[Spectrumwalker]

(04-27-2016 07:44 PM)doodlebug786 Wrote:  

Fair enough, but at least you have to show me the source....so far you provided nothing. So you say it is in the hadith of Bukhari, you need to show me.

Really? You need me, a Christian man, to show you, a Muslim man your own religious texts? Are your own leaders not telling you everything about your faith?

If that's the case, I'm more than happy to because I believe more people, Muslim and non Muslim alike need to study the Hadith and Sunnah when learning about Islam, and understanding who Mohammed was as a man. Not only the Quran. And again, regardless of what you think of the validity, these were written and must be accounted for.

Anyone with half a brain, an internet connection, or a public library with an Islamic literature section can go and read all the Hadiths.

Here, Volume 9, book 87, Hadith 111. "Narrated by Aisha"... His own wife. I can't embed from my phone, so here's a link. 20 seconds on Google.

http://www.sahih-bukhari.com/Pages/Bukhari_9_87.php


No library? Don't trust the internet?

Here, choose from amazon and have them all delivered to you. While you're at it, order a real King James Bible, instead of the phony modern Bibles that Imams and Muslim "Jesus loving" street evangelists like to use to try and prove their false charge that Christians are polytheists.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/s/ref=is_s_s...x=sahih+al

[doodlebug786]

(04-28-2016 12:19 AM)Spectrumwalker Wrote:  

(04-27-2016 07:44 PM)doodlebug786 Wrote:  

Fair enough, but at least you have to show me the source....so far you provided nothing. So you say it is in the hadith of Bukhari, you need to show me.

Really? You need me, a Christian man, to show you, a Muslim man your own religious texts? Are your own leaders not telling you everything about your faith?

If that's the case, I'm more than happy to because I believe more people, Muslim and non Muslim alike need to study the Hadith and Sunnah when learning about Islam, and understanding who Mohammed was as a man. Not only the Quran. And again, regardless of what you think of the validity, these were written and must be accounted for.

Anyone with half a brain, an internet connection, or a public library with an Islamic literature section can go and read all the Hadiths.

Here, Volume 9, book 87, Hadith 111. "Narrated by Aisha"... His own wife. I can't embed from my phone, so here's a link. 20 seconds on Google.

http://www.sahih-bukhari.com/Pages/Bukhari_9_87.php


No library? Don't trust the internet?

Here, choose from amazon and have them all delivered to you. While you're at it, order a real King James Bible, instead of the phony modern Bibles that Imams and Muslim "Jesus loving" street evangelists like to use to try and prove their false charge that Christians are polytheists.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/s/ref=is_s_s...x=sahih+al

SpectrumWalker,
First you must understand and concede that the volume of our religious texts is huge, not only do we have the quran but the hadiths like you said which are books upon books. Yes the Hadith of Bukhari is valid. Your king James bible is the equivalent to our hadith that is they are a both a collection of writings by various people collated after the death of the messenger (mohammed or jesus). The Quran is very very different, if you read it you will notice it is god talking to you rather than someone telling a story here and there. So the gospel that jesus had in his hand (or head) is not the king james bible. King James bible is simply your hadith. the original gospel does not exist anymore.
Hadith of bukhari is over 9000 narrations, i have the set at home and i have all the other sets too. Forgive me if I havent met your expectations on reading all of them, plus the other 30 or so books of other hadiths.
ok anyway back to topic...
ok so that narration you quoted is legit, so it seems that yes you are right...so at the beginning of the revelation there was a period where he did not receive any devine revelation and during that time prophet mohammed was sad enough that he thought it easier to end his life but each time he thought that angel gabriel would come to him and comfort him.
So I will concede that part to you, but you also have to acknowledge that he was in fact visited by angel gabriel like I said and this is also found in the same hadith you quoted.

Fair/honest enough?

[The Beast1]

(04-28-2016 02:18 AM)doodlebug786 Wrote:  

So I will concede that part to you, but you also have to acknowledge that he was in fact visited by angel gabriel like I said all based on the hadith you quoted.

Fair/honest enough?

Why do Muslims like yourself take a massively narrow view of your religious texts in order to avoid the cognitive dissonance that your prophet was nothing more than a violent child marrying warlord? We're not arguing the fact that something visited Mohammad and told him to do X,Y, and Z. We're arguing that Islam and its followers are following a religious works based text that leads them to violence.

Again you've offered no such argument that your religion isn't a violent mess. The only thing you've offered so far is how ignorant muslims on the street are to their own religious texts.

I'm not a KJV fan, but Christian Biblical texts from the earliest greek translations to the modern English have a simple and consistent message from Jesus Christ himself: to love your neighbor as you love yourself. Paul goes on further to clarify what it means to protect ones spirit from the many forces at work designed to make you trip up. Islam offers nothing of the sort other than, "Do this, go to heaven. Kaffirs should be enslaved, etc etc".

[doodlebug786]

(04-28-2016 02:31 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Why do Muslims like yourself take a massively narrow view of your religious texts in order to avoid the cognitive dissonance that your prophet was nothing more than a violent child marrying warlord? We're not arguing the fact that something visited Mohammad and told him to do X,Y, and Z.

SyrianGuy said the prophet himself wasn't sure that he was visited by angel Gabriel, and then Spectrum followed me up on that. So yes that was part of the argument. You can read back on the posts if you want. So needs to be acknowledged.
Regarding child marriage...well lets leave that nonsense to another post if you want.

(04-28-2016 02:31 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

We're arguing that Islam and its followers are following a religious works based text that leads them to violence.

Again you've offered no such argument that your religion isn't a violent mess. The only thing you've offered so far is how ignorant muslims on the street are to their own religious texts.

Ok so the argument here is, all prophets were sent to deliver a message and no prophet including jesus advocated to only use love and never hit back or strike when needed or asked to.
Prophet mohammed was indeed a leader of many many wars and battles. Just like many prophets before him.
Was Solomon violent? Abraham? Were they bad?
or are you just saying Jesus is superior because he was not violent?

Do you yourself live by the principle of 'offer the other cheek'?

[The Beast1]

(04-28-2016 02:57 AM)doodlebug786 Wrote:  

(04-28-2016 02:31 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Why do Muslims like yourself take a massively narrow view of your religious texts in order to avoid the cognitive dissonance that your prophet was nothing more than a violent child marrying warlord? We're not arguing the fact that something visited Mohammad and told him to do X,Y, and Z.

SyrianGuy said the prophet himself wasn't sure that he was visited by angel Gabriel, and then Spectrum followed me up on that. So yes that was part of the argument. You can read back on the posts if you want. So needs to be acknowledged.

There is nothing that needs to be acknowledged, he provided the relevant points and cited your scripture to make the point.

(04-28-2016 02:57 AM)doodlebug786 Wrote:  

Regarding child marriage...well lets leave that nonsense to another post if you want.

Quote:

Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).  Sahih al-Bukhari, 7:62:64

What nonsense? It's written in another one of your holy books. Here we go again, a non muslim having to cite your own religious texts to make a point. It sounds like ignorance of your own religious texts is the reason you haven't been able to argue a positive message for your own religion.

(04-28-2016 02:57 AM)doodlebug786 Wrote:  

(04-28-2016 02:31 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

We're arguing that Islam and its followers are following a religious works based text that leads them to violence.

Again you've offered no such argument that your religion isn't a violent mess. The only thing you've offered so far is how ignorant muslims on the street are to their own religious texts.

Ok so the argument here is, all prophets were sent to deliver a message and no prophet including jesus advocated to only use love and never hit back or strike when needed or asked to.

That is not the argument at all, nor the point I was trying to make. Secondly, your understanding of how the golden rule works is flawed. Read this great article written by one of ROK's greats: http://www.returnofkings.com/33060/the-g...rule-works

(04-28-2016 02:57 AM)doodlebug786 Wrote:  

Prophet mohammed was indeed a leader of many many wars and battles. Just like many prophets before him.
Was Solomon violent? Abraham? Were they bad?
or are you just saying Jesus is superior because he was not violent?

Again with this misdirection, nowhere was that point being made or argued. But I will say this: Jesus' message is superior on the entire basis of the golden rule (love thy neighbor) and on the basis that earthly based "works" do not lead you to heaven.

The ironic part is: Jesus predicted that people will distort his message for nefarious gains. He even said that angels of darkness will masquerade as angels of light. Know them by the fruits they bare.

(04-28-2016 02:57 AM)doodlebug786 Wrote:  

Do you yourself live by the principle of 'offer the other cheek'?

I do as a matter of fact. The law that Jesus gave us humans can be applied towards all sorts of amazing ends. Give it a shot sometime, you might be surprised.

[doodlebug786]

(04-28-2016 05:52 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

There is nothing that needs to be acknowledged, he provided the relevant points and cited your scripture to make the point.

Yep, he made one point out of the two raised...agreed?, and I made one point out of the two using the same cited scripture.
Move on already.

(04-28-2016 05:52 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Quote:

Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).  Sahih al-Bukhari, 7:62:64

What nonsense? It's written in another one of your holy books. Here we go again, a non muslim having to cite your own religious texts to make a point. It sounds like ignorance of your own religious texts is the reason you haven't been able to argue a positive message for your own religion.

The nonsense is not that he consummated his marriage when she was nine, coz that is a fact!
The nonsense is that you are criticizing it. No one ever criticized this before 20th century...why because it was not out of the normal. You need to get out of the feminist mindset of laws that have passed in the last 100yrs.
To make my point I will take a look at the age of consent laws in USA (the most forward country in the world right???). So tell me why in most states was the age of consent 10yrs old for girls up until just recently. Delaware had the age at 7....explain that to me. So it was fine n dandy for a 9 year old to get married and have sex in the 1900's but all of a sudden now they were bad.
Here take a look at the history table.
http://chnm.gmu.edu/cyh/primary-sources/24

So in Islam the age of consent is simply when the girl hits puberty. Once they hit puberty they are able to have sex and fall pregnant and take care of their husband and family.
It is a fundamental law....to have an actual age makes no sense. hence the feminists keep pushing the age back and back. Stop letting them make your laws, they already started with this marriage rape nonsense too. You making fun of the prophet only shows that you have fallen for their feminist agenda.

So I ask you, what is the age of consent in the bible? You tell me what god has commanded on you. then get back to me, and list your citation for all of us to see.

(04-28-2016 05:52 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

That is not the argument at all, nor the point I was trying to make. Secondly, your understanding of how the golden rule works is flawed. Read this great article written by one of ROK's greats: http://www.returnofkings.com/33060/the-g...rule-works

Well if thats the golden rule you abide by then I give you respect for that.
I'm glad. Coz there are times and places where you need force. That is my point.
In the quran it specifically says WHEN we are allowed and not allowed to use force and fight/kill someone.
So where in the bible does it say this? It will be interesting to compare.

(04-28-2016 05:52 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(04-28-2016 02:57 AM)doodlebug786 Wrote:  

Prophet mohammed was indeed a leader of many many wars and battles. Just like many prophets before him.
Was Solomon violent? Abraham? Were they bad?
or are you just saying Jesus is superior because he was not violent?

Again with this misdirection, nowhere was that point being made or argued. But I will say this: Jesus' message is superior on the entire basis of the golden rule (love thy neighbor) and on the basis that earthly based "works" do not lead you to heaven.

No misdirection here...the statement was made that prophet mohammed was a VIOLENT child marrying warlord. So I am only commenting back on that.
So question is do you think Solomon or Abraham were bad coz they were violent? what about Moses?.....needs to be answered but you can ignore if you want.

(04-28-2016 05:52 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

The ironic part is: Jesus predicted that people will distort his message for nefarious gains. He even said that angels of darkness will masquerade as angels of light. Know them by the fruits they bare.

Yep sure. This is why another prophet was sent to bring another book that could not be changed. the quran.
Jesus was sent because the book moses brought was distorted by the jews. Jesus came to correct them and their book. And now the corrected book that jesus had is no longer here probably coz the jews and romans destroyed what they could of it.

(04-28-2016 05:52 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(04-28-2016 02:57 AM)doodlebug786 Wrote:  

Do you yourself live by the principle of 'offer the other cheek'?

I do as a matter of fact. The law that Jesus gave us humans can be applied towards all sorts of amazing ends. Give it a shot sometime, you might be surprised.

Yes but how many slaps to the cheek will it take before you finally hit me back. So this points back to what you posted before about the golden rule.
Muslims are commanded to only offer the other cheek if we are able, but if we hit back it is acceptable also.
To not do so at times would not be manly at all. We have rules of engagement, I am not sure if the bible does or not? but you tell me.

[syrianguy]

In a way I am glad to have him on here. He is a good representation of muslims' complete lack of knowledge of their own sources.

Doodlebug answer me this, you are clearly not an arab so would you tell us what's your background. The letter "s" is commonly written as a line without the camel humps. Sounds to me like you got some arabic training in elementary school and use google to search up the alphabet online. This is relevant to me because I don't think you actually fully read the material. The level of shock and denial you exhibit over what should be common knowledge makes me realize you are just ignorant and mislead ( maybe not doing it out of a malicious intent). I own an arabic copy of the Koran. Are you pakistani by any chance? Stop relying on your local Imam and start reading.

You pick and chose whatever you want to respond to, dismiss what you can't defend and deflect the rest. Muslims debating 101

(04-28-2016 02:18 AM)doodlebug786 Wrote:  

ok so that narration you quoted is legit, so it seems that yes you are right...so at the beginning of the revelation there was a period where he did not receive any devine revelation and during that time prophet mohammed was sad enough that he thought it easier to end his life but each time he thought that angel gabriel would come to him and comfort him.
So I will concede that part to you, but you also have to acknowledge that he was in fact visited by angel gabriel like I said and this is also found in the same hadith you quoted.

Fair/honest enough?

Even with the text quoted to you in plain english you still refuse to read it ? Are you this narrow or is it a severe lack of reading comprehension. It says:

The angel came to him in it and asked him to read. The Prophet replied, "I do not know how to read." (The Prophet added), "The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it anymore. He then released me and again asked me to read, and I replied, "I do not know how to read," whereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it anymore. He then released me and asked me again to read, but again I replied, "I do not know how to read (or, what shall I read?)." Thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me and then released me and said, "Read: In the Name of your Lord, Who has created (all that exists). Has created man from a clot. Read and Your Lord is Most Generous... up to... that which he knew not."

Mohamad was tortured by the "angel". After he told the entity that he could not read he was repeatedly pressed and choked until he was close to death! At no point did the entity introduce itself as Gabriel. Where in the biblical context was an angel ever this violent ? In fact the first thing Angel Gabriel says in the bile is :"Do not be afraid. I bring you good news that will cause great joy for all the people."

Secondly, you are not understanding the reading or trying to mislead us again. We are not told for a fact that it was Angel Gabriel. We are told that this is what Waraqa thought of the encounter. Mohamad did not know what it was he had seen, he was shaking in fear and went running to his wife khadija screaming "Cover me! Cover me!". Fearing for his life she took him to her cousin Waraqa, ironically a christian priest , who told him it was Gabriel.

You are relying on a christian priest's opinion of an event he had not witnessed and who made a judgement call on the spot influenced by his own biblical beliefs. By the way, according to many scholars, Waraqa was part of then popular christian sect that did not believe in Christ's divinity either so that explains where Mohamad's beliefs came from. Here you go, Islam owes their entire religion to a confused christian priest lol.

Remember, this is not the writings of the enemies of Islam. It is not rumors or accounts about Mohamad told by Meccans, Jews, Persians, Christians or Hindus. No, it is Islam's own validated sources. That's why doodlebug cannot win this debate without suffering from massive mental dissonance. Plenty of hadith much worse than this, which I have mentioned. It is a collection of all sorts of crimes and perversions but Muslims won't acknowledge it.

[syrianguy]

(04-28-2016 08:10 PM)doodlebug786 Wrote:  

Jesus was sent because the book moses brought was distorted by the jews. Jesus came to correct them and their book. And now the corrected book that jesus had is no longer here probably coz the jews and romans destroyed what they could of it.

That's not why he was sent at all. He taught the old testament himself at the synagogue. He came to fulfill the 10 commandments and offer universal salvation. Amazing ignorance on full display here. Dude your own Koran contradicts you:

Dawood - Quran 3:48 - 50
48. He [Allah] will instruct him [Jesus] in the Scriptures and in wisdom, in the Torah and in the Gospel
49. and send him forth as an apostle to the Israelites. He will say: "I bring you a sign from your Lord". ...
50. "I come to confirm the Torah which preceded me and to make lawful to you some of the things you are forbidden. I bring you a sign from your Lord: therefore fear God and obey me."

Drop everything and start reading.

Muslims keep claiming the bible was corrupted, but have you ever heard of the dead sea scrolls ? The bible has not even changed a word since. If one document has changed it is the Koran. Have you heard about the Koran burning and re-editing by Uthman? How can you trust your Koran after such event. The bible is backed by an Archaeological review conducted by actual archaeologists. Meanwhile, Islam claims that Abraham build the Kabaa, a historical impossibility.

One more thing, the Koran itself commands people of the book to refer to their books: Dawood - Quran 5:46, 47 " Therefore let those who follow the Gospel judge according to what God has revealed therein. Evil-doers are those that do not judge according to God's revelations. "

If we are told by mohamad to follow our gospel how do you say it is corrupted. We know for a fact that the bible was not changed since the year 600.

Let me touch on the point that the Koran is the word of God. I wish the western world would start teaching the Koran in universities down to every single verse because I believe it would get laughed out of existence. The Koran is supposed to be the timeless and eternal word of God. Spoken before time and creation itself. Yet it is full of scientific inaccuracies, the sun setting in the mud, earth being a flat disc and many others. More importantly there are verses that serve no purpose other than accommodate every single wish Moahamad has. Even a child can follow the pattern and realize this is simply the word of mo not god.

One example is Mohamad's desire and lust for his adopted son's wife. Conveniently God "reveals" to him a verse which asks his son to divorce and for mohamad to marry her. It is in Koran, yes before time itself Allah was worried about Mohamad's sexual desires. Ridiculous perversion of a religion.

Last point, muslims keep talking about christians worshiping two gods. When effectively, Mohamad is elevated far above other prophets and subliminally equaled to Allah in many instances. Do you know that the expression is not "Mohamad, peace be upon him" but "Sallah Allah Aleyhi ou salam"= Momhamad, Allah prayers upon him and peace" Who does Allah pray to ? What does it mean to pray upon someone ? Isn't Allah a the divine God so how does he need to pray ? I am asking you those questions but I bet you aren't even aware of the arabic expression

[syrianguy]

Also, you are wrong in your interpretation about turning the other cheek. Jesus does not say if someone cuts off your arm, offer the other one. Read and interpret what is said as the words are carefully selected. A slap does not cause bodily harm, it is interpreted here as an insult to your ego. Jesus commands not to respond to insults and to just ignore them. The bible has specific verses about self-defense and a clear distinction is made between that and turning the other cheek. This is something that not just muslims don't get but a lot of those christians by name don't as well.

Contrast this to Mohamad who killed harmless people (a poet, a mother, an old man in his sleep ect..) for only insulting or mocking him. Same thing with Muslims who kill any critics. Maybe you find this manly but I find it cowardly and lacking any mercy. That's the difference between Jesus and Mohamad.

[doodlebug786]

(04-28-2016 08:30 PM)syrianguy Wrote:  

In a way I am glad to have him on here. He is a good representation of muslims' complete lack of knowledge of their own sources.

nice...

(04-28-2016 08:30 PM)syrianguy Wrote:  

Doodlebug answer me this, you are clearly not an arab so would you tell us what's your background. The letter "s" is commonly written as a line without the camel humps. Sounds to me like you got some arabic training in elementary school and use google to search up the alphabet online. This is relevant to me because I don't think you actually fully read the material. The level of shock and denial you exhibit over what should be common knowledge makes me realize you are just ignorant and mislead ( maybe not doing it out of a malicious intent). I own an arabic copy of the Koran. Are you pakistani by any chance? Stop relying on your local Imam and start reading.

wow just wow. No the letter "s" is not commonly written without the humps in proper arabic, Can you find it written anywhere like this in your arabic copy of the quran? if you can take a photo of it and post it here. But you know yourself it is not written that way....don't bring in crappy sloppy writing and caligraphy. Keep it real and authentic. You know how arabic is supposed to be written.....so stop.
You lied about what was written on the ninja bandana not me....you started this. why dont you tell everyone what is written on the bandana.

ok secondly, I'm from australia - born here...so to learn I went to egypt and studied arabic there so that I can learn the proper arabic.....you know the one that is written in your quran at home. My teacher is from Al Azhar university. So pretty authentic, and i am more than sure a better place to learn arabic then where ever you learnt it from - elementary school in syria perhaps. Would you like to share with us where that was? I read better than lots of arabs coz I learnt the proper arabic.
Anything else you would like to ask me?...like i said before. I will be completely honest.

(04-28-2016 08:30 PM)syrianguy Wrote:  

You pick and chose whatever you want to respond to, dismiss what you can't defend and deflect the rest. Muslims debating 101

I don't see what I have dismissed and I have tried my best to respond to everything....even admitting things I did not know.
so enough of your sly put downs. Is there something I didn't respond to?

(04-28-2016 08:30 PM)syrianguy Wrote:  

Even with the text quoted to you in plain english you still refuse to read it ? Are you this narrow or is it a severe lack of reading comprehension. It says:

The angel came to him in it and asked him to read. The Prophet replied, "I do not know how to read." (The Prophet added), "The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it anymore. He then released me and again asked me to read, and I replied, "I do not know how to read," whereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it anymore. He then released me and asked me again to read, but again I replied, "I do not know how to read (or, what shall I read?)." Thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me and then released me and said, "Read: In the Name of your Lord, Who has created (all that exists). Has created man from a clot. Read and Your Lord is Most Generous... up to... that which he knew not."

Mohamad was tortured by the "angel". After he told the entity that he could not read he was repeatedly pressed and choked until he was close to death! At no point did the entity introduce itself as Gabriel. Where in the biblical context was an angel ever this violent ? In fact the first thing Angel Gabriel says in the bile is :"Do not be afraid. I bring you good news that will cause great joy for all the people."

Secondly, you are not understanding the reading or trying to mislead us again. We are not told for a fact that it was Angel Gabriel. We are told that this is what Waraqa thought of the encounter. Mohamad did not know what it was he had seen, he was shaking in fear and went running to his wife khadija screaming "Cover me! Cover me!". Fearing for his life she took him to her cousin Waraqa, ironically a christian priest , who told him it was Gabriel.

You are relying on a christian priest's opinion of an event he had not witnessed and who made a judgement call on the spot influenced by his own biblical beliefs. By the way, according to many scholars, Waraqa was part of then popular christian sect that did not believe in Christ's divinity either so that explains where Mohamad's beliefs came from. Here you go, Islam owes their entire religion to a confused christian priest lol.

Wow....so it says right there it was an angel. So now you are saying the hadith is not reliable because it is coming from a christian priest!?! this is pure gold.
ohh and this is the hadith that you provided yourself. .. it was not even me.
ok so let me get this straight....based on your hadith citation....you are accepting it or not? the hadith is no good coz of the christian priest who you dont like? so then why post it up here? dude.........seriously.........what?

maybe go back to the ninja bandana and 6 yr old caligraphy with greek and explain that again.

[doodlebug786]

(04-28-2016 08:58 PM)syrianguy Wrote:  

That's not why he was sent at all. He taught the old testament himself at the synagogue. He came to fulfill the 10 commandments and offer universal salvation. Amazing ignorance on full display here. Dude your own Koran contradicts you:

Dawood - Quran 3:48 - 50
48. He [Allah] will instruct him [Jesus] in the Scriptures and in wisdom, in the Torah and in the Gospel
49. and send him forth as an apostle to the Israelites. He will say: "I bring you a sign from your Lord". ...
50. "I come to confirm the Torah which preceded me and to make lawful to you some of the things you are forbidden. I bring you a sign from your Lord: therefore fear God and obey me."

Drop everything and start reading.

Yes this is what I am saying. He came to confirm the original torah as it was revealed to Moses....because the jews corrupted it. so he came to make lawful the things that are forbidden by them.....he came to correct them because they rejected and messed up the torah. This is exactly what I am saying....and the good word that he taught them in the synagogue was basically the corrected torah. Where is this corrected torah? that is what I am saying. This is why jesus warned them about changing even one letter in the book.....because they were changing it.
ok so is that clear enough?

(04-28-2016 08:58 PM)syrianguy Wrote:  

Muslims keep claiming the bible was corrupted, but have you ever heard of the dead sea scrolls ? The bible has not even changed a word since. If one document has changed it is the Koran. Have you heard about the Koran burning and re-editing by Uthman? How can you trust your Koran after such event. The bible is backed by an Archaeological review conducted by actual archaeologists. Meanwhile, Islam claims that Abraham build the Kabaa, a historical impossibility.

Your bible was written long time after jesus death, by unknown authors. It is the gospel according to "enter companions name here"
I'm saying the bible you are reading now is not the one that jesus came with...he came with the corrected torah...we call it the injeel.
your bible is like our hadith.
Your bible gets changed....words added, removed, different versions...sometimes books removed.
Quran has not changed since Uthman put it together. Never will never can. but yours does and keeps changing....jesus was not the author of it.

(04-28-2016 08:58 PM)syrianguy Wrote:  

One more thing, the Koran itself commands people of the book to refer to their books: Dawood - Quran 5:46, 47 " Therefore let those who follow the Gospel judge according to what God has revealed therein. Evil-doers are those that do not judge according to God's revelations. "

If we are told by mohamad to follow our gospel how do you say it is corrupted. We know for a fact that the bible was not changed since the year 600.

Yes you are right. and like jesus said there will come a time when the bible is corrupt. Quran does command this for various reasons and one is that the books says there is another messenger coming....i'm sure it is still around in some parts of your bible or maybe not. Just like in the torah they supposed to know that another messenger is coming...but they rejected it and did not follow their book properly yes??? Follow the books properly and then you will end up in the correct place and accept all the prophets that god has sent us.

(04-28-2016 08:58 PM)syrianguy Wrote:  

Let me touch on the point that the Koran is the word of God. I wish the western world would start teaching the Koran in universities down to every single verse because I believe it would get laughed out of existence. The Koran is supposed to be the timeless and eternal word of God. Spoken before time and creation itself. Yet it is full of scientific inaccuracies, the sun setting in the mud, earth being a flat disc and many others. More importantly there are verses that serve no purpose other than accommodate every single wish Moahamad has. Even a child can follow the pattern and realize this is simply the word of mo not god.

hmmm no. quran does not say world is flat. it says god spread it out to make it easy for us.
Quran 15:19 And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance.

I think people say the bible says it is flat. ? you tell me what the bible says about the shape of the earth?

Sun setting is something though....we do say the sun moves around the earth. so yep that definitely goes against current thinking. Quran says sun and moon move. Does not say the earth moves.
Scientifically both are theories.....and we keep changing our theories and views all the time.
that said....there is plenty scientific marvels in the quran. but i will not say that is what proves god exists. that is pretty lame argument.

(04-28-2016 08:58 PM)syrianguy Wrote:  

One example is Mohamad's desire and lust for his adopted son's wife. Conveniently God "reveals" to him a verse which asks his son to divorce and for mohamad to marry her. It is in Koran, yes before time itself Allah was worried about Mohamad's sexual desires. Ridiculous perversion of a religion.

I dont see how that reveals his lust. so god says to him in quran to marry her. where did it say...."oh my prophet...i see you lust for her....go get some"
come on bro.....keep it real. So is that the most perverse thing you saw in the quran?
secondly I do not think you want to bring up perversion....I hear there is a lot of it in the bible....but you tell me.

(04-28-2016 08:58 PM)syrianguy Wrote:  

Last point, muslims keep talking about christians worshiping two gods. When effectively, Mohamad is elevated far above other prophets and subliminally equaled to Allah in many instances. Do you know that the expression is not "Mohamad, peace be upon him" but "Sallah Allah Aleyhi ou salam"= Momhamad, Allah prayers upon him and peace" Who does Allah pray to ? What does it mean to pray upon someone ? Isn't Allah a the divine God so how does he need to pray ? I am asking you those questions but I bet you aren't even aware of the arabic expression

I never once said to you that you worshipping two gods.
You know its like you just have a pre-conceived Idea....and you just debating against yourself.
Says may allah honor him, or bless him, or give him peace.
dude your doing it again....you say you know arabic so well.....so you know all the different meanings to words and where they are derived from. you know how big our dictionary is compared to an english one.
back to the ninja bandana....translate that for us again. especially the red part which you said read bismillah. lets see if you get that right this time.

[syrianguy]

(04-21-2016 02:40 AM)doodlebug786 Wrote:  

I don't think you have read the quran yourself. probably just googled it.
Mohammad was quite sure he was visited by angel gabriel. and he wasnt suicidal. dude i dunno where u get this stuff from.

(04-28-2016 08:30 PM)syrianguy Wrote:  

Mohamad did not know what it was he had seen

(04-29-2016 02:49 AM)doodlebug786 Wrote:  

Wow....so it says right there it was an angel.

Strong denial game bro....and about time.

[JDog212]

Well damn, I hope this post does not just add clutter, but I just want to say that this website is astounding. I always thought that Roosh and his associated sites were strictly about women until I signed up for this forum and discovered there is an entire world of men who think like me. I didn't realize other people understood the obvious correlation between Islam and what is referred to in Revelations. Sadly, I think this is not taught in our churches because it is "offensive." But anyone with a brain can see that the Islamic messiah (the "Maddhi") is exactly the same as the Christian anti-Christ. Christians seem to be in total denial of this fact. I don't respect any "theologian" or pastor who doesn't believe that Islam is the One World Religion when it is essentially written in the Bible precisely. This forum is probably the greatest thing I've ever found on the Internet. I hope this thread gets a lot more hits, because this is a revelation that more people need to be having. Islam is the One World Religion, the Maddhi is the Anti-Christ, the Dijja is Jesus, and Allah is Satan (the deceiver). Spread the word, fellow men. And consider yourselves blessed to have this understanding of our times. Many do not.

[The Beast1]

(05-02-2016 11:09 PM)JDog212 Wrote:  

Well damn, I hope this post does not just add clutter, but I just want to say that this website is astounding. I always thought that Roosh and his associated sites were strictly about women until I signed up for this forum and discovered there is an entire world of men who think like me. I didn't realize other people understood the obvious correlation between Islam and what is referred to in Revelations. Sadly, I think this is not taught in our churches because it is "offensive." But anyone with a brain can see that the Islamic messiah (the "Maddhi") is exactly the same as the Christian anti-Christ. Christians seem to be in total denial of this fact. I don't respect any "theologian" or pastor who doesn't believe that Islam is the One World Religion when it is essentially written in the Bible precisely. This forum is probably the greatest thing I've ever found on the Internet. I hope this thread gets a lot more hits, because this is a revelation that more people need to be having. Islam is the One World Religion, the Maddhi is the Anti-Christ, the Dijja is Jesus, and Allah is Satan (the deceiver). Spread the word, fellow men. And consider yourselves blessed to have this understanding of our times. Many do not.

I've thought about this more and more, maybe the Maddhi will enter this world not through natural means (birth) but via unnatural means. Maybe as humans we crack the quantum code and are able to break the confines of our fleshy prison to greet the entities that run this show. Essentially, the story line of the video game Doom but with less flesh eating monsters and more of the non-benevolent entities coming into our world to greet us.

It seems like a sci-fi novel plot. We're long over due for some crazy scientific breakthroughs.

[Kid Twist]

(05-02-2016 11:09 PM)JDog212 Wrote:  

Well damn, I hope this post does not just add clutter, but I just want to say that this website is astounding. I always thought that Roosh and his associated sites were strictly about women until I signed up for this forum and discovered there is an entire world of men who think like me. I didn't realize other people understood the obvious correlation between Islam and what is referred to in Revelations. Sadly, I think this is not taught in our churches because it is "offensive." But anyone with a brain can see that the Islamic messiah (the "Maddhi") is exactly the same as the Christian anti-Christ. Christians seem to be in total denial of this fact. I don't respect any "theologian" or pastor who doesn't believe that Islam is the One World Religion when it is essentially written in the Bible precisely. This forum is probably the greatest thing I've ever found on the Internet. I hope this thread gets a lot more hits, because this is a revelation that more people need to be having. Islam is the One World Religion, the Maddhi is the Anti-Christ, the Dijja is Jesus, and Allah is Satan (the deceiver). Spread the word, fellow men. And consider yourselves blessed to have this understanding of our times. Many do not.

The original christians know all about it. They dealt with these people. Western christians are derivatives of the franco-roman church led astray by Charlemagne, neither of which ever had a border with Islam (unless you count Spain who fought them back). If you see my posts, you'll recognize where the truth is.

I'm glad you have found some enlightening posts. The rabbit hole has just been opened.

[RickRambis]

I recommend the book Islamic Antichrist by Joel Richardson.

The author makes the case that the current growth of Islam by demographics and conversions is the mechanism that brings about the apocalypse of Revelation rather than a 'revived Roman Empire'.

He supports all of his hypotheses with scripture mainly from the books of Revelation, Psalms, and Daniel.

The sequel of Islamic Antichrist is Mideast Beast for those who are interested, which also deals with the same topic with a greater emphasis to prophetic scriptures.

[Sombro]