[Courage Reborn]

Congrats Vicious. Hope you'll keep us updated on what fatherhood is like. There's not many firsthand accounts of it from guys who've been in the game as long as you.


Regarding mother selection; these days I'm thinking the ideal target is probably a 7, rather than 8-9.

Why choose a 7?
A life of character validation beyond just her looks
Less hand in the relationship
More submissive
Less mate guarding needed
More difficult for her to replace you (higher SMV)
When the wall hits, it won't be as big of a life change for her to adapt

After enough years together, sex is gonna get stale, regardless if she was a 7 or a 9 back when she was in her 20's. By the time she's a middleaged woman, better to be left with good character & favorable relationship dynamics than a chick who simply used to be really hot.

[Laner]

(10-05-2015 04:43 PM)Courage Reborn Wrote:  

Congrats Vicious. Hope you'll keep us updated on what fatherhood is like. There's not many firsthand accounts of it from guys who've been in the game as long as you.


Regarding mother selection; these days I'm thinking the ideal target is probably a 7, rather than 8-9.

Why choose a 7?
A life of character validation beyond just her looks
Less hand in the relationship
More submissive
Less mate guarding needed
More difficult for her to replace you (higher SMV)
When the wall hits, it won't be as big of a life change for her to adapt

After enough years together, sex is gonna get stale, regardless if she was a 7 or a 9 back when she was in her 20's. By the time she's a middleaged woman, better to be left with good character & favorable relationship dynamics than a chick who simply used to be really hot.

This might be one of the less talked about sides of having a family among men who enjoy slaying pussy. Most men who do well with women are even more knowledgeable to female nature, and especially that of a beautiful woman.

The temperament of a woman who falls just under the radar of being considered 'beautiful' is in the hidden pocket between self inflated 6-7 range and the highly admired 8-10 range. Instead they are pretty enough to be allowed around other better looking women, get some privilege etc but still have to work for what they want.

The mother of your children will change in your eyes after childbirth no matter what. Yes, you will still find her attractive and will still very much enjoy sex with her, but she will not have the same unattached freedom that you might remember from before the kids. Also if you have a mistress or girlfriend on the side the type of sex you will crave will contrast even more than the sex you have with your partner. I for one have little desire to choke my woman out while ramming my cock down her throat but I still very much enjoy doing this with other women.

At the end of the day having an amazing son to come home to, delicious home cooked food waiting, an attentive and loving woman to talk with, and an attractive enough mate that I get wood watching her shower are probably 99% of the reason men have been getting married in the first place. But take away the kid from the picture, and the whole thing falls apart.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

I am in my early 40s and still reply in jest to my family that I am young for a man and have time.

But I did find a good girl in Poland who is motherhood material, has a low notch count (1 before me and he was no Alpha by far), is into threesomes (so far escorts and one extra) and accepts the fact that I told her that I intend to fuck other girls for the next years to come.


That's her.

Frankly I could wait even longer to have kids, but I sense that it's a good time next year. My deep intuition tells me that she has the right genetics - raw intelligence (also check out her family - IQ deviates a bit - girl may be 115, but brother 140), height, sweet personality, loving mother material - so yeah why not?

I am not concerned about divorce, child support or something like that.
First her personality is so incredibly pure that I know that even if we split, then she would want me to be a full father.
I know that I can be a good father, because I see how my nephews look up to me.
For foreigners who have a location independent income like Roosh or me - having a child in Eastern European countries is not really a financial risk. The divorce laws here are a joke unless your income is local and fully disclosed. Besides - some women just want to have an amount that you can afford as a man yourself. Divorce rape here is rather a circumstance of men who have little money in the first place.

I also told her that I would not marry her and would sometimes be gone for weeks, because I like to travel alone occasionally - also I sometimes want to be gone for the weekends - also alone. She is fine with it.

Personally I don't think that she will leave me, unless I overdo it massively by fucking way too many girls (that she does not know about or is not part of during a threesome). Also I told her that I am not concerned about her leaving me - then I would find a younger prettier girl and be happy as a fish. That is also the truth.

The problem I have with impregnating random girls is that I sense that I have responsibility for that child. He will wonder who his father is and this is something that holds me back from impregnating random girls, though I have had a couple close calls and I am only childless due to the fact that the girls were very young and aborted the children (regretfully - their regrets - my joy). I've also had some who asked me to come inside - women from age 26 on tend to ask that if they think the genetics and financial situation of the man seem fine. Of course I never obliged those girls. I also know older Alphas who spread their genes so to say leaving 7 children with 6 different women all across Europe. Most of their children resented them for it. Some things cannot be re-captured - you cannot be the father to your young child if you have missed those years.

So having a child is in my opinion a grave responsibility to the child itself. I could have of course dozens, but that's tantamount to having 100 dogs - you can never spend enough time with those dogs to have any meaningful connection. I might knock up some woman in a decade or so, but who knows - I may not. Having 2 kids, sort of a wife, one weekly TagTheSponsor escort for a threesome and the occasional conquest via Game during travels - that's sufficient to me for now.

Though I have breached the subject to my girl of opening a porn company and organizing a Japanese orgy and a Redhead orgy with me as the main lead (and maybe a few select friends when there are too many girls). My girl balks a bit at that, but I think that I can convince her to let me have my hobbies.

So frankly - selection of the potential mother is key - also the location of the impregnation. The terrain forms the woman as women adapt mentally to the local circumstances. That same girl growing up in the US, Switzerland or Iceland would be a completely different story - I know that.

Frankly as Red Pill guys with Game we are probably the best-suited men in the world to become fathers. If you add intuition and some ability to read personalities, then we are almost playing a different game than all the other guys out there. Of course it can always go wrong and you have to remain detached, but if you don't pick some crazy BPD chick, then it will turn out ok (so long as you can afford children).

[The Lizard of Oz]

Zel you are insane and your plans are amazing. I loved this post.

(10-05-2015 07:53 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

Having 2 kids, sort of a wife, one weekly TagTheSponsor escort for a threesome and the occasional conquest via Game during travels - that's sufficient to me for now.

Though I have breached the subject to my girl of opening a porn company and organizing a Japanese orgy and a Redhead orgy with me as the main lead (and maybe a few select friends when there are too many girls). My girl balks a bit at that, but I think that I can convince her to let me have my hobbies.

When a man requires both a Japanese orgy AND a redhead orgy as the barest minimum to get started -- that is when you know that someone has balls and is thinking straight. F'ing A!

Nice tan lines on the girl.

[Grodin]

I have 3 kids, got started young because I always wanted to be a father. Married when I was 21 and a freshman in college. Divorced by age 28 after the three births.

Went through a custody battle during my divorce and ended up with 50/50. Over the years since then the custody picture has changed various ways and I now have full custody.

There have been some drawbacks to my bachelor lifestyle and to my career, but all in all I am happy with the decision to start young. It's not right to judge decisions after the fact, based on outcome, while I'm not entirely pleased with my outcome I still think I made the right decision for the time.

Some time I'll try to write a better post on fatherhood than this one.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(10-05-2015 08:16 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

Zel you are insane and your plans are amazing. I loved this post.

....
When a man requires both a Japanese orgy AND a redhead orgy as the barest minimum to get started -- that is when you know that someone has balls and is thinking straight. F'ing A!

Nice tan lines on the girl.

Thanks - a man has got to have his bucket list. Problem is that I hate to pay for sex, so doing it in the context of never publicly aired porn might let me have the orgy experience with girls who have a strong sexual drive anyway (many porn starlets do and they actually enjoy sex in their initial shoots).

Fast forward to 04:00:

(They changed the voices in this youtube clip due to copyright claims.)

"A crotch-less Uncle Sam costume and a stadium filled back to back with beautiful redheads" - heh - Rick and Morty is the most Red Pill show out there.

[Lizard King]

The experience you have as a father is strongly dependent on the woman you pick.

I would advise you to meet the woman's family. It will clue you on to how she will age and how she will be as a parent. It will also alert you to any red flags such as mental illness.

Try to know the woman for over a year, ideally two, so that you have a deep understanding of her personality etc.

Always be in control. That goes without saying, but can sometimes be overlooked.

There is much more I could add but I'm at work, and TravelerKai would offer more comprehensive advice on picking a prospective mother.

[MrLemon]

(10-05-2015 04:43 PM)Courage Reborn Wrote:  

Regarding mother selection; these days I'm thinking the ideal target is probably a 7, rather than 8-9.

Why choose a 7?
A life of character validation beyond just her looks
Less hand in the relationship
More submissive
Less mate guarding needed
More difficult for her to replace you (higher SMV)
When the wall hits, it won't be as big of a life change for her to adapt

After enough years together, sex is gonna get stale, regardless if she was a 7 or a 9 back when she was in her 20's. By the time she's a middleaged woman, better to be left with good character & favorable relationship dynamics than a chick who simply used to be really hot.

Great points. All women fall back to a 7 as they age anyway.

By far the biggest issue you face is not her looks. The biggest issue is, will she go fucking crazy after a few years of raising kids, a few setbacks, a lost job? Will she bail when the going gets tough, so the kids end up emotionally destroyed?

Life is hard. Married life is really hard. She needs to BELIEVE in the sanctity of family about all else. If you end up dead from a heart attack...and plenty of guys do...is she going to fight like hell to raise your kids, and protect them from the swarms of government parasites who will want to fuck them over?

[TheBadGuy]

I have thought about this issue of having children very much throughout my life. I waiver, but at this point do not plan on having kids. IF I were to do it though, I have thought long and hard about this. Thus far, nobody I have told this idea too has thought it good or feasible, but I still think it could work. The basic premise is this: You get 3 men (friends) to live together and plan to live together for an extended period of time. Each man can have 1 biological child with a surrogate and the 3 men raise the children all as their own. This way you can have children, no women involved, and only have to truly be 2/3 of a parent (since 3 men live together). No man can get married. All continue to live like bachelors. Have to live together at least until kids leave the house. The thing is this would probably only work with longtime friends who you know inside and out, as everyone has to commit to it. Some may think this idea is terrible, though it is the best alternative I have found to marriage which will give the kid a stable household.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(10-06-2015 10:19 PM)TheBadGuy Wrote:  

I have thought about this issue of having children very much throughout my life. I waiver, but at this point do not plan on having kids. IF I were to do it though, I have thought long and hard about this. Thus far, nobody I have told this idea too has thought it good or feasible, but I still think it could work. The basic premise is this: You get 3 men (friends) to live together and plan to live together for an extended period of time. Each man can have 1 biological child with a surrogate and the 3 men raise the children all as their own. This way you can have children, no women involved, and only have to truly be 2/3 of a parent (since 3 men live together). No man can get married. All continue to live like bachelors. Have to live together at least until kids leave the house. The thing is this would probably only work with longtime friends who you know inside and out, as everyone has to commit to it. Some may think this idea is terrible, though it is the best alternative I have found to marriage which will give the kid a stable household.

Jeez - who would want that kind of MGTOW fantasy? I have heard that Sandman wants to have a surrogate.

There are plenty of women out there you can pick and choose to have your child. What a lonely and sad existence it is to have a surrogate baby and then raise it yourself. While single fathers do a better job than single mothers according to studies I don't think that this is ideal at all.

[samsamsam]

(10-05-2015 07:53 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

Having 2 kids, sort of a wife, one weekly TagTheSponsor escort for a threesome and the occasional conquest via Game during travels - that's sufficient to me for now.

Though I have breached the subject to my girl of opening a porn company and organizing a Japanese orgy and a Redhead orgy with me as the main lead (and maybe a few select friends when there are too many girls). My girl balks a bit at that, but I think that I can convince her to let me have my hobbies.

Hey Zel, I'm one of of those select friends? Right?

Great post.

[makaveli]

I'm 22 and I have a one year old girl (14-15 months). paying child support is nothing i'm worried about. I have my daughter at my place 3 times a week for 3-5 hours. Good friends with the mother most of the time.. My daughter is very sensitive due to being born 2 months prematurely, so for now It's cool with me until she is completely ready to stay at my place for days at a time. The mother is on government welfare, which I think is very good for now, so my daughter doesn't have to go to day care. I myself was sent to daycare at 6 months old, and I think that is just completely insane to send a 6 months old away from it's mother. I'm still biting nails, I can't help but think that some of my obsessions and anxieties stems from that early seperation. I had a good childhood, good loving parents and a nuclear family.
If my daughter stays at home with her mother until she's 2 that's fine with me.
As little contact with the institutional system as possible.

I take my daughter to my parents once a week, so it's a great joy for my family too.

For me there is no greater joy than when my daughter smiles in the whole face when she sees me, or when she is laughing or just seeking a hug to feel safe and secure in my arms. That is absolutely great.

The "negatives" of being a dad in my opinion is the anxiety.. I was worried when she was born prematurely, worried the times she was sick, sometimes even worried when she is driving with her mom, worried about the future, and the world she is going to live in.
Never had those anxieties before. Well I'm not used to feel so vulnerable, but it's all right and I'm just getting used to it.

I'll impregnate a woman again even now if I find one where I have the urge to not use a condom and just blast inside her. I've had the urge to be a father since I was a kid. Always wanted to have children.

[Laner]

(10-07-2015 12:43 PM)makaveli Wrote:  

The "negatives" of being a dad in my opinion is the anxiety.. I was worried when she was born prematurely, worried the times she was sick, sometimes even worried when she is driving with her mom, worried about the future, and the world she is going to live in.
Never had those anxieties before. Well I'm not used to feel so vulnerable, but it's all right and I'm just getting used to it.

I touched on this on another of the 'Father' threads. It should something discussed further I think, as its the only real downside of having children. Especially for someone who never really had anxiety it comes as a real shock.

I was coached many years ago on how to be more vulnerable. It was a long slow process but eventually I was able to express that side of myself. The difference here is that I have no way to truly protect my most vulnerable (my son) and this is very hard. It is getting easier, but I still have a fear that he can be taken from me at any time and I am helpless.

It is so much more than him hurting himself as well. He hurts himself constantly, every day, but this is something he needs to do. He jammmed chopsticks into the back of his throat once...... never again. Things like that.

The real fear stems from the unknown.

[samsamsam]

^^^ doesn't everyone budget for a full security detail constantly watching their kids? That is one reason I haven't had kids yet. I don't have money for the security.

[MikeS]

(10-06-2015 10:19 PM)TheBadGuy Wrote:  

I have thought about this issue of having children very much throughout my life. I waiver, but at this point do not plan on having kids. IF I were to do it though, I have thought long and hard about this. Thus far, nobody I have told this idea too has thought it good or feasible, but I still think it could work. The basic premise is this: You get 3 men (friends) to live together and plan to live together for an extended period of time. Each man can have 1 biological child with a surrogate and the 3 men raise the children all as their own. This way you can have children, no women involved, and only have to truly be 2/3 of a parent (since 3 men live together). No man can get married. All continue to live like bachelors. Have to live together at least until kids leave the house. The thing is this would probably only work with longtime friends who you know inside and out, as everyone has to commit to it. Some may think this idea is terrible, though it is the best alternative I have found to marriage which will give the kid a stable household.

Sounds like the plot to a 1980s movie. Give or take a couple of babies.

[Starbap]

Looking to get into the daddy game myself. Nothing wrong with slinging you genes around a bit, just needs to be the right girl on the receiving end.

[PapayaTapper]

(10-06-2015 10:19 PM)TheBadGuy Wrote:  

xxxxxxxxxx: You get 3 men (friends) to live together and plan to live together for an extended period of time. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[bacon]

(10-06-2015 10:19 PM)TheBadGuy Wrote:  

You get 3 men (friends) to live together and plan to live together for an extended period of time. Each man can have 1 biological child with a surrogate and the 3 men raise the children all as their own. This way you can have children, no women involved, and only have to truly be 2/3 of a parent (since 3 men live together). No man can get married. All continue to live like bachelors. Have to live together at least until kids leave the house. The thing is this would probably only work with longtime friends who you know inside and out, as everyone has to commit to it. Some may think this idea is terrible, though it is the best alternative I have found to marriage which will give the kid a stable household.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

The French cuck version:



and the US remake:



Full cuck unleashed there - propaganda works on many levels. And they even made it look cool in the French version - the men just living in a huge grand apartment and slaying pussy left and right like a modern rat pack. Then suddenly a woman dumped a baby on them and they became all Blue Pill Betas - or tamed Alphas - female fantasy after they are done riding the carousel.

[Chaos]

If you had asked me a few years ago, the answer would have been no.
Now I'm saying yes, but not right now. I'm 28 and still wanna throw in a few adventures.

Reading this thread got me thinking.

I have never been interested of having kids. Maybe because I used to be the youngest in my family and also among my relatives. There has never been any kids around me during my whole life until recently. I was always the youngster.
However, not too long ago my brother became a father and I'm amazed to see how his sons are developing in the exact way he want them to. I can definitely see how much happier he is these days.

Anyway, I had a nice but a very weak father. No rules, no boundaries, sounds like heaven but he didn't learn me a single useful thing.

I think it would be very cool to one day raise my own son and support him to be the best man he can be.

I also value having a strong and tight and supportive family, I have never had one myself but I have a few friends that have. It would be cool to one day be the father of a family like that. I already have a good mansion in a great enviroment for kids to grow up in.

As some other members here, it boils down to finding a good mother for my kids and who also "gets" me. It's absolutely impossible for me to think about having kids together with a woman I can't even live under the same roof with. I'm not expcting that to be an easy task. A crusade towards the East might be required.

We will see what will happen.
Let's check in to this thread again in ten years.

[CostinR]

Yes at some point in my mid 30s likely when I'm in a far better financial situation and have secured a solid marriage.

[KevCapitalist]

Eventually, I'm early 20s now. I see game as a longterm learning process; my goals with it are to learn how to identify identify a woman who'd make a good mother & solid match for me, learn how to keep her interested, and how to maintain direction of the family once kids are involved. Game has to be solid at that point, hell kids may test you harder than any women.

Until then I'm interested in maintaining low investment relationships so I can work toward being financially secure and so I have something to pass along to my future kids.

[Mercenary]

I wish there was a different option in the poll rather than just "yes", "no", and "I'm not sure yet" for men who aren't fathers yet.
Reading the replies here and elsewhere on the forum regarding this topic, there seems to be a difference between:

1. Guys who want to get a girl (or many girls) pregnant, but don't want to raise the child.

2. Guys who want to raise a family with a girl they willingly make pregnant.

For me (I'm in my 30's now) the desire to raw dog and finish inside a girl's pussy has become stronger than it ever was in my 20s. Back then I took all the precautions each and every time and dreaded any girl's period that was late (even by a few days). Now I WANT to blast without protection inside every girl I'm fucking and for her to get pregnant by me. I imagine her tits getting larger and her belly rounder over 9 months as she becomes more and more pregnant. But I still am able to control myself so this doen't happen. But I don't know for how long.

However, the desire to settle down and raise a family just isn't there yet. Maybe it will come in my 40s or when I've slayed enough pussy, but not now.

A few weeks ago I was talking with a cute petite 28 year old married woman who was going on about how she really wanted kids, but her husband had been stalling and making excuses for years. When she said that, the animal in me just wanted to take her to a hotel room for few hours and get the job done. Raw dog her pussy hard, blast inside multiple times and then send her back to her weak, indecisive, condom-wearing husband.

It doesn’t mean I’d actually do it, but my point is because she was married I was much more keen to get her pregnant, than I would with a girl who I knew would become a single mother if I didn’t stay with her.

Anyone else ever feel like this ?

[Off The Reservation]

(10-21-2015 10:59 AM)Mercenary Wrote:  

For me (I'm in my 30's now) the desire to raw dog and finish inside a girl's pussy has become stronger than it ever was in my 20s.......
Anyone else ever feel like this ?

Even stronger in 40s

[General Stalin]

(09-27-2015 08:08 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

In the past year, I've been getting strong urges to impregnate women, to the point where I no longer trust myself to be careful during sex. When a girl told me the other week that she would keep any baby if I accidentally impregnated her, I became more interested in her. An accidental pregnancy in the past would have been a nightmare scenario, but now I wouldn't mind it as long as the girl wasn't a slut.

I think this is happening for a couple reasons:

1. My resources are secure enough to raise a kid (in Eastern Europe)
2. I'm getting older
3. I see more value in family than before
4. I'm bored of sterile interactions with women

I'm not the first one to have this "problem": thread-7138.html

Anyone else been bitten by the urge? I know in the manosphere it is said that having children is "slavery" or something similarly negative, but it's getting harder to deny my natural urges to have them. I set up a poll above to get an idea where the forum stands on this. I know several guys are already dads.

The past 6 - 12 months I've been seeing myself considering this more and more.

If you had asked me just a little over a year ago if I wanted kids I'd say "hell no."

Over the past year of reflecting on myself, life in general, and my interactions with women, I too am seeing myself recognizing the value of family and raising children.

I am not at a spot in my life at the moment where this would be a great idea, but I believe I'd like to have kids at some point in my 30's.

My biggest concern is finding the right mother to bear my offspring.