[Taco Illusionist]

Yes, of course they can.

Alpha is a mindset.

Your actions do not determine your mindset, rather your mindset determines your actions. i.e. As you think you shall become.

If you have a bold, confident, competitive mindset and are not intimidated by other masculine men, chances are you will gravitate towards competitive sports because this is something that naturally appeals to you.

Simply participating in said sports doesn't make you alpha/beta. To believe so would be to confuse cause and effect.

Playing competitive sports does not make you Alpha, having Alpha habits and traits will make you inclined to play competitive sports.

[Cobra]

Interesting post Dantes. I'm surprised I didn't comment earlier.

It's more than just mental toughness and some type of "alpha" mindset. I hope no one fools themselves with this.

No theoretical "alpha" mindset is going to help you. It's a lot more about how you convert that "mental toughness" into a "risk taking" mindset and pure action. I have not yet met ANY ALPHAS that haven't lived or grown up in some type of "in your face" competitive environment (e.g. sports, military, poor neighborhoods, masculine jobs like construction etc.). I have, however, met many "highly educated" men that are extremely smart but can't handle themselves socially if their life depended on it.

That brings me to my next point. A correlation can obviously be seen in some "education focused" cultures and lack of alpha behavior as well to further add some color to this. It's a rather sociological component that is highly overlooked. I mean if the community and/or parents value studying math or science more than physical and competitive sports, the kid isn't growing up with proper masculine guidance, no matter what cluture. I'm not saying this behavior is exclusive to ethnicity or certain cultures but also prevalent in segmented sub cultures within the United States (e.g. some Orthodox Jewish ones). The men that grow up from these cultures one day wonder why they can't get girls just by being "themselves" like their mom said. Having an "alpha mindset" at that point isn't going to wash away all that social programming quickly.

So I disagree that some "alpha mindset" will make you inclined to play sports. Some people don't get programmed with the option of that mindset; but that doesn't mean they shouldn't play competitive sports or do something masculine once they figure it out. I know way too many people that realized this later, then switched paths and eventually became successful.

[dispenser]

(08-17-2015 06:38 AM)Dantes Wrote:  

Can men develop their Alpha self and masculinity as youngsters without playing competitive sports? Sure you can excel in academics, music, and art, but does it really give you the same masculine confidence? I venture to say no but I am curious on what others have to say.

I'll be blunt. This is sentimental nonsense.
Locker room bro-hood and the sharing of pizzas is pretty well irrelevant to vagina lubrication.

An alpha is a man whose exceptional behaviour attracts women. Exceptional behaviour. He is an exception.
If there were only five men in existence, the five men could not all be alphas. Only one could dominate. Only one could be the exception.

The captain of the team is the alpha of the team by default. For those who don't have the ability or inclination to be the captain, joining a team is a bad deal, unless this team comes with automatic prestige.

In the stone age, the ability to be "captain" was crucial to alpha status. Other males of the tribe laughed at his jokes and tried not to get murdered by him; women he didn't like were left over for the betas, the seconds in command. Odds were he had fucked them at some point, and nobody was ever fully certain who fathered whom. Occasionally they ganged together and murdered the chief, who was usually quite a bit older than them, and possibly even their father. Then the band of betas formed their own pecking order, and the strongest beta gradually became the new tyrant. The sons of the old tyrant mature. The cycle repeats.

A sports team, far from being some primeval institution, far from being some kind of model of society, is basically a stone age tribe with actual alpha-beta conflict surgically removed. It's a neutered tribe and not at all representative of real world conflict within a tribe, the struggle between alphas and betas.

As an expression of masculine instincts, it reflects the very limited period of time when betas worked together to murder their father-chief, or when one tribe attacked another and murdered its entire male population. Reality is not heartwarming or friendly.

Fittingly, team sports were unknown or ignored in societies with actual hierarchies.
Ancient Greece focussed on single combat, solo sports like discus throwing, sports with only one winner such as chariot racing, wrestling, etc.
Medieval Europe has its jousts, races, duels, not so much as a peep of football. All one on one.

Team sports are a revival of the primeval "beta band" or "murderous chode cluster" if you will. No wonder democratic societies love them so much. Everybody can win together...

[Cobra]

(01-07-2016 09:59 AM)dispenser Wrote:  

(08-17-2015 06:38 AM)Dantes Wrote:  

Can men develop their Alpha self and masculinity as youngsters without playing competitive sports? Sure you can excel in academics, music, and art, but does it really give you the same masculine confidence? I venture to say no but I am curious on what others have to say.

I'll be blunt. This is sentimental nonsense.
Locker room bro-hood and the sharing of pizzas is pretty well irrelevant to vagina lubrication.

An alpha is a man whose exceptional behaviour attracts women. Exceptional behaviour. He is an exception.
If there were only five men in existence, the five men could not all be alphas. Only one could dominate. Only one could be the exception.

The captain of the team is the alpha of the team by default. For those who don't have the ability or inclination to be the captain, joining a team is a bad deal, unless this team comes with automatic prestige.

In the stone age, the ability to be "captain" was crucial to alpha status. Other males of the tribe laughed at his jokes and tried not to get murdered by him; women he didn't like were left over for the betas, the seconds in command. Odds were he had fucked them at some point, and nobody was ever fully certain who fathered whom. Occasionally they ganged together and murdered the chief, who was usually quite a bit older than them, and possibly even their father. Then the band of betas formed their own pecking order, and the strongest beta gradually became the new tyrant. The sons of the old tyrant mature. The cycle repeats.

A sports team, far from being some primeval institution, far from being some kind of model of society, is basically a stone age tribe with actual alpha-beta conflict surgically removed. It's a neutered tribe and not at all representative of real world conflict within a tribe, the struggle between alphas and betas.

As an expression of masculine instincts, it reflects the very limited period of time when betas worked together to murder their father-chief, or when one tribe attacked another and murdered its entire male population. Reality is not heartwarming or friendly.

Fittingly, team sports were unknown or ignored in societies with actual hierarchies.
Ancient Greece focussed on single combat, solo sports like discus throwing, sports with only one winner such as chariot racing, wrestling, etc.
Medieval Europe has its jousts, races, duels, not so much as a peep of football. All one on one.

Team sports are a revival of the primeval "beta band" or "murderous chode cluster" if you will. No wonder democratic societies love them so much. Everybody can win together...

I'm curious. Have you played competitive sports or have any experience with them?

Looking forward to your response.

[MdWanderer]

(08-17-2015 08:50 AM)Nascimento Wrote:  

I've played a variety of sports for many years. For those who don't play anything at the moment, I strongly recommend you take up basketball as a starting point. You can practice on your own and get better quickly. Challenge others to 1 on 1's. Lose over and over until you win. Before you know it you'll be pulling your weight in a full game of pickup. It's exhilarating.

I concur totally with this. I'm still not that good at basketball but I can beat guys easily who at near my level or below on average. Most of the guys who beat me played basketball their whole lives. I only played basketball on a team once in 5th grade, and warmed the bench 99% of the time (I was the slowest and least coordinated guy on the team), but played a lot of pickup games and became competent enough to score regularly on my high school intramural team.

[dispenser]

(01-07-2016 11:00 AM)Cobra Wrote:  

I'm curious. Have you played competitive sports or have any experience with them?

Looking forward to your response.

I've never played or taken any interest, as you have already correctly inferred.

"Supporting" a team. Never could wrap my head around the mystical connection that entails, the self-hypnosis that allows people to pretend they achieved something when a team they decided they like handles its balls well.
If a player does nothing but jog around a field, tensing his legs and darting his eyes, and his team wins without his contribution, why does he feel pride?
While I don't take interest in sports, I can understand and respect a solo competitor's pride and commitment.
But teams are just beyond me. It's like watching ants, or a congregation.

[Dr. Kahn]

This is highly flawed.

This is an american mindset that is obsessively focused on dichotomies: brain vs brawn; black vs white, etc.

Spend some time interacting with Africans or Arabs. Just because they study all day to become medical doctors doesn't mean they are not aggressive with a solid alpha mindset.

Education is over-emphasized in their culture, at the same time they can be aggressive with a take-no-shit, extremely proud mentality.

.

(01-07-2016 09:58 AM)Cobra Wrote:  

Interesting post Dantes. I'm surprised I didn't comment earlier.

It's more than just mental toughness and some type of "alpha" mindset. I hope no one fools themselves with this.

No theoretical "alpha" mindset is going to help you. It's a lot more about how you convert that "mental toughness" into a "risk taking" mindset and pure action. I have not yet met ANY ALPHAS that haven't lived or grown up in some type of "in your face" competitive environment (e.g. sports, military, poor neighborhoods, masculine jobs like construction etc.). I have, however, met many "highly educated" men that are extremely smart but can't handle themselves socially if their life depended on it.

That brings me to my next point. A correlation can obviously be seen in some "education focused" cultures and lack of alpha behavior as well to further add some color to this. It's a rather sociological component that is highly overlooked. I mean if the community and/or parents value studying math or science more than physical and competitive sports, the kid isn't growing up with proper masculine guidance, no matter what cluture. I'm not saying this behavior is exclusive to ethnicity or certain cultures but also prevalent in segmented sub cultures within the United States (e.g. some Orthodox Jewish ones). The men that grow up from these cultures one day wonder why they can't get girls just by being "themselves" like their mom said. Having an "alpha mindset" at that point isn't going to wash away all that social programming quickly.

So I disagree that some "alpha mindset" will make you inclined to play sports. Some people don't get programmed with the option of that mindset; but that doesn't mean they shouldn't play competitive sports or do something masculine once they figure it out. I know way too many people that realized this later, then switched paths and eventually became successful.

[la bodhisattva]

African and Arab cultures over-emphasize education? What specific regions within these cultures do you see a preponderance of academic pursuits? From my reading of history, philosophy, sciences, and intellectualism have not been strengths in these regions for centuries.

Based on your handle and conspicuous lower case use of "american" versus your use of "Africans and Arabs," I have doubts about your intentions here.

[John Michael Kane]

There's too much arguing over semantics in this thread. Suffice it to say that men should play competitive sports throughout their lives, but especially from an early age.

Keep in mind that team work, physical exertion, competition, leadership and many other masculine skills can be learned from team sports.

If you're not in a team sport, join the local gym and play pickup games with other guys for basketball, join a baseball team, etc.

It is a great outlet for your social life, even as an adult. Play to win. I accidentally broke my brother's tooth while going up for a rebound, and broke my ankle while blocking another guy's shot. If you aren't getting hurt once in a while, you aren't trying hard enough.

[h3ltrsk3ltr]

I'd say that maybe an artist-type might be able to pull off the "alpha" status without having been in sports but I think competition and feedback and a sense of fighting for first place is essential for being masculine.

[Atticus]

delete

[Atticus]

(01-07-2016 07:47 PM)Dr. Kahn Wrote:  

This is highly flawed.

This is an american mindset that is obsessively focused on dichotomies: brain vs brawn; black vs white, etc.

Spend some time interacting with Africans or Arabs. Just because they study all day to become medical doctors doesn't mean they are not aggressive with a solid alpha mindset.

Education is over-emphasized in their culture, at the same time they can be aggressive with a take-no-shit, extremely proud mentality.

.

(01-07-2016 09:58 AM)Cobra Wrote:  

Interesting post Dantes. I'm surprised I didn't comment earlier.

It's more than just mental toughness and some type of "alpha" mindset. I hope no one fools themselves with this.

No theoretical "alpha" mindset is going to help you. It's a lot more about how you convert that "mental toughness" into a "risk taking" mindset and pure action. I have not yet met ANY ALPHAS that haven't lived or grown up in some type of "in your face" competitive environment (e.g. sports, military, poor neighborhoods, masculine jobs like construction etc.). I have, however, met many "highly educated" men that are extremely smart but can't handle themselves socially if their life depended on it.

That brings me to my next point. A correlation can obviously be seen in some "education focused" cultures and lack of alpha behavior as well to further add some color to this. It's a rather sociological component that is highly overlooked. I mean if the community and/or parents value studying math or science more than physical and competitive sports, the kid isn't growing up with proper masculine guidance, no matter what cluture. I'm not saying this behavior is exclusive to ethnicity or certain cultures but also prevalent in segmented sub cultures within the United States (e.g. some Orthodox Jewish ones). The men that grow up from these cultures one day wonder why they can't get girls just by being "themselves" like their mom said. Having an "alpha mindset" at that point isn't going to wash away all that social programming quickly.

So I disagree that some "alpha mindset" will make you inclined to play sports. Some people don't get programmed with the option of that mindset; but that doesn't mean they shouldn't play competitive sports or do something masculine once they figure it out. I know way too many people that realized this later, then switched paths and eventually became successful.

It took a while but then the penny dropped. Thank you, that was a good one.

[Dr. Kahn]

Clearly some of you were neither in engineering programs nor went to med school, to see the excellent grades of the Arabs or African students in these programs. And how alpha as fuck these Arabs and Africans student are.

Intellectual activity or lack off; has zero to do with alpha characteristics.

Academic programmes are intensively competitive. Especially at elite schools. So touting the competitiveness of sports as the reason why sports makes you alpha is ridiculous, because hard science academic programs at elite schools are brutally competitively. So much so, that at least one student every year commit suicide by jumping off the bridge at my school. That is the level of pressure you have to deal with. Do you have idea the kind of pressure cooker i am talking about?

This whole idea that sports makes you a man, while studying hard doesn't, is so pathetic. Is a very american mindset.

The reality is that working in hard sciences requires greater mental discipline, focus, patience, teamwork(paradoxically, also the ability to also work independently), denying yourself instant gratification, long-term thinking, rationally processing information, etcetera -- All characteristics of a full grown man -- all these character traits are needed to study and excel at hard science subject. Study is hard work. Studying hard instill these values in you. Far harder and more challenging than playing some sports.

Academic is SUPREMELY MORE ALPHA than sports.

[HrundiBakshi]

Well this seems as good a thread for a first post as any other. We all sort of know what Alpha is when we see it, the trouble is some of us seem to see it at different times.

To me Nelson Mandela was probably Alpha, yet Adolf Hitler was not. To me Joe Frazier was probably Alpha, Muhammad Ali was not.
To me Alpha is a man who carries about him an air of immutable authority. He does not have to be a leader of men, but commands the respect of other men. In my life (I'm batting 50) I have probably encountered 3 men who I would describe as Alpha. My best guess is that the crucible of Alphas is hardship. I have a suspicion that isolation or at least space can help.

The likelihood is that by definition most Alphas in the States probably come out of the blue collar or underprivileged areas.

Earlier I said probably when talking about Mandela and Frazier the reason for this is that reputation does not tell the full story, you really have to meet an Alpha to know he is one. By definition (mine anyway) success with the ladies is irrelevant. There is a million ways to skin the pussy, the Alpha blokes I met had to hide from them to the point they weren't even interested. The ladies knew they were Alpha by the deference from other men. To a certain extent perceptions might be determined by location. I have a suspicion that a man like Sitting Bull was Alpha in the Wild West but not when he was in Bill Hickocks show.

I don't think team sports or combat (my father tells the story of a VC winner he fought with in WW11, where until the fighting first began everyone thought he was dickhead, once the fighting started a fearless slaughterer of Japanese emerged from the scruffy derelict) can make an Alpha though it cannot hurt them.

I get the feeling that my definition of Alpha is different from a lot of others. It seems the consensus is that Alpha is in the words of Jeremy Clarkson, "a winner", with the gorgeous wife, the big house, the centre of the male social circle, and that's fair enough, but believe me there is another class above that guy and you will know it when you meet him.

[Guitarman]

I don't think you can ever truly categorise a man as all alpha or beta. There are degrees of alphaness that can be gained by self improvement. Apart from some men who are are just natural alphas. Donald Trump for example. James Bond ( if he was a real man).

The rest of us can self improve but never quite get to Trump standards of Alphaness.

[The Father]

"Can males be Alpha if they have not played competitive sports? "

Some alpha "males" never play sports...male lions for example. Male gorillas. Very alpha. Never played team sports. What "male" species are you referring to? Human "males"? We're called MEN. I don't what it is lately, but adult humans that have a penis are called MEN. Got it? Men. Not "males". And humans with tits and a vajayjay are women, broads, cunts, girls, sistahs... whatever is most descriptive. But not "females". The feminists started this "males are so ___________!" thing years ago. And pussified millennials picked up on it. My DOG is a "male"...I am a MAN.

[ball dont lie]

(01-08-2016 07:43 PM)The Father Wrote:  

"Can males be Alpha if they have not played competitive sports? "

Some alpha "males" never play sports...male lions for example. Male gorillas. Very alpha. Never played team sports. What "male" species are you referring to? Human "males"? We're called MEN. I don't what it is lately, but adult humans that have a penis are called MEN. Got it? Men. Not "males". And humans with tits and a vajayjay are women, broads, cunts, girls, sistahs... whatever is most descriptive. But not "females". The feminists started this "males are so ___________!" thing years ago. And pussified millennials picked up on it. My DOG is a "male"...I am a MAN.

Fighting to the death is not team sports, but that's a crucible I hope I never have to go through. Completely disagree. Lions fight for their genetic offspring. Losing means the next leader of the pack kills his children and fucks his females to create new children. If that's not alpha then the word has no meaning.

I never feel as alive as I when boxed or when I play full court basketball. Not even when Im putting myself out there in front of an auditorium of 600 people giving a lecture or walking up to a hot a girl in a bar.

Trial by fire has always been a good way to measure a man. It always will be. My grandfather was a paratrooper in WWII and he was as masculine a man as I have ever met.

[Dantes]

I am surprised to see this thread still going.

If you read the original post, I was reflecting on my younger years and how sports were an important part of my development as a man. Sports fostered the development of important masculine traits in my formative years, among them:

Dealing with adversity
Resilience
Discipline
Confidence
Leadership

The title of the thread doesn't really completely encapsulate my reflection but I am glad it generated discussion.

[The Father]

(01-09-2016 07:19 AM)ball dont lie Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 07:43 PM)The Father Wrote:  

"Can males be Alpha if they have not played competitive sports? "

Some alpha "males" never play sports...male lions for example. Male gorillas. Very alpha. Never played team sports. What "male" species are you referring to? Human "males"? We're called MEN. I don't what it is lately, but adult humans that have a penis are called MEN. Got it? Men. Not "males". And humans with tits and a vajayjay are women, broads, cunts, girls, sistahs... whatever is most descriptive. But not "females". The feminists started this "males are so ___________!" thing years ago. And pussified millennials picked up on it. My DOG is a "male"...I am a MAN.

Fighting to the death is not team sports, but that's a crucible I hope I never have to go through. Completely disagree. Lions fight for their genetic offspring. Losing means the next leader of the pack kills his children and fucks his females to create new children. If that's not alpha then the word has no meaning.

I never feel as alive as I when boxed or when I play full court basketball. Not even when Im putting myself out there in front of an auditorium of 600 people giving a lecture or walking up to a hot a girl in a bar.

Trial by fire has always been a good way to measure a man. It always will be. My grandfather was a paratrooper in WWII and he was as masculine a man as I have ever met.

Wasn't opining on wildlife, per se. Was just saying I don't like it when people say "males" and "females" instead of men and women. I now realize that perhaps my post was too strident. Apologies to the OP for that. I had a bad day due to thread-6742-...pid1187411

[The Father]

(01-09-2016 08:24 AM)Dantes Wrote:  

I am surprised to see this thread still going.

If you read the original post, I was reflecting on my younger years and how sports were an important part of my development as a man. Sports fostered the development of important masculine traits in my formative years, among them:

Dealing with adversity
Resilience
Discipline
Confidence
Leadership

The title of the thread doesn't really completely encapsulate my reflection but I am glad it generated discussion.

Yes. I'm sorry if I distracted from your original point, which is an interesting one.