[EuroSlumming]

This subject will always get taken over by the USA 'bigger is better' perspective where working out is very popular. In some respects the US is perhaps the worst place to do it because the bar is set so much higher at the level of musculature (almost cartoon like) that is required to really stand out.

[pamplonabull]

(11-08-2015 07:09 AM)EuroSlumming Wrote:  

This subject will always get taken over by the USA 'bigger is better' perspective where working out is very popular. In some respects the US is perhaps the worst place to do it because the bar is set so much higher at the level of musculature (almost cartoon like) that is required to really stand out.

I have the bodybuilder look.

I am late 20s and have been pumping iron since the year I turned 20.

I am gifted genetically, but have been disciplined with my diet and training ever since I started. I am no ordinary trainer. Training in the gym has been my life. I train extremely hard and freely admit I am addicted to the way I look. My body is everything to me. I am 98kg, 181 cm, 13/14% body fat.

I am not that lean, but lean enough.

The entire argument about musculature is intriguing. There is talk that men in the USA are getting bigger all the time, and the roided look is permeating the gym scene more and more to the point where everyone looks massive. I don't live there, so I wouldn't know.

At the same time, I see women on YouTube being interviewed about how they don't like guys that are too big. It seems that men are going one way and women are going the other.

I don't believe being too big helps. Being too big, e.g. looking like an IFBB competitor, represents extreme behaviour. In society, all forms of extreme behaviour is shunned, so why should the way you look be any different. For all we know, being a 120kg bodybuilder who has spent his whole life on steroids appears to women as a woman with fake lips, orange skin, fake cheek bones and extra extra large tits would appear to us. That is, just too weird.

My size has helped me, but I do know that some women thin I am too big and I lose scores because of it. I am a gamer, and have perfected game over the last 7 years. I get two 9s a month. I don't go lower than a 9.

In order of importance, I would say game is most important, then facial looks, then body (given your bod is OK).

There's a guy I know here in Australia who is exceptionally good looking. He has modelled extensively. He is a 10, to women : 6'2", tanned skin, blonde hair and deep green eyes with a perfectly chiselled face. When he walks in to a room, women literally make uncontrollable sounds. His body is nothing compared to mine, but there is not a woman on the planet who would have sex with me before him.

If you have a body like mine and have zero game and a mug face, you'll struggle to get women. My game is good and I am average looking.

Hope that helps...

Cheers

[rikardo_82]

I started lift 3 years ago then I was with some fat not much ~14-15% BF 202lbs @6'4 3 years forward I'm with visible abs ~11-12%BF 235lbs There is not any difference at all not a single girl ever notice me give eye contact etc. Where I live are long summers every day I go to beach etc... Yes OP is right there is zero difference at least for me.

[johnfortunebg]

(11-08-2015 10:52 AM)rikardo_82 Wrote:  

I started lift 3 years ago then I was with some fat not much ~14-15% BF 202lbs @6'4 3 years forward I'm with visible abs ~11-12%BF 235lbs There is not any difference at all not a single girl ever notice me give eye contact etc. Where I live are long summers every day I go to beach etc... Yes OP is right there is zero difference at least for me.

I don't believe even 1 bit that you can supposedly gain ~16 kg of non-fat mass and that will not affect your interactions with women.

[Moma]

pamplonabull, I don't believe you, bro.

[Ingocnito]

While you grow your chiseled jacked physique, it's imperative to grow your mind and aura. The default for many jacked dudes is to carry an outwardly notable sense of anger and discontent... not the type that tells a woman you could destroy a village to get to her pussy either. Frustration rather. I know some seriously jacked guys who haven't bridged that gap.

Sure they get women from time to time based on the extreme comparison in their physique to other men, but they haven't established the skill to own a room, and maintain control of people's attention. If you can keep a small group's attention, you can definitely attract women.

Charisma is the deal maker however. Sometimes the opportunity cost of hours in the gym, takes time away from quality social interactions. 3 yeras ago I was spending so much time in the gym, my social skills got a bit rusty. I was +25 lbs of muscle and rather beastly, but I'm much smoother, calculated, and more natural with women than I was as a gym ogre. For reference I'm 6'4".. was 260 full ogre, now I'm averaging about 233 lbs.. and many people tell me I look the best I've ever looked right now. I prefer 240 on me, so I've got some winter growth to do.

[Giovonny]

Of course weightlifting is not a panacea for attraction problems.

For women, "attraction" is based on a variety of factors, looks is only one factor.

What about the mans personality, face, social skills, sex appeal, communication skills, power, money,etc.

All of these things can be a factor in determining attraction.

Being big is not necessarily enough, you gotta big and sexy or big and cool or big and handsome or big + great personality.

Big and ugly might not work. Big + no social skills might not work.

We have to be well rounded.

BUT... you guys already knew that!

--

What I really want to say is this:

Most guys don't even know how to lift weights!

I see the same guys in the gym everyday and their body never improves!

- Fat guys with big arms and a fat belly. They don't know how to eat properly. They lift weights but their body is still unattractive to most women.

- Skinny guys who never get bigger. They don't know how to properly lift or eat. They train for muscle endurance not muscle growth. They don't eat enough to grow. They lift weights but their body never improves.

- Amateur "bulkers", these guys eat as much as they can and get fat. They developed a gut. They say they are "bulking".. A year later, they are just fatter and slightly thicker. They lift weights but their body is still unattractive to most women.

- No legs guys, these guys never lift legs. They have chicken legs. They don't know that the largest muscles are in the legs and lifting legs releases the most amount of growth hormones into the body.

- Steroid users, they look great while they are juicing but is that lifestyle sustainable? What happens when they stop taking steroids? Have they built the proper habits to maintain a nice body or will they turn into a fat fuck with bitch titties? Some guys can manage it, others can't. Some steroids are made from quality ingredients, some are made from shit.

Lifting weights doesn't guarantee a nice body.

You must educate yourself on the proper ways to lift weights. You must study and research the best ways for your body to grow. You should talk to experienced weight lifters and learn for their advice. Much trial and error is needed.

Diet becomes just as important as weights if you really want to max out your results.

Most guys are not properly educated in how to achieve a nice body. It's more than just lifting weights, it's lifting weights properly in a highly educated way, its eating high quality foods consistently and at the right times, its sleep, rest, and lifestyle, controlling your partying and drinking, etc.

It's working the parts of your body that has been neglected. Keeping your body symmetrical and your muscles balanced.

Lifting weights is not enough.

We must lift intelligently, eat intelligently, rest intelligently, and constantly be aware of our weaknesses and problem areas. That is, if you really want to get a nice body.

[Anabasis to Desta]

(11-08-2015 10:52 AM)rikardo_82 Wrote:  

I started lift 3 years ago then I was with some fat not much ~14-15% BF 202lbs @6'4 3 years forward I'm with visible abs ~11-12%BF 235lbs There is not any difference at all not a single girl ever notice me give eye contact etc. Where I live are long summers every day I go to beach etc... Yes OP is right there is zero difference at least for me.

1) You're 6'4 - that puts you in the top 2% of the population height-wise.

2) 235 lbs & 11 % bf at 6'4 and you'll most likely look like this. Different insertions maybe but same height, weight & body fat.



You claim not a single girl ever notices you or gives you eye contact?

Very hard to believe.

[OGNorCal707]

(11-08-2015 01:55 PM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  

(11-08-2015 10:52 AM)rikardo_82 Wrote:  

I started lift 3 years ago then I was with some fat not much ~14-15% BF 202lbs @6'4 3 years forward I'm with visible abs ~11-12%BF 235lbs There is not any difference at all not a single girl ever notice me give eye contact etc. Where I live are long summers every day I go to beach etc... Yes OP is right there is zero difference at least for me.

1) You're 6'4 - that puts you in the top 2% of the population height-wise.

2) 235 lbs & 11 % bf at 6'4 and you'll most likely look like this. Different insertions maybe but same height, weight & body fat.



You claim not a single girl ever notices you or gives you eye contact?

Very hard to believe.

Maybe he's got a face like the elephant man.

[Kaizen]

I've been injured and haven't made it to the gym in 4 months. Have lost a lot of gains.

It would normally pain me to miss even a single workout.

Well..the sky hasn't fallen. Still meeting and banging girls.

Of course I'm going to be right in the gym once I'm healthy. But this forced break made me realize don't take things too seriously.

If I'm lean with a bit of muscle on me I'm happy. Going to lose the dream of looking like a fitness model. Girls don't care that much.

[The Lizard of Oz]

(11-08-2015 02:32 PM)Kaizen Wrote:  

I've been injured and haven't made it to the gym in 4 months. Have lost a lot of gains.

It would normally pain me to miss even a single workout.

Well..the sky hasn't fallen. Still meeting and banging girls.

Of course I'm going to be right in the gym once I'm healthy. But this forced break made me realize don't take things too seriously.

If I'm lean with a bit of muscle on me I'm happy. Going to lose the dream of looking like a fitness model. Girls don't care that much.

Kaizen, that absence from the gym has likely contributed to the diminishing quality of orgasms that you've noted in a previous post:

(10-20-2015 07:23 PM)Kaizen Wrote:  

It's been sometime since Ive had a mind-blowing orgasm. More often it's just an ejaculatory reflex. No shakes, no moaning. Doesn't even feel like a physical release. I don't like this.

Things i'm thinking:

I'm old (40)
no mental connection with girls I'm fucking
often boozed up during sex

Thoughts?

It's likely that your free test levels have plummeted as a result of your weightlifting hiatus, and if you combine that with excessive drinking -- and particularly fucking when drunk -- there's your answer, in all likelihood.

The truth is that while hard and correct weightlifting does contribute to some extent to one's ability to attract pussy, what it contributes to much more decisively is one's libido and ability to enjoy that pussy, particularly if one is no longer very young. That is perhaps the very best reason to do it.

[Rush87]

(11-08-2015 07:09 AM)EuroSlumming Wrote:  

This subject will always get taken over by the USA 'bigger is better' perspective where working out is very popular. In some respects the US is perhaps the worst place to do it because the bar is set so much higher at the level of musculature (almost cartoon like) that is required to really stand out.

I will agree to some degree. Coming from Australia muscle is a huge factor. A ripped 80kg and 6 foot [While pretty damn big globally] won't really stand out here [I use this number because that was my starting point years ago]. So in other words the level of musculature required to really stand out is quite high.

I'm 96 currently and I did find that when I was in France I didn't receive any beneficial treatment due to muscle. In the UK, Denmark, The Netherlands I got plenty. France and Spain… Not so much.

[Kaizen]

Thanks Liz^

The weightlifting - T levels gets thrown around a lot.

Is this bro science or is there real science behind it?

[The Lizard of Oz]

(11-08-2015 05:36 PM)Kaizen Wrote:  

Thanks Liz^

The weightlifting - T levels gets thrown around a lot.

Is this bro science or is there real science behind it?

Of course it's real. The immediate (acute) response in serum test after resistance training has been known forever, see this study and countless others. What's more significant than the acute response is the fact that anabolizing training (particularly the large compound motions, squats, deads, and pullups) likely increases the equilibrium sensitization of androgen receptors. In other words, it's not just the free test levels but also the receptors' ability to respond to them that matters.

Of course this response is strongly modulated by other factors, most importantly sleep and stress chemistry. Bad low quality sleep and high stress levels are terrible for your test levels and for the whole downstream chain of production. As Gio says in his excellent post upthread, it's not just lifting weights, it's also sleep, rest and lifestyle. But given the conditions of a good healthy lifestyle, there is no doubt that hard weightlifting can contribute to higher test levels and increased androgen receptor efficiency.

The acute response should be obvious to anyone who has lifted weights hard. When you come out of the gym after a hard lift your reaction to girls should be almost ridiculous, it's like even the plainest piece of pussy requires you to take it in hand and fuck it, anything that has boobs and butt arrests and mesmerizes your eye. You are slowed down and walking through a testosterone haze. Tits in particular acquire a terrible density and gravity and they loom very large and almost reach out to you, as in this legendary Ghanaian short film:

http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/vi...bv2dy5fBej

*******

In short, it's real, LOL.

[Moma]

Lizard, that is one of my favourite ghallywood flicks!!

To younger guys, this is how you should seize the bulls by the horns. Watch below clip (only 3 mins):

[Kaizen]

^ Possibly.

But the study you reference confirm surges of GH and T after exercise. It does not prove anything about basal levels.

[The Lizard of Oz]

(11-08-2015 09:43 PM)Kaizen Wrote:  

^ Possibly.

But the study you reference confirm surges of GH and T after exercise. It does not prove anything about basal levels.

Kaizen, note that the long-term effects I described did not refer to basal levels of test, but rather to the sensitization over time of androgen receptors. That is something which is quite difficult to isolate in studies, but very easy to observe in oneself and others.

It is important not to exaggerate the utility of "studies" when it comes to intricate systems that have wide individual variation and whose effects can be easily observed in the individual as a whole.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15831061

In other words, while the acute response in easily measurable in studies, long-term adaptations of resistance training are not well caught by snapshot numbers like free test or total test, but are complex and easily observed in their gross effects over time.

[rudebwoy]

Gio - words of wisdom as per usual.

Lifting weights doesn't guarantee a good body, nor does taking steroids. People think it is as easy as sticking a needle, it is not.

As mentioned, Diet is just as important or more so than lifting weights.

Another thing you have to ask yourself, when will you get in shape. As you get older you have to train harder, metabolism slows down hence your body stores more fat.

[Merenguero]

(11-08-2015 11:02 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

As mentioned, Diet is just as important or more so than lifting weights.

Agreed. If you spend some time in New Jersey, you will see enough guys who lift regularly, but have absolutely horrible dietary habits. They are strong as hell in the gym, have a lot of muscle on them, but are flabby, especially around the middle. Not a good look. Having great dietary habits, but not putting in the work at the gym also isn't a good look, especially if your genetics aren't that great.

[Moma]

Merenguero and Rudebwoy smacked the nail on the head as usual. They say the body is built in the kitchen. As said, a lot of these guys who claim they work out, I'd like to see a full workout log and dietary sheet. I believe I was stating I was suffering from a gut situation earlier this year and Gio asked me for a dietary sheet. That's the most practical way to look at it.

I used to work out with a guy in London who was a 'hard gainer'. He went to the gym diligently and another of my friends scoffed and said it was impossible for this guy to gain muscle. One day, my workout sessions and that of the hard gainer coincided with each other. I watched his workout and it was very sterilised, he never really went hard at anything. He was doing a chest workout and I offered to have him join us on the bench and I would spot for him. He shrieked in terror and refused to max out and have me help him up. This explained to me why his body remained the same and has continued to remain the same. I saw a picture of him recently (10 years later) and although he works in a gym, his body is even worse now.

My point is, just because someone says they go gym, it doesn't mean anything. Same way, some guys go to the club every week but they spend all night in the corner, ogling and helping the walls to stay upright. You always have outliers with unusual genetic disorders but by and large, 90 something percent of the time it's just a lack of correct application.

[birthday cat]

A lot of great comments in this thread.

I think there are 2 primary reasons why lifting is so popular on this forum.

The first reason is obvious. The second reason is not as obvious and understanding that reason could change some opinions in the “weightlifting isn’t such a big deal especially if I live in Europe” crowd.

(1) Girls are more attracted to men with muscles especially at a lower body fat percentage.

I don’t want argue about what girls find more attractive – the 175 pound guy at 9.274% body fat or the 200 pound guy at 13.827% body fat – because girls find both of those guys (who lift) to be more attractive than a fat guy or a tiny guy who looks like he might fall down when the wind blows.

(2) The bigger picture.

Some people view lifting as nothing more than bros going to the gym and moving some weights around.

However, others view lifting as something bigger. I won’t quote everything but consider what is said in Post 107 by Giovonny, Post 114 by The Lizard of Oz, and Post 120 by Moma. Put all those comments together and lifting isn’t just bros going to the gym anymore. It is more like the first step to a lifestyle that includes:
1 - Lifting correctly at the correct intensity
2 - Quality nutrition
3 - Quality sleep
4 - Low stress levels
5 - Taking a disciplined and systematic approach to learning and improving at a skill and other health habits.

Put those 5 together or even just 3 or 4 or them and do it consistently for a long period of time. That might not be a panacea for attraction problems but it will make a drastic difference. Girls will find a guy with that lifestyle to be more attractive because he has a better body, leaner face, clearer skin, and better posture.

Put those 5 together and you will have a panacea for a lot of other problems that both men and women in western culture face. Some of the things that will probably occur when someone changes to a lifestyle that facilitates increases in strength and muscle mass:
-more energy & motivation
-fewer illnesses
-higher testosterone levels
-higher confidence
-better sexual performance
-improved physical structure and functionality of many body parts – heart, lungs, muscles, bones, skin, etc.
-improved mood & mental health
-improved focus & mental clarity
-improved intelligence

Some people might not initially agree with the last few items on that list that deal with mental health and performance but those can be backed up by real science and the personal experiences of many of the guys on this forum.

The brain is a physical structure in the body just like organs, muscles, and bones. The brain responds to high intensity exercise and other health habits just like those other body parts. The brain’s physical structure can and does change just like all those other body parts.

So lifting and the habits that support lifting don’t only improve physical appearance but they also improve several cognitive abilities associated with game and help solve several problems that exist for many people in western culture.

Lifting isn’t the only option for most of what is mentioned in "(2) The bigger picture". Any other high intensity physical activity could replace lifting in that list of 5 and results will be similar for everything except gaining muscle mass. A few examples of activities that can be trained at a high intensity are running sprints, swimming sprints, calisthenics, yoga, martial arts and rock climbing.

Lifting is probably the most popular type of high intensity workout because it is easily accessible, can provide workouts at a very high level of intensity, and increases muscle mass.

[StrikeBack]

Quote:

(1) Girls are more attracted to men with muscles especially at a lower body fat percentage.

I don’t want argue about what girls find more attractive – the 175 pound guy at 9.274% body fat or the 200 pound guy at 13.827% body fat – because girls find both of those guys (who lift) to be more attractive than a fat guy or a tiny guy who looks like he might fall down when the wind blows.

Larger men can have a higher BF%, what's low BF for them is different to that of smaller men.

[roid]

gonna leave these here for OP

https://instagram.com/jonskywalker/?hl=en

[cascadecombo]

(11-09-2015 07:30 PM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

Quote:

(1) Girls are more attracted to men with muscles especially at a lower body fat percentage.

I don’t want argue about what girls find more attractive – the 175 pound guy at 9.274% body fat or the 200 pound guy at 13.827% body fat – because girls find both of those guys (who lift) to be more attractive than a fat guy or a tiny guy who looks like he might fall down when the wind blows.

Larger men can have a higher BF%, what's low BF for them is different to that of smaller men.

I'm going to have to say that I may be completely wrong on this, but body fat percentage is the same in essence. So a larger man, assuming you are talking height will basically look the same as a smaller guy due to the fact that it's the percentage of their body that is comprised of fat.

[Rush87]

(11-10-2015 02:45 AM)cascadecombo Wrote:  

(11-09-2015 07:30 PM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

Quote:

(1) Girls are more attracted to men with muscles especially at a lower body fat percentage.

I don’t want argue about what girls find more attractive – the 175 pound guy at 9.274% body fat or the 200 pound guy at 13.827% body fat – because girls find both of those guys (who lift) to be more attractive than a fat guy or a tiny guy who looks like he might fall down when the wind blows.

Larger men can have a higher BF%, what's low BF for them is different to that of smaller men.

I'm going to have to say that I may be completely wrong on this, but body fat percentage is the same in essence. So a larger man, assuming you are talking height will basically look the same as a smaller guy due to the fact that it's the percentage of their body that is comprised of fat.

Essentially the guy on the left could be 14% and still look more 'ripped' than the guy on the right. It comes down to distribution of fat relative to your muscle mass.

Hypothetically:

Male One: Six foot, 220lb, 15% body fat = 33lb of fat and 187lb fat free mass.
Male Two: Six foot, 160lb, 15% body fat = 24lb of fat and 136lb fat free mass.

As you can see there is only 9lb of fat separating both males. On the other hand there is 51lb of muscle difference. This affords the male with higher muscle levels to appear better at a higher body fat percentage.