[1026]

OG

You didn't lose a friends with benefits because of not helping her transport a couch.

It probably was coming regardless.

Either way, let go of the guilt & regret man.
That stuff never helps.

In an alternate universe, OG you've opened up a thread announcing the pitfalls of doing women favours & how after hours of labour, struggling with a mouldy couch.

You're reward was 1 more session of tepid sex, a friend zone & subsequent fade out.

Charge it to Game.

PS it's winter where you are, maybe that's what's driving up the value of this so called 6.5...

[kaotic]

(01-28-2016 01:56 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

Postscript:

Okay thanks for the great replies, I think there were nuggets of wisdom and truth in everyones posts, at the end of the day I went with how I was feeling. I basically tried to strike a balance between being apologetic and holding frame, but without being weak, groveling, and supplicating. Told her that I'm sorry for making a big deal out of the whole situation, and that I didn't mean to come across as a dick, and that I'd like to help her.

Wouldn't of said any bit of that, even if I did sound like a dick? If anything just ask for an update on if she moved the couch.

Quote:

Basically she seemed butt hurt over the whole thing. I texted her in the evening last night asking if things "worked out smoothly", to which she took over an hour to reply and said "unfortunately no, but it's going to be fine". I kind of thought "what the fuck" since I specifically told her to let me know if the other person flaked or things didn't work out and that I'd come over right away to help out.

Your gut is right sensing she's butt hurt, anytime a girl says "it's going to be fine" it isn't.

You even said you'd be over right away, bad thing to say.

You were trying to put the fire out way to quick with her, Stalin's right, you've got some oneitis.

Quote:

I tried calling her, but she didn't answer, I then texted her offering to come over right then with my truck (it was like 8 pm) and load it up, to which she said "no it's okay my uncle is going to do it this weekend." That to me kind of made it seem like she just now intentionally doesn't want my help, like she's got a chip on her shoulder and holding a grudge.

You attempted twice to follow up with her. She was basically saying "I couldn't count on you, so I got someone else to do it"

She's absolutely butthurt and she'll hold it against you.

Quote:

I kind of figured asking her to hang out again would be a bust, but I did anyway, since we hadn't hung out since Wednesday of last week and the weekend was approaching. Basically said, "well the offer to help stands if you want to get it done sooner, and I'd like to take you out for a drink this week."

Your gut told you not to, but you did hit her anyways. ALWAYS list to your gut man, it's there for a reason. I get why you did, damage control.

That last part made me cringe, you're totally kissing her ass, that turns off girls.

Quote:

She said, "I have plans with friends this weekend, I'll have to get back to you." Which in my book basically translates to "sorry, I'm pissed at you, I'm not going to be hanging out with you again..." Usually she's always down and very enthusiastic to hang out whenever I suggest we do stuff. I said in my OP that she felt like she was getting a little distant, I only say that because she shot down the last time I suggested we hang out last Sunday with "sorry I can't tomorrow", but offered no explanation or alternative. Not exactly something too major or something to read into too much, but I guess years of dealing with the little games chicks play has got me thinking about every little thing and move like it's a chess match. This unconscious mode of operation, may be good in some ways, but detrimental in other ways.

TREAD CAREFULLY from here on out. You're right, every little thing is a calculated move dude.

She's basically pissed and told you to fuck off by being polite and saying she has plans. I always hear bitches say that if things don't go their way.

Quote:

Anyways, I felt bad yesterday and realized that I like this girl more than I realized since I was bothered by it, and was having some mild anxiety over the whole situation, which I realize is lame, but will still admit anyway. Aside from kicking myself for potentially ruining a good FWB situation, I kind of felt like a dick about the whole thing, and being a genuinely nice guy I did feel bad about it in that sense.

Bitches are a dime a dozen dude, you still didn't fall into her manipulation like most guys would, she didn't get her way, so she's mad, doubly so that you were even asking for more than the dump fee.

Can't feel bad, just have to learn a lesson on this. Nice guys don't get anywhere, being polite is different.

If you didn't feel like doing it, you could've framed it better. If you did feel like, then there's no harm.

Quote:

That said just so you guys know how I am as a person, I generally hate asking for people for favors, and will only do so in the most worst case scenario. I hate to sound like a person who is very focused on money, but anytime that I ask a favor from someone, especially if it's time consuming, or requires work, skill, tools, vehicles, etc. I will always throw the person some cash, even when it was not expected in the first place. Maybe my mode of thinking/operating unconsciously extends to people who ask me favors as well, like if I'm taking time out of my life to use my gas guzzling truck, and breaking my back to help move furniture, the least you can do is throw me some gas money.

I'm happy to help friends that I know I can count on in return, if it's for a girl in an LTR I don't mind, my indian plate asked me if I had any lugnut locks, she had a flat, I just simply said no, and she handled it herself.

Quote:

However I know this was not the correct way to react/behave with this chick, and it ended up backfiring, like I said after our conversation I kind of felt like I had been a dick and put out a bad vibe. I probably should've texted her back to reassure her that I was down to help, but just said fuck it and didn't want to overthink it too much. I guess my gut was right in that I did put out a bad vibe, which obviously rubbed her the wrong way.

Always trust your gut man.

I'm assuming this is a typo and you mean to say shouldn't of texted her.

Quote:

The way I'm looking at it now is that I apologized and was sincere about it, and she basically still wanted to act butt hurt, and reject my further offer to help her out, when as of right now she still needs the help. That couch is sitting out of her apartment complex getting drenched in the rain, when if she'd just forgiven and forgotten I could've cruised over last night and with her help loaded into the back of my truck.

Quote:

At this point I give it a 50/50 chance at best she'll hit me up after this weekend, but my gut tells me that it's over with her. Personally I know I kind of fucked up, but the fact that she couldn't accept my apology is kind of bull shit. If she wants to stop hanging out with me because I was weird about loading up her moldy old couch and taking it to the dump, then that is kind of whack in it's own right.

I'll probably wait it out through the weekend and then try to hit her up on Monday or Tuesday for one last ditch effort to see if she wants to hang out again. Either way I've mentally accepted that she'll most likely fade away and that I'm back to square one without any poonanie to smash on. I'm certainly not going to come off as needy and desperate and constantly hit her up, if she wants distance, then distance she will get.

Let her have her sissy fit, play it cool calm and collective, don't text her anymore. See if she reaches out with in a week, if she doesn't MAYBE send out a feeler text, if she's slow to response or doesn't. You know it's over.

Some conclusions I see:

-Like others observe, you have some oneitis
-You over analyzed the alpha/beta provider dichotimy too much
-Do things you want, but frame it right
-You panicked and didn't take a step back to analyze the situation


Player's sometimes fuck with their own heads because they fear being the beta provider or a man that a woman wants to use.

Thing is - if you want to do something for a girl, BECAUSE YOU WANT TO, then do it. If you don't, fuck it, don't.

Just make sure it's within reason.

[OGNorCal707]

Wow great replies everyone, I love the feed back, especially the criticism, this is why I still participate the forum. Everyone is pretty much spot on, I'm not going to bother hitting her up again, I did my bit to smooth things over and as stated I shouldn't have even bothered trying to in the first place. I don't want to be like "fuck her", but that's the best mentality to take, not in a bitter, jaded, and resentful way, but in the sense that she wasn't a serious relationship, and there are way hotter girls I'm attracted to, so no point in catching oneitis. If she hits me up in a week and wants the D again, I'll give it to her, if not then now I am free to concentrate my focus on finding other more attractive girls.

Aside from the good feedback for my own piece of mind, I think as someone stated this is just a good case study in the game and situations that will occur and potential ways to handle them.

[xxMarco]

(01-28-2016 03:59 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

These helpful behaviors define squares. Continually bailing out chicks of drama they create for themselves. She got it done anyway, so that means she has other minions. But she wanted HIM to do it..She wanted to exercise power over him.

WIA pretty accurate here. Been in both situations where I agreed and where I denied the favor to a girl I was banging.

The girl is basically trying to put you in a category of either potential LTR or someone who is just "using her". It seems like you caught some feelings for this girl so in your situation you should've done the favor if you wanted to keep her around.

In another situation you deny her the favor then she gets all butthurt, omg he doesn't give a shit about me blah blah he only wants to use me for my gold vagina. If the broad is going to choose up over moving a couch then I would just drop her, go cold, let her contact you first and just on to the next one. Don't skip a step, no apologies and forget about her.

This girl has other options of orbiters to help her move but she chose you because she saw you as someone who would potentially invest more in her.

Unrelated, I used to have a truck, all of a sudden I had a lot of "friends" that wanted to move shit, throw trash, buy stuff off craigslist, etc. I learned to only help my true friends who would do the same for me if I ever needed it.

Its not about being alpha, you made the decision, stick to it, don't apologize.

[Vincent Chase]

She was/is your fuck buddy not your girlfriend. Thinking about this the best course of action if you wanted to keep her at least as a fuck buddy and avoided all this fucking drama:
1) Ignored her. Texting her a couple of days later of something "amazing" you are doing.
2) Called her out on it. "I know I'm charming and amazing but am I also your builder now?" or some joke of you not being a german handyman as you're missing a moustache (any variation of this). She would have got the fucking message in an instant.

The root cause of all of this is a lack of abundance. If you genuinely had options you would care very little and probably naturally would have done either of the two above or would have said no as you did and ignored the crap she said about some guy that is helping her and would have maybe contacted her a week or so later.

Again I repeat she was/is your fuck buddy not your girlfriend. Little is lost.

Do not contact her. If she wants to see you she'll find an excuse to contact you in a week or two or longer in the future.

Meanwhile find new girls and get her off your mind.

[Beyond Borders]

Yeah, time to go dark for sure, OG. She's either milking it or she's done; either way, focus on something else for a while.

As another guy pointed out, she may be so butthurt because she wants you to be her boyfriend, and it's very likely you're in the unspoken ultimatum stage that eventually seals the death of so many fuck buddy situations eventually.

I'm sure you learned a few things from the experience and nailed some good ass. Take your ball and go home.

[HankMoody]

Never apologize for anything ever, even if you totally fucked up. It just makes matters worse.

You're better off losing her for being "such a dick" than losing her for doing something dickish and then begging for her forgiveness.

[kaotic]

Think of it this way - WWTD? (What would Trump do ?)

Not apologize or chase after her.

[Comte De St. Germain]

I think another thing you should pick up with this thread and what a lot of members bring up through their arguments, but don't explicitly say is consistency.

Fact of the matter is you portrayed an image to the girl you were banging, and odds are that image was confident. So you have to stay consistent with that image and be confident about accepting or declining her requests.

If anything I've noticed women hate inconsistency and finding out that they were deceived by the goods they invested sex into by proxy.

If you're making a decision in relation to women stay confident and consistent in your choices. Showing weakness/apologizing shouldn't even be on the table.

[WestIndianArchie]

This is such a rich topic.

The player angle here is to show that you will *consistently* NOT help her when she needs it.

You have one role in her life, fun and sex. She needs to go find a boyfriend if she wants a support system.

Commented last week on how useless chicks can be during a snowstorm. All she is there for is fucking.

The player needs to adopt that frame, and it smooths out a lot of the typical issues you run into when keeping a roster.

Every time you let your guard down in this regard, she comes to rely on you to her peril.

Better to be the cad who makes it up to her, than the chump she grows to resent.

WIA

(01-29-2016 10:42 AM)hwuzhere Wrote:  

I think another thing you should pick up with this thread and what a lot of members bring up through their arguments, but don't explicitly say is consistency.

Fact of the matter is you portrayed an image to the girl you were banging, and odds are that image was confident. So you have to stay consistent with that image and be confident about accepting or declining her requests.

If anything I've noticed women hate inconsistency and finding out that they were deceived by the goods they invested sex into by proxy.

If you're making a decision in relation to women stay confident and consistent in your choices. Showing weakness/apologizing shouldn't even be on the table.

[General Stalin]

hwuzhere Wrote:

I think another thing you should pick up with this thread and what a lot of members bring up through their arguments, but don't explicitly say is consistency.

Fact of the matter is you portrayed an image to the girl you were banging, and odds are that image was confident. So you have to stay consistent with that image and be confident about accepting or declining her requests.

If anything I've noticed women hate inconsistency and finding out that they were deceived by the goods they invested sex into by proxy.

If you're making a decision in relation to women stay confident and consistent in your choices. Showing weakness/apologizing shouldn't even be on the table.

I would narrow this down and elaborate on this and say women appreciate consistency in handling and guidance, or rather they need consistency. Much like a dog or a child needs consistency in commands/rewards/punishment to learn properly.

In most other facets of life, women don't like consistency (subconsciously). Women are emotional and get a rise out of drama. Unpredictability is the catalyst for this. I suppose consistency =/= predictability but you get what I'm saying.

I have talked to a few girls that work as servers and one of the things they confessed about the job was that they liked the unpredictability about how much money they would make every night/week because their income was primarily gratuity-based. Keeping a girl emotionally on edge will most often lead to her becoming more drawn to you. Granted, there is a fine line to that.

This is why girl's are driven to aloofness. Because you are not consistently available, physically or emotionally. It's challenging and dramatic for them.

I would say consistency is important on the back-end of dealing with women.

[Comte De St. Germain]

(01-29-2016 11:21 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

This is such a rich topic.

The player angle here is to show that you will *consistently* NOT help her when she needs it.

You have one role in her life, fun and sex. She needs to go find a boyfriend if she wants a support system.

Commented last week on how useless chicks can be during a snowstorm. All she is there for is fucking.

The player needs to adopt that frame, and it smooths out a lot of the typical issues you run into when keeping a roster.

Every time you let your guard down in this regard, she comes to rely on you to her peril.

Better to be the cad who makes it up to her, than the chump she grows to resent.

WIA

(01-29-2016 10:42 AM)hwuzhere Wrote:  

I think another thing you should pick up with this thread and what a lot of members bring up through their arguments, but don't explicitly say is consistency.

Fact of the matter is you portrayed an image to the girl you were banging, and odds are that image was confident. So you have to stay consistent with that image and be confident about accepting or declining her requests.

If anything I've noticed women hate inconsistency and finding out that they were deceived by the goods they invested sex into by proxy.

If you're making a decision in relation to women stay confident and consistent in your choices. Showing weakness/apologizing shouldn't even be on the table.

Fair enough but I love playing the loan shark. The game is too varied to say there's a definitive answer to this. I collect every favor with interest it's only fair , but again that's just me.

[pitt]

I agree with BeyondBorders and Samsam.

Are you really going to charge a girl that you are fucking for helping her with moving something of hers?

A lot of you guys are missing the whole concept of alpha and beta and taking this a bit over the top.

A friend asks me for help, I would simply help them if I can and I wouldn't expect any money from this, I would probably be offended if he offers me money (unless I am really broke), the same applies for a girl I am fucking, specially if she has a cool personality as you say she has.

I wouldn't chase her too much after this, you probably fucked things up by now.

[BigTony]

On a positive note, you were banging a 21 year old girl in her prime. Now, it's time for you to move on and develop a bullpen of young women.

[Tigre]

I think it was a major mistake to make the apology in that way that you did.

Better to be vague about it. Tell her "that was a strange week when you asked. Any other week, I would have done that for you".

It's fine to do the favor. It doesn't diminish you.

My girl knows that I look after people in my inner circle. I will make time available for them. And if I'm sexing her, she's almost certainly in my inner circle.

The way you responded to her when she asked the favor suggested to her that she wasn't in your inner circle. She was nothing to you.

When asking someone for a favor, the last thing you want is them to make it highly transactional. Either do it or don't, but don't turn it into a big deal either way.

If you want to ask for something that involves recognition or investment from her, just tell her "OK, see if you can have a couple of beers cold in the fridge for me when I get done".

If you are concerned about her asking too many times for your assistance, deal with it when it happens too many times. The very first time, it's still fine.

There are a variety of ways you can accomplish the same task, too. Here in Colombia, you could send over a truck with two guys to do that job and still get change from 20 bucks. It can be a boss move if you do it the right way.

[Giovonny]

I would have helped her move the couch..

Then, I would be more demanding of her.

I would use the couch moving as a way for me to take more power in the relationship.

After moving the couch, I would insist that she please me sexually in ways that she never has before.

After moving the couch, I would insist that she do all the nasty things that I ask of her.

After moving the couch, I would be aggressively pushing for naked pics of her, sex shows from her, ball sucking, ass licking, deep throating, porno making, threesomes, cum swallowing, ass fucking, etc.

After moving the couch, I would become more dominant and demanding of her.

Moving the couch is a small investment. I would try to get a 100x return on my investment.

I don't mind doing little favors for girls that I am fucking. Doing little favors for them gives me the license to ask BIG favors from them.

The last time a girl asked me for a favor, she ended up licking my ass for about an hour.

[texas]

Haha Giovanny I just busted out laughing at that last line. What was the favor?

[heavy]

This reminds me of a situation that happened recently.

My current fwb milf was going to be really busy before leaving for the weekend and needed her dogs let out. I was maybe gonna be on that side of town (~10 min drive) and offered.

She TOTALLY wasn't interested in me letting her dogs out despite having been to her house many times and letting her dogs out a few times. Don't get me wrong, she would have appreciated it, and if I'd been right there, she probably would have accepted, but it was obvious...

She did not want me going out of my way in the least bit to do her a favor. I'm not going to explain what her reasons may have been, but given the context of this post, you can make your own guesses. Needless to say, like Belshazzar, I saw the writing on the wall and did NOT let her dogs out.

WIA's posts reminded me of this. Are you a boyFRIEND or are you fucking her.

[kaotic]

(01-29-2016 03:08 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

The last time a girl asked me for a favor, she ended up licking my ass for about an hour.

[MY DETROIT PLAYAS]

(01-29-2016 03:08 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

I would have helped her move the couch..

Then, I would be more demanding of her.

I would use the couch moving as a way for me to take more power in the relationship.

After moving the couch, I would insist that she please me sexually in ways that she never has before.

After moving the couch, I would insist that she do all the nasty things that I ask of her.

After moving the couch, I would be aggressively pushing for naked pics of her, sex shows from her, ball sucking, ass licking, deep throating, porno making, threesomes, cum swallowing, ass fucking, etc.

After moving the couch, I would become more dominant and demanding of her.

Moving the couch is a small investment. I would try to get a 100x return on my investment.

I don't mind doing little favors for girls that I am fucking. Doing little favors for them gives me the license to ask BIG favors from them.

The last time a girl asked me for a favor, she ended up licking my ass for about an hour.

[Comte De St. Germain]

(01-29-2016 03:08 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

I would have helped her move the couch..

Then, I would be more demanding of her.

I would use the couch moving as a way for me to take more power in the relationship.

After moving the couch, I would insist that she please me sexually in ways that she never has before.

After moving the couch, I would insist that she do all the nasty things that I ask of her.

After moving the couch, I would be aggressively pushing for naked pics of her, sex shows from her, ball sucking, ass licking, deep throating, porno making, threesomes, cum swallowing, ass fucking, etc.

After moving the couch, I would become more dominant and demanding of her.

Moving the couch is a small investment. I would try to get a 100x return on my investment.

I don't mind doing little favors for girls that I am fucking. Doing little favors for them gives me the license to ask BIG favors from them.

The last time a girl asked me for a favor, she ended up licking my ass for about an hour.

[Anabasis to Desta]

Favors are ok but make sure you don't do the same favor over and over again.

Any favor you do more than 3 times evolves into an expectation.

Goes for girls and guys.

[Giovonny]

(01-29-2016 03:21 PM)texas Wrote:  

Haha Giovonny I just busted out laughing at that last line. What was the favor?

She asked me to pick her up at the airport.

Anytime I do anything for a girl, I try to frame the interaction in such a way that the girl will feel INDEBTED to me.

I want her to feel like she owes me.

I take pussy as payment.

I usually get a large return on my investment.

Example:

The girl I picked up from the airport;

My investment: 45 minutes of my time, 5 dollars in gas.

My return: Sex, oral sex, ball sucking, ass licking, porno making, nude pics of her, sexting, cumming in her mouth, doing whatever the fuck I want, etc.!

Sometimes, its a good idea to do a favor for a girl. (if we frame it advantageously) This favor paid a nice return!

[rudebwoy]

I was going to do a reply, then read what GIO wrote and figured no need.

At least she didn't ask you to buy her a couch, dumping a couch is not a big deal.

It would have given me an opportunity to show my muscles and of course I would expect a back massage after.

[Dusty]

(01-29-2016 03:08 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

I would have helped her move the couch..

Then, I would be more demanding of her.

I would use the couch moving as a way for me to take more power in the relationship.

After moving the couch, I would insist that she please me sexually in ways that she never has before.

After moving the couch, I would insist that she do all the nasty things that I ask of her.

After moving the couch, I would be aggressively pushing for naked pics of her, sex shows from her, ball sucking, ass licking, deep throating, porno making, threesomes, cum swallowing, ass fucking, etc.

After moving the couch, I would become more dominant and demanding of her.

Moving the couch is a small investment. I would try to get a 100x return on my investment.

I don't mind doing little favors for girls that I am fucking. Doing little favors for them gives me the license to ask BIG favors from them.

The last time a girl asked me for a favor, she ended up licking my ass for about an hour.