[The Catalyst]

I've just been noticing a pattern here. I'm not talking about them being better *because* they have a hot girl next to them, but just thinking they might be correlated. By better friends, in my case, means they are more interesting to me, I have a stronger/deeper connection to them, and I feel I can trust them more.

Recently I approached this relatively hot girl. She was with a guy, and I tried to entertain them both. It turns out the guy was a solid dude with a great personality and I ended up wanting to talk to him more than the girl. A few minutes in I asked if they were together, they were, he was cool about it and joked about pimping her out.

We kept in touch and I hung out with him again, with his girlfriend and another of his friends and his girlfriend. Both were 8s or at least hard 7s. I haven't really been a social circle person but this time I felt a connection with that group of people and would be proud to call them friends.

This leads me to wonder, about the question in the title. I've always felt that guys with medicore/unfuckable girls don't generally make as good friends as guys with hotter girls, but this time it really made me feel more sure of it. There are exceptions, a couple of guys I think are solid dudes have unfuckable girlfriends, and if I was pressed, some guys with hot girlfriends who I probably wouldn't associate with. But in general the pattern seems to hold true.

If true, I'll speculate the possible reasons.

1) Learning game or being a natural at it causes you to have or develop a better personality

2) Hot girls intuitively have pretty good judgements for cool guys, at least for relationships

3) (Specific to here in New Zealand, though likely true in Australia too) Many guys don't actually care about the looks of girls. This means they have low standards and have a real "lazy" or anti-intellectual mindset. This means a guy with a hot girlfriend is more likely to *not* be like that, and actually strives for something better.

Thoughts?

[Ivanis]

I think it has more to do with nature. He possessed enough game to get an 8, which makes him, at least in some respect, more masculine. Not to mention if he has neomasculine traits; then he will most likely be more intelligent than most. He was smart enough to seek(online) or learn game that allowed him to score this chick. That makes him more personable to somebody who cruises RVF frequently. It also shows that he has good nerves, he could approach this chick without losing his head(like some ‘nice guys’ do).

That’s all I got from initial reactions. If I get anything else I will drop another post.

[John Michael Kane]

When it comes to men and women, opposites attract. A confident (but not obnoxious) man can attract a sweet (but not high on herself) feminine woman. It is a natural pairing. Women that make an effort to take care of themselves will attract a man that has his life in order.

I know a few plain janes that take care of themselves and are feminine. Not the best lookers, but they often have decent boyfriends or husbands.

Where I really see the line and where it should be drawn is the morbidly obese wife or gf that the man has made no effort to encourage her to lose weight. Her lack of taking care of herself is a lack of respect for him, and for him, it is a lack of self-respect.

[General Stalin]

One's ability to land quality trim is not a great measure of his worthiness as a comrade.

Attractive people generally attract favorable attention. A good looking couple of people are going to make others around them look up to them more than a couple of mediocre or unattractive people. This is why a great looking couple can really be the "light of the room" merely because they are attractive. That is biological.

In the game aspect, as Ivanis pointed out, a dude who lands a hot piece of ass likely has a certain way about him that makes him socially favorable and therefor someone you may want to know and may be great to interact with. On the other hand, the dude could be a piece of shit and landed the girl because she digs the loser drug dealer type who treats her like garbage.

Those things aside, I would not conclude that dudes with good looking women on their arms typically make "better friends." Just from my personal experience some dudes I've known with good looking women have been total pieces of shit and/or unreliable flaky scumbags. Conversely, my closest friends who would do anything for me and have been there through it all have generally been with some pretty plain and pretty ugly ass broads.

[Nowak]

I've also observed this, heres what I've seen. Value creates value but ones sexual market place needs to be accounted for. The coolest dudes I've met were ugly who could pull well or good looking and extremely adventurous and knowledgable,both had charm and a certain level of charisma. Ugly guys who are dicks were Gamma males and good looking guys who are dicks were lazy fucks who had personality issues. What both the ugly and good looking guys had to get the hot girl or lots of girls was class to a certain degree. They presented themselves well and didn't go after damaged girls who had daddy issues. The slobs wanted the damaged goods and will burn down all roads to get them and loose them again.

Ugly dudes though need more charisma than good looking guys.

[StrikeBack]

Here's something slightly different from the other side. As a man with a pretty wife, when I'm out with my woman, I find it hard to talk to guys with mediocre GFs or wives. Not necessarily because the guy himself is bad, but because his woman inevitably throws a lot of hate towards mine and drags his pussy whipped arse away.

If the women aren't there, I find myself getting along fine with most men.

[Barron]

How cool is the guy really?
How bad do you want to fuck his girl?
If given the chance, would you fuck her if he wouldn't know about it and still hang out with him?

Don't be afraid to assume the worst of yourself, and always consider it before jumping to conclusions (like the topic):
Is he cool or do you just want to orbit the gf and see if you find an opening? Not saying you do, but assume it. And then draw your conclusions about the bf from there.

Edit - I've thought about this before and my experience was always one of following:
1. I just wanted to fuck the hot gf.
2. I was only interested in hanging out with the bf as a means of gaining social circle access to girls as hot as his gf.

[MajorStyles]

Interesting question...I have to do an inventory. I only have 3-5 really good friends (which is more than most people, particularly women).

Friend #1: Married to a fat chick
Friend #2: Dating a decent looking woman
Friend #3: Single

My hunch tells me you're right, but my personal experience is not validating it. Something to think about, though...

[XPQ22]

Frankly, in my neck of the woods I'm consistently surprised by the mediocrity of the guys "hot girls" deign to call their boyfriends. Yawn-inducing Poindexter mufuckas, not ugly but definitely not capable of running 'good looking guy game', with office jobs who kiss her ass all day like they won the lottery, and whom I probably couldn't count on to lend me a five spot if I needed it to bail me out of trouble. I find 50 y/o bouncers way easier to relate to.

My overall impression of the guys attractive college-educated white women in their late 20s and early 30s in Boston choose for LTRs/marriage is "exceptionally average." Tall, but not too tall, well-off but not super-rich, educated but not into education for its own sake, not overweight but not in fantastic shape, somewhat ambitious but not so ambitious it makes her look bad, superficially friendly to other guys but not really interested in making new social connections, etc.

A fine accessory and mirror for her vanity.

[Meat Head]

The guys I have met with hot girls tend to be pompous arrogant jerks and that is why girls like them.

[James Bond Next level]

I think we're approaching this the wrong way. From personal experience, if I met a guy with an ugly gf, I'm gonna think "how can you fuck that and even worse, how can you make her your gf?". It will naturally decrease the respect I will have for the guy, I'm gonna assume he's beta/weak. Then, maybe I'm gonna say provocative things to see if he reacts, test him, make fun of him, etc. If there is no respect, it's hard to be friends IMO. Doesn't mean I'm friends with every womanizer, but it's more likely than with a beta chump.

[Il Bersagliere]

In my experience, guys with average or ugly girls were cooler and more fun to kick it with, on average.

I found that guys with hot girlfriends were also pretty friendly still (since I make friends effortlessly), but they mate guarded A LOT and that often put a strain on the friendship, especially if you teased her or whatnot. In contrast, my friends who were coupled with plain Janes were much more easygoing and never took themselves too seriously. I'm under the impression that guys who have snagged themselves a beauty may see her as a status symbol, based on the behavior I outlined above.

Another interesting dynamic I have noted is how both of these archetypes respond to competition. IME guys with hotties would treat everything as a competition, while at the same time cupcake their bitch to death (thank you, Tariq Nasheed). We get it, bud. You have a hot girlfriend. It's great, but other guys have done it too. When I used to do the social circle thing, I had a friend who would try and set up this weird feudal dynamic where the buy-in was your ability to get one. My friends with regular girls just relax and offer a more give and take relationship with you by default.

Of course, these are just my experiences and from time to time, I do come across cases that are conflicting.

Just my 2 cents.

[The Catalyst]

(11-19-2016 09:27 AM)NomadofEU Wrote:  

How cool is the guy really?
How bad do you want to fuck his girl?
If given the chance, would you fuck her if he wouldn't know about it and still hang out with him?

Don't be afraid to assume the worst of yourself, and always consider it before jumping to conclusions (like the topic):
Is he cool or do you just want to orbit the gf and see if you find an opening? Not saying you do, but assume it. And then draw your conclusions about the bf from there.

Edit - I've thought about this before and my experience was always one of following:
1. I just wanted to fuck the hot gf.
2. I was only interested in hanging out with the bf as a means of gaining social circle access to girls as hot as his gf.

He is pretty cool really. Objectively I still would like him a lot even if his girl was busted but I'd have less respect for him obviously.
I want to fuck his girl moderately bad, like I want 8s a lot but her less so since she's with him.
If she makes the first move, sure I'd bang.

You do make a point about social circle though. I think it's inspiring that a guy very similar to me is slaying 8s. So part of this is wanting to learn how he does it.

[Dalaran1991]

Halo effect in play. When we see a guy with an attractive girl, we tend to automatically assume he must be good in order to be with her. And this frames our subsequent perception of him as positive.

Among the attractive girls I know, some have cool boyfriends and some very annoying boyfriends, though I do agree that attractive girls have higher chance to have a very cool boyfriend.

Next time try this: talk to a guy first, and remember your first impression of him. Then tryna find out if he has a girlfriend and see how your impression change. Way too often we talk to a guy, think he's pretty cool, then a warpig of a girlfriend shows up and we are like "shame on you bro" which set the mood for our future interaction with him.

Another angle to look at this:

Attractive girls tend to have attractive boyfriend, no homo. And from personal experience attractive people tend to be more pleasant to be around. Humans reflect the behavior they receive back at the world. If growing up you are used to people being nice to you, you tend to be nice back to people. This is the same reason attractive girls are actually easier to game than ugly girls.

In the end, there might be a small correlation but certainly not causation. I wouldnt put consider a guy's worth as a friend based on the attractiveness of his girl. Though if he is my friend Ill do what I can to help him get a good girl.

[Jukes]

To me, it isn't based the couple interactions not the look. Be neutral and observe. The woman submit to the man and the man will have rules in place for her. Be neutral and observe them. That is the closet person to him besides family and best friends. If he treat her like real bad beyond the usual bickering., you know your answer already.

[The Catalyst]

(11-19-2016 08:55 PM)Jukes Wrote:  

To me, it isn't based the couple interactions not the look. Be neutral and observe. The woman submit to the man and the man will have rules in place for her. Be neutral and observe them. That is the closet person to him besides family and best friends. If he treat her like real bad beyond the usual bickering., you know your answer already.

You're totally right. The guys I was talking about have their girls submitting to them. They are a bit hippy but definitely aren't taking shit from the girls. And the girls have decent personalities too.

[R_Niko]

I don't think there's a generalization to be found here. It really goes every which way. I would say that insecure men make shitty friends, so if a dude has a 9 because he's too insecure to date the 6 who's a better match for him, then he's gonna be a dick. Guys like that invest all their energy into maintaining their relationship and wind up being shitty to other men.

I have a friend like that, he puts so much energy and focus and time and money into chasing the hottest woman who'll consider having him, that he becomes kind of a dick to his male friends, esp. if other guys happen to be getting attention he wants for himself. It's not because he has a hot woman, it's because he's deeply insecure.

[Kieran]

(11-19-2016 02:33 PM)James Bond Next level Wrote:  

I think we're approaching this the wrong way. From personal experience, if I met a guy with an ugly gf, I'm gonna think "how can you fuck that and even worse, how can you make her your gf?". It will naturally decrease the respect I will have for the guy, I'm gonna assume he's beta/weak. Then, maybe I'm gonna say provocative things to see if he reacts, test him, make fun of him, etc. If there is no respect, it's hard to be friends IMO. Doesn't mean I'm friends with every womanizer, but it's more likely than with a beta chump.

Why would you even want to do that and not just move on instead? Go around disrespecting people in front of their girls and you're going to end up getting a glass in the face or something sooner or later.

[Jukes]

(11-19-2016 09:34 PM)The Catalyst Wrote:  

(11-19-2016 08:55 PM)Jukes Wrote:  

To me, it isn't based the couple interactions not the look. Be neutral and observe. The woman submit to the man and the man will have rules in place for her. Be neutral and observe them. That is the closet person to him besides family and best friends. If he treat her like real bad beyond the usual bickering., you know your answer already.

You're totally right. The guys I was talking about have their girls submitting to them. They are a bit hippy but definitely aren't taking shit from the girls. And the girls have decent personalities too.

Had to learn that one this year. Taking your sentence a bit is what kind of man she is submitting to will determine your friendship.

[AntiTrace]

(11-20-2016 05:22 AM)Kieran Wrote:  

(11-19-2016 02:33 PM)James Bond Next level Wrote:  

I think we're approaching this the wrong way. From personal experience, if I met a guy with an ugly gf, I'm gonna think "how can you fuck that and even worse, how can you make her your gf?". It will naturally decrease the respect I will have for the guy, I'm gonna assume he's beta/weak. Then, maybe I'm gonna say provocative things to see if he reacts, test him, make fun of him, etc. If there is no respect, it's hard to be friends IMO. Doesn't mean I'm friends with every womanizer, but it's more likely than with a beta chump.

Why would you even want to do that and not just move on instead? Go around disrespecting people in front of their girls and you're going to end up getting a glass in the face or something sooner or later.

Some people confuse "alpha" or even "cocky/funny asshole" with just being a straight asshole.

[RoastBeefCurtains4Me]

Guys who are good in one area tend to be good in at least some others. If a guy is attractive to women, regardless of his mix of game, looks, money, and social proof, he's likely to be generally likeable, and likely to be an all around great guy. It's obviously not a 100% thing, but there is clearly a positive correlation.

Of course, you might run into a guy who gets hot chicks with hard core asshole game, with a dash of violent criminal game for good measure. A guy like this could be an asshole in every way. You never know until you actually meet the guy.

[Comte De St. Germain]

I'd say overall quality of the girlfriend than simply if she's ugly or not. Then again what are you looking for. I know dipshits who look like this 24/7



and have hot girlfriends who have a stick up their ass as much as them. They then end up as a fat, 6 figure salary suburban couple with two kids usually. These are the people you don't want to associate with(generally) as they have no future. And in all honesty if they didn't look half way decent in the looks department as it is they wouldn't be where they are.

Then there's guys who are legitimately pretty damned cool and don't have to even mention it. They have hot girls without exception on their arm and sometimes on both. And these guys have that kind of magic that's hard to replicate with anything.

After that is your above average guy who is no nonsense and consistent pulls girls that are sweet and above average. Which is why they're smart and leverage everything they have to offer for maximum value.

Everyone else is much farther down this list.

Granted the only criteria I'm using is the level of chick they can pull without any nuance to this involved.

So as a general rule

For friendships:

Really cool guy>guy who leverages everything he has>prep who pulls high quality chicks but has a stick up his ass>everyone else who can't leverage shit and is a pleb

For utilizing connections:

Really cool guy>prep>above average dude>everyone else

[XPQ22]

(11-21-2016 11:23 AM)Comte De St. Germain Wrote:  

I'd say overall quality of the girlfriend than simply if she's ugly or not. Then again what are you looking for. I know dipshits who look like this 24/7

One time I was talking with a guy who looked like that outside a bar in Cambridge who kept asking me if I "hung out in Provincetown" and if he could have my phone number.

I matter-of-factly asked him if he was gay.

[Comte De St. Germain]

(11-21-2016 11:29 AM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

(11-21-2016 11:23 AM)Comte De St. Germain Wrote:  

I'd say overall quality of the girlfriend than simply if she's ugly or not. Then again what are you looking for. I know dipshits who look like this 24/7

One time I was talking with a guy who looked like that outside a bar in Cambridge who kept asking me if I "hung out in Provincetown" and if he could have my phone number.

I matter-of-factly asked him if he was gay.

What annoys me more is the face they make. Accurate description: