[R_Niko]

Gavin McInnes is one of my favorite dudes ever, but come fucking on. How can he in good conscience say something so ridiculous?

[Tim in real life]

I made a persoal policy of giving them doses of their own medicine.

Seriously, why the motherfucking hell should I help you, right after you mocked me?

[Hades]

Gavin McGinnis is a skeptic, so being edgy is part of the territory.

[Days of Broken Arrows]

"A lot of these guys are too pussy to propose. And that is because they're getting the milk for free so they refuse to buy the cow."

Wrong.

1. This is degrading to men and women because it reduces men to mindless sex machines and women to holes. Despite what he says, this is not "all men care about." Shakespeare wrote love sonnets, not sex stories. The Beatles sang "I Wanna Hold Your Hand," not "I Wanna Fuck Your Face." Much of what fueled marriage was romance and the notion of love.

McInnes and others who use this analogy should instead be asking why the notion of romance has disappeared from modern life. As noted, men have historically written the poems, sonnets, and love songs. If they're not inspired to act the concepts in those works of art out in real life, why is that?

2. The "cow/milk" analogy, I believe, dates back to the 1920s, if it's not older. Bringing it up now fails to take into account the larger context in which that analogy would hold.

I grew up in the '80s and know a lot of older guys (like my college professors) who came of age in the '60s. Trust me, there was a LOT of milk for free then for all of us. And yet men proposed to women all the time in those eras.

So it's not free milk that's the problem. McInnes should know this. It doesn't take research to see this.

The problem with conservatives is they think if men just acted like it was 1965 then it would be 1965. They ignore the myriad of anti-male divorce laws, social pressures, changing customs, economic issues, and changing family structure that all contribute to making men what they are today.

***

Finally, why is he picking apart a song by Gotye? Music by men hasn't changed all that much, thematically speaking, since the days of Elvis. You have basically three types of songs by men that become hits: Bragging bad boy songs, romance/love songs, and whining break up/depression songs.

Yet if you look at the music women are making, you'll see a major change from the 1950s to now. Women's music pretty much went from romance and teen tragedy to out-and-out porn pop.

Why would a conservative look at Gotye's song (in which the title even references an old Streisand number "Someone That I Used to Love") yet fail to draw an analogy between women's music then and now and women themselves then and now?

Or, to make it more clear: Do you think you would have an easier time wifing up Wanda Jackson (the wildest commercial female rocker of the '50s) or Ke$ha? If you look at the lives of both these women, the answer is easy and it ain't Ke$ha.*

Conclusion: Don't ask us to behave like men did in the old days unless you're giving us the reality and culture in which those men lived. And that includes the women.

* Another comparison and let's limit it to physical looks only: Would you rather wife up the most popular ballad singers of older eras, like Connie Francis (1950s), Petula Clark (1960s), Barbra Streisand (1970s), or Mariah (1990s), or today's "catch," Adele?

[Anabasis to Desta]

Quote:

I grew up in the '80s and know a lot of older guys (like my college professors) who came of age in the '60s. Trust me, there was a LOT of milk for free then for all of us. And yet men proposed to women all the time in those eras.

So it's not free milk that's the problem. McInnes should know this. It doesn't take research to see this.

The problem with conservatives is they think if men just acted like it was 1965 then it would be 1965. They ignore the myriad of anti-male divorce laws, social pressures, changing customs, economic issues, and changing family structure that all contribute to making men what they are today.

^This. Men are the real romantics.

I'd like to add something relevant I read somewhere a while ago.

"Even though they still want to have sex with new women, men end up trading their freedom for her purity. Why do men need purity to feel loved? Why is it so important? Because most men can’t accept female affection from a woman who is fucking another guy. It repulses them. This is rooted in our biology.

Marriage guarantees a man years of consistent, reliable and pure form of the drug he really wants ...female affection. Guys don’t get married for the sex; they get married for the affection aka love.

That's the marriage trade off. Men get purity. Women get security."

Almost every civilization in the past has put a premium on female purity for that reason. Men are not going to give up their biological imperative ( fucking and impregnating different women) for a used up slut.

Our end of the deal which is Purity is almost impossible to come about in the 21st century which is why we're not proposing.

PS: I like Gavin & he raises some good points in an easily digestible and funny manner but he seems like a very immature attention whore to me.

[samsamsam]

I'd pay good money for a song called "I wanna fuck your face". I bet it wouldn't be some 80s power ballad. Probably some guy screaming it.

[Dark Knowledge]

Love Gavin. But I think this youtube comment best sums this up:

MGTOW FTW 6 hours ago
+MargaretHagar ha, I have much love for Gavin, and his ideas make sense... in a non-broken world.

[Travesty]

This guy is a degenerate, he doesn't deserve respect. Just because he shares some ideas with us doesn't mean much.

He loved talking about double teaming some slut for laughs on Joe Rogan's podcast for all the public to hear when he has a wife and kids right now. It is just a slap in the face to family.

[R_Niko]

(11-27-2015 05:16 PM)Travesty Wrote:  

This guy is a degenerate, he doesn't deserve respect. Just because he shares some ideas with us doesn't mean much.

He loved talking about double teaming some slut for laughs on Joe Rogan's podcast for all the public to hear when he has a wife and kids right now. It is just a slap in the face to family.

That's kind of his brand, though. Take some vulgar comedian who talks the same way--would his wife have a problem with the millions of dollars he makes? Same with Gavin. I'm sure his wife knew what she was getting into.

[Requiem]

(11-27-2015 05:16 PM)Travesty Wrote:  

This guy is a degenerate, he doesn't deserve respect. Just because he shares some ideas with us doesn't mean much.

He loved talking about double teaming some slut for laughs on Joe Rogan's podcast for all the public to hear when he has a wife and kids right now. It is just a slap in the face to family.

Solid opinions here. Extremely scarce but very true and valuable.

He talks a lot of shit in public while relying on his wife to be decent enough not to jeopardize the marriage over his horseplay. It's disrespectful but he seems to be lucky enough to have made a good catch so he doesn't understand why everybody else doesn't do the same.

I like how he tackles the SJWs and he's probably helpful in that regard but overall I'm not so sure about his personality.

[Eskhander]

Pretty sure marriage is higher than ever among the upper and middle classes. This is just proles being able to act like Chimps...acting like chimps.

[WanderingSoul]

The simple fact is that the large, large majority of women are not marriage material.

For those of us who have graduated high school within the last 5-15 years, how many girls did you know that would make legitimately good wives and mothers?

How many of them didn't fuck multiple, sometimes 5-10 or more, guys before they turned 21?

How many can cook?

How many were thin?

How many conducted themselves with class and integrity?

How many wanted to become wives to good men and raise a family?

How many view marriage as a life long commitment, and don't believe divorce is a backup plan?

Honestly, I couldn't even fill up one hand with the number of women who meet the above criteria.

[MrLemon]

(11-27-2015 09:52 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

For those of us who have graduated high school within the last 5-15 years, how many girls did you know that would make legitimately good wives and mothers?

How many of them didn't fuck multiple, sometimes 5-10 or more, guys before they turned 21?

How many can cook?

How many were thin?

How many conducted themselves with class and integrity?

How many wanted to become wives to good men and raise a family?

How many view marriage as a life long commitment, and don't believe divorce is a backup plan?

This is a good list. Keep this list in mind when you decide to look for a wife. As you said, the odds are terrible, but at least you know the qualities to look for.

Most guys have no clue.

[Suits]

The responses in this thread are absolutely brilliant.

[R_Niko]

(11-27-2015 09:40 PM)Eskhander Wrote:  

Pretty sure marriage is higher than ever among the upper and middle classes. This is just proles being able to act like Chimps...acting like chimps.

U.S. marriage rate hits new low and may continue to decline
Read more at http://national.deseretnews.com/article/...3sYO4IL.99

[R_Niko]

(11-27-2015 09:52 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

The simple fact is that the large, large majority of women are not marriage material.

For those of us who have graduated high school within the last 5-15 years, how many girls did you know that would make legitimately good wives and mothers?

Practically none. Maybe 1/5 of the girls I found attractive wound up being any kind of decent wife. And the remaining single ones are now 32+ so their days are numbered.

[Black Knight]

(11-27-2015 02:46 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

Shakespeare wrote love sonnets, not sex stories. The Beatles sang "I Wanna Hold Your Hand," not "I Wanna Fuck Your Face."

[Eskhander]

(11-27-2015 10:20 PM)R_Niko Wrote:  

(11-27-2015 09:40 PM)Eskhander Wrote:  

Pretty sure marriage is higher than ever among the upper and middle classes. This is just proles being able to act like Chimps...acting like chimps.

U.S. marriage rate hits new low and may continue to decline
Read more at http://national.deseretnews.com/article/...3sYO4IL.99

I did qualify my statement a bit.

https://whiskeysplace.wordpress.com/2012...ss-divide/

5 years old I admit.

[R_Niko]

On the topic of why women aren't marriageable, I was thinking of Roosh's criteria for a wife (I think 18-25, fewer than three sex partners, and a couple others), and I thought, okay, start talking only to girls in this age group. I find they're slightly wiser than the girls I knew at that age (8 to 15 years ago) insomuch as they seem to notice how miserable their older counterparts are. If not notice, then at least sense it in the zeitgeist, and I think it's influencing them somewhat, just not enough. Ex. I was talking to an 18 year old who said she definitely wants to have a family (most 26+ say they don't, or are "waiting"), which was good to hear, and when I expected to hear her add, "after I do/accomplish a, b, and c" she instead added "I want to be married at least five years before I have kids", which I find not necessarily wise but still a lot wiser than her predecessors, ya know? What does everyone think about the younger demo being perhaps salvageable.

[Charles Martel]

I'm going to try and give Gavin a bit of break here...

But only a little.

As a Gavin- fan, I am disappointed in this presentation. It feels a bit like getting stabbed in the back with a fork...not lethal, but painful as hell.

It may be that this was a good idea, but very poorly executed (like 99% of Hollywood blockbusters).

Neomasculinity is about men taking responsibilities and control for themselves...both the here and now and their future. What Gavin is getting at here, is men doing just that. Roosh and Quintus Curtius have written recently on what truly forms western civilization, which means the traditional family...love and children. This is not to be underestimated. It is fact and a very key piece of masculinity and the proper ordering of society.

While we would all approve of Gavin being more direct here, the implication is there...he is saying marry quality women...give them that option. I don't appreciate at all his comment..."you feel like you need to have x amount of dicks..." [paraphrase]. He is a smart guy and should know that virginal marriage is not only the philosophical ideal, it is backed by scientific studies.

I do however, believe that marriage, of the most traditional sort, is the key to a healthy, dynamic and lasting civilization. As men, that does entail taking the lead and yes, the risk.

Having experienced divorce rape first hand, I can tell you, I have no wish to repeat it, nor do I recommend it for anyone. That said, we, as men, do have to take the lead in (re)creating a just society. Leadership assumes risk, defacto. Sometimes grim, but a fact, nonetheless.

Two rules that should be absolute, within the context of what Gavin s talking about (and, with hubris, I think he would agree with)-

1. NEVER wife-up a whore. A whore defined as a woman with more than three life time sexual events. "Oh? You've been with four guys? (That means a minimum of twelve anyway) See ya!"

2. Game your wife endlessly. 24-motherfucking-7. For those of us whom it does not come naturally, it is not easy...it is exhausting. Nevertheless, that is the requirement of a successful marriage and you had better understand that from the beginning.

While keeping a wary eye, let's cut Gavin a break here. Again, I don't think he executed it very well, but I do think his mind is in the right place...note that he is still calling feminists out and encouraging women to marry young.

Just some thought-points.

[civpro]

He's right that there's a breakdown across the board in terms of traditional values but ultimately it is women who are taking the lead and men who are following. And for all his talk of playing cupid, nothing is said of the guys' leagues. Most girls' true value-match past 25 is a balding skinny-fat manlet, yet modern dating culture renders these men invisible.

[SamuelBRoberts]

Gavin's just old, and out of touch.

How out of touch is Gavin? He once tried to set up his 23-year old producer with Mercedes Carera, a porn star almost twice the boy's age. When the producer turned down the opportunity to date the star of "MILF Gangbangs 7", Gavin got mad and [url=http://takimag.com/article/a_no_jerk_reaction_gavin_mcinnes/print#axzz3slcTaMeb
]wrote a long post[/url] at Takimag about how men don't just want to date women, and blamed it on porn.

I hate to bring back the old manosphere trope of "shaming language" but it really does apply here. I guess even Gavin doesn't think he can sell you on the benefits of marriage, so instead you get a lecture about how you need to man up and marry the sluts. There wasn't a single word about why a man would want to get married, just a lot of hot air.

One of the things that worries me most about the way things are going is that the manosphere is filled with people who want to get married, but there only a small group of people who've actually done it successfully. I can only think of three happily married bloggers in the 'sphere, Mike Cernovich, Vox Day, and Dalrock. The first two are rich and good looking, and the latter is a devout Christian. They're good guys, but their lives are so different from the rest of us that there's not a lot of lessons we can take from them.

I see lots of people who think they know what it takes to find a wife and have a successful marriage. They say things like, "If you want to get married, you have to go to a small town and look for a girl there," or, like Charles Martel above, "You need to game your wife endlessly, 24-7."
But I've never seen anyone in the manosphere who went to a small town and found a good girl there, or who was able to keep their wife happy by gaming them constantly. Just a lot of talk from people who've never actually done it. We're all virgin teenage boys, swapping sex tips we read in our older sister's copy of Cosmo.

Maybe it's impossible for an average guy to find a wife and have a happy marriage. I want to get married myself, someday, but that's the conclusion I'm starting to come to.

Did anybody reading this thread follow Gavin's advice and wife up your girlfriend, and then it worked out for them? Is there anybody here who can say, "I got married, I'm glad I did, and I recommend it to you too"? This forum's got thousands of members, and they're not all PUAs. There's gotta be somebody, right? Right?

[Odin]

(11-27-2015 03:01 PM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  

"Even though they still want to have sex with new women, men end up trading their freedom for her purity. Why do men need purity to feel loved? Why is it so important? Because most men can’t accept female affection from a woman who is fucking another guy. It repulses them. This is rooted in our biology.

Marriage guarantees a man years of consistent, reliable and pure form of the drug he really wants ...female affection. Guys don’t get married for the sex; they get married for the affection aka love.

That's the marriage trade off. Men get purity. Women get security."

And that is the dilemma we live in, A man wants love , trust, purity and honesty from a woman and i expect the same applies for women, but in this present age these values are getting harder to find and almost impossible to keep in a long term relationship.

In the 60s it was snail mail or a landline that was used to communicate, people got married, lived on a farm, had 2.5 kids, a dog and mortgage. The family unit was rock solid because they were a group that relied solely on each other and friends/relatives to get through. Each week you might attend the local town/ church get together ..but that was really the limit of your interactions outside the family unit besides work.

With the introduction of mobile phones, viber, facebook, tinder, instant messaging,whatsapp, over the last 30 years, interaction with others or finding new friends is instantaneous. It's too easy to communicate and look for something new, hell you just need to click on someone you like on facebook and send them a message, or go to an online dating site and arrange a date and 2 hours later you're in a hotel with your new partner.

That's the problem, whenever a relationship runs into problems ( all do) ..then it's just too simple to find a quick alternative. That's why IMHO, the concept of marriage in the present age is antiquated and flawed. It's like playing financial russian roulette with 5 bullets , you going to lose money whatever happens, " why get married, just give a house to someone you don't particularly like"...

Interesting times we live in, more people seem to live alone because trust in others is difficult to obtain. Many guys i know have moved to countries like the Philippines, Thailand to live, it's like moving back in time 50 years ...and i guess that's exactly what they are looking for ..

[Easy_C]

Yes. I've done exactly what you say is possible and detailed how I did it in a fairly long post.

Here's the thing: if you keep doing exactly what you've done then you're going to keep getting the same results. Finding a good wife will require you to look at girls and in places you aren't used to.

Hint: its not the clubs nor the people who hang out in them( some line dancing chicks excluded).

[262]

I remember MikeCF tweeted a few days ago about a conservative book that seemed to propose the same thing that Gavin seems to be proposing - the "if young men acted like it was 1965, it would be like 1965" argument.

In response to the premise of the book, MikeCF said (and I agree) that that's the GOP's version of feminism. His response to that is something I also agree with:

"Become a GREAT man and DEMAND women in your life be great. The "man up" stuff from the GOP says be great and then accept any bullshit. Nah!"

https://mobile.twitter.com/Cernovich/sta...0757401600

Edit: In fact, I would further argue that the GOP's "be a great man ... and then accept any bullshit" is in fact a major CAUSE of how the US ended up in the mess it's in now.