17243

Kanye West plain white t shirt sold out for $120 per shirt. Doubt that had anything to do with the labor cost.

Sometimes brands (like american apparel in this case or apple for iphones) aren't trying to offer the lowest prices

The Kanye West shirt was selling a connection to Kanye, with a free t-shirt as proof.

Like I said previously, American Apparel sells nationalism.

You could say that comparing a shirt from h&m to one from American Apparel is comparing apples to oranges.

Companies like Apple and Samsung aren't selling their products with concern for labor costs. They sell their stuff at price points.

FWIW, on pricier items like consumer electronics, labor costs have less impact on the bottom line, and tariffs can really impact where a company sets up shop.

Really??

https://www.chinafile.com/reporting-opin...ss-foxconn

http://www.businessinsider.com/china-lab...ers-2013-7

Yes, really. Perhaps I should have clarified my point a bit better. Apple products are sold at price points. The cost of labor has little or no bearing on those price points. It has no bearing because their cost for labor is so low. Yes, Apple will always look for ways to grind it down even more in the interest of more profit, but it's not going to have any bearing on what you as a consumer pay for their product.

[porscheguy]

(03-14-2016 04:18 PM)Libertas Wrote:  

I read somewhere (forgot where, unfortunately) that the biggest sell of "free" trade, that is, that you can buy products for much cheaper than if they were made in America is really bogus, because they sell the product at a markup that puts it basically on par with what they'd sell it for anyway even if it was made here.

The lower labor costs just allow them to pocket the difference and increase their bottom lines.

Like I said above, most of the shit we buy is sold at price points.

A basic 55" Samsung TV costs between $900-$1200 depending on where it is in it's product life cycle. When it's new it'll cost closer to $1200, and when their retailers need to unload inventory for the newer model, you'll see the price drop steadily. If you want a TV with a better display than the basic, you'll drop another $500. Better refresh rate? Add another $300-$500. I know Samsung is Korean, but I don't know where my TV is made. It could be China, Korea, or Vietnam. It doesn't matter because the price stays the same.

Harbor Freight is about the only retailer I can think of who makes stuff in China and keeps their prices very low. But they produce a lot of junk, and have a limited market in which they sell. I have no guilt about shopping there now that Craftsman tools are made in China.

[rudebwoy]

^^How much would you pay American workers to make the same Apple products?

[Travesty]

To have a healthy society I think we need a $15 per hour minimum wage. Otherwise we are slipping into a more modernized version of a 3rd world country when it comes to opportunity and being able to save enough to invest for the common man.

So $15.

I think as time goes on you will see more minimum wage jobs. Automation will make more minimum wage and a select much smaller group of very high paying jobs due to extreme expertise. So the minimum wage (will be universal wage) is an extremely important baseline for the health of society because that will be the living standard of the vast majority of people and this truly will be out of their control due to technology.

Fewer people will be able to compete as time goes by no matter how hard they try.

[porscheguy]

(03-14-2016 06:15 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

^^How much would you pay American workers to make the same Apple products?

I would have them on par with UAW workers. They'd be paid enough so they could actually buy most of the shit they're building.

[rudebwoy]

(03-14-2016 07:37 PM)porscheguy Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 06:15 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

^^How much would you pay American workers to make the same Apple products?

I would have them on par with UAW workers. They'd be paid enough so they could actually buy most of the shit they're building.

How much exactly?

How much do UAW workers make?

[DarkTriad]

(03-10-2016 04:09 AM)Space Cowboy Wrote:  

(03-09-2016 06:12 AM)Liberty Sea Wrote:  

(03-09-2016 06:04 AM)porscheguy Wrote:  

Is there an actual name for the government and economic model of China? It's not a democracy. It's not really communist although they claim to be. And since they claim to be communist, they're not really capitalists either.

It's typically called state-capitalism (as opposed to free-market capitalism), which is quite correct imo.

Communism with Chinese characteristics.

Even their revolution was completely different than what Marx had written. Marx said that new worker classes would revolt under capitalism. Mao got his ass kicked doing this and retreated to the countryside and lead a peasant revolt.

[porscheguy]

(03-14-2016 08:04 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

How much exactly?

How much do UAW workers make?

Present UAW workers start at just under $16/hour.

Now, what's your point?