The more I think about the irony of an American orphan being adopted by a Chinese couple, the more I'm entertained by it. I'm going to work on this one some and add my own flavor to it. I'll tell them my Chinese parents are rich movie stars in Asia and my name is like Apple or Rainbow. Girls will completely fall for this shit. The biggest test will be keeping myself from breaking the role and just giggling the entire time.
A Tale of a "Good Date"
Bee there like Hank - it suck, also shows how men are the true romantics trying to build a real connection while the girl just wants to know if she's going to like his pickle or not.
Two things about online dating you always gotta keep in mind:
-Guys here probably take their OKC/online dating activity seriously. Girls have a million ways to meet guys, so they don't have to; there's an asymmetry in the system. If you've been hitting the online sites hard, you're already more invested in the overall experience than she is, that's not a good mental position to start in.
-As noted above, if you only exist in messages/texts, you're not really a guy to these gals, just a flat electronic persona. I've come to believe that the shock of meeting the real person and how they don't match what you expected from online is a big cause of post-date flaking and whatnot like what happened here. So the "less is more" approach is important for protecting your image and not giving her too much chance to form an unrealistic image of you that you will not live up to.
Online services are the ultimate abundance mentality for women. A yellow flag of mine is a gal who's been on a particular site/service for more than about 6 months. Best is if you can grab them right when they get on there, before they get jaded and disappointed and see you as the next in a long line of just-not-perfect men. They really do seem to get addicted to "recreational dating." So much for the idea that girls are programmed to want relationships and settling down.
Also I've been on and off OkCupid for about 4 years now, and when I get back on I'm always shocked to find the huge number of girls who are still on there, with the same username, photos and profile from years before. Either they are riding the carousel and don't need any boost, or they are not getting any results but lack the skill/game to sell themselves better.
Quote: (12-29-2015 09:03 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:
None of this is gonna fly very well with OKC girls. Less is definitely more, and never go to a place like a restaurant where physical escalation isn't possible. Over the summer I would take them to a coffee shop by a park. During the winter it's always a bar.
In my experience that's really the only way to make any progress with online girls. They're looking for this "connection", but they want to know it's with a guy who puts them last of his list of priorities (at least initially.)
Two things about online dating you always gotta keep in mind:
-Guys here probably take their OKC/online dating activity seriously. Girls have a million ways to meet guys, so they don't have to; there's an asymmetry in the system. If you've been hitting the online sites hard, you're already more invested in the overall experience than she is, that's not a good mental position to start in.
-As noted above, if you only exist in messages/texts, you're not really a guy to these gals, just a flat electronic persona. I've come to believe that the shock of meeting the real person and how they don't match what you expected from online is a big cause of post-date flaking and whatnot like what happened here. So the "less is more" approach is important for protecting your image and not giving her too much chance to form an unrealistic image of you that you will not live up to.
Quote:Quote:
There's a good chance she's still on OKC two years later, looking for her soulmate...once girls get in, they can't wean themselves off the drug. I wonder if these girls ever think about all the guys they went on dates with and then ghosted on, if they ever think about the way they built their hopes up only to knock them down. I'd guess maybe they felt bad once or twice initially, but the routine and process of it jaded them over time, and they don't anymore.
Online services are the ultimate abundance mentality for women. A yellow flag of mine is a gal who's been on a particular site/service for more than about 6 months. Best is if you can grab them right when they get on there, before they get jaded and disappointed and see you as the next in a long line of just-not-perfect men. They really do seem to get addicted to "recreational dating." So much for the idea that girls are programmed to want relationships and settling down.
Also I've been on and off OkCupid for about 4 years now, and when I get back on I'm always shocked to find the huge number of girls who are still on there, with the same username, photos and profile from years before. Either they are riding the carousel and don't need any boost, or they are not getting any results but lack the skill/game to sell themselves better.
Quote: (12-30-2015 04:20 PM)eradicator Wrote:
I love this, the whole orphan thing tugs at their heart strings, adds mystique, and probably gets them wet just thinking about it. And yes, the denying their requests about more personal information is a good strategy instead of trying to come up with more BS, they will guess that you are full of shit.
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea. If you are just looking for sex, this is great, if you are looking for more of a relationship, probably don't want to lie so much.
Quote: (12-30-2015 04:35 PM)BrewDog Wrote:The "I am an orphan"/adopted story is some of the best chick crack I ever tested. Must be some motherhood receptors that you press, and they emotionally go into overdrive. When I was telling that girl that I still regularly visit my elderly Chinese stepmother in Shanghai, especially now that my Chinese stepdad passed, and that she makes some of the best Chinese food, she almost started crying.
The more I think about the irony of an American orphan being adopted by a Chinese couple, the more I'm entertained by it. I'm going to work on this one some and add my own flavor to it. I'll tell them my Chinese parents are rich movie stars in Asia and my name is like Apple or Rainbow. Girls will completely fall for this shit. The biggest test will be keeping myself from breaking the role and just giggling the entire time.
I am planning to up it a notch next time around and mention that my biological mother was a drug-addicted prostitute. haha that will be the test for myself, if I will be able not to hit the floor laughing my ass off.
Brewdog, much looking fwd to your field report
“A deception that elevates us is dearer than a host of low truths.”
My own experiences reflect everything you guys are saying. It drove me crazy having 'fantastic' dates only to have the girl disappear. It really makes you doubt yourself.
Honestly I've only really experienced this with hardcore carousel riders from online dating, which is to say girls with too many options. My theory is that its enemy action. While she was dating you on Monday, she met Chad Thundercock on Tuesday and quickly forgot about you because girls don't usually like to be fucking more than one guy at once. This is why you need to get the lay before some other guy gets in there.
This factor in itself is the reason I largely abandoned online dating for social circle/meetup.com
Honestly I've only really experienced this with hardcore carousel riders from online dating, which is to say girls with too many options. My theory is that its enemy action. While she was dating you on Monday, she met Chad Thundercock on Tuesday and quickly forgot about you because girls don't usually like to be fucking more than one guy at once. This is why you need to get the lay before some other guy gets in there.
This factor in itself is the reason I largely abandoned online dating for social circle/meetup.com
This is a good post to remind us even when we think a date went well, it's something a girl isn't looking for (I see this happening with younger broads).
As men, we try to analyze it from a logical point which ends up questioning our values.
As men, we try to analyze it from a logical point which ends up questioning our values.
Had a Tinder encounter yesterday with a chick who I was banging within 6 hours of the initial message. Went straight to her house and had her in bed within an hour of walking through the door. What she said to me after the bang was very interesting. She said that the initial pre-sex chat downstairs where we were trying to "figure each other out" was fraught with "awkwardness" but - and here's the crucial part - now things are "much more relaxed and happy".
Hearing a woman say this was a revelation because it's been something I've long suspected. Now, I certainly didn't feel any "awkwardness" before the bang as I was very relaxed, but a lot of these women project their own feelings of discomfort or insecurity onto you, which is why if you're not going for the Zero Date Bang model you're essentially wasting your time with online meets. Ghosting and post-date flaking is a huge problem, as everyone on this forum can attest to, and it is essentially down to socially retarded girls feeling "weirded out" (or, conversely, too comfortable!) on the first date and then making a snap judgement before disappearing into the night like Batman.
Half-jokingly I suggested it would be great to always get sex out of the way as quickly as possible, so that both people can chill the fuck out, and she basically agreed. It was confirmation, straight from the horse's mouth, to always be going for the Zero or First Date Bang Model.
Hearing a woman say this was a revelation because it's been something I've long suspected. Now, I certainly didn't feel any "awkwardness" before the bang as I was very relaxed, but a lot of these women project their own feelings of discomfort or insecurity onto you, which is why if you're not going for the Zero Date Bang model you're essentially wasting your time with online meets. Ghosting and post-date flaking is a huge problem, as everyone on this forum can attest to, and it is essentially down to socially retarded girls feeling "weirded out" (or, conversely, too comfortable!) on the first date and then making a snap judgement before disappearing into the night like Batman.
Half-jokingly I suggested it would be great to always get sex out of the way as quickly as possible, so that both people can chill the fuck out, and she basically agreed. It was confirmation, straight from the horse's mouth, to always be going for the Zero or First Date Bang Model.
This thread is so on the money. Sometimes the process of dating can seem so counter-intuitive. What should work logically just seems to backfire, like building a connection through a great date, conversation, etc.
One recent example from last year is I met this pretty cute girl on Tinder and we quickly transitioned to whatsapp. Sometimes I forget to turn off the witty banter so we ended up texting a lot back and forth, great conversation and we even had a great first date. Of course, she essentially friendzoned me when I tried to set up the second date.
Here is where I learned my lesson: I remember escalating the flirting a bit on whatsapp and she instantly replied, "if I only wanted to bang you, I wouldn't have talked to you this much". I essentially talked myself out of what was possibly a guarantee lay. Acting like a decent and normal human being just doesn't work with women.
The above experiences can easily be attributed to the advice given on this forum about texting, first date procedures, etc.
One recent example from last year is I met this pretty cute girl on Tinder and we quickly transitioned to whatsapp. Sometimes I forget to turn off the witty banter so we ended up texting a lot back and forth, great conversation and we even had a great first date. Of course, she essentially friendzoned me when I tried to set up the second date.
Here is where I learned my lesson: I remember escalating the flirting a bit on whatsapp and she instantly replied, "if I only wanted to bang you, I wouldn't have talked to you this much". I essentially talked myself out of what was possibly a guarantee lay. Acting like a decent and normal human being just doesn't work with women.
The above experiences can easily be attributed to the advice given on this forum about texting, first date procedures, etc.
I thank Hank for posting this and he stated some of issues that might have caused this to flop.
I notice any time I have gone into a date thinking like that, I always get disappointed in the end. One thing I will say that women can smell that sort of eagerness on a man. As you get older you learn how to scale back the excitement, it almost seems like a fine line between being interested and dis-interested.
I wonder what she was hoping to get out of the date, was she on a rebound or what was her motive. Did she get intimidated by the fact he was a lawyer or was he not bad boy enough for her?
Again, I don't want to come across as a armchair quarterback. Just food for thought!
I notice any time I have gone into a date thinking like that, I always get disappointed in the end. One thing I will say that women can smell that sort of eagerness on a man. As you get older you learn how to scale back the excitement, it almost seems like a fine line between being interested and dis-interested.
I wonder what she was hoping to get out of the date, was she on a rebound or what was her motive. Did she get intimidated by the fact he was a lawyer or was he not bad boy enough for her?
Again, I don't want to come across as a armchair quarterback. Just food for thought!
I do feel for guys like Hank because I am in that space. I've had numerous disappointments like that. Sadly, I've had to change my style because as some posters put, lizards have numerous options..especially the ones from the online marketplace. They get tons and tons of messages a day so they can compartmentalise men into 'Cool noob', 'Sexy Idiot', 'Emotional Tampon', 'Bestie'. It's like having a fully stocked larder. The only way around this, is the number game. It's ugly when you are trying to look for a soulmate but it's how the cookie crumbles in this particular point in time.
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An Ode To Lizards
The only "good date" is one where you had a good time regardless of the outcome.
Forget looking forward to the second date. Forget rating a date based on whether or not you got laid. Forget analyzing how alpha/beta you were. Don't worry about your potential future with the girl.
I'll tell you the tail of an actual good date:
A little over a month ago I took a trip out of town for business. Center of the country; bible-belt. In a third tier city with not much going on, I hopped on OKC and started hitting up girls to hang with. One night I got this girl to meet me at the pub next door to my hotel.
I walk over there a few minutes after she tells me she's arrived. I find her at the bar chatting with some older guy sitting one seat over. She saved a seat for me between them with her jacket. I sit down and just start chatting with the guy (at first I thought she showed up with him because of how friendly they seemed so I started work on disarming). Turned out they didn't know eachother at all; the guy was just friendly and talkative. The girl and I start chatting and vibing. She's cute (6.5). Great chemistry.
We're laughing and getting onto deep emotional/existential topics. Kinda hippie/spiritual type. The bartender is hanging with us a bit, hooks us up with some free samples of new beers. We order a flight of darks and start getting buzzed. Having a great time. We start talking about music and I tell her about a couple bands I'm into that she might dig based on what she's about. I tell her I have music on my phone but the bar is no place to listen; let go hang in my hotel and listen to tunes. She shows some token resistance and I tell her "c'mon don't make it weird. Lets go listen to some music."
She agrees and we walk across the street. Her arms wrapped around mine. Giggling and talking. We get in my room and I already have the lights set to a good mood. I put on some tunes on my phone and we sit on the couch and get cozy. I escalate and go in for the kiss. We're talking some more and just touching eachother in between making out. I pick her up and pin her against the wall. Just having fun getting physical with her. We fool around a little more and she tells me she should go. I tell her she had better leave before she gets in trouble. She laughs and I walk her to her car. She texted me the next day thanking me saying she had a great time and "really needed that."
That's it. I had a good time. I went into it with zero expectations, and I came out of it with zero expectations. I didn't plan on seeing her again and didn't mind.
She ended up texting me a month later and we've been chatting a bit since. I convinced her to fly out here for a few days in a couple weeks. She emailed me her invoice for proof she bought the tickets.![[Image: cool.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/cool.gif)
Moral of the story is be more outcome independent.
I will add that I had another late-night date lined up after my date with this girl and I was at least 60% sure I was getting laid out of it. Dancer getting out of work and coming straight to my hotel bar to drink and hang. She shows up and texts me that the bar is closed so I tell her hang on I'll be down. She's good looking (7/7.5) but her demeanor was way different than the other girl. She wasn't down with there being no bars open in the area and was uncomfortable/awkward with the idea of not going somewhere to drink and refused to grab beers at the store and hang in my hotel so she decided to leave 5 minutes after she got there. Whatever don't care. Outcome independent. Her loss. I had a late dinner, rubbed one out, and watched a documentary on Scientology.
Forget looking forward to the second date. Forget rating a date based on whether or not you got laid. Forget analyzing how alpha/beta you were. Don't worry about your potential future with the girl.
I'll tell you the tail of an actual good date:
A little over a month ago I took a trip out of town for business. Center of the country; bible-belt. In a third tier city with not much going on, I hopped on OKC and started hitting up girls to hang with. One night I got this girl to meet me at the pub next door to my hotel.
I walk over there a few minutes after she tells me she's arrived. I find her at the bar chatting with some older guy sitting one seat over. She saved a seat for me between them with her jacket. I sit down and just start chatting with the guy (at first I thought she showed up with him because of how friendly they seemed so I started work on disarming). Turned out they didn't know eachother at all; the guy was just friendly and talkative. The girl and I start chatting and vibing. She's cute (6.5). Great chemistry.
We're laughing and getting onto deep emotional/existential topics. Kinda hippie/spiritual type. The bartender is hanging with us a bit, hooks us up with some free samples of new beers. We order a flight of darks and start getting buzzed. Having a great time. We start talking about music and I tell her about a couple bands I'm into that she might dig based on what she's about. I tell her I have music on my phone but the bar is no place to listen; let go hang in my hotel and listen to tunes. She shows some token resistance and I tell her "c'mon don't make it weird. Lets go listen to some music."
She agrees and we walk across the street. Her arms wrapped around mine. Giggling and talking. We get in my room and I already have the lights set to a good mood. I put on some tunes on my phone and we sit on the couch and get cozy. I escalate and go in for the kiss. We're talking some more and just touching eachother in between making out. I pick her up and pin her against the wall. Just having fun getting physical with her. We fool around a little more and she tells me she should go. I tell her she had better leave before she gets in trouble. She laughs and I walk her to her car. She texted me the next day thanking me saying she had a great time and "really needed that."
That's it. I had a good time. I went into it with zero expectations, and I came out of it with zero expectations. I didn't plan on seeing her again and didn't mind.
She ended up texting me a month later and we've been chatting a bit since. I convinced her to fly out here for a few days in a couple weeks. She emailed me her invoice for proof she bought the tickets.
Moral of the story is be more outcome independent.
I will add that I had another late-night date lined up after my date with this girl and I was at least 60% sure I was getting laid out of it. Dancer getting out of work and coming straight to my hotel bar to drink and hang. She shows up and texts me that the bar is closed so I tell her hang on I'll be down. She's good looking (7/7.5) but her demeanor was way different than the other girl. She wasn't down with there being no bars open in the area and was uncomfortable/awkward with the idea of not going somewhere to drink and refused to grab beers at the store and hang in my hotel so she decided to leave 5 minutes after she got there. Whatever don't care. Outcome independent. Her loss. I had a late dinner, rubbed one out, and watched a documentary on Scientology.
Quote: (01-27-2016 12:41 PM)General Stalin Wrote:
The only "good date" is one where you had a good time regardless of the outcome.
Forget looking forward to the second date. Forget rating a date based on whether or not you got laid. Forget analyzing how alpha/beta you were. Don't worry about your potential future with the girl.
I'll tell you the tail of an actual good date:
A little over a month ago I took a trip out of town for business. Center of the country; bible-belt. In a third tier city with not much going on, I hopped on OKC and started hitting up girls to hang with. One night I got this girl to meet me at the pub next door to my hotel.
I walk over there a few minutes after she tells me she's arrived. I find her at the bar chatting with some older guy sitting one seat over. She saved a seat for me between them with her jacket. I sit down and just start chatting with the guy (at first I thought she showed up with him because of how friendly they seemed so I started work on disarming). Turned out they didn't know eachother at all; the guy was just friendly and talkative. The girl and I start chatting and vibing. She's cute (6.5). Great chemistry.
We're laughing and getting onto deep emotional/existential topics. Kinda hippie/spiritual type. The bartender is hanging with us a bit, hooks us up with some free samples of new beers. We order a flight of darks and start getting buzzed. Having a great time. We start talking about music and I tell her about a couple bands I'm into that she might dig based on what she's about. I tell her I have music on my phone but the bar is no place to listen; let go hang in my hotel and listen to tunes. She shows some token resistance and I tell her "c'mon don't make it weird. Lets go listen to some music."
She agrees and we walk across the street. Her arms wrapped around mine. Giggling and talking. We get in my room and I already have the lights set to a good mood. I put on some tunes on my phone and we sit on the couch and get cozy. I escalate and go in for the kiss. We're talking some more and just touching eachother in between making out. I pick her up and pin her against the wall. Just having fun getting physical with her. We fool around a little more and she tells me she should go. I tell her she had better leave before she gets in trouble. She laughs and I walk her to her car. She texted me the next day thanking me saying she had a great time and "really needed that."
That's it. I had a good time. I went into it with zero expectations, and I came out of it with zero expectations. I didn't plan on seeing her again and didn't mind.
She ended up texting me a month later and we've been chatting a bit since. I convinced her to fly out here for a few days in a couple weeks. She emailed me her invoice for proof she bought the tickets.
Moral of the story is be more outcome independent.
I will add that I had another late-night date lined up after my date with this girl and I was at least 60% sure I was getting laid out of it. Dancer getting out of work and coming straight to my hotel bar to drink and hang. She shows up and texts me that the bar is closed so I tell her hang on I'll be down. She's good looking (7/7.5) but her demeanor was way different than the other girl. She wasn't down with there being no bars open in the area and was uncomfortable/awkward with the idea of not going somewhere to drink and refused to grab beers at the store and hang in my hotel so she decided to leave 5 minutes after she got there. Whatever don't care. Outcome independent. Her loss. I had a late dinner, rubbed one out, and watched a documentary on Scientology.
I think we've all had those great dates and enjoyed the time with the girl, no matter the outcome. The problem is: those are incredibly rare. More often you line up 3 dates for the night, the first two flake, the third is the last girl in your story, shows up, says hi, is strange and leaves. Sure I can be outcome independent, but I invested time in trying to get these people to meet up and got nothing but more confirmation the women of this generation are idiots and hardly worthy of the price of condoms. Outcome independence is fine, but when the outcomes are largely boring, bad or time wasting, its tough to say: Yeah, no worries, try next time, their loss. Because its probably not their loss. If it wasn't me, ten of thousands of other guys are willing to put up with the same BS.
Quote: (01-24-2016 07:46 PM)griffinmill Wrote:
Had a Tinder encounter yesterday with a chick who I was banging within 6 hours of the initial message. Went straight to her house and had her in bed within an hour of walking through the door. What she said to me after the bang was very interesting. She said that the initial pre-sex chat downstairs where we were trying to "figure each other out" was fraught with "awkwardness" but - and here's the crucial part - now things are "much more relaxed and happy".
Hearing a woman say this was a revelation because it's been something I've long suspected. Now, I certainly didn't feel any "awkwardness" before the bang as I was very relaxed, but a lot of these women project their own feelings of discomfort or insecurity onto you, which is why if you're not going for the Zero Date Bang model you're essentially wasting your time with online meets. Ghosting and post-date flaking is a huge problem, as everyone on this forum can attest to, and it is essentially down to socially retarded girls feeling "weirded out" (or, conversely, too comfortable!) on the first date and then making a snap judgement before disappearing into the night like Batman.
Half-jokingly I suggested it would be great to always get sex out of the way as quickly as possible, so that both people can chill the fuck out, and she basically agreed. It was confirmation, straight from the horse's mouth, to always be going for the Zero or First Date Bang Model.
So would this apply to cold approaching as well? A lot of girls are being weird/awkward because they don't know how to deal with people in real life?
I have a thought make the date revolve around something you have to get done irregardless of the date like an errand. Make the chick meet you at a grocery store or ride with you across town to some auto parts store to look at a part for your car.
I mean even if your not taking a chick to a restaurant most guys are wasting time on these low efficiency dates walking in a dog park or sitting on a damn bench or in a bar for hours and also wasting time before the date getting ready drinking or mental masturbation.
Multiple dates that end up with no returns is a mental drain and a poor management of time.
"make sure you get something out of it" is my new mantra. Now if one does get fun out of sitting down with a broad for an hour at a bar then god bless them, but it never seems that fun to me especially when I know it's an effort that has a low probability of success.
I mean even if your not taking a chick to a restaurant most guys are wasting time on these low efficiency dates walking in a dog park or sitting on a damn bench or in a bar for hours and also wasting time before the date getting ready drinking or mental masturbation.
Multiple dates that end up with no returns is a mental drain and a poor management of time.
"make sure you get something out of it" is my new mantra. Now if one does get fun out of sitting down with a broad for an hour at a bar then god bless them, but it never seems that fun to me especially when I know it's an effort that has a low probability of success.
This is a great thread.
I met a woman off Tinder, we met for a drink and I just wasn't feeling it. Had casual chit-chat about kids & schools & the neighborhood (she lives in the same area and has kids at my kids' school), gave her a hug and split.
Was bored about a week later and figured why not... asked her if she wanted to go catch some live music.
6 months later we're still fucking. Going out this weekend in fact. One time laying in her bed after fucking she turned to me and said "I thought you were never going to contact me again after that first date!". Turns out that I put off some kind of bad boy vibe and probably with my obvious initial disinterest, that got her going. She's semi-freaky in the sack and is at least enthusiastic about me using her hard.
On the other hand, I've had exactly the dates like Hank describes. You think everything goes well then you get the "I'm just not feeling it" text... or just totally ghosted.
I met a woman off Tinder, we met for a drink and I just wasn't feeling it. Had casual chit-chat about kids & schools & the neighborhood (she lives in the same area and has kids at my kids' school), gave her a hug and split.
Was bored about a week later and figured why not... asked her if she wanted to go catch some live music.
6 months later we're still fucking. Going out this weekend in fact. One time laying in her bed after fucking she turned to me and said "I thought you were never going to contact me again after that first date!". Turns out that I put off some kind of bad boy vibe and probably with my obvious initial disinterest, that got her going. She's semi-freaky in the sack and is at least enthusiastic about me using her hard.
On the other hand, I've had exactly the dates like Hank describes. You think everything goes well then you get the "I'm just not feeling it" text... or just totally ghosted.
I'm pretty sure I was the victim of a "good date" last night.
Matched a hottie from online. We agree to meet up the next day. I took her bowling (only cuz I don't have to pay to bowl at the local spot).
Of course on paper everything went well. We 'got along' great. When I went in for the kiss out in my car I get the cheek.
I saw it coming of course, so not really shocked. It's my fault for setting up an actual date instead of "come over...and bring booze" which normally gets me the bang.
I haven't texted her to follow up but pretty sure I know what to expect if I do.
If I was a noobie I'd be so upset / confused by this. But I've been around the block a time or two so it's nothing too shocking to the system. I still might try a Hail Mary text, though.
edit: She said "I don't kiss on the first date" and then alluded to a possible second date, which to me came off as paying lip service. Seems par for the course, really.
Matched a hottie from online. We agree to meet up the next day. I took her bowling (only cuz I don't have to pay to bowl at the local spot).
Of course on paper everything went well. We 'got along' great. When I went in for the kiss out in my car I get the cheek.
I saw it coming of course, so not really shocked. It's my fault for setting up an actual date instead of "come over...and bring booze" which normally gets me the bang.
I haven't texted her to follow up but pretty sure I know what to expect if I do.
If I was a noobie I'd be so upset / confused by this. But I've been around the block a time or two so it's nothing too shocking to the system. I still might try a Hail Mary text, though.
edit: She said "I don't kiss on the first date" and then alluded to a possible second date, which to me came off as paying lip service. Seems par for the course, really.
"Does PUA say that I just need to get to f-close base first here and some weird chemicals will be released in her brain to make her a better person?"
-Wonitis
Good date to a girl is sexual tension--electricity.
Good date to a guy is conection--electricity.
The more I feel I like a girl as a person before I bang her the higher the chance of not hearing from her again.
To quote dante nero:
"I don't like myself. I wear make up and heels because I don't like myself. I straighten my hair and paint my nails because I don't like myself. When you let a girl know you like her she goes "you like me?!?! EWWWW YOU FAGGOT!! I DONT EVEN LIKE MYSELF!!""
Good date to a guy is conection--electricity.
The more I feel I like a girl as a person before I bang her the higher the chance of not hearing from her again.
To quote dante nero:
"I don't like myself. I wear make up and heels because I don't like myself. I straighten my hair and paint my nails because I don't like myself. When you let a girl know you like her she goes "you like me?!?! EWWWW YOU FAGGOT!! I DONT EVEN LIKE MYSELF!!""
Attraction and passion are non-negotiable
I see this is a thread bump but it's just as relevant now as ever. I relate to just about all of Hank's observations about the dating game (outside of his height challenge...I don't have that problem).
When I read some of the early replies where people just blasted Hank for not escalating hard/fast enough, they are missing the point.
The point is that women, on paper, say they want romance, intimacy, to get to know someone at a deep level. But when you enter into a date treating her as another human being, actively listen, be respectful, shy away from sexual innuendo, don't get too touchy-feely, then she treats it not as chivalry but a lack of chemistry. Add in #MeToo and you have some seriously fucked up contradictory signals for guys to parse.
All of my recent first dates have been some variation on Hank's "good date" and all of them ended just like his. The reason why I was moving in slow gear is because when I went in for the kill too fast I didn't know who I was getting involved with, which led to the stage 5 clinger situation. That experience taught me that there really is merit for guys to know more about a woman before sticking it in too, but it seems like the only way to get something going is to go all-in right from the start and deal with the aftermath as it comes.
When I read some of the early replies where people just blasted Hank for not escalating hard/fast enough, they are missing the point.
The point is that women, on paper, say they want romance, intimacy, to get to know someone at a deep level. But when you enter into a date treating her as another human being, actively listen, be respectful, shy away from sexual innuendo, don't get too touchy-feely, then she treats it not as chivalry but a lack of chemistry. Add in #MeToo and you have some seriously fucked up contradictory signals for guys to parse.
All of my recent first dates have been some variation on Hank's "good date" and all of them ended just like his. The reason why I was moving in slow gear is because when I went in for the kill too fast I didn't know who I was getting involved with, which led to the stage 5 clinger situation. That experience taught me that there really is merit for guys to know more about a woman before sticking it in too, but it seems like the only way to get something going is to go all-in right from the start and deal with the aftermath as it comes.
I can also think back to situations in the past where I had strong signals from interested girls but I was too nice and too much of a pussy to escalate.
I think part of it was the fantasy of wanting a nice long term girlfriend and an emotional connection with someone. That meant I probably focused almost 100% on that and 0% on trying to fuck the girl. I was slowly building a connection rather than quickly escalating to sex, even when I was in situations where that was possible. It's pretty cringeworthy if you think about it, you're in a situation with a girl where you can have sex and you're not even touching her? It makes you look weak and scared. You can feel their attraction for you dissipate by the end of the night.
Now that I don't have that fantasy or want that even if I could have it, I focus 100% on trying to get laid and 0% on emotional connection.
Actually I purposefully try not to make an emotional connection, recently a girl I was with actually had a taste for good music and kept trying to talk about it with me. I did talk with her a little on the first and second times we saw other, but I knew it was a dangerous path I was walking down and always cut these conversations short until she stopped trying to talk about it.
I keep serious conversations for friends and don't try to have interesting conversations with girls ever. It works extremely well as my conversations with friends are usually lot better, and even if you do have a good conversation with a girl it only makes her lose attraction for you.
Even if I met a girl who could talk like Jordan Peterson, I still wouldn't bother having interesting conversations with her. It just feels completely wrong from a sexual polarity point of view. I would not want to be nodding along with wide eyes and a smile to a girl's talking, even if it was really interesting. It would feel wrong that she's teaching you things and you're interested to learn them. It would put her 'above' me or at least close to my level.
Remember, she wants to look up to you and you don't want to be in a competitive relationship with a girl. She would lose attraction for me and I probably would also lose attraction. Sex and interesting conversations just don't go together.
I think part of it was the fantasy of wanting a nice long term girlfriend and an emotional connection with someone. That meant I probably focused almost 100% on that and 0% on trying to fuck the girl. I was slowly building a connection rather than quickly escalating to sex, even when I was in situations where that was possible. It's pretty cringeworthy if you think about it, you're in a situation with a girl where you can have sex and you're not even touching her? It makes you look weak and scared. You can feel their attraction for you dissipate by the end of the night.
Now that I don't have that fantasy or want that even if I could have it, I focus 100% on trying to get laid and 0% on emotional connection.
Actually I purposefully try not to make an emotional connection, recently a girl I was with actually had a taste for good music and kept trying to talk about it with me. I did talk with her a little on the first and second times we saw other, but I knew it was a dangerous path I was walking down and always cut these conversations short until she stopped trying to talk about it.
I keep serious conversations for friends and don't try to have interesting conversations with girls ever. It works extremely well as my conversations with friends are usually lot better, and even if you do have a good conversation with a girl it only makes her lose attraction for you.
Even if I met a girl who could talk like Jordan Peterson, I still wouldn't bother having interesting conversations with her. It just feels completely wrong from a sexual polarity point of view. I would not want to be nodding along with wide eyes and a smile to a girl's talking, even if it was really interesting. It would feel wrong that she's teaching you things and you're interested to learn them. It would put her 'above' me or at least close to my level.
Remember, she wants to look up to you and you don't want to be in a competitive relationship with a girl. She would lose attraction for me and I probably would also lose attraction. Sex and interesting conversations just don't go together.
"Especially Roosh offers really good perspectives. But like MW said, at the end of the day, is he one of us?"
- Reciproke, posted on the Roosh V Forum.
I had the same problem with a girl from Okcupid months ago, just that instead of not answering back she kept messaging me like her chat buddy. When I realized I'd never have a 2nd date, I stopped messaging her.
Problem was not sexual escalating on first date and everything guys said on here is true (at least for me).
Problem was not sexual escalating on first date and everything guys said on here is true (at least for me).
Quote: (02-11-2018 07:12 AM)Lordleon Wrote:
instead of not answering back she kept messaging me like her chat buddy.
In addition to being silently filed away as a beta-orbiter either before or after a first-date, there are also a lot of women out there who are basically dating-poseurs. As an older guy going after women closer to my own age I run into this a lot. They have family and/or work responsibilities and simply do not have enough time left to date, but they DO have time to message. So you wind up in this pen-pal purgatory. They never just come out and say "sorry, I don't have time to date". Instead they shake off attempts to meet up and things just keep getting punted further and further into the future. I think some of these women are in heavy denial of how impossible it is for them to date, thinking as long as they maintain the messaging they can feel they are participating but they never deliver the goods. They are nothing but time-wasters.
I am also starting to see this addressed in profiles, though. Some women say stuff like "let's not text forever and meet up" or "not looking for a pen-pal". When I see that sort of thing I know she's at least serious about flesh-and-blood contact. But it also illustrates that men probably string women along as text-orbiters as well, for whatever reason. People are too f*cking busy these days in general and getting any sort of face-time, platonic or otherwise, is like pulling teeth.
Quote: (01-27-2016 12:41 PM)General Stalin Wrote:
She ended up texting me a month later and we've been chatting a bit since. I convinced her to fly out here for a few days in a couple weeks. She emailed me her invoice for proof she bought the tickets.
Moral of the story is be more outcome independent.
All I could think about reading this was a commercial I saw the other day where an old black man is advising a younger black man not to call a woman twice in the same day.
"Love is like ribs, you gotta let the love juices marinate overnight."
Good job.
Hidey-ho, RVFerinos!
Quote: (12-29-2015 05:09 PM)HankMoody Wrote:
On Friday, she finally texts back: "Hey Hank. I really liked hanging out with you. But I don't think that we're a very good fit. I wish you the best of luck with everything, and your writing. Take care."
--
See post below this. The point of this story is to show how what you think is a "good" date actually generated no attraction whatsoever. This date happened about 2 years ago.
I have been on a good number of dates like this in the past. 10 years ago I was very athletic and handsome, making very good money. My OkC success rate was very poor at the beginning compared to where I ended it.
The thing is that lots of women will see one or two attractive things about you, and decide to give you a shot. She probably liked your status and attitude but hated your height, but felt... well let's give this a go.
Now, it's important to note that there are several kinds of chemistry and not every woman is looking for the same kind. You ran this kind of date on her and failed, but there are other women that this would have worked miracles with. That "we are so similar" chemistry is strong in older women, but not as common in younger women.
Sexual chemistry is what you should have been trying to build with her. This is what creating non threatening sexual banter, and escalation can achieve for you. Remember that women respond to passion. Sometimes it's helpful to imagine yourself as radiating sexual heat, and having such a strong attraction to her that you cannot help yourself.
However, even this may not have saved the day. There is a potential she wants "opposites attract" style chemistry. This is where reading her profile and getting her to talk about some key things would have helped you determine a better strategy for scoring with her. Younger women tend to go bananas for opposites attract chemistry. It's very common in low self esteem women.
Quote: (02-10-2018 11:40 AM)questor70 Wrote:
... but it seems like the only way to get something going is to go all-in right from the start and deal with the aftermath as it comes.
Bingo. Most everything in life worth having involves desire winning over fear at some point along the way
_______________________________________
- Does She Have The "Happy Gene" ?
-Inversion Therapy
-Let's lead by example
"Leap, and the net will appear". John Burroughs
"The big question is whether you are going to be able to say a hearty yes to your adventure."
Joseph Campbell
Quote: (02-11-2018 12:46 PM)questor70 Wrote:
In addition to being silently filed away as a beta-orbiter either before or after a first-date, there are also a lot of women out there who are basically dating-poseurs. As an older guy going after women closer to my own age I run into this a lot. They have family and/or work responsibilities and simply do not have enough time left to date, but they DO have time to message. So you wind up in this pen-pal purgatory. They never just come out and say "sorry, I don't have time to date". Instead they shake off attempts to meet up and things just keep getting punted further and further into the future. I think some of these women are in heavy denial of how impossible it is for them to date, thinking as long as they maintain the messaging they can feel they are participating but they never deliver the goods. They are nothing but time-wasters.
Nah. I've had girls who drove out an hour+ to meet me, and others who wouldn't give me the time of day even though we were barely 15 minutes apart. If a woman is interested, she'll make the time for you, somehow.
Many, if not all, of these women are getting dicked by some guy(s) while they hold out for someone they deem "worthy" enough for a relationship on their terms. She'll text other guys because she enjoys the attention and validation, it confirms that she's "still got it" (especially as they get older - they need this kind of confirmation more than their younger counterparts). I've had women friends of mine openly confess to bangin 1-2 guys on the side on-demand, while on the search for something long term.
Moral of the story: if she cancels once, at the most twice, hard next her.
Pussy ain't for pussies...
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