[Suits]

(08-18-2015 12:07 AM)SandyKofax Wrote:  

The few women that do pass that ranger course under the standard are going to be some burly strong women. And as a OIF veteran in IRAQ I saw a lot of women take on combat roles and adapt without issue. For instance Military Police is a cross gender role but in IRAQ MP's had the very dangerous job of convoy security. A lot of women were in direct ambushes/ied attacks and served with distinction. These instances are actually what led to the discussion of allowing women.

No, there has been pressure to allow women into all areas, military and otherwise for a long time.

This isn't a new conversation, so much as an old agenda being pushed with new information.

[infowarrior1]

Just in 2 women passed the ranger training course:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/08/...two-women/

[Easy_C]

Fucking called it:
https://www.facebook.com/johntreed.publi...2318130196

Quote:

Nearing the end of their third attempt at Darby, all three had 2 failed patrols, and General Scott Miller (movement excellence commander of Ft Benning) showed up to be their guest walker. [As far as I know, no officer above the rank of colonel was ever a walker or lane grader. When I went to Ranger School, I believe the graders were all either NCOs or captains or majors. I do not even believe that any officer associated with the school was a general including the commandant of the ranger school. I think he was a LTC or Col.] All three passed.

All three advanced to Mountains

Nearing the end of the patrol phase of mountains all three women had 2 failed patrols and guess who showed up again to be their guest RI [?] walker..... 2 of the three passed, and one has been recycled.

Some of the guys I work with here remember Miller from Delta [Force]. I'm sure that's not what's being reported, but when we first heard a general had walked them, three of them chimed in with "Scotty Miller" in unison.

They will pass, and probably be honor grads. "

Sounds like command interference to me...[plain old dishonesty to me if they did not earn passing grades]

Does not surprise me. The General’s Boss most likely told him (Miller) if you want to make three stars, there will be female Ranger graduates! So he Santa Claused them so they would pass. Sad times. This PC BS will be the end of us, if it hasn’t already sealed our fate!

[Spiritus]

To be honest, this is pretty badass: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...thers.html

[H1N1]

(08-18-2015 08:03 AM)Easy_C Wrote:  

Fucking called it:
https://www.facebook.com/johntreed.publi...2318130196

Quote:

Nearing the end of their third attempt at Darby, all three had 2 failed patrols, and General Scott Miller (movement excellence commander of Ft Benning) showed up to be their guest walker. [As far as I know, no officer above the rank of colonel was ever a walker or lane grader. When I went to Ranger School, I believe the graders were all either NCOs or captains or majors. I do not even believe that any officer associated with the school was a general including the commandant of the ranger school. I think he was a LTC or Col.] All three passed.

All three advanced to Mountains

Nearing the end of the patrol phase of mountains all three women had 2 failed patrols and guess who showed up again to be their guest RI [?] walker..... 2 of the three passed, and one has been recycled.

Some of the guys I work with here remember Miller from Delta [Force]. I'm sure that's not what's being reported, but when we first heard a general had walked them, three of them chimed in with "Scotty Miller" in unison.

They will pass, and probably be honor grads. "

Sounds like command interference to me...[plain old dishonesty to me if they did not earn passing grades]

Does not surprise me. The General’s Boss most likely told him (Miller) if you want to make three stars, there will be female Ranger graduates! So he Santa Claused them so they would pass. Sad times. This PC BS will be the end of us, if it hasn’t already sealed our fate!

Ye, I have been pretty horrified at how feminised and ineffective large chunks of the army has become, and it's one of the major reasons I'm being processed out as we speak. All my family on both sides have been military or closely involved, and in many respects I'm a huge supporter of it. But having spent time on the inside, I can't personally reconcile being part of it any more. That may in part be due to my specialisation, but having been through basic training with everyone, I suspect not.

[lskdfjldsf]

The Ranger tab (earned after passing the training) means jack shit. It means you're "certified" with that level of training and nothing else. Unless you're assigned to the 75th Ranger Regiment it's nothing more than a velcro patch on your shoulder. Even OCS candidates and late-stage ROTC cadets can pass Ranger training.

Like passing Basic Training (which practically anyone with a T-count above 5 can do) you are disciplined and sharpened once you arrive at your actual unit. Then the fun begins. The Infantry is still entirely male; I noticed none of the hysteria mentioned here and my brothers still in can confirm it's still that way in the infantry. If you're a different MOS (supply, transport, any pogue job) the faggotry and gender-sensitivity PowerPoint presentations don't speak for the 11B's who do the heavy lifting on deployment.

Those two women are token examples, and from my experience dealing with Army training bureaucracy, were paper-pushed through. To be "recycled" is to be a fuck up. You're in bad shape. There's absolutely no way in hell those two were recycled twice and passed with flying colors on the third try. Easy_C did indeed call it early.

[Easy_C]

(08-18-2015 08:37 AM)Blick Mang Wrote:  

The Ranger tab (earned after passing the training) means jack shit. It means you're "certified" with that level of training and nothing else. Unless you're assigned to the 75th Ranger Regiment it's nothing more than a velcro patch on your shoulder. Even OCS candidates and late-stage ROTC cadets can pass Ranger training.

Careful, you're going to get flamed into a burnt crisp by all the people who worship ranger school.

[Geomann180]

(08-18-2015 09:13 AM)Easy_C Wrote:  

(08-18-2015 08:37 AM)Blick Mang Wrote:  

The Ranger tab (earned after passing the training) means jack shit. It means you're "certified" with that level of training and nothing else. Unless you're assigned to the 75th Ranger Regiment it's nothing more than a velcro patch on your shoulder. Even OCS candidates and late-stage ROTC cadets can pass Ranger training.

Careful, you're going to get flamed into a burnt crisp by all the people who worship ranger school.

Better sleep with a fire extinguisher under your pillow, Blick Mang.

G

[lskdfjldsf]

Haha will do. You know what I'm getting at though - there's a difference between Ranger certification and being an actual Ranger in the Regiment. It's easy to think these two women who passed will be doing REAL Ranger shit, not necessarily the case.

[JacksonRev]

(08-18-2015 09:13 AM)Easy_C Wrote:  

(08-18-2015 08:37 AM)Blick Mang Wrote:  

The Ranger tab (earned after passing the training) means jack shit. It means you're "certified" with that level of training and nothing else. Unless you're assigned to the 75th Ranger Regiment it's nothing more than a velcro patch on your shoulder. Even OCS candidates and late-stage ROTC cadets can pass Ranger training.

Careful, you're going to get flamed into a burnt crisp by all the people who worship ranger school.

Ranger School, so easy a woman can do it.

The Officer Training Course for the Marines is now officially harder than Ranger School. The Marines will never let them live this down.

[Geomann180]

(08-18-2015 10:03 AM)Blick Mang Wrote:  

Haha will do. You know what I'm getting at though - there's a difference between Ranger certification and being an actual Ranger in the Regiment. It's easy to think these two women who passed will be doing REAL Ranger shit, not necessarily the case.

Hopefully, one of those officers is smart enough to use sleight of hand so that passing Ranger school and the media storm is distracting enough that nobody gets to wise to that.

G

[vinman]

(08-18-2015 10:08 AM)kleyau Wrote:  

(08-18-2015 09:13 AM)Easy_C Wrote:  

(08-18-2015 08:37 AM)Blick Mang Wrote:  

The Ranger tab (earned after passing the training) means jack shit. It means you're "certified" with that level of training and nothing else. Unless you're assigned to the 75th Ranger Regiment it's nothing more than a velcro patch on your shoulder. Even OCS candidates and late-stage ROTC cadets can pass Ranger training.

Careful, you're going to get flamed into a burnt crisp by all the people who worship ranger school.

Ranger School, so easy a woman can do it.

The Officer Training Course for the Marines is now officially harder than Ranger School. The Marines will never let them live this down.

To my eternal fucking shame.....

[Foolsgo1d]

Would Rangers accept women long enough for them to be in danger on the battlefield?

[Easy_C]

There will be. I honestly believe that the reason this is a big deal is the perceived prestige of Ranger School/SEAL/SF. Best way I can put it is... in the business world, it's a big talking point that Goldman Sachs, Bain Consulting, Amazon, Google, etc. don't have enough women in the company.

On the other hand, nobody complains that there aren't enough women working in plumbing, road construction, or oil fields.

All are lucrative jobs. In fact in many cases the starting salaries in the second categories will exceed the corporate jobs mentioned and also have a higher growth rate, with the exception of those who rise high enough to become upper level managers (which is typically <5% of those who come into those companies).

The difference? The jobs mentioned are ones that are perceived as being highly prestigious, whereas running a plumbing company is one that people think of as a "dirty job"......nevermind that the owner/manager probably isn't getting his hands dirty and can have take home earnings of hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. In fact one NCO I worked with went that route and is now making over 300,000 annually take home AFTER the split with his partner.

I've yet to hear a single person complain about women being "under represented" in that kind of company despite the fact that the profession is over 95% male dominated.

[Grit]

You need to read the Facebook post linked above.

A major general stepped in to 'pass' the women when the lower ranked Ranger instructors had already failed the women multiple times. That's blatant corruption and needs to be shouted from the rooftops.

[Easy_C]

If you're talking to me I POSTED the damn link above.

In other news someone claiming to be the RN Training BN XO is now stating that there was no walkthrough, that the females were not given additional pass attempts, and that it's false the president will be visiting the graduation....also no facts "matter" because you're all bigots that can't be persuaded anyway.

[Paracelsus]

(08-19-2015 06:07 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  

If you're talking to me I POSTED the damn link above.

In other news someone claiming to be the RN Training BN XO is now stating that there was no walkthrough, that the females were not given additional pass attempts, and that it's false the president will be visiting the graduation....also no facts "matter" because you're all bigots that can't be persuaded anyway.

John Reed had some relevant commentary on that.

Quote:

I give these two women credit for being willing to try to become rangers, although not for brains. My article on ranger school says not to go there. It is mainly masochism, not training, and they kill a whole lot of students there so the survivors can use the deaths to brag about how tough they are.

But there is some evidence that the two women graduating day after tomorrow were ordered to be passed and may not have made it fair and square. It may also be they did make it fair and square and their male fellow students and instructors sabotaged them which needed to be overridden. You cannot trust the Army to tell the truth. The real truth will probably come out on the Internet.

A reader of my Facebook page said she personally knows the woman in the photo and that she legitimately earned the ranger tab and that the West Point class of the female ranger student will also say she deserved the tab. Here is my response:

Good to hear. But like blacks who actually would have succeeded without affirmative action, the Army has managed to cast a cloud over these women’s accomplishment with:

• suspicious command interest in the matter

• Obama attending graduation

• a general as a lane grader

• three tries at Darby

• extra practice before the school

I would also note that knowing her outside of ranger school and her classmates’ endorsement are NOT dispositive.

One of the great revelations of ranger school was that West Point classmates whom WE thought we knew were revealed to be worthless at Ranger School. Two of our classmates refused to carry the very heavy radio or machine gun when it was their turn in one of the patrols I led. They had no reason. They just refused like two-year-olds. Both wore a bunch of stripes senior year meaning they were highly regarded as cadets.

Two of our classmates deliberately sabotaged one of my patrols. I was astonished. I did not think West Pointers would do such thing regardless of whether they liked you or not. These were guys I never knew at West Point and to whom I never spoke in my life before the school or at it except in the line of duty. I still graduated from ranger school and got recommended to be brought back as instructor. To this day I have no idea why those guys did that. It was dishonorable and both wear a ring with the word “honor” engraved on it.

Another of our classmates, there in my ranger class, but not in my patrol, kept “fainting,” or so he claimed. Time and again, his ranger classmates had to carry him and his rifle and pack during the patrols. You cannot imagine, unless you went through the school, how horrible just having to carry your own pack was, let alone carrying a body of a guy who is faking loss of consciousness and all his equipment. I was surprised his ranger mates did not throw him off a cliff in the mountains.

Another of our classmates in my patrol at Ranger lost it one night in the mountains going down hill. He had been a respected star man at West Point. But that night, he went nuts urging all of us to stop and refuse to go any further. He had become convinced we were walking down a mountain in a stream bed which I will not explain, but it is really bad. We had to sort of grab him by the lapels and remind him we were Army officers in training and out there in the dark way to the north was a place called the Pentagon and they were going to court martial his ass for mutiny if the lane grader got wind of what he was saying. He sobered up.

Another of our classmates at ranger in my patrol lost it in a super hot long march at Camp Darby. He started to swing his rifle around in circles and rambled crazily. I thought, and still think, he was faking to get medevacked and taken to the air-conditioned hospital where he would get lots of cold water. He got his wish. He later was decorated for bravery in Vietnam.

You would think after going through four years of West Point together, you would know a guy. But Ranger School, which is a whole new level of stress and pain and deprivation from West Point, revealed that was NOT the case for maybe a dozen West Point classmates in my ranger class and there was another ranger class of equal size with the other half of our West Point classmates. I would also add being in a joint business venture that loses money also reveals things about West Point classmates that you would never have dreamed.

None of this proves the female rangers who are about to be awarded the ranger tab did not deserve to pass Ranger School. But it does prove, in my mind, that merely knowing them outside of ranger school—even as a West Point classmate—does not necessarily jibe with how they conducted themselves in the stress of ranger school.

The US Navy has been down this road before with its first female naval aviator. In that case, they managed to get said first female naval aviator killed due to a combination of pressure on her and inadequate training.

[Suits]

(08-20-2015 06:38 AM)Paracelsus Wrote:  

John Reed had some relevant commentary on that.

Quote:

Another of our classmates in my patrol at Ranger lost it one night in the mountains going down hill. He had been a respected star man at West Point. But that night, he went nuts urging all of us to stop and refuse to go any further. He had become convinced we were walking down a mountain in a stream bed which I will not explain, but it is really bad. We had to sort of grab him by the lapels and remind him we were Army officers in training and out there in the dark way to the north was a place called the Pentagon and they were going to court martial his ass for mutiny if the lane grader got wind of what he was saying. He sobered up.

Can someone explain this?

[Easy_C]

It's a delusion caused by extreme lack of sleep in ranger training. One of my cadre had a story about a guy who walked up to a tree and tried to put change in it, thinking it was a vending machine. I've experienced it myself after about 2-1/2 weeks of 4 hours of sleep per night. We were walking around on a patrol in broad daylight and I remember seeing a night sky full of stars....nevermind that the forest was still lit up like it was daytime.

[mbare]

This just in: http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/...uffera9312

"The Navy is planning to open its elite SEAL teams to women who can pass the grueling training regimen, the service's top officer said Tuesday in an exclusive interview.

Adm. Jon Greenert said he and the head of Naval Special Warfare Command, Rear Adm. Brian Losey, believe that if women can pass the legendary six-month Basic Underwater Demolition/SEAL training, they should be allowed to serve.

"Why shouldn't anybody who can meet these [standards] be accepted? And the answer is, there is no reason," Greenert said Tuesday in an exclusive interview with Navy Times and its sister publication Defense News. "So we're on a track to say, 'Hey look, anybody who can meet the gender non-specific standards, then you can become a SEAL.'"

The push to integrate the storied SEAL brotherhood is coming on the heels of a comprehensive review led by Losey, the head of Naval Special Warfare Command, that recommended women be allowed under the same exacting standards required of male candidates. Final approval is still pending. The Army and Air Force are also moving to open all combat jobs to women, according to officials who spoke to the Associated Press. It's believed the Marine Corps may seek to keep its ground combat jobs, including the infantry, male-only."


It's so insane to me these top officers, and other officials think if a woman passes Special Warfare physical requirements, then they MUST be the exact same in all other areas. They pass, and they're basically the same as a guy!? Where does it end and what kind of untended consequences will occur. It's interesting to me that in this article, they didn't interview or didn't include any opinions from ACTUAL Navy SEALS. I'm curious as to their opinion on the subject.

[Samseau]

Here's the real problem: the women won't pass, so then they'll lower the standards so they can get into the SEALs.

[Paracelsus]

I'm more interested which branches and units women choose to serve in, or rather where they're put. While a quick Google search reveals a lot of bragging by the US armed forces' bureaucracy that "women serve in 95% of positions," it's a lot harder to find out what proportions and where. One woman serving among 2,000 men in a heavy ordnance unit is a ticked box, not a demonstration that women want or are brave enough to serve in large numbers across the military (as men, demonstrably, do).

I've also heard anecdotally of a lot of women in the military getting themselves pregnant when the chances were high of them going overseas. Any truth to that?

[MKDAWUSS]

What does this (women in combat) say about today's men?

[Yatagan]

(08-20-2015 12:13 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Here's the real problem: the women won't pass, so then they'll lower the standards so they can get into the SEALs.

Yep, and like we've seen with Kara Hultgreen in the Navy in the early 90s, the politicos and military higher ups don't care how incompetent/inept these women are or who gets killed, they want their results no matter what.

[JacksonRev]

(08-20-2015 08:58 PM)Paracelsus Wrote:  

I've also heard anecdotally of a lot of women in the military getting themselves pregnant when the chances were high of them going overseas. Any truth to that?

Yes. On my deployments we had between 20% to 40% pregnancy rates before deployments. Women are cancerous to unit moral, deployability, and effectiveness. Nursing and admin in separate units is how an operationally efficient military would place its women, if it was a military focused on winning instead of the feels.