[It_is_my_time]

(01-25-2016 12:17 PM)Moma Wrote:  

(01-25-2016 12:14 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

No, they are not the same thing.

Capitalism - the engine is the small business and growing middle class.

Corporatism - the engine is large globalist corporations and a shrinking middle class.

The argument can be made that Capitalism morphs into Corporatism, but IMO, that is due to just handing out the right to vote to every uninformed idiot.

Where did you get that definition of capitalism from?

I am sure you can find it most any where. It has been said and repeated for years. Capitalism is the desire for a strong middle class to innovate and create products/systems/ideas that advance our life and they are rewarded for it.

It has been said for years that "Small business is the engine of capitalism" and it is true. Microsoft started from nothing and ended up making billions, boosting the economy, and creating tons of wealth due to some creative new ideas.

Where are Corporatism wants to crush out small businesses due to fear of another Microsoft coming along and taking their market share.

[Moma]

(01-25-2016 12:20 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

I am sure you can find it most any where. It has been said and repeated for years. Capitalism is the desire for a strong middle class to innovate and create products/systems/ideas that advance our life and they are rewarded for it.

It has been said for years that "Small business is the engine of capitalism" and it is true. Microsoft started from nothing and ended up making billions, boosting the economy, and creating tons of wealth due to some creative new ideas.

Where are Corporatism wants to crush out small businesses due to fear of another Microsoft coming along and taking their market share.

My first hit in google was the definition that I just typed up for you. Corporatism and capitalism live in the same family and are birthed from the same father. Their objective is to reward individual growth..it moves away from socialism which looks out for the community. Whether it's being done by a major corporation or a small business as you put it, the objective is profit driven rather than community driven.

Would a guy with a market stall who can hire some Mexicans for cheap to sweep up the potato peels forgo the profit he can make on that to hire fellow Westerners at a premium price just to keep things 'communal'? No because that wouldn't be a capitalist mentality.

[It_is_my_time]

(01-25-2016 12:26 PM)Moma Wrote:  

(01-25-2016 12:20 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

I am sure you can find it most any where. It has been said and repeated for years. Capitalism is the desire for a strong middle class to innovate and create products/systems/ideas that advance our life and they are rewarded for it.

It has been said for years that "Small business is the engine of capitalism" and it is true. Microsoft started from nothing and ended up making billions, boosting the economy, and creating tons of wealth due to some creative new ideas.

Where are Corporatism wants to crush out small businesses due to fear of another Microsoft coming along and taking their market share.

My first hit in google was the definition that I just typed up for you. Corporatism and capitalism live in the same family and are birthed from the same father. Their objective is to reward individual growth..it moves away from socialism which looks out for the community. Whether it's being done by a major corporation or a small business as you put it, the objective is profit driven rather than community driven.

Would a guy with a market stall who can hire some Mexicans for cheap to sweep up the potato peels forgo the profit he can make on that to hire fellow Westerners at a premium price just to keep things 'communal'? No because that wouldn't be a capitalist mentality.

No, but the govt. shouldn't allow people to sneak into our country, and they should control immigration based on need.

In both Capitalism and Socialism, the big guys will win. The difference is, in Capitalism anyone with the desire and drive can become a big guy. In socialism, you pretty much have to be born into it, one way or another. Which in the end is why socialism always fails and always will fail. The best and brightest are not rewarded, instead the well connected and laziest are rewarded. It just a simple fact of life.

[rudebwoy]

Capitalism is simply BIG fish (Corporations) eating Little fish (small business), Walmart and big box stores are the killer of small business enterprises.

When was the last time you went into a small family run business. I type this as I sit in a Starbucks, I will head to Walmart after to pick up some supplies and then I have to go to the Mercedes dealer to pick up a part. In my suburb, LOWES has opened up a big box store down the street from Home Depot. I prefer to go to the little hardware store close to my house, I wonder how much longer they can hang on for.

I disagree with the Microsoft example, on the surface they like to paint them as a small enterprise that became big. It is alot more complex than that, I don't have the desire to get into it now.

It has nothing to do with middle class, everything in life is done to squeeze the middle class. The Rich generally pay less tax than the middle class through tax schemes and breaks. The poor usually get tax breaks and money for having children. The middle class finance this on both ends.

[It_is_my_time]

(01-25-2016 12:37 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Capitalism is simply BIG fish (Corporations) eating Little fish (small business), Walmart and big box stores are the killer of small business enterprises.

When was the last time you went into a small family run business. I type this as I sit in a Starbucks, I will head to Walmart after to pick up some supplies and then I have to go to the Mercedes dealer to pick up a part. In my suburn, LOWES has opened up a big box store down the street from Home Depot. I prefer to go to the little hardware store close to my house, I wonder how much longer they can hang on for.

I disagree with the Microsoft example, on the surface they like to paint them as a small enterprise that became big. It is alot more comple than that, I don't have the desire to get into it now.

It has nothing to do with middle class, everything in life is done to squeeze the middle class. The Rich generally pay less tax than the middle class through tax schemes and breaks. The poor usually get tax breaks and money for having children. The middle class finance this on both ends.

No, once again that is corporatism, you are confusing the two.

[rudebwoy]

(01-25-2016 12:34 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

(01-25-2016 12:26 PM)Moma Wrote:  

(01-25-2016 12:20 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

I am sure you can find it most any where. It has been said and repeated for years. Capitalism is the desire for a strong middle class to innovate and create products/systems/ideas that advance our life and they are rewarded for it.

It has been said for years that "Small business is the engine of capitalism" and it is true. Microsoft started from nothing and ended up making billions, boosting the economy, and creating tons of wealth due to some creative new ideas.

Where are Corporatism wants to crush out small businesses due to fear of another Microsoft coming along and taking their market share.

My first hit in google was the definition that I just typed up for you. Corporatism and capitalism live in the same family and are birthed from the same father. Their objective is to reward individual growth..it moves away from socialism which looks out for the community. Whether it's being done by a major corporation or a small business as you put it, the objective is profit driven rather than community driven.

Would a guy with a market stall who can hire some Mexicans for cheap to sweep up the potato peels forgo the profit he can make on that to hire fellow Westerners at a premium price just to keep things 'communal'? No because that wouldn't be a capitalist mentality.

No, but the govt. shouldn't allow people to sneak into our country, and they should control immigration based on need.

In both Capitalism and Socialism, the big guys will win. The difference is, in Capitalism anyone with the desire and drive can become a big guy. In socialism, you pretty much have to be born into it, one way or another. Which in the end is why socialism always fails and always will fail. The best and brightest are not rewarded, instead the well connected and laziest are rewarded. It just a simple fact of life.

Read about the history of the oil companies, guys like Rockfeller and Standard Oil.

Read about how these same oil companies that went to Iran and Saudi Arabia to set up oil companies. True definition of Capitalism.

BIG guys always win, all the "isms" are fancy words to intellectually masturbate too.

The immigration debate is the oldest political tool in the book, the dirty secret is that every country needs cheap labour to profit.

When I lived in London, I met plenty of uneducated guys who thought they deserved a office job making decent money simply because of entitlement.

[Moma]

It's_my_time, you will have to provide a link or a book where you got this capitalism quote. You are slowly slipping away from the issue at hand by debating terms that mean the same thing. My point is, the governments ALLOW these refugees to come into the country. There is no 'slipping in' per se. You may have a few leaks per se..but it's one of those 'turn a blind eye' since these guys are going to be sopping up the cheap slave labour in the country. On paper, they tell you that they don't know how Jose got in past the border but that's just rhetoric to have you complaining at the man inside of the club instead of the club owner who took a handoff to let these extras inside.

[262]

@rudebwoy - Yes, that's capitalism, as cold as it sounds. Let me ask you this then:

When you want to buy something, like a laptop, don't you look for the best value - lots of what you want for less money? Or do you willingly pay more for the exact same laptop, with the workers even being treated the same in either case?

If you want to pay more for a laptop so that the workers are paid more, that's fine - that's something you value, and more importantly, that you're backing up with hard currency.

As I alluded to in my edited post, capitalism (reality) doesn't care about things like illegal immigration, refusing to pay benefits, outsourcing, etc. It only cares when they produce value to others, like you and me. Sometimes ideas get undervalued, but that's where the profit is.

Look, it would be great if we lived in a utopia. But just like we've never have and never will live in a utopia where girls mate with nice guys purely out of charity (as opposed to societal pressure, which I would argue is necessary), we never have, and never will, live without capitalism.

[It_is_my_time]

(01-25-2016 12:46 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

(01-25-2016 12:34 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

(01-25-2016 12:26 PM)Moma Wrote:  

(01-25-2016 12:20 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

I am sure you can find it most any where. It has been said and repeated for years. Capitalism is the desire for a strong middle class to innovate and create products/systems/ideas that advance our life and they are rewarded for it.

It has been said for years that "Small business is the engine of capitalism" and it is true. Microsoft started from nothing and ended up making billions, boosting the economy, and creating tons of wealth due to some creative new ideas.

Where are Corporatism wants to crush out small businesses due to fear of another Microsoft coming along and taking their market share.

My first hit in google was the definition that I just typed up for you. Corporatism and capitalism live in the same family and are birthed from the same father. Their objective is to reward individual growth..it moves away from socialism which looks out for the community. Whether it's being done by a major corporation or a small business as you put it, the objective is profit driven rather than community driven.

Would a guy with a market stall who can hire some Mexicans for cheap to sweep up the potato peels forgo the profit he can make on that to hire fellow Westerners at a premium price just to keep things 'communal'? No because that wouldn't be a capitalist mentality.

No, but the govt. shouldn't allow people to sneak into our country, and they should control immigration based on need.

In both Capitalism and Socialism, the big guys will win. The difference is, in Capitalism anyone with the desire and drive can become a big guy. In socialism, you pretty much have to be born into it, one way or another. Which in the end is why socialism always fails and always will fail. The best and brightest are not rewarded, instead the well connected and laziest are rewarded. It just a simple fact of life.

Read about the history of the oil companies, guys like Rockfeller and Standard Oil.

Read about how these same oil companies went to Iran and Saudi Arabia to set up oil companies. True definition of Capitalism.

BIG guys always win, all the "isms" are fancy words to intellectually masturbate too.

The immigration debate is the oldest political tool in the book, the dirty secret is that every country needs cheap labour to profit.

When I lived in London, I met plenty of uneducated guys who thought they deserved a office job making decent money simply because of entitlement.

Yes, the Big guys win all the "isms", I agree.

The difference is, I want a chance to do more with my life than be stuck in some meager middle class existence, and capitalism offers me that and I have taken advantage of the opportunities and I want others to do the same.

[It_is_my_time]

(01-25-2016 12:46 PM)Moma Wrote:  

It's_my_time, you will have to provide a link or a book where you got this capitalism quote. You are slowly slipping away from the issue at hand by debating terms that mean the same thing. My point is, the governments ALLOW these refugees to come into the country. There is no 'slipping in' per se. You may have a few leaks per se..but it's one of those 'turn a blind eye' since these guys are going to be sopping up the cheap slave labour in the country. On paper, they tell you that they don't know how Jose got in past the border but that's just rhetoric to have you complaining at the man inside of the club instead of the club owner who took a handoff to let these extras inside.

Of course they let them in, or let them sneak in, they are paid to do so by the corporate elites.

But you are right, it is getting off track.

[rudebwoy]

(01-25-2016 12:49 PM)262 Wrote:  

@rudebwoy - Yes, that's capitalism, as cold as it sounds. Let me ask you this then:

When you want to buy something, like a laptop, don't you look for the best value - lots of what you want for less money? Or do you willingly pay more for the exact same laptop, with the workers even being treated the same in either case?

If you want to pay more for a laptop so that the workers are paid more, that's fine - that's something you value, and more importantly, that you're backing up with hard currency.

As I alluded to in my edited post, capitalism (reality) doesn't care about things like illegal immigration, refusing to pay benefits, outsourcing, etc. It only cares when they produce value to others, like you and me. Sometimes ideas get undervalued, but that's where the profit is.

Look, it would be great if we lived in a utopia. But just like we've never have and never will live in a utopia where girls mate with nice guys purely out of charity (as opposed to societal pressure, which I would argue is necessary), we never have, and never will, live without capitalism.

It may not care directly, but they care indirectly. They only care about the bottom line and making shareholders happy.
Four years ago I worked for a American I.T distributor in Toronto, they closed our department and sent the jobs to Costa Rica. The wages of the TICAS was leaked and it was one third of what we earned, which wasn't great to begin with.

[Moma]

(01-25-2016 12:49 PM)262 Wrote:  

@rudebwoy - Yes, that's capitalism, as cold as it sounds. Let me ask you this then:

When you want to buy something, like a laptop, don't you look for the best value - lots of what you want for less money? Or do you willingly pay more for the exact same laptop, with the workers even being treated the same in either case?

If you want to pay more for a laptop so that the workers are paid more, that's fine - that's something you value, and more importantly, that you're backing up with hard currency.

As I alluded to in my edited post, capitalism (reality) doesn't care about things like illegal immigration, refusing to pay benefits, outsourcing, etc. It only cares when they produce value to others, like you and me. Sometimes ideas get undervalued, but that's where the profit is.

Look, it would be great if we lived in a utopia. But just like we've never have and never will live in a utopia where girls mate with nice guys purely out of charity (as opposed to societal pressure, which I would argue is necessary), we never have, and never will, live without capitalism.

262 but rudebwoy is not the one complaining about immigrants flooding Europe and America hahaahaha! He has acknowledged that it is capitalism that is letting these cats in and the glorious Donald Trump is the capitalism king. So he says, get the Mexicans out on the podium but he will not deport Carlos because where else can he enjoy to buy those horrible toupees costing tuppence hahahahaha!

[rudebwoy]

LOL@Toupee

I wonder if that is made in America!

[Moma]

(01-25-2016 01:00 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

LOL@Toupee

I wonder if that is made in America!

HAHAHAAHA, you are too much, I can't read your stuff no more LOOOOOOLLL!! #DeadWidLaff @Made in America

[It_is_my_time]

(01-25-2016 12:57 PM)Moma Wrote:  

(01-25-2016 12:49 PM)262 Wrote:  

@rudebwoy - Yes, that's capitalism, as cold as it sounds. Let me ask you this then:

When you want to buy something, like a laptop, don't you look for the best value - lots of what you want for less money? Or do you willingly pay more for the exact same laptop, with the workers even being treated the same in either case?

If you want to pay more for a laptop so that the workers are paid more, that's fine - that's something you value, and more importantly, that you're backing up with hard currency.

As I alluded to in my edited post, capitalism (reality) doesn't care about things like illegal immigration, refusing to pay benefits, outsourcing, etc. It only cares when they produce value to others, like you and me. Sometimes ideas get undervalued, but that's where the profit is.

Look, it would be great if we lived in a utopia. But just like we've never have and never will live in a utopia where girls mate with nice guys purely out of charity (as opposed to societal pressure, which I would argue is necessary), we never have, and never will, live without capitalism.

262 but rudebwoy is not the one complaining about immigrants flooding Europe and America hahaahaha! He has acknowledged that it is capitalism that is letting these cats in and the glorious Donald Trump is the capitalism king. So he says, get the Mexicans out on the podium but he will not deport Carlos because where else can he enjoy to buy those horrible toupees costing tuppence hahahahaha!

Trump is the last shot we have to get this thing back on track. If you don't take his words to be honest, that is your choice. But at least he is speaking up about the issue. Everyone else is either ignoring this serious problem, or even embracing it like it is a good thing.

[Moma]

It's_my_time, my advice to you as a brother would be to get your Spanish on fleek. I trust Trump as much as I trust his toupee to stay in one place in a hurricane.

[It_is_my_time]

(01-25-2016 01:09 PM)Moma Wrote:  

It's_my_time, my advice to you as a brother would be to get your Spanish on fleek. I trust Trump as much as I trust his toupee to stay in one place in a hurricane.

I will not have to do so, I am on the other side financially/safety than most guys. I just want to help other young men find success.

I trust Trump far more than anyone else, because he at least addresses the issues, rather than either ignore them or embrace them.

[rudebwoy]

^Trump is talking about forcing Apple to make their products in America.

How feasible is that, considering their products are being made in slave factories in China thar are surronded with suicide nets!

He is a politician, sorry I don't take him seriously.

C'mon Moma - fuck mate you are trolling with those Toupee jokes. LMAO....

[It_is_my_time]

(01-25-2016 01:11 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

^Trump is talking about making Apple make their products in America.

How feasible is that, considering the products are being made in slave factories in China thar are surronded with suicide nets!

He is a politician, sorry I don't take him seriously.

It would be feasible through tariffs. Not saying it is the best idea, but the are ways to force it to happen.

He isn't a politician, that is what makes him refreshing. He is a real estate mogul who is out there torching the liberal anti-male main stream media.

[rudebwoy]

I will let you have the last word bro!

You are young, so you will learn. The more things change is the more they stay the same.

Be prepared, no one knows what is coming around the corner.

Time for me to work, see if I can make money on WTCO.

[OGNorCal707]

Talking bad about Donald Trump, how dare you!? Hopefully your warning level won't go up...

[N°6]

(01-25-2016 12:14 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

(01-25-2016 12:12 PM)Moma Wrote:  

It's_my_time, no offense, my brother but you are using convoluted terms to try and throw smoke up into what is going on. Capitalism, corporatism..same ting. Corporations capitalising on maximal gains for profit. Are you saying that capitalism promises kumbaya? Give me an example of capitalism.

No, they are not the same thing.

Capitalism - the engine is the small business and growing middle class.

Corporatism - the engine is large globalist corporations and a shrinking middle class.

The argument can be made that Capitalism morphs into Corporatism, but IMO, that is due to just handing out the right to vote to every uninformed idiot.

This is not corporatism. Corporatism can be loosely defined as the guild system applied to the modern, industrial state.

Its capitalism would have accorded to the Roman Church's ethics against usury, price-gouging and profit maximisation and undercutting labour.

The Corporate State as advocated by the British and Italian Fascists was not handing governance of a nation to big business as SJWs and Gerald Celente seem to think. It was to be the formation of a state of trade, professional, financial corporations. A voter would vote for his trade, professional, corporate representative as opposed to voting for someone representing a geographical area who is most likely a lawyer or a banker feeding well from the trough of democracy. It is clear to see that off-shoring and importing cheap labour could never have happened in a corporate state. The financial corporations would have been blocked by the manufacturing and labour corporations.

The guild system began to decline because of the French Revolution but a mere 100 years later Pope Léo XIII commissioned a study of corporatism to attempt to mitigate the chaos capitalist Anglo system and Marxism's destruction of societies. His theologians found:

"that corporatism was a "system of social organization that has at its base the grouping of men according to the community of their natural interests and social functions, and as true and proper organs of the state they direct and coordinate labor and capital in matters of common interest".

This is why Marxists hate Corporatism because it is a Christian socialism that rejects class warfare in favour of class reconciliation and which can trace its history to the ancient world.

With this in mind, look how different the Doctrine of Fascism looks (which incorporated Pope Léo XIII's findings and which attracted many disillusioned Marxists):

Quote:

When brought within the orbit of the State, Fascism recognizes the real needs which gave rise to socialism and trade unionism, giving them due weight in the guild or corporative system in which divergent interests are coordinated and harmonized in the unity of the State.

and

[The state] is not simply a mechanism which limits the sphere of the supposed liberties of the individual... Neither has the Fascist conception of authority anything in common with that of a police ridden State... Far from crushing the individual, the Fascist State multiplies his energies, just as in a regiment a soldier is not diminished but multiplied by the number of his fellow soldiers.

[Jaydublin]

(01-25-2016 06:45 AM)Sebastian Wrote:  

It's funny when I say to a white person 'I don't like a town with lots of immigrants', he Pretends to get offended. I am pretty he hates it more than I do.

No, they probably really are offended. They have been brought up through the education system to feel that way. The truth is, in my experience, white people bitch about white privileges and white racists more than any other race of people or all other races combined

[nomadbrah]

Sometimes I wonder, do these immigrants, do they really prefer their Haiti or Pakistani shithole?

Is it perhaps such that they do really not have the desire to lift themselves above tribal neolithic life? Perhaps they simply don't desire civilization?

How else can we explain that they continue to live like savages in London, one of the greatest and most modern cities of history. Would they rather live in squalor than admit the inferiority of their culture.

[WarMachine]

(01-25-2016 08:27 AM)frenchcorporation Wrote:  

(01-24-2016 11:57 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

I was born and spent alot of time in London. I saw the migrant map a few weeks ago and was a bit surprised by it, I think it is a bit overblown.

Can we get feedback from people that actually live there, not keyboard jockeys that keep turning every thread into a "beware of the muslims" warning.

Comparing London to a shithole like Detroit is idiotic.

I may be a little partial, London is one of the best cities in the world.

I'm from london,born and raised etc.

I cant relate to this doom-and-gloom (wrt migrants), its more expensive and gentrified than ever. parts of inner london that were predominantely populated with ethnic minorites have been replaced, with mostly middle-class native english people.

Places like Hackney, brixton, clapham, stratford. proper shitholes becoming a lot nicer.

My commute to work , more than 9 out of ten people are white. Maybe thats not everyones experience in London but it is mine.

London does have its problems, but this migrant stuff is overblown. Poor people/low wage-earners are being pushed out of london, to places like manchester and wales. There's less and less council housing, as they are being torn down and replaced with v.expensive apartments

If anyone is going to post doom-and-gloom articles about ldn, they should state if they are actually from london, as opposed to being on the outside looking in, copying and pasting alarmist articles.


edit: There is a shitload of money to be made in London, where the fuck is this "decline" stuff coming from ??. I was flat broke 3 years ago, and now I'm partying abroad every weekend, on my own dime. I cant take people seriously who come with this defeatist attitude anymore. London isnt the problem, the people complaining in this thread are. Guys are telling on themselves.

Let me echo this 100. I live in London, born and raised. There is no decline. For me this is sensationalist anti-islamic/anti-immigrant KoolAid of the sweetest and most addictive flavour.

Some don't even know they're drinking it.

The open secret is that the man with his small building business is hiring these immigrants for less than minimum wage, some of them sleep 8 to a room, paying no tax. Landlords welcome the guaranteed rentals, and they don't even have to renovate to accommodate these people.

Why would they come here if they didn't know they could work, or sometimes "recruited" as cheap labour?

The English businessman / businesses do very, very well out of immigration.