[The_e_man]

Gentlemen,

I'd like to preface this post with a little bit of background. I am 22 years old, have been reading about and studying game since I was 17. Made major strides and improvements; had a few LTR's, have a mini-harem, notch count to date is at 51 (I'm not including a few embarrassingly ugly/fat chicks I took down in times of desperation), etc etc. I have a book shelf full of game-related material: Bang, Models, Gorilla Mindset, Rational Male, Art of Seduction, 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, Day Bang, The Game, The Rules of The Game, Mystery Method, Way of the Superior Man. I have torrented and watched the entire RSD video bootcamp series such as Blueprint Decoded and Foundations. I have subscribed to and listened to every episode of the Christian McQueen show (and his new iteration: A Man in Demand Radio), The Good Looking Loser Podcast, RSD podcasts, Mike CF's Danger and Play Podcast. I have read essentially every single article on Good Looking Loser, Roosh V, Return of Kings, Danger and Play, Real Christian McQueen. Avid creeper of many pua/game forums. I'm a member of the RSD inner-circle Edmonton chapter and I am an esteemed member with many people asking me for advice and mentorship. I go out clubbing 5 nights a week, sober, rolling dolo about half the time (but inevitably seeing many friends out when I go). I daygame about 2-5 days a week but always with a wing. I'll admit solo daygame is still a bit of an issue for me. Game had changed my life for the better and I am incredibly grateful I have came across this community of top-shelf, cream-of-the-crop men.

And now that I have sufficiently pumped my own tires, I am here to tell you that I am having a major crisis of faith.

I have a good friend that does not study game. He is very handsome. 100+ likes of pictures on Instagram handsome. Girls constantly texting him asking/begging him to hang out. Girls constantly snap chatting him sexual pictures of their bodies asking him to come over. I met up with him last night at a club and it was a big group of us. He doesn't study game so he has to drink alcohol in order to talk to girls he doesn't know. And by talk I mean respond. This guy has not done a single cold approach in his life as far as I know. Girls come up to him and say shit like "hey I think I have you on instagram, your name's Ty right?" or "I'm pretty sure I've seen you around before, what's your name?"
Anyways, almost every set I open the girls end up giving all the attention to him. In fact, some sets last night were blatantly fighting over him right in front of all of us. Girls shamelessly go after him. I see a really hot girl and I open her and start chatting a little bit. He is standing next to me and after a minute or so she looks over at him and does the typical "I think I've seen you before, what's your name?" She then was stuck to his hip like glue. Other girls are walking by and trying to grab his hand and giving him massive DHV spikes. He took that gorgeous smokeshow home last night and he sent me some snapchats in the morning of her sleeping naked in his bed. Nothing really hit me until I woke up and saw those snapchats. Thats when I got hit with a wave of strong jealously and game-denialism happening inside of me.

I do not want to beat a dead horse with the looks vs game debate. I have actually posted in a thread a while back and had discussions with forum veterans such as WIA about the importance of looks. I suppose the reason I'm posting this thread is because I want positive reinforcement from you guys saying "don't worry, game is still more important - looks don't matter that much." I have invested so much time and effort into game just to have my paradigm shattered by a good looking guy who gets girls to throw themselves at him with absolutely no effort on his part.
Surely someone else on this forum has had experience with a friend like this and can chime in with some insight. I could really use some insight on this, brothers, because I want to keep moving forward but this stupid hang-ups I have about looks is really starting to bother me.

[GlobalMan]

I don't understand how the natural success of another man would affect what you already know does in fact work for you. Why would it "shatter" the things you've already proven to yourself?

Here's an example. I'm a good looking guy according to many ladies (no ego), I have been opened by women, given compliments in random situations etc. Before I was game-aware I watched men with what may be considered lesser looks have FAR more success than me. Far more. They knew how to talk to women, and I didn't. I was relying on looks alone, and while that did get me something, it wasn't the "something" of my choosing, and I had little control.

Game is essential for ALL men, especially these days. While your friend may be having more success in some situations, you are no doubt out-performing many other men because of game.

Don't let what another guy is getting affect your path. You're doing the right things.

[The_e_man]

GlobalMan - I think it comes from the fact that I put in so much effort and work yet I do not get anything close to the quality and quantity that another man get with no effort. Seeing girls first hand fighting over a guy they just met because he's really good looking while I'm the one that has to do all of the initiating, escalating, moving forward, ALL has to be done by me or nothing will ever happen.

So I do understand game works, I would not have the credentials I have without game. I'd probably be at 3-4 notches and stuck in a shitty one-sided LTR if it weren't for game. It's just shattering to my paradigm seeing this guy have everything handed to him on a silver platter with absolutely zero application of game or effort (apart from showing up).

[lskdfjldsf]

Women are naturally drawn to the leader of a group. Even at a subconscious level, they can quickly identify the most commanding, confident, and attractive member. If you're rolling with top-tier guys who can attract without much game, the problem isn't necessarily you, it's the competitive situation you're putting yourself in. Practice solo for a while - approach in natural settings where you can be yourself.

It seems that you need the initial confidence boost of a homerun. Game does matter, but it takes skill and practice to develop. Start small in a better setting and work your way up the ladder from there.

[Samseau]

This guy is at the top of the looks pyramid and has a popular instagram account, and somehow this invalidates game? Sounds like you don't know what game is.

He has strong PASSIVE game via the looks department. There is a difference between active and passive game.

But fear not. His looks will fade. And when they do and his lack of active game will be a serious weakness and he'll be in the same boat as every other man. Although looks are hardly the most important thing for a man, him having the looks that can get panties moist will fade by 35. It may happen much sooner for him if he starts to go bald or doesn't take care of his body. Men still stay good looking past 35 (unlike most women) with effort but it won't be the kind of earth-shattering looks that get him laid at zero effort.

So, he has two options:

- Develop some active game for when his looks fade
- Cash in on his looks before he gets ugly and marry a smokeshow (but even then, who is to say he won't get divorce raped)

Otherwise he'll be in incel land later on in life.

But nothing he is or does contradicts the power of (active) game.

[GlobalMan]

^Samseau laid in out perfectly. I was someone who relied on passive game in the past, and it's not something that gets you what you really want. If I hadn't learned game I would still be under the control and whims of whichever shallow woman took a liking to me in the moment.

[OregonToSoCal]

I can relate to your frustration but the others guys here have already said it. The two of you are playing two completely different games here. For all intents and purposes your friend is a local celebrity of sorts. I don't think any of us here would feel the least bit surprised or disappointed if we went out with Brad Pitt and all of the women were naturally flocking to him. If I were in your position I would do the following things:

1. Instead of being jealous of his success, really take the time and study every little thing he does. His fashion, his posture, his body language, his manner of speaking. Nothing is too insignificant here. For those who remember the old self help guru Tony Robbins, he called this "modeling". He would preach why invent the wheel when you can simply take someone who is getting the kinds of results you want and mirror (copy) every single thing they do and theoretically you will get the same results. Of course looks don't factor into this but I'm sure there is a lot of behavior and body language that you can learn from him. My definition of a "natural" is not someone who has no skill but instead someone who happens to have naturally figured out or is already doing what the non naturals had to practice and learn to do. Even though he has never formally studied game make no mistake, he's running it, though he's likely unaware of it.

2. Now that you know what it's like to be around this guy and see all of the attention diverted to him, I would distance yourself from going out with him. Or at the very least set the expectation that when you do go out with him your mission is not to pull but to simply observe and pick up as much useful info as you can from him (see point 1).

3. Finally don't discount the progress that you've already made in your own game journey. I'm especially guilty of this. I'm willing to bet the amount of success and attention you get from women now is exponentially greater than what you were getting only a year ago. Bottom line, stop comparing yourself to him. There will always be someone taller, richer, more skilled, better looking, you name it. You have to keep running your own race!

[GlobalMan]

(08-13-2015 03:03 PM)OregonToSoCal Wrote:  

3. Finally don't discount the progress that you've already made in your own game journey. I'm especially guilty of this. I'm willing to bet the amount of success and attention you get from women now is exponentially greater than what you were getting only a year ago. Bottom line, stop comparing yourself to him. There will always be someone taller, richer, more skilled, better looking, you name it. You have to keep running your own race!

This is excellent advice.

[game_ethic]

Unfortunately, that's how the world works. There's literally nothing you can do about it, besides changing your irrational beliefs and accepting the grim facts of life.

[TheFinalEpic]

Be the best you can be, it's absolutely worthless to look at what others are doing unless it is to learn and build a better you from it. There are things that people are better than you are at, and then things they cannot compete with you in, such is life.

[DamienCasanova]

Not all men are created equal, and you can't waste time complaining about those who have it better than you,, all you can do is continue to be the best you can be. Your life now is still better than before you studied game, you say this yourself in the opening paragraph. Don't let catching the green monster (jealousy) make you forget where you came from and all the positive improvements to your life you've already had due to your hard work and game. Keep striving for excellence

[HankMoody]

Well, think of it like this...

You have your natural athletes like Allen Iverson, Joe Montana, and LeBron James. They don't have to practice as hard, because it comes naturally. They can show up and beat most guys without having to practice.

Then you have your Michael Jordan's and your Tom Brady's. These guys have natural talent, but also outworked everyone else in the sport to get where they're at. They're just as good.

In between you have your journeyman - Joe Flacco, Jay Cutler, Ryan Fitzpatrick. These guys haven't lit the world on fire, but they get the job done. I don't see Fitzpatrick ever becoming the league MVP, but he'll win some football games. They work hard just to stay in professional sports.

Here is my point - Supernatural talent + some effort = lots of results. Big effort + talent = lots of results. Big effort + not a lot of talent = some results.

If you want to slay 10s on a nightly basis with no effort, well, you need a lot of natural good looks, plus some game. Very few people will be able to play the game at this level.

If you're pretty decent looking but oozing with game, you can do just as well as someone who is great looking.

If you're 5'5, a bit chubby, but have a lot of game, you still can't realistically expect to slay dimes on the regular. It is what it is. There has to be some physical attraction for a girl to bang you. Ryan Fitzpatrick will never be Joe Montana or Tom Brady, no matter how hard he works. He just doesn't have the raw talent to get there.

For most of us, having a decent sex life is very attainable. I prefer the 7s and the 8s anyway.

Also, my personal view is that women just aren't worth sweating all that much. They're vapid, insecure, and generally boring. If you're having a crisis over women, you're focused on the wrong stuff.

[Just Approach]

I think deep down you are envious/jealous of your friend. This needs to stop before things take a turn in the wrong direction between you too. He didn't have a choice to have the physical characteristics that he has. He was born with it so I don't see why you are looking at the situation negatively.

I am in a similar situation as you but instead I embrace it in a positive manner.

I'm about 5 Feet 10 Inches while my Best Friend that I have known for years is 6 Feet 6 Inches.

I don't see this as a negative but rather a challenge that I am up to participate and win at.

We went to college together and were dorm mates and he easily had girls ready to fuck him at a moments notice. But he is not a player and he respects women not sluts.

Were both good looking but I am content with my situation and continue to fight an uphill battle looking back.

This is why I have cold approached over 1,000 girls by myself already and have developed an inner confidence makes me look at the positive benefits and not focus on the negative.

He is still my best friend and we share a good friendship and don't let these hoes interfere with it. "Bros Before Hoes".

In fact when we go out I actively help him get girls by cold approaching girls by asking them How Tall are They? And then have them stand next to my 6 Feet 6 Inches Bestfriend. Then I whip out my phone and ask them to take a picture with him and a majority of the time they give him a kiss on the lips/makeout right there on the spot. A lot of girls give him the googley eyes when they seem him because of how tall and good looking he is. But he is also very smart, well spoken, respectful, and is a positive person who cares about others.

That is why I don't let the height difference bother me when we go out and I just maintain my abundance mentality.
I do pretty well for myself on my own so talking to randoms with him is fun as well and we share bro moments with it afterwards.

[ksbms]

What I think you're after is a yearning for the world to be a just place where everyone deserves equally the same things as long as they work hard enough. I'm afraid, this will not happen on the planet we call mother earth any time soon. Hard as it is, for most of us a moderate consolation in the fact that most share the same burdens every waking hour of the day, every sleeping hour of the night.

[Travesty]

The OP doesn't like this because to him he has made Game such a center piece of his life that it is like he spent 10 years learning guitar practicing all the time and his friend comes up picks up a guitar and out does him with having never played before. That's life.

First off there is truth in OP's post I have to say I hear this from guys "I am really good looking had no Game couldn't get chicks, now have Game and I can get chicks!".

Then you aren't as good looking as you think.

I have had some really good looking friends. Chicks will come knock on their door in junior high looking for them. They will plan birthday parties for them without ever having kissed. They will obsessively send them text messages. Truly great looking guys it is a different level, I have known these guys and they had no game could still get laid or have a really attractive girlfriend whenever they wanted. The only real thing holding them back was a morality issue of plowing through girls. They get confidence from just existing.

If you are that good looking and even have a few crumbs of Game you wouldn't be on a board like this long, maybe to get some tiny basics. Your phone is blowing up with 7+'s making it easy... why try more, these guys can use their energy else where in life.

Do you get jealous for a bird having wings to fly?

Do you get jealous of Michael Jordan being able to dunk from the free throw line?

You have 50+ life time notches that is what... 8 times the lifetime median for men probably at much higher quality?

Don't be jealous of your friend look what he has body wise, try to work out to achieve that sort of proportion and so on.

Looks is the most important factor there is that determines the amount of work to get a girl. I don't think anyone has ever disregarded that on this board.

Guys that are 8+ and more often 8.5+ really don't need game. That is just the truth. Just like 8+ chicks really don't need a job.

The best solution for you is to wait for affordable futuristic nano plastic surgery. When that happens though everyone would be on an even playing field anyway, then Game would matter more than ever.

[Travesty]

(08-13-2015 03:50 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

If you're 5'5, a bit chubby, but have a lot of game, you still can't realistically expect to slay dimes on the regular. It is what it is.

I just want to mention I see this time an again guys listing height and body shape as the bigger attraction factor examples.

Face is the most important by FAR, the only hold against that is if you are under 5'8" even then though you could still kill it with the majority of chicks with great looks.

That is just the truth.

[amusedmastery]

You're too damn young to be having any sort of "crisis". Keep bettering yourself everyday and forget about notch counts and somebody that's better looking than you. Play the long game. Men typically get better looking with age (if you workout and take care of yourself).

Start lifting and get in shape for you and your health. Study new things and transform into an interesting character with charisma. I'd be more worried about your friend not having social skills than you not having great looks.

[Saweeep]

I think you may need to try and find some sort of focus for yourself outside of game.

You seem a little obsessed to be honest. Unhealthily, in my opinion.

[ChickenLover9T9]

I dunno man... Am I the only one who has seen good looking and good looking plus jacked guys still have a hard time? That's what I see most of the time actually, looks are great for the initial impression and all other things being equal you will get better quality and quantity...

However, there are still a ton of places from meet to sex where the good looking guy can say some dumb shit or not handle a logistical block correctly and it's over. If you're good looking or more specifically, if a girl is just really into you, she will forgive more errors and "help" you along the way, but even a good looking man doesn't get that much help to blow all problems out of the water, especially from a woman who is worth seeing again.

Example: you're in a checkout line at a grocery store on a weekday evening and you're talking to hot chick, she is asking you personal questions and playfully touching your arm. Either she is very interested or just a great flirt. Let's just assume the former, which it is in a lot of cases. You assume she is on her own so once you've paid for your stuff you put your change slowly back into your wallet until she comes out of the store. Then bam, you see her come out, but she is holding hands with a guy, a completely average guy, who is not as good looking as you, surrounded by four friends. Can good looks magically break up the group of friends and get rid of the BF? Hell no. I'd like to see what your friend would do in such a scenario, given that he cannot talk to chicks at first without alcohol.

Granted what I just described is a very difficult logistical situation which may be impossible to even the best "game" cannot change unless you are very, very famous.

Your friend knows what to do when he senses a woman likes him. He has to face a lot fewer rejections but he doesn't have full choice because he doesn't actively approach. However, the ability to bring a strange woman from meet to sex is "game". He just has his own way of doing things that work for him. Also, I suspect a mixture of his good looks and past success with women are creating a sort of positive feedback loop in his mind where he can turn up at a place and girls can smell what has been called by some "PUAs" as "poon dust". Women are not psychic, but they do have a keen sense of smell for "poon dust". It's likely your friend's energy/vibe is also what is drawing them in, something that is very difficult to teach and is built with life experience, not just with women, but travel, achievements, living a life of purpose and so on. That is seen as another form of "game". If you take a pure "very good looking" man who has an energy/vibe that repulses women and men alike, and who is scared of logistically and physically escalating the interaction, you would be surprised at how poorly he will perform.

Try and look beyond this guy's looks as to what is drawing the women in, try to learn from exactly how he does it. He may be very smooth from meet to sex and you may be able to pick up some tips.

[The_e_man]

(08-13-2015 05:14 PM)Travesty Wrote:  

The OP doesn't like this because to him he has made Game such a center piece of his life that it is like he spent 10 years learning guitar practicing all the time and his friend comes up picks up a guitar and out does him with having never played before. That's life.

Absolutely spot on. Exactly how I'm feeling right now, really disheartening.

[scorpion]

(08-13-2015 02:16 PM)The_e_man Wrote:  

Gentlemen,

I'd like to preface this post with a little bit of background. I am 22 years old, have been reading about and studying game since I was 17. Made major strides and improvements; had a few LTR's, have a mini-harem, notch count to date is at 51 (I'm not including a few embarrassingly ugly/fat chicks I took down in times of desperation), etc etc. I have a book shelf full of game-related material: Bang, Models, Gorilla Mindset, Rational Male, Art of Seduction, 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, Day Bang, The Game, The Rules of The Game, Mystery Method, Way of the Superior Man. I have torrented and watched the entire RSD video bootcamp series such as Blueprint Decoded and Foundations. I have subscribed to and listened to every episode of the Christian McQueen show (and his new iteration: A Man in Demand Radio), The Good Looking Loser Podcast, RSD podcasts, Mike CF's Danger and Play Podcast. I have read essentially every single article on Good Looking Loser, Roosh V, Return of Kings, Danger and Play, Real Christian McQueen. Avid creeper of many pua/game forums. I'm a member of the RSD inner-circle Edmonton chapter and I am an esteemed member with many people asking me for advice and mentorship. I go out clubbing 5 nights a week, sober, rolling dolo about half the time (but inevitably seeing many friends out when I go). I daygame about 2-5 days a week but always with a wing. I'll admit solo daygame is still a bit of an issue for me. Game had changed my life for the better and I am incredibly grateful I have came across this community of top-shelf, cream-of-the-crop men.

This is indicative of an unhealthy, borderline autistic obsession with game. You need to tone it down and focus more generally on self-improvement and personal development. For starters, it's painfully obvious you're deriving most of your self-esteem from your success with women (which is why your good looking friend's effortless success bothers you so much). Watching your friend do things you cannot do with women, despite the vast amount of effort you put in to game, is obviously going to feel like a slap in the face, if you solely measure your self-esteem by how many girls you can fuck. Notch count is not the be-all, end-all measure of a man, however. You need to get over that erroneous assumption if you're going to continue developing as a man. You have an insecurity you need to address: you think your value as a man only stems from being desired by women. Find other things to take pride in (self development). Learn new skills, expand your horizons. Stop thinking that the meaning of life is hidden between a woman's legs. It's not. You've fucked 51 girls at the age of 22. You're a victim of your own success as much as anything else. It's time to branch out from notch hunting if you want to grow as a man. You need to figure out who you really are and stop trying to be whatever you think is going to get you laid. Establish a self-identity outside of game. You need new reasons to respect yourself.

[TonySandos]

It's still a personality fault E_man. As the illuminated GlobalMan said, "I don't understand how the natural success of another man would affect what you already know does in fact work for you. Why would it "shatter" the things you've already proven to yourself?"

First off, you're existing in a bubble with a predefined pecking order; you and other guys in your league and guys like your friend are de facto 'nobles' or 'kings'. I say this because I think you're either a collegiate type based on what you described of your life, or you stay the same scenes too often.

Game is nice, but a man needs purpose, principles and values to anchor himself outside of seeking women. No wonder you're unhappy when you perceive the world through a lens of competitive, shallow nihilism. Look to Roosh and your top-top game instructors. You'll see men who's confidence is rooted in something else aside from their game skill. Lasting confidence attracts a number of women. It comes from pride rooted in accomplishments, skills/talents and the love of others. Working on adding dimension to yourself may help you out.

[The_e_man]

Scorpion - Your post is the slap in the face that I desperately need.
I'll even go as far as to admit I receive more pleasure from the ego validation of sex then the actual act of sex itself. Everytime I get a new notch, I feel a rush of endorphins and euphoria and a heightened sense of well-being. I feel as if I conquered a dragon.
Once my dick is inside of a woman, I almost no longer care past that point as it is now an official notch and I have "won."

I am rooting too much of my own sense of self-worth in my success with women.
How does one stop this though? I have a very high sex drive and beautiful girls are constantly on my mind.

[TonySandos]

You need to channel your energy into a constructive endeavor. Start a side-money scheme, develop an artistic talent to feed your emotions, get into a martial art, do something. You should become distracted(ahem, focused)on these feasible talents instead of base desires flowing around your day dreams all day. You'll be distracted by wielding together a bike frame or developing symphony number 9 of your own. If that isn't sufficient, I guess a mini relationship or plates may help

[wi30]

I'm with Scorpion. Dude, your notch count is over 51 at age 22. That's better than 99 percent of all guys that have ever lived. What are you worried about? Your buddy is in the 99.9 percentile by what you describe. I was worried about the same thing four years ago. http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-6680.html

My advice is to focus on your hobbies. Do you play any sports? Musical instruments? Hit the gym? I'm not much older than you but trust me, there is much more to life than bitches. Find your passion and hit the ground running.