I'm skeptical about the whole Dispensationalism thing
The Second Coming of Christ, Islam, and the End of Days
I am not sure whether there was a first coming of Jesus, let alone a second.
Don't debate me.
I just watched an interesting documentary today about disproving the blasphemous evangelical Israel cucking, by some Arizona Pastor, Steven Anderson:
I like his style, once properly presented christianity isn't half bad even for masculine men with a desire for competition and conquest.
If interested in what makes these evangelical cucks go, you should watch this. These preachers are literally blasphemous corrupt cucks who use concepts and words from the Talmud!
Anyway, there is a discussion about who is the messiah, who is the jewish messiah, who is the anti-christ.
Steven Anderson the reverend asks these jewish rabbis and they all agree it is someone bringing peace on earth and leading the world from Jerusalem. I've said so before, but I think the Rothschilds have a messianic delusion.
The video above says that the likely anti-christ would quite literally be the jewish messiah, due to the overlap of how the jewish messiah and the anti-christ are described.
Obama has some anti-christ like qualities.
I like his style, once properly presented christianity isn't half bad even for masculine men with a desire for competition and conquest.
If interested in what makes these evangelical cucks go, you should watch this. These preachers are literally blasphemous corrupt cucks who use concepts and words from the Talmud!
Anyway, there is a discussion about who is the messiah, who is the jewish messiah, who is the anti-christ.
Steven Anderson the reverend asks these jewish rabbis and they all agree it is someone bringing peace on earth and leading the world from Jerusalem. I've said so before, but I think the Rothschilds have a messianic delusion.
The video above says that the likely anti-christ would quite literally be the jewish messiah, due to the overlap of how the jewish messiah and the anti-christ are described.
Obama has some anti-christ like qualities.
Here is what a website called simpletoremember.com. ("Judaism Online") says about why Jews don't believe Jesus was the messiah.
"(The real messiah) will Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world—on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9)."
Do the above buzzwords sound familiar anyone? The SJW attack dogs are helping to usher in Satan. The self professed lovers of humanity who are only wreaking havoc across nations and cultures around the world.
Let's go back to Genesis.
Genesis 11:1 "And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech."
Genesis 11, 4-9 "And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the earth. And the LORD came down to see the city and the city which the children of men builded. And the LORD said, behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this and they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Go to, let us (trinity), go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city. Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did their confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of the earth."
History is defined by empires coming together and failing to try and rule the world. There's nothing new under the sun. From scripture, it is crystal clear that God does not want humanity unified. If he didn't during the time of Genesi, he doesn't now. He wants nations, tribes, and languages. And for His message of salvation and reconciliation to be preached to all nations. (Matthew 28, 19-20). Regardless, if you think it's true or not, it's a beautiful story
Common sense alone tells us, if humanity is unified, only the top has to be infiltrated and the rest will follow, for good or for evil. Satan would love unity. Revelation 13:2 " And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon (Satan) gave him (Antichrist) his power and his seat and great authority." When Satan tempted Jesus, he tempted him with political power to the rule the world which he refused.
The Jews do not even believe their own scriptures in the Old Testament. When God wants humanity unified, he'll do it on his terms under his rule. Not under a mortal.
One day all the little Marx worshipping SJW's are beaten with a rod of iron for the wickedness they're responsible for. Lest they see the light.
Psalm 2:9
"Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potters vessel.".
"(The real messiah) will Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world—on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9)."
Do the above buzzwords sound familiar anyone? The SJW attack dogs are helping to usher in Satan. The self professed lovers of humanity who are only wreaking havoc across nations and cultures around the world.
Let's go back to Genesis.
Genesis 11:1 "And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech."
Genesis 11, 4-9 "And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the earth. And the LORD came down to see the city and the city which the children of men builded. And the LORD said, behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this and they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Go to, let us (trinity), go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city. Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did their confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of the earth."
History is defined by empires coming together and failing to try and rule the world. There's nothing new under the sun. From scripture, it is crystal clear that God does not want humanity unified. If he didn't during the time of Genesi, he doesn't now. He wants nations, tribes, and languages. And for His message of salvation and reconciliation to be preached to all nations. (Matthew 28, 19-20). Regardless, if you think it's true or not, it's a beautiful story
Common sense alone tells us, if humanity is unified, only the top has to be infiltrated and the rest will follow, for good or for evil. Satan would love unity. Revelation 13:2 " And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon (Satan) gave him (Antichrist) his power and his seat and great authority." When Satan tempted Jesus, he tempted him with political power to the rule the world which he refused.
The Jews do not even believe their own scriptures in the Old Testament. When God wants humanity unified, he'll do it on his terms under his rule. Not under a mortal.
One day all the little Marx worshipping SJW's are beaten with a rod of iron for the wickedness they're responsible for. Lest they see the light.
Psalm 2:9
"Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potters vessel.".
Dreams are like horses; they run wild on the earth. Catch one and ride it. Throw a leg over and ride it for all its worth.
Psalm 25:7
https://youtu.be/vHVoMCH10Wk
![[Image: tard.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/new/tard.gif)
Quote: (04-14-2016 09:01 PM)Disco_Volante Wrote:
Plus, Like you said Jesus would just be a normal man who would start preaching post-apocalypse scenario. But what about defeating the anti-Christ? It's not like we'd physically see a bunch of angels and shit taking down western militaries. Would China be doing God's work?
This.
This is where christians have it wrong. and it is a shame.
Truth is when jesus christ returns for the 2nd coming he is not going to preach tolerance and love...he is coming with his sword. He will personally be the one that kills the anti-christ. and he will only come when there is an uprising first to take on the jews and satans armies.
So yes you are not supposed to take this stuff lying down, you are expected to stand up and he wont come till that happens.
Quote: (04-14-2016 06:39 PM)debeguiled Wrote:
Quote: (04-14-2016 05:01 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:
Say I was evil, and trying to remake society to serve my own interests. I'd know a huge roadblock in my path was any religion based on Objective Morality, so I'd naturally want to avoid open-conflict with them.
Instead, I'd target their natural tendency for passive submission.
As such, I'd work to put in places structures in society that mirror the 'end of days' myths in their scripture.
A large component would then see no need to fight, because the same scripture says their saviour is coming, will sort everything out, and they will be rewarded for their faith.
By the time they realise he's not coming, their religion is subverted and the power it held is scattered to the winds.
In the Christian tradition, the real point of all the end times stuff is to get people to treat God's Word, as well as their own lives, seriously.
In the Bible you have many hints at when the end times will come, and what the signs are, but you only have a couple clear statements on the subject and these are when Jesus says that only the Father knows when it will happen, and he doesn't even know himself.
The message here, not overtly stated, is this:
The Second Coming could be any minute.
The point is to create a mental and emotional framework in the believer of heightened urgency, without the drastic level of panic that certainty would entail.
This is the difference between an intellectual work and a spiritual work. The spiritual work is not only concerned with the overt and reasoned meaning of the text. It is concerned with the welfare of the soul, and as such, is willing to use direct commands, guilt, confusion, entreaties, insinuations, whatever it takes really, to get through to people.
The purpose of getting people to think that the second coming could be any minute is to rid them of their moral complacency. Even people who have had legitimate spiritual experiences, meaning direct experiences of God's existence, can be ground down by the monotony of day after day life. It can lead you to forget what you have experienced and live as if God isn't really there, and nothing you do really matters.
In this kind of case, then, faith is not a blind belief in something you have no evidence of, but a hedge against amnesia.
The real purpose of the Second Coming story, and this should be totally evident if you have read the New Testament, is to strengthen the faith and the character of the individual believer. That is what everything in the New Testament is in service of, the strengthening of character of each believer.
Since this is the case, most of the speculation having to do with the prophecies and signs of the Second Coming, as enjoyable and engaging as it is, are a spiritual red herring. If you have truly internalized the message of Jesus, then you will focus on his main message, which is to love God and love your neighbor.
God doesn't just give us direction and encouragement, he also, always, gives us enough rope, so that we can rationalize and say that whatever tangent we are going off on, we are doing because God wants us to.
Or, to put it as I heard a Christian writer put it once:
"The Book of Revelation is often used as a happy hunting ground for people with strange ideas"
(I am using this quote in reference to people who obsess over the book constantly, and not normal inquiry, like in this thread.)
So I guess what I am saying is that, as reasonable as your thought experiment is on secular grounds, it doesn't really have any meaning for someone who has determined, to their own satisfaction, that God is real and Jesus is the best way to reach him.
You couldn't really be tricking them into passively submitting to a false end time in order to gain power over them, because the whole idea of the Christian mindset is ultimately to strengthen yourself in Faith and Love, and encourage others to do the same.
This works equally well whether or not your external circumstance is a legitimate end time, or an illegitimate one, since God is smart enough to figure out if you are (or are not) doing the best you can with what you have in the context of how you perceive things.
This is not a passive submission to a hostile force in hopes of a divine intervention in the near future. If you read the Bible, and you take it seriously, and you have an active prayer life, then you have a pretty good idea of what your own spiritual work should be. This isn't passive, it is work, and it is cut out for you.
The power religion has, or should have, and particularly Christianity, is in the example of loving your neighbor, and I am well aware how seldom this is true.
That is the only overt power Christianity has. It is hard work. Almost impossible to achieve.
And it doesn't change in any way, whether or not there is a legitimate Second Coming or some sort of mass social manipulation.
Great post. Especially insightful is
"Even people who have had legitimate spiritual experiences, meaning direct experiences of God's existence, can be ground down by the monotony of day after day life."
It reminds me of The Rich Man and Lazarus ("Send me back to tell my family!")
---
What's more, the most important point is the one of "What is it to you ... you follow ME"
That makes the charlatans selling speculation obvious to those who are aware of what the true duty is.
I'll tell you now, the more important thing is not what happens, but what guides you.
You'll find it all, including the one, true church (the only one that hasn't and won't change) in St. John of Damascus.
Not mine, but His will be done.
OP your post is actually in line with the escalation of recent events.
We can look closer at the the links between the Anti-Christ and Islam. One of the best commentator on this topic is ex-muslims christian convert Walid Shoebat, I recommend reading his book: God's war on terror.
This is not a new concept by any means, plenty have called out Islam to be a satanic religion. John of Damascus called Islam a christian heresy, Sophronius of Jerusalem denounced the siege on his home by the muslims calling them the antichrist. Others like Sir Robert Anderson and John wesley also came to the same conclusion when examining Islam.
If you look at the bible, a few things become clear about the Anti-Christ. One crucial verse is 1 John 2:22-24: "Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist--denying the Father and the Son". Islam denies the son and the trinity. It denies the main concepts of Christianity, namely the death and resurrection of Jesus and his divinity.
The location of the conflict is also indicated. In Isaiah 19:1 it says, "A prophecy against Egypt: See, the LORD rides on a swift cloud and is coming to Egypt. The idols of Egypt tremble before him, and the hearts of the Egyptians melt with fear."
In Egypt the Christians copts are persecuted and killed daily. This is predicted in Isaiah 19:20: " It will be a sign and a witness that the LORD of Heaven's Armies is worshiped in the land of Egypt. When the people cry to the LORD for help against those who oppress them, he will send them a mighty saviour."
As one poster here noted, Jesus will be coming to fight for Christians. Isaiah 63 says: "Who is this who comes from Edom, from the city of Bozrah, with his clothing stained red? Who is this in royal robes, marching in his great strength? "It is I, the LORD, announcing your salvation! It is I, the LORD, who has the power to save!" He will be covered in blood fighting in the middle-east. The names mentioned in the final battle are all current muslims countries.
I disagree with the notion that the Anti-Christ will rule the world. The bible talks about the middle-east, Daniel 11:39 shows that there are stronger nations that the anti-christ will attack: "Claiming this foreign god's help, he will attack the strongest fortresses. He will honor those who submit to him, appointing them to positions of authority and dividing the land among them as their reward." This is clearly referring to the US as it is , along with Israel, the main target of Islamic terrorism.
Notice the use of the word submit. This is where you can start drawing parallels between Islam and the Anti-Christ. Remember, Islam means submission. Your life is spared when you submit to Allah.
In Islam, you have the concept of the Mehdi. He is said to unite the muslim world, rule over Jerusalem and usher 7 years of "peace". Mohamad said that the Mehdi will have his spirit (this is from the hadith). All muslims believe him to be their savior.
It gets interesting now, in the bible Daniel 9:27 SPECIFICALLY mentions this: "The ruler will make a treaty with the people for a period of one set of seven, but after half this time, he will put an end to the sacrifices and offerings. And as a climax to all his terrible deeds, he will set up a sacrilegious object that causes desecration, until the fate decreed for this defiler is finally poured out on him."
The roles are reversed. The Christian's Anti-Christ is the Islamic messiah and vice versa. What is good is evil and what is evil is good. Just as the bible says will happen on the last days. Islam is diametrically opposed to Christianity and it is clear to me that the anti-christ will be a Muslim caliphate. More on this next post.
We can look closer at the the links between the Anti-Christ and Islam. One of the best commentator on this topic is ex-muslims christian convert Walid Shoebat, I recommend reading his book: God's war on terror.
This is not a new concept by any means, plenty have called out Islam to be a satanic religion. John of Damascus called Islam a christian heresy, Sophronius of Jerusalem denounced the siege on his home by the muslims calling them the antichrist. Others like Sir Robert Anderson and John wesley also came to the same conclusion when examining Islam.
If you look at the bible, a few things become clear about the Anti-Christ. One crucial verse is 1 John 2:22-24: "Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist--denying the Father and the Son". Islam denies the son and the trinity. It denies the main concepts of Christianity, namely the death and resurrection of Jesus and his divinity.
The location of the conflict is also indicated. In Isaiah 19:1 it says, "A prophecy against Egypt: See, the LORD rides on a swift cloud and is coming to Egypt. The idols of Egypt tremble before him, and the hearts of the Egyptians melt with fear."
In Egypt the Christians copts are persecuted and killed daily. This is predicted in Isaiah 19:20: " It will be a sign and a witness that the LORD of Heaven's Armies is worshiped in the land of Egypt. When the people cry to the LORD for help against those who oppress them, he will send them a mighty saviour."
As one poster here noted, Jesus will be coming to fight for Christians. Isaiah 63 says: "Who is this who comes from Edom, from the city of Bozrah, with his clothing stained red? Who is this in royal robes, marching in his great strength? "It is I, the LORD, announcing your salvation! It is I, the LORD, who has the power to save!" He will be covered in blood fighting in the middle-east. The names mentioned in the final battle are all current muslims countries.
I disagree with the notion that the Anti-Christ will rule the world. The bible talks about the middle-east, Daniel 11:39 shows that there are stronger nations that the anti-christ will attack: "Claiming this foreign god's help, he will attack the strongest fortresses. He will honor those who submit to him, appointing them to positions of authority and dividing the land among them as their reward." This is clearly referring to the US as it is , along with Israel, the main target of Islamic terrorism.
Notice the use of the word submit. This is where you can start drawing parallels between Islam and the Anti-Christ. Remember, Islam means submission. Your life is spared when you submit to Allah.
In Islam, you have the concept of the Mehdi. He is said to unite the muslim world, rule over Jerusalem and usher 7 years of "peace". Mohamad said that the Mehdi will have his spirit (this is from the hadith). All muslims believe him to be their savior.
It gets interesting now, in the bible Daniel 9:27 SPECIFICALLY mentions this: "The ruler will make a treaty with the people for a period of one set of seven, but after half this time, he will put an end to the sacrifices and offerings. And as a climax to all his terrible deeds, he will set up a sacrilegious object that causes desecration, until the fate decreed for this defiler is finally poured out on him."
The roles are reversed. The Christian's Anti-Christ is the Islamic messiah and vice versa. What is good is evil and what is evil is good. Just as the bible says will happen on the last days. Islam is diametrically opposed to Christianity and it is clear to me that the anti-christ will be a Muslim caliphate. More on this next post.
Quote: (04-19-2016 05:53 PM)syrianguy Wrote:
If you look at the bible, a few things become clear about the Anti-Christ. One crucial verse is 1 John 2:22-24: "Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist--denying the Father and the Son". Islam denies the son and the trinity. It denies the main concepts of Christianity, namely the death and resurrection of Jesus and his divinity.
We do not deny Jesus, we accept him as the prophet...the prophet of nazareth. Gods prophet. We deny he was his son physically. God is one...he is not a greek mythical god who begots and gets someone pregnant.
The people who deny jesus categorically is the jews...that should be clear but to some people it is not for some reason.
Out of all the religions that cover the earth Islam is the only one that recognizes jesus. So you should re-think this, and figure out who hates jesus the most and go from there.
Quote: (04-19-2016 05:53 PM)syrianguy Wrote:
As one poster here noted, Jesus will be coming to fight for Christians. Isaiah 63 says: "Who is this who comes from Edom, from the city of Bozrah, with his clothing stained red? Who is this in royal robes, marching in his great strength? "It is I, the LORD, announcing your salvation! It is I, the LORD, who has the power to save!" He will be covered in blood fighting in the middle-east. The names mentioned in the final battle are all current muslims countries.
He fights in the middle east because he will join mehdis army there. It is because the muslim countries will be under attack...and we are seeing that being played out now. He is not coming to join team hillary and co and help them blow up the muslim countries, he will do the opposite.
Quote: (04-19-2016 05:53 PM)syrianguy Wrote:me too. we do not believe he will rule the world.
I disagree with the notion that the Anti-Christ will rule the world.
Quote: (04-19-2016 05:53 PM)syrianguy Wrote:
In Islam, you have the concept of the Mehdi. He is said to unite the muslim world, rule over Jerusalem and usher 7 years of "peace". Mohamad said that the Mehdi will have his spirit (this is from the hadith). All muslims believe him to be their savior.
Yeh this is more or less true, it is either 3 or 7 years, but after that time the anti-christ will appear and it will be war time again, and this is the time jesus will return to us.
Quote: (04-19-2016 05:53 PM)syrianguy Wrote:
The roles are reversed. The Christian's Anti-Christ is the Islamic messiah and vice versa. What is good is evil and what is evil is good. Just as the bible says will happen on the last days. Islam is diametrically opposed to Christianity and it is clear to me that the anti-christ will be a Muslim caliphate. More on this next post.
Well you got it all backward, but still one thing is for sure. When the anti-christ comes he will claim to be god all powerful. When jesus comes he will claim to be only jesus and not god himself. So I'm not sure who will side with based on just that.
Islam is diametrically opposed to the jews. The quran and hadith tell us that the enemy will be the jews...not the christians. This was common knowledge before.
I do not think you know who your enemy is, remember they are the ones who always 'lie'
Quote: (04-19-2016 06:48 PM)doodlebug786 Wrote:
Quote: (04-19-2016 05:53 PM)syrianguy Wrote:
If you look at the bible, a few things become clear about the Anti-Christ. One crucial verse is 1 John 2:22-24: "Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist--denying the Father and the Son". Islam denies the son and the trinity. It denies the main concepts of Christianity, namely the death and resurrection of Jesus and his divinity.
We do not deny Jesus, we accept him as the prophet...the prophet of nazareth. Gods prophet. We deny he was his son physically. God is one...he is not a greek mythical god who begots and gets someone pregnant.
The people who deny jesus categorically is the jews...that should be clear but to some people it is not for some reason.
Out of all the religions that cover the earth Islam is the only one that recognizes jesus. So you should re-think this, and figure out who hates jesus the most and go from there.
Quote: (04-19-2016 05:53 PM)syrianguy Wrote:
As one poster here noted, Jesus will be coming to fight for Christians. Isaiah 63 says: "Who is this who comes from Edom, from the city of Bozrah, with his clothing stained red? Who is this in royal robes, marching in his great strength? "It is I, the LORD, announcing your salvation! It is I, the LORD, who has the power to save!" He will be covered in blood fighting in the middle-east. The names mentioned in the final battle are all current muslims countries.
He fights in the middle east because he will join mehdis army there. It is because the muslim countries will be under attack...and we are seeing that being played out now. He is not coming to join team hillary and co and help them blow up the muslim countries, he will do the opposite.
Quote: (04-19-2016 05:53 PM)syrianguy Wrote:me too. we do not believe he will rule the world.
I disagree with the notion that the Anti-Christ will rule the world.
Quote: (04-19-2016 05:53 PM)syrianguy Wrote:
In Islam, you have the concept of the Mehdi. He is said to unite the muslim world, rule over Jerusalem and usher 7 years of "peace". Mohamad said that the Mehdi will have his spirit (this is from the hadith). All muslims believe him to be their savior.
Yeh this is more or less true, it is either 3 or 7 years, but after that time the anti-christ will appear and it will be war time again, and this is the time jesus will return to us.
Quote: (04-19-2016 05:53 PM)syrianguy Wrote:
The roles are reversed. The Christian's Anti-Christ is the Islamic messiah and vice versa. What is good is evil and what is evil is good. Just as the bible says will happen on the last days. Islam is diametrically opposed to Christianity and it is clear to me that the anti-christ will be a Muslim caliphate. More on this next post.
Well you got wrong, but still one thing is for sure. When the anti-christ comes he will claim to be god all powerful. When jesus comes he will claim to be only jesus and not god himself. So I'm not sure who you will side with based on just that.
Islam is diametrically opposed to the jews. The quran and hadith tell us that the enemy will be the jews...not the christians. This was common knowledge before.
I do not think you know who your enemy is, remember they are the ones who always 'lie'
More connecting the dots:
The bible warns against the worship of false idols. It says not to worship Artemis and her image that fell from heaven. This is interpreted as being a meteor. The same kind as the black stone (meteor) currently worshiped, touched and kissed by muslims at the Kabaa. The bible uses the word image again in revelation, this time to describe the image of the beast. You will be asked to bow to the image of the beast or be slain. It is said the image will be given life and speak. This is not a futuristic microship you will be bowing to, it is the black stone in Mecca.
Coincidentally, Islam's day of resurrection is marked by the stone being given 2 eyes and a tongue and will testify for Allah. It is also said to be the right hand of Allah.
In Daniels, it talks about the anti-christ honoring a god of fortresses ( god of war) and he will honor him with gold and silver which the anti-christ will have in abundance. ISIS (the only muslims who seem to have read their books) will prohibit the hoarding of gold and silver as it is taken as zakat or "charity" to advance Islam i.e for war. ISIS might seem small however it has powerful backers and the anti-christ is said to only need a small group to rise as per Daniels 11:23 "After coming to an agreement with him, he will act deceitfully, and with only a few people he will rise to power."
In fact, Zakat is one of the five major pillars of Islam. Donating gold and silver to Allah for the advancement of Islam is mandatory.
Islam's creed, what you see when they are savagely demonstrating, is Islam to the world. Islam wants to takeover countries and change the rules and the law. Look at Daniels 7-25 : "The Anti-christ will speak against the Most High and oppress the saints and try to change the set times and the laws”. Islam is the only answer here as it seeks to wants to change the law by implementing sharia law and change the calendar (set times) to the Hijrah muslim date which began 622AD marking mohamad's conquest of Medina (further emphasis on the religion and god of war).
As for the mark of the beast, if you look at the picture from the manuscript Codex Vaticanus 350 A.D (it was written in alphabets) and then compare it to Bism allah (in the name of allah) that muslims wear:
![[Image: islam-666.jpg]](https://redmoonrapture.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/islam-666.jpg)
The evidence fits perfectly, moreover, it is more relevant to our reality than any other interpretation I have read. Islam is the exact opposite of the bible, it is it's anti. Similar to playing a tape backward. Mohamad himself wasn't sure if he was visited by an angel or a demon. Angelic visits in the bible make their presence known by telling the recipient not to be afraid. In contrast, mohamad was strangled by the entity and suffered seizures and was suicidal after.
The bible warns against the worship of false idols. It says not to worship Artemis and her image that fell from heaven. This is interpreted as being a meteor. The same kind as the black stone (meteor) currently worshiped, touched and kissed by muslims at the Kabaa. The bible uses the word image again in revelation, this time to describe the image of the beast. You will be asked to bow to the image of the beast or be slain. It is said the image will be given life and speak. This is not a futuristic microship you will be bowing to, it is the black stone in Mecca.
Coincidentally, Islam's day of resurrection is marked by the stone being given 2 eyes and a tongue and will testify for Allah. It is also said to be the right hand of Allah.
In Daniels, it talks about the anti-christ honoring a god of fortresses ( god of war) and he will honor him with gold and silver which the anti-christ will have in abundance. ISIS (the only muslims who seem to have read their books) will prohibit the hoarding of gold and silver as it is taken as zakat or "charity" to advance Islam i.e for war. ISIS might seem small however it has powerful backers and the anti-christ is said to only need a small group to rise as per Daniels 11:23 "After coming to an agreement with him, he will act deceitfully, and with only a few people he will rise to power."
In fact, Zakat is one of the five major pillars of Islam. Donating gold and silver to Allah for the advancement of Islam is mandatory.
Islam's creed, what you see when they are savagely demonstrating, is Islam to the world. Islam wants to takeover countries and change the rules and the law. Look at Daniels 7-25 : "The Anti-christ will speak against the Most High and oppress the saints and try to change the set times and the laws”. Islam is the only answer here as it seeks to wants to change the law by implementing sharia law and change the calendar (set times) to the Hijrah muslim date which began 622AD marking mohamad's conquest of Medina (further emphasis on the religion and god of war).
As for the mark of the beast, if you look at the picture from the manuscript Codex Vaticanus 350 A.D (it was written in alphabets) and then compare it to Bism allah (in the name of allah) that muslims wear:
The evidence fits perfectly, moreover, it is more relevant to our reality than any other interpretation I have read. Islam is the exact opposite of the bible, it is it's anti. Similar to playing a tape backward. Mohamad himself wasn't sure if he was visited by an angel or a demon. Angelic visits in the bible make their presence known by telling the recipient not to be afraid. In contrast, mohamad was strangled by the entity and suffered seizures and was suicidal after.
Quote: (04-19-2016 07:07 PM)syrianguy Wrote:Just like a christian will touch and kiss a cross. Muslims dont worship the black stone, we touch and kiss it. Only god can be worshiped that is pretty clear in Islam.
More connecting the dots:
The bible warns against the worship of false idols. It says not to worship Artemis and her image that fell from heaven. This is interpreted as being a meteor. The same kind as the black stone (meteor) currently worshiped, touched and kissed by muslims at the Kabaa.
So that is wrong.
Quote: (04-19-2016 07:07 PM)syrianguy Wrote:
The bible uses the word image again in revelation, this time to describe the image of the beast. You will be asked to bow to the image of the beast or be slain. It is said the image will be given life and speak. This is not a futuristic microship you will be bowing to, it is the black stone in Mecca.
Coincidentally, Islam's day of resurrection is marked by the stone being given 2 eyes and a tongue and will testify for Allah. It is also said to be the right hand of Allah.
How is the black stone a beast? grasping at straws now. Does the black stone say to bow down or be slain? i never heard it say that when I visited it.
On day of resurrection everything will be able to testify for or against you. eg. trees, mountains...you name it...not just the black stone.
Quote: (04-19-2016 07:07 PM)syrianguy Wrote:Well most people know that ISIS is run by the west. So lets not bring that into it.
In Daniels, it talks about the anti-christ honoring a god of fortresses ( god of war) and he will honor him with gold and silver which the anti-christ will have in abundance. ISIS (the only muslims who seem to have read their books) will prohibit the hoarding of gold and silver as it is taken as zakat or "charity" to advance Islam i.e for war. ISIS might seem small however it has powerful backers and the anti-christ is said to only need a small group to rise as per Daniels 11:23 "After coming to an agreement with him, he will act deceitfully, and with only a few people he will rise to power."
Quote: (04-19-2016 07:07 PM)syrianguy Wrote:Yep true on that one. Gold and Silver is real money for muslims and always will be. It is the bankers and other shady groups that came up with paper money and messed up the world. But that is another topic altogether
In fact, Zakat is one of the five major pillars of Islam. Donating gold and silver to Allah for the advancement of Islam is mandatory.
Quote: (04-19-2016 07:07 PM)syrianguy Wrote:Well cannot really disagree here. Most muslims do wish the world followed sharia law and the calendar was bought back based on the moon and sun.
Islam's creed, what you see when they are savagely demonstrating, is Islam to the world. Islam wants to takeover countries and change the rules and the law. Look at Daniels 7-25 : "The Anti-christ will speak against the Most High and oppress the saints and try to change the set times and the laws”. Islam is the only answer here as it seeks to wants to change the law by implementing sharia law and change the calendar (set times) to the Hijrah muslim date which began 622AD marking mohamad's conquest of Medina (further emphasis on the religion and god of war).
Quote: (04-19-2016 07:07 PM)syrianguy Wrote:That writing does not say Bism allah. dude, where did you get this from? In fact there is no letter 'B' in there at all.
As for the mark of the beast, if you look at the picture from the manuscript Codex Vaticanus 350 A.D (it was written in alphabets) and then compare it to Bism allah (in the name of allah) that muslims wear:
Quote: (04-19-2016 07:07 PM)syrianguy Wrote:I don't think you have read the quran yourself. probably just googled it.
The evidence fits perfectly, moreover, it is more relevant to our reality than any other interpretation I have read. Islam is the exact opposite of the bible, it is it's anti. Similar to playing a tape backward. Mohamad himself wasn't sure if he was visited by an angel or a demon. Angelic visits in the bible make their presence known by telling the recipient not to be afraid. In contrast, mohamad was strangled by the entity and suffered seizures and was suicidal after.
Mohammad was quite sure he was visited by angel gabriel. and he wasnt suicidal. dude i dunno where u get this stuff from.
doodlebug786 seems to know his stuff. Makes a change to the usually one sided debates that are had when it comes to Islam.
Sure, he knows a lot, LOL. Salman Rushdie just decided to make up a novel ? It was based on reality---the hadith. He's never heard of the Satanic Verses? They wanted to kill his ass for it. Like anyone who tells the truth about barbaric people.
Let's just be clear, anyone who thinks Muhammad was a good example, and actually argues it, is almost as mad as Mo himself was. This is the reason why Islam is a problem and also why it will never be anything but dangerous and primitive.
Let's just be clear, anyone who thinks Muhammad was a good example, and actually argues it, is almost as mad as Mo himself was. This is the reason why Islam is a problem and also why it will never be anything but dangerous and primitive.
This guy follows me around too much. What a joke of a rebuttal, I love how he acts like an authority on Islamic texts yet doesn't know any of the stuff in the hadith. Lacks reading comprehension, doesn't understand symbolism and doesn't provide anything to back up his arguments. All that comes out is mindless dribbles written off the top of his head with no research whatsoever. This isn't about what YOU think Islam is, it is about what's written in the sources. Not to mention derailing the thread into christianity vs Islam due to his complete ignorance on basic christian concepts. All the facts that I have stated are easily found and verified, the only mental exercise on my part is extrapolating the biblical anti-christ to Islam i.e the reason this thread exists something completely missed by our friend.
I am not sure if this is denial, trolling or he is simply a taquiya agent. Either way not worth my time since my reply requires effort while his are lazy dishonest diversions.
I am not sure if this is denial, trolling or he is simply a taquiya agent. Either way not worth my time since my reply requires effort while his are lazy dishonest diversions.
Quote: (04-21-2016 09:57 PM)syrianguy Wrote:
This guy follows me around too much. What a joke of a rebuttal, I love how he acts like an authority on Islamic texts yet doesn't know any of the stuff in the hadith. Lacks reading comprehension, doesn't understand symbolism and doesn't provide anything to back up his arguments. All that comes out is mindless dribbles written off the top of his head with no research whatsoever. This isn't about what YOU think Islam is, it is about what's written in the sources. Not to mention derailing the thread into christianity vs Islam due to his complete ignorance on basic christian concepts. All the facts that I have stated are easily found and verified, the only mental exercise on my part is extrapolating the biblical anti-christ to Islam i.e the reason this thread exists something completely missed by our friend.
I am not sure if this is denial, trolling or he is simply a taquiya agent. Either way not worth my time since my reply requires effort while his are lazy dishonest diversions.
Dude, if you think what i said is dribble then good on you. Everything you said is nonsense. You cannot even read arabic, so my question is who are you?? you are not from Syria if you cannot read arabic. Why are you named Syrianguy??? I;ve never met a syrian who cant read arabic. who are you? How is it you post something up making yourself look like you know all about it when you cant even read it. you are the joke sir. Anyone can find stuff on the internet to make any religion look bad. Christian, hindus, muslims, jews, buddhist. you name it....don't fight just for the sake of fighting....be logical and open otherwise you will continue to be messed up. if you can back anything up then lets see it...i'm pretty sure I can handle it.
Syrianguy, Doodlebug's beef is legit, if you can't actually read arabic, then your theory about that arab ninja bandana scribble is weak sauce, unless you state your sources.
This is not an academic forum, but you've got to maintain a semblance of rigor if you're going to take on someone and call him a troll, lest you lose credibility...
This is not an academic forum, but you've got to maintain a semblance of rigor if you're going to take on someone and call him a troll, lest you lose credibility...
“Nothing is more useful than to look upon the world as it really is.”
nah I will let people research and judge for themselves. Nice ad-hominem, you have really mastered debating online. By the way, I read my bible in arabic. How about you tell us about yourself?
About the picture, that's the shahadat: "no god but allah mohamad his prophet" = La-Ilah-Ila-ALLAH mohmad rasoule allah. I have put in bold the part shown in red. Keep in mind this is written in fancy arabic calligraphy. Similar writing is made with swords and the word bism (in the name) forming Bismillah= in the name of allah. (If you want me to spell it out for you the letter b is shown without the usual dot underneath followed by the s and finally m)
![[Image: Bismillah.jpg]](http://www.lasttrumpet.org/Bismillah.jpg)
the letters below are the greek 666. From wikipedia: "Some manuscripts of the original Greek use the symbols χξϛ chi xi stigma (or ϝ digamma), while other manuscripts spell out the number in words."
Both apply the same and the argument doesn't change one bit whether it's part of the shahadat caligraphy or bismillah.
About the picture, that's the shahadat: "no god but allah mohamad his prophet" = La-Ilah-Ila-ALLAH mohmad rasoule allah. I have put in bold the part shown in red. Keep in mind this is written in fancy arabic calligraphy. Similar writing is made with swords and the word bism (in the name) forming Bismillah= in the name of allah. (If you want me to spell it out for you the letter b is shown without the usual dot underneath followed by the s and finally m)
the letters below are the greek 666. From wikipedia: "Some manuscripts of the original Greek use the symbols χξϛ chi xi stigma (or ϝ digamma), while other manuscripts spell out the number in words."
Both apply the same and the argument doesn't change one bit whether it's part of the shahadat caligraphy or bismillah.
The guy agrees on most of my points. Aside from questioning my arabic, I am not sure what is there to argue really. He just believes Islam is the ultimate universal authority, which is fine but he doesn't actually quote from it.
Sure I could go over the importance of the holy trinity. How denying it nulls the new testament completely which is why it is viewed as heresy. I could bring the Islamic view of Jesus being replaced in the last second with someone else because Islam thinks that a prophet dying translates to Allah being defeated. Allah is said to have tricked the world, after all one of his names is khairul makirin: the greatest of deceivers. Somehow muslims think that Jesus running is less cowardly than him dying for our sins.
By the way, holy trinity according to the koran consists of god, jesus and mary. That's what mohamad thought. You can't reconcile ignorance of this scale.
Then you have the black stone, worshiped by pagan for centuries before Islam, which is a singular object of specific importance in Islam. He compares it to the cross that's a common symbol of the Crucifixion representing Jesus??!! Do Christians have one giant cross that we bow in it's direction ? I have to pretend I am talking to a teenager to explain the difference here.
The guy thinks Islamic extremism is all a CIA conspiracy that doesn't exist. Yes, the CIA employs all those muslims extremists and they probably wrote down all the violent verses in the Koran too. This is personally insulting as christians like me are slaughtered in the middle-east and all over the world wherever muslims are present.
Sure I could go over the importance of the holy trinity. How denying it nulls the new testament completely which is why it is viewed as heresy. I could bring the Islamic view of Jesus being replaced in the last second with someone else because Islam thinks that a prophet dying translates to Allah being defeated. Allah is said to have tricked the world, after all one of his names is khairul makirin: the greatest of deceivers. Somehow muslims think that Jesus running is less cowardly than him dying for our sins.
By the way, holy trinity according to the koran consists of god, jesus and mary. That's what mohamad thought. You can't reconcile ignorance of this scale.
Then you have the black stone, worshiped by pagan for centuries before Islam, which is a singular object of specific importance in Islam. He compares it to the cross that's a common symbol of the Crucifixion representing Jesus??!! Do Christians have one giant cross that we bow in it's direction ? I have to pretend I am talking to a teenager to explain the difference here.
The guy thinks Islamic extremism is all a CIA conspiracy that doesn't exist. Yes, the CIA employs all those muslims extremists and they probably wrote down all the violent verses in the Koran too. This is personally insulting as christians like me are slaughtered in the middle-east and all over the world wherever muslims are present.
Quote: (04-21-2016 11:53 PM)911 Wrote:
Syrianguy, Doodlebug's beef is legit, if you can't actually read arabic, then your theory about that arab ninja bandana scribble is weak sauce, unless you state your sources.
This is not an academic forum, but you've got to maintain a semblance of rigor if you're going to take on someone and call him a troll, lest you lose credibility...
Like I said I read arabic and speak it daily. It's not my theory I quoted the source, it's coming from an ex-muslim palestinian who doesn't have any problem with arabic either...
Just a reminder, this is just extrapolating bible prophecies to match with Islam. It is simply a theory just like the thousands of revelation theories out there. I just happen to believe this one which is what I am presenting. As far as what I am quoting from the bible and the inferences from islamic scriptures, those are all in the texts.
Quote: (04-21-2016 02:40 AM)doodlebug786 Wrote:
Quote: (04-19-2016 07:07 PM)syrianguy Wrote:Just like a christian will touch and kiss a cross. Muslims dont worship the black stone, we touch and kiss it. Only god can be worshiped that is pretty clear in Islam.
More connecting the dots:
The bible warns against the worship of false idols. It says not to worship Artemis and her image that fell from heaven. This is interpreted as being a meteor. The same kind as the black stone (meteor) currently worshiped, touched and kissed by muslims at the Kabaa.
So that is wrong.
Quote: (04-19-2016 07:07 PM)syrianguy Wrote:
The bible uses the word image again in revelation, this time to describe the image of the beast. You will be asked to bow to the image of the beast or be slain. It is said the image will be given life and speak. This is not a futuristic microship you will be bowing to, it is the black stone in Mecca.
Coincidentally, Islam's day of resurrection is marked by the stone being given 2 eyes and a tongue and will testify for Allah. It is also said to be the right hand of Allah.
How is the black stone a beast? grasping at straws now. Does the black stone say to bow down or be slain? i never heard it say that when I visited it.
On day of resurrection everything will be able to testify for or against you. eg. trees, mountains...you name it...not just the black stone.
Quote: (04-19-2016 07:07 PM)syrianguy Wrote:Well most people know that ISIS is run by the west. So lets not bring that into it.
In Daniels, it talks about the anti-christ honoring a god of fortresses ( god of war) and he will honor him with gold and silver which the anti-christ will have in abundance. ISIS (the only muslims who seem to have read their books) will prohibit the hoarding of gold and silver as it is taken as zakat or "charity" to advance Islam i.e for war. ISIS might seem small however it has powerful backers and the anti-christ is said to only need a small group to rise as per Daniels 11:23 "After coming to an agreement with him, he will act deceitfully, and with only a few people he will rise to power."
Quote: (04-19-2016 07:07 PM)syrianguy Wrote:Yep true on that one. Gold and Silver is real money for muslims and always will be. It is the bankers and other shady groups that came up with paper money and messed up the world. But that is another topic altogether
In fact, Zakat is one of the five major pillars of Islam. Donating gold and silver to Allah for the advancement of Islam is mandatory.
Quote: (04-19-2016 07:07 PM)syrianguy Wrote:Well cannot really disagree here. Most muslims do wish the world followed sharia law and the calendar was bought back based on the moon and sun.
Islam's creed, what you see when they are savagely demonstrating, is Islam to the world. Islam wants to takeover countries and change the rules and the law. Look at Daniels 7-25 : "The Anti-christ will speak against the Most High and oppress the saints and try to change the set times and the laws”. Islam is the only answer here as it seeks to wants to change the law by implementing sharia law and change the calendar (set times) to the Hijrah muslim date which began 622AD marking mohamad's conquest of Medina (further emphasis on the religion and god of war).
Quote: (04-19-2016 07:07 PM)syrianguy Wrote:That writing does not say Bism allah. dude, where did you get this from? In fact there is no letter 'B' in there at all.
As for the mark of the beast, if you look at the picture from the manuscript Codex Vaticanus 350 A.D (it was written in alphabets) and then compare it to Bism allah (in the name of allah) that muslims wear:
Quote: (04-19-2016 07:07 PM)syrianguy Wrote:I don't think you have read the quran yourself. probably just googled it.
The evidence fits perfectly, moreover, it is more relevant to our reality than any other interpretation I have read. Islam is the exact opposite of the bible, it is it's anti. Similar to playing a tape backward. Mohamad himself wasn't sure if he was visited by an angel or a demon. Angelic visits in the bible make their presence known by telling the recipient not to be afraid. In contrast, mohamad was strangled by the entity and suffered seizures and was suicidal after.
Mohammad was quite sure he was visited by angel gabriel. and he wasnt suicidal. dude i dunno where u get this stuff from.
Quote: (04-21-2016 08:19 PM)Geeza Wrote:
doodlebug786 seems to know his stuff. Makes a change to the usually one sided debates that are had when it comes to Islam.
If you have an argument, make it and cite your scriptureas proof of the contrary. So far both of your posts come off like this:
![[Image: 66832c89eed4041fb7722dfdd4a59015.460x276x1.jpg]](http://images.rapgenius.com/66832c89eed4041fb7722dfdd4a59015.460x276x1.jpg)
Syrianguy, as you know, the key to all of this is my former post. I have studied and know the history (we are probably from the same tradition, wink wink), and consequently, I have come to realize that the very best way (and you can even do this in public to a certain point) is to ask about Muhammad's actions, deeds, and "traditions." They cannot be defended by anyone who seeks goodness, truth and beauty. They are (de)based on everything that is in fact wrong with this world: killing, coercion, sex and slave possession, etc. What's more, in claiming he is the best example (it is mentioned up to 90 times in the Quran), they cannot according to their own theology, say that it was only appropriate at that time. Their actions currently also confirm this.
It is not a coincidence that a holy person, St. John of Damascus, called it "ο προδρομος του αντιχριστου"
You are correct in not wasting your time further. Theirs is the path of destruction, and I don't feel good saying that, one bit. But it is the truth.
It is not a coincidence that a holy person, St. John of Damascus, called it "ο προδρομος του αντιχριστου"
You are correct in not wasting your time further. Theirs is the path of destruction, and I don't feel good saying that, one bit. But it is the truth.
Quote: (04-22-2016 12:44 AM)syrianguy Wrote:
nah I will let people research and judge for themselves. Nice ad-hominem, you have really mastered debating online. By the way, I read my bible in arabic. How about you tell us about yourself?
About the picture, that's the shahadat: "no god but allah mohamad his prophet" = La-Ilah-Ila-ALLAH mohmad rasoule allah. I have put in bold the part shown in red. Keep in mind this is written in fancy arabic calligraphy. Similar writing is made with swords and the word bism (in the name) forming Bismillah= in the name of allah. (If you want me to spell it out for you the letter b is shown without the usual dot underneath followed by the s and finally m)
the letters below are the greek 666. From wikipedia: "Some manuscripts of the original Greek use the symbols χξϛ chi xi stigma (or ϝ digamma), while other manuscripts spell out the number in words."
Both apply the same and the argument doesn't change one bit whether it's part of the shahadat caligraphy or bismillah.
What the heck dude?!?! So you can read arabic, yet you tell everyone that the ninja bandana reads bismillah (in red) when you KNEW it didnt. man that is low.
and now u try cover yourself by bringing up this crappy calligraphy painted by who knows who which has absolutely no meaning at all and try and link it to some greek number by twisting and moving letters around....and then saying its satan. for goodness sake that is the dumbest thing i have seen all year and I seen my share of dumb.
and even that caligraphy doesnt make sense...how does it say bismillah...where is the s?
enough bro enough.
It's like me asking my son to do a calligraphy of the word 'jesus' or 'mary' and tell him to draw it however he wants and then we match it up with the korean symbols of 666 and then post on the internet that jesus is satan.
Grow up dude. Be honest with yourself at least.
Quote: (04-21-2016 02:40 AM)doodlebug786 Wrote:
I don't think you have read the quran yourself. probably just googled it.
Mohammad was quite sure he was visited by angel gabriel. and he wasnt suicidal. dude i dunno where u get this stuff from.
Whoa. Hold the phone. I had to put my glasses on to make sure I read correctly what you wrote. You're giving Syrianguy a hard time telling him to "be honest with himself". Man, you need to be honest with yourself.
This issue of suicide is not nonsense and it is not in the Quran. It's in the Hadith. It's a fact that it is written from three different biographers Mohammed contemplated suicide, and was on the verge of doing so multiple times. Whether from depression, sadness, or demonic posession. One report is from Sahih al Bukhari, who is highly regarded by Islamic scholars. Even if you as an individual man reject the Hadiths, there is consensus among Islamic leaders, especially the Sunni kind who like to encourage people to blow themselves up, that the Hadiths must be trusted and used to compliment the Quran.
This aspect of the life of Mohammed, is something that you as a Muslim must contend with, whether you believe the Hadiths or not. Because that is what was written. To not do so, and to say Mohammed "wasn't suicidal" is being very dishonest. We're talking about a historical figure who Muslims past, present, and future are looking to guide them on a path to salvation and whose life is upheld in high regard.
So, do you care to actually explain this to people and not dismiss it?
Dreams are like horses; they run wild on the earth. Catch one and ride it. Throw a leg over and ride it for all its worth.
Psalm 25:7
https://youtu.be/vHVoMCH10Wk
Quote: (04-27-2016 09:39 AM)Spectrumwalker Wrote:
Whoa. Hold the phone. I had to put my glasses on to make sure I read correctly what you wrote. You're giving Syrianguy a hard time telling him to "be honest with himself". Man, you need to be honest with yourself.
This issue of suicide is not nonsense and it is not in the Quran. It's in the Hadith. It's a fact that it is written from three different biographers Mohammed contemplated suicide, and was on the verge of doing so multiple times. Whether from depression, sadness, or demonic posession. One report is from Sahih al Bukhari, who is highly regarded by Islamic scholars. Even if you as an individual man reject the Hadiths, there is consensus among Islamic leaders, especially the Sunni kind who like to encourage people to blow themselves up, that the Hadiths must be trusted and used to compliment the Quran.
This aspect of the life of Mohammed, is something that you as a Muslim must contend with, whether you believe the Hadiths or not. Because that is what was written. To not do so, and to say Mohammed "wasn't suicidal" is being very dishonest. We're talking about a historical figure who Muslims past, present, and future are looking to guide them on a path to salvation and whose life is upheld in high regard.
So, do you care to actually explain this to people and not dismiss it?
Fair enough, but at least you have to show me the source....so far you provided nothing. So you say it is in the hadith of Bukhari, you need to show me.
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