[XPQ21]

So to get my feet wet back in the dating game, I've been doing the online thing for several months. I get a decent amount of interest (maybe 40 views a week) on OKC, and have gotten a couple lays from that, along with several chicks who were definitely interested that flaked after the first date, quite likely due to my newbie game.

I'd like to gain more experience doing the daygame thing, as OKC hasn't been as great now that the summer's over. I've been trying to make some approaches over the past couple months, but in my area I've been finding it extremely difficult - I've gotten maybe 3 numbers over the past two months and none of them went anywhere (no reply to initial text or flake on date).

I live in the suburbs of a major Northeastern city (not NYC). I've been attempting some coffeeshop stuff during the day when I have time, and have looked over some of the threads/texts here on the site. I'm in my mid 30s and I'd say my target demographic is the 25-35 range.

The women who show up into the local Starbucks around here during the day are almost entirely white, and tend to fall into these categories:

a) College girls well under the age of 25. I have extremely little luck approaching these girls. Deeply embedded in their phones, for the most part they almost seem autistic to me. Even though I've been told I look young for my age, I get the sense they consider me a friendly dad type at best. And they almost never spend any time in the shop alone - they usually run in packs of at least two or more.

b) Women who appear to be between the ages of 25-35, but who are with a dude, or have a ring, or have kids in tow. 'Nuff said. The majority of women in that age range out here in the 'burbs fall into this category.

c) Women who appear to be between the ages of 25-35, in groups.

c) Women who come into the store, grab their stuff, and bounce out ASAP. Probably only 20% of the chicks I see come into the store spend any significant time inside.

d) Women by themselves who appear to be in the target age range. Often have headphones in their ears, and even when not, bitch shields are up a mile high.

I think the main issue is that in the suburbs, the majority of women who are not college-aged are going to be settled down/married with kids and not approachable.

And I feel the disconnect between myself and women under the age of 25 is too great to overcome. I almost don't find some of them attractive because they seem too much like children - particularly when they talk.

I'm stuck out here for at least another couple of months, then I'm hoping to move. Any suggestions for the meantime? Change of venue? Change of strategy? My style seems to be good enough in pictures online to get a decent amount of attention - anything that could be turning people off in person that I should check?

[evilbuttmunch]

I must not be a very good looking guy because I live in the suburbs of NY and I only get about 1 to 2 likes and 8 views a week on OkC and the women are all pretty gross. I've gone out with four women in the 5/6 range in the past year, and out of those three of them initiated. Most of the women who send me likes are 3s and 4s. I was really depressed about it at first and it was an insane sap to my confidence. It's better now, but I'm 31 and I still send out custom tailored messages to 30 yo 5s that I have a ton in common with and the vast majority of them ignore me.

Are you sending messages to women in general or mainly to women who view or like you? Because while I've certainly had dates with attractive women on that site, everyone was a mess in some way and I've never gotten anywhere close to sex. Meanwhile, I joined Match in frustration with a nearly identical profile and was chatting up 4 women at the same time, half of whom initiated with me first, all 6s and 7s. But that's starting to dry up and I have to initiate now as I've gotten 900 views in the past 3 months. I think it really does have to do with the season as well, but online dating just sucks in general, with OkC being at the bottom.

Sorry that this was somewhat off topic. I think you're just going to have to pick a different place. Try the coffee shop at the bookstore instead, but you might just be out of the age range. Like I said, I'm 31 and I agree with you. I can't picture hitting on a girl in the coffee shop. They're too young for me and I can't relate to them. You might just have to go to the mall or flirt with random women in your daily life, like at the grocery store. I dropped bait and ran GALNUC on the girl who worked at the car rental agency and she was a solid 8, mid 20s, tight blonde with huge natural breasts, but every day surrounded by boring and unattractive coworkers and she went to a tech school so she knew the value I brought with my career. I'm pretty sure I could have gotten her number but I lacked inner game and pussied out at the last minute. It's just random occurrences. You see any woman in your age range that you're attracted to, and make it your policy to approach her. Like I've gone on online dates with women I thought I'd have nothing in common with and it turned out we were the best match I've ever had in my life. It can and does happen. And if you talk to anyone and everyone that you think is "interesting" then it won't feel as awkward only talking to the attractive women you find "interesting."

[XPQ21]

(10-26-2015 01:41 AM)evilbuttmunch Wrote:  

I must not be a very good looking guy because I live in the suburbs of NY and I only get about 1 to 2 likes and 8 views a week on OkC and the women are all pretty gross. I've gone out with four women in the 5/6 range in the past year, and out of those three of them initiated. Most of the women who send me likes are 3s and 4s. I was really depressed about it at first and it was an insane sap to my confidence. It's better now, but I'm 31 and I still send out custom tailored messages to 30 yo 5s that I have a ton in common with and the vast majority of them ignore me.

I found that indeed, picture quality makes a big difference. I was only getting around 10 views a week on my profile at the beginning of the summer when I didn't have many pics up. I got some better shots taken (including a full body shot doing something 'interesting' - women are scared of the SIF as well I think) and saw my numbers jump - but yeah the majority of women who "like" me are much older than I'm interested and not very attractive so I'm in the same boat there.

And even though I have a bunch of good pics, there was a woman hitting me up the other day who kept nagging me about wanting more pictures until I finally gave up and told her to get lost. Conversely, the women who I've had the most success with (i.e. lays) are the ones who didn't put a whole lot of effort into their pictures - you could tell they were cute and weren't obese, but otherwise their main photo was usually just a cheap cellphone shot.

The chicks who have a main photo that looks like they're trying to be on an album or magazine cover, where you can tell they've had ten thousand pro shots taken and grabbed the best ones and edited them and applied effects, etc. are the ones you definitely want to avoid - these god-tier attention whores will never go on a date with you, and even if by some miracle they do, you'll likely never get a second.

I actually find I have less success with women who I have a ton in common with. I've seen quite a few 99% matches on the site and messaged all of them and I don't think I've ever gotten a reply. Similarly, I work in a scientific field, and there are many women on the site in my area who do as well, but I've never had any luck with those queen of the nerds types; I'm guessing if I were in some local emo band I'd do better with them!

I honestly have the most luck getting responses with women in the 70-80% match range it seems. The last woman I went out with worked in fashion and if all goes well I'll be seeing her again later this week. While women say they want a guy who shares their interests, I think at some level they're actually more attracted to men who come from outside their realm of experience - a guy whose "frame" is radically different from theirs.

Quote:

Are you sending messages to women in general or mainly to women who view or like you? Because while I've certainly had dates with attractive women on that site, everyone was a mess in some way and I've never gotten anywhere close to sex. Meanwhile, I joined Match in frustration with a nearly identical profile and was chatting up 4 women at the same time, half of whom initiated with me first, all 6s and 7s. But that's starting to dry up and I have to initiate now as I've gotten 900 views in the past 3 months. I think it really does have to do with the season as well, but online dating just sucks in general, with OkC being at the bottom.

I send messages to women who view me, I send messages to women who "like" me, I swipe through quickmatch, I play around with distance and city settings for the major metros near me and age ranges, sometimes I just scroll down the "browse" window and fire off a message to every other girl.

Meeting someone who actually wanted to have sex was an uphill struggle even so, you got it. As I mentioned in another thread it took me around 150 openers and several months of work to find the first chick who I really hit it off with. And some people think that's a low number.

So my general advice for online is: match percentage that's not high or low, do your best to resist attention-whore model pic profiles, and don't try to build attraction or "bond" over common interests, because it's sort of a waste of time.

Quote:

Sorry that this was somewhat off topic. I think you're just going to have to pick a different place. Try the coffee shop at the bookstore instead, but you might just be out of the age range. Like I said, I'm 31 and I agree with you. I can't picture hitting on a girl in the coffee shop. They're too young for me and I can't relate to them. You might just have to go to the mall or flirt with random women in your daily life, like at the grocery store. I dropped bait and ran GALNUC on the girl who worked at the car rental agency and she was a solid 8, mid 20s, tight blonde with huge natural breasts, but every day surrounded by boring and unattractive coworkers and she went to a tech school so she knew the value I brought with my career. I'm pretty sure I could have gotten her number but I lacked inner game and pussied out at the last minute. It's just random occurrences. You see any woman in your age range that you're attracted to, and make it your policy to approach her. Like I've gone on online dates with women I thought I'd have nothing in common with and it turned out we were the best match I've ever had in my life. It can and does happen. And if you talk to anyone and everyone that you think is "interesting" then it won't feel as awkward only talking to the attractive women you find "interesting."

To paraphase Roosh about the suburban area I'm in - it's filled with people who think they're cool because...I don't know what reason.

The irony is that at the local joint I go to the only women in their 20s who have really warmed up to me are...a couple of the baristas who work there. Probably because I'm relaxed and don't make a big fuss about the quality of my drink or how fast they serve it like most people around here do, and I've cracked a few jokes with them in private about what tools most of their customers are.

The loud one always smiles at me when I come in and has started giving me shit tests.."Oh you again, huh? Decided to make drinking coffee your job?"

I already hit the quiet one up to go out with me after her shift and while she seemed to briefly consider it, she equivocated pretty hard and I took it as a no and didn't push things. I may try my luck with the loud one, but after that I'm done. I like the place as it's relaxed and close to me, and I don't realy want to be known that I'm the creepy regular trying to hit up all the employees.

Grocery stores around here during the day are sort of the same problem magnified - mostly married chicks or chicks with kids.

I think, unfortunately, that I'm going to have to bite the bullet and at least for the moment start driving closer to or into the city. It just sucks burning gas and spending time doing it.

[yeppels]

I live in a suburb in the South and I completely understand your predicament. I feel like daygaming in coffee shops/malls/bookstores in suburbs is a waste of time because of the things you describe.

The best word I can come up with to describe the average woman you'll meet at one of these locations is 'lame'. Maybe it's the suburban mentality, since it's so comfortable to live here, you just kind of live without caring too much and have a don't give a fuck attitude... about everything.

So naturally you have to go out of your way to find people who are less lame. Do fun and engaging activities like rock climbing, martial arts classes, yoga etc. Things that involve effort and hard work. Then make friends at those places. The people in suburbs who are still trying to improve themselves are the friends you want to have, be it men or women. These kinds of people not only motivate you to push yourself, but also tend to have more interesting and attractive friends.

Biting the bullet and driving far to the more urban area is a pain, but sometimes you just have to do it to break out of the comfort mentality, even if it presents sometimes unsurmountable logistics issues.

[XPQ21]

(10-26-2015 12:13 PM)yeppels Wrote:  

I live in a suburb in the South and I completely understand your predicament. I feel like daygaming in coffee shops/malls/bookstores in suburbs is a waste of time because of the things you describe.

The best word I can come up with to describe the average woman you'll meet at one of these locations is 'lame'. Maybe it's the suburban mentality, since it's so comfortable to live here, you just kind of live without caring too much and have a don't give a fuck attitude... about everything.

White women in their mid to late 20s that are single are in the minority, and even then it's communications majors, yoga pants, North Face jackets, and bitchy resting face as far as the eye can see. I wouldn't mind banging one of these girls, but they're definitely not the type I have the most luck with.

And the suburbs doesn't seem to lead to being very socially adept - there were a couple of this type in the past month or two that were giving me what felt like obvious IOIs in the supermarket/mall (standing close, holding eye contact, smiling, hair flipping etc.) but then they either a) don't know how to make themselves available for me to make an approach or b) completely fall apart when I actually make the approach, and just smile and nod and don't give me anything to work with.

The few Latina women I've interacted in this area, on the other hand, are awesome and extremely friendly by comparison. At least they can hold down their end of a conversation. There just aren't enough to be a statistically significant fraction of the women I encounter on a daily basis.

I think Roosh mentioned that the worst part about being in American coffee shops is having to listen to people talk, and he's pretty much right. There was one woman in her late 20s in the coffee shop the other day who was pretty good looking, but had the worst voice I had ever heard. It alternated between that kind of low "vocal fry" Daria Morgendorffer thing, and an awful nasal uptalking voice where every sentence sounds like a whiny question.

"I'd like a pumpkin spiceeee laatteeee?" "Ohhhh thaaaaanks?"

The male clientele under 40 isn't much better, a blend of fratbros, guidos in tracksuits and sneakers, and metrosexuals with square glasses, perfectly trimmed beards, and permed hair.

I was in the shop this morning and it was a total bust - almost every attractive woman who came in had a kid in tow (who they let run around screaming and climbing over people) and otherwise just older people and dudes.

I was there for about 2.5 hours and only 2 women came in who might have been approachable - one of them sat right next to me, and I was psyching myself up to approach when a hipster guy grabbed his coffee and sat right across from us. He was obviously interested in her as well, but kept looking up from his drink and creepily staring at her every 20 seconds, as if he expected her to do something.

You could tell the dude was making her uncomfortable and she soon grabbed her laptop and got up and left, and he took off about two minutes later. Ugh, I just wanted to slap him.

I think one of the main problems with a place like this is that at the times women are in the shop, it's neither quiet enough that there's nobody around to listen to you, nor crowded enough (like a club) that a conversation you have with a stranger is going to blend into the background. There are just enough people there so that there are going to be at least four people sitting there working or reading listening to every line you spit, and for the most part I don't think either I or the women I would want to talk with are comfortable with that.

Anyway, thanks for letting me rant and confirming that a change of venue is likely in order...

[yeppels]

(10-26-2015 02:16 PM)XPQ21 Wrote:  

I was there for about 2.5 hours and only 2 women came in who might have been approachable - one of them sat right next to me, and I was psyching myself up to approach when a hipster guy grabbed his coffee and sat right across from us. He was obviously interested in her as well, but kept looking up from his drink and creepily staring at her every 20 seconds, as if he expected her to do something.

You could tell the dude was making her uncomfortable and she soon grabbed her laptop and got up and left, and he took off about two minutes later. Ugh, I just wanted to slap him.

This was the perfect opportunity. If you could sense her discomfort with the other guy, it makes it that much easier to go and talk to her. Remember you are the kind of man that this woman wants to be rescued by from this awkward situation.

(10-26-2015 02:16 PM)XPQ21 Wrote:  

I think one of the main problems with a place like this is that at the times women are in the shop, it's neither quiet enough that there's nobody around to listen to you, nor crowded enough (like a club) that a conversation you have with a stranger is going to blend into the background. There are just enough people there so that there are going to be at least four people sitting there working or reading listening to every line you spit, and for the most part I don't think either I or the women I would want to talk with are comfortable with that.

This depends on what kind of person you are. Sometimes I'm feeling extremely social and will go strike up a conversation with anyone anywhere regardless of others in the vicinity. Sometimes I have no desire to talk to anyone. You know your situation better than any of us, but the worst that could happen is an awkward silence happens too quickly, at which point say a joke (you prepared beforehand) about coffee, tell her to enjoy hers, and leave.

I think the fear of awkwardness is the scariest part about daygame. If you can learn to overcome the fear, either by giving no fucks or by just being unable to be awkward, then this will be much easier! Both are abilities you can learn.

[The Black Knight]

The suburbs suck ass for day game.

A few ideas:

1. Find the hot spot grocery store. Whole Foods often is it but sometimes it can be another place. Go there during peak shopping hours (4ish to 6ish) for most available targets. Knock out your groceries and hit on a few women. Look for eye contact and roll with him. Watch out for the lingering BF with the cart down the aisle or around the corner.

2. Local community college. Mostly young chicks but you will find some older broads floating around there. Employees/staff are fair game too (I pulled a employee number a few weeks ago). Some CC chicks are just young working class chicks looking for an escape from their parents. If you got logistics, you can close these (at times) relatively humble sluts. I'd have some semi-plausible bullshit story ready to go about a class you want to take and how you want to sit in a session before signing up or another reason why you are there.

3. Town centers during lunch and around 4-6 can be OK sometimes. You can swing into any bars in the town center real quick for happy hour sluts. I had malls down originally but malls suck ass from my experience. Town centers seem to have more singles and chicks rolling solo.

Ultimately, I wouldn't stress over it. It's a shit environment to work with with. You really need to find some activities and social circles to make suburb game work.

One other thing: Gym clothes (showing skin) or very stylish clothes (custom suit, for instance) at all venues. You need to stand out in these spots since sluts are gonna have nothing to go on but your appearance at first and it helps with the approach obviously if you are getting solid eye contact going in. I lean towards gym clothes if you got a decent body.

[XPQ21]

(10-27-2015 03:52 AM)The Black Knight Wrote:  

The suburbs suck ass for day game.

A few ideas:

1. Find the hot spot grocery store. Whole Foods often is it but sometimes it can be another place. Go there during peak shopping hours (4ish to 6ish) for most available targets. Knock out your groceries and hit on a few women. Look for eye contact and roll with him. Watch out for the lingering BF with the cart down the aisle or around the corner.

2. Local community college. Mostly young chicks but you will find some older broads floating around there. Employees/staff are fair game too (I pulled a employee number a few weeks ago). Some CC chicks are just young working class chicks looking for an escape from their parents. If you got logistics, you can close these (at times) relatively humble sluts. I'd have some semi-plausible bullshit story ready to go about a class you want to take and how you want to sit in a session before signing up or another reason why you are there.

3. Town centers during lunch and around 4-6 can be OK sometimes. You can swing into any bars in the town center real quick for happy hour sluts. I had malls down originally but malls suck ass from my experience. Town centers seem to have more singles and chicks rolling solo.

Ultimately, I wouldn't stress over it. It's a shit environment to work with with. You really need to find some activities and social circles to make suburb game work.

One other thing: Gym clothes (showing skin) or very stylish clothes (custom suit, for instance) at all venues. You need to stand out in these spots since sluts are gonna have nothing to go on but your appearance at first and it helps with the approach obviously if you are getting solid eye contact going in. I lean towards gym clothes if you got a decent body.

Thanks, all good ideas. It's funny you mention Whole Foods, as there's an outdoor mall nearby that has one, and I was scouting out the area the other day. There's also a bunch of restaurants, a Sephora, Apple Store, and some other girl hotspots. It seems like the least shitty of the shitty daygame options around here.

Many more single-looking women in Whole Foods than in rando coffee shops, but bitch shields seem even higher than in the shops if that were possible. I made some very gentle approaches to a couple women in the place the other night and they looked at me as if they were watching the Challenger disaster.

I don't think it's because they think I'm hideous, as I pull OK online and in what little nightgame I do, but just that they mostly have absolutely zero experience and/or desire to interact with a male stranger in that context. They've been plugged in so long that someone daring to try to have them interact on his terms instead of always on theirs comes as a complete shock.

As someone said, the suburbs tend to cultivate don't-give-a-fuck attitude in young women. The world outside them might as well not exist, and I kind of don't blame them because the endless tracts of subdivisions and strip malls really can be depressing. It will be an uphill struggle for sure, but at least the selection pool is certainly larger.

The lurking boyfriend is a perennial problem that I have learned to scout for, and it almost always seems to be a hot girl with a very herby looking dude. Where are these guys hooking up with these girls?t Social circle, I guess? I sometimes can tell by the look on their face that they're probably dealing with enormous daily drama...

I'm in pretty good shape and wear clothes well, but I don't currently go to the gym - I lift at home and jog. I'm in my mid 30s and I've let myself go a bit the past month and need to shape it up - at my age you really have to keep with an exercise routine or it starts showing fast.

I know everyone does it but I feel awkward going to the supermarket in gym clothes, and I'd feel out-of-place in a suit as well. Mostly I've been doing the close-fitting mock turtleneck + dark jeans + nice shoes thing. Kind of like this (but with more hair):



Very few masculine guys in a Whole Foods, haha. Most seem to look like this:

[Hygiene]

Have you considered night game? Even in the more retail areas there can be a decent bar scene.

[XPQ21]

(10-27-2015 06:23 PM)Hygiene Wrote:  

Have you considered night game? Even in the more retail areas there can be a decent bar scene.

The problem is, for various reasons (unrelated to addiction/legal stuff) I am unable to consume much alcohol. And I've found bars in the evening to be almost entirely intolerable while sober.

[Mess O.]

Every time I go into either Whole Foods, Trader Joe's, or Pavillions, I rustle up at least an approach or two. Every time.