[Meat Head]

I used to think that women would be flattered when I busted moves on them and told them I loved them. They dont care how you feel about them.

Men love women. Women love children. And children love pets.

[EDantes]

(07-26-2015 03:36 PM)Feldeinsamkeit Wrote:  

Here in the UK, it is not uncommon in my part of the country (NE England - near Middlesbrough) to see even the most ugly, overweight woman with a guy. Furthermore, I'm seeing ever more younger guys who are tall, i.e. at least 6 ft and in good physical shape, dating women that are around the same age but much lower on the attractiveness scale, mostly on account of their being hambeasts par excellence. It's obvious from this phenomenon that the dating market is heavily - pun intended - tilted towards women and I know from personal experience that there are quite a few incel guys who even the planetary sized girls don't want to touch with a bargepole. As an older man, I can still just about remember the time when fat girls would have struggled to get even beta boyfriends and would have had to settle for their equivalent sooner or later; those days now seem like but a very distant and almost utopian past in comparison to the dystopic dating scene of today.

One thing I've often wondered about, though, is how aware women are of the incel issue amongst men. Given how many dating options even the slim plain Janes and the frumps have at their disposal, do they ever stop to reflect what the implications of this are for men, i.e. that there is a sizeable surplus of guys left on the dating market unable to find even a fatty to date? As I'm not privy to the conversation of women, I really can only speculate here, although it would be fascinating to know what - if anything - women think on this matter. Has anybody on here ever been a fly on the wall overhearing females discussing this issue?

Probably part of it is because of the rise of obesity, which is higher in women than men, any woman who isn't at least 20 lbs overweight is immediately perceived as "super hot" just because she isn't obese.

I think that's why I also see the beauty standards falling even among non-obese women, such as comparing the beauty pageants of today with those in the 1950s or so, in which women had much more well-proportioned figures. While today all she pretty much as to do is not eat a freaking rhino every day and betas will automatically view her as a beauty queen.

In fairness though, I think the same is true with guys but to a lesser degree. I'm slim and keep myself in good shape, but I'm fairly skinny and not jacked, and don't lift very often - and i often run into girls in the 1-6/10 range or so who just fawn over me like I'm a greek God; even though back in the 1950s and before half of the guys you see are either fat fucks, or skinny hipster goofs, I'd probably just be seen as an fairly average Joe with marginal good looks at best.

[Skank_Hunt]

(02-09-2017 01:54 PM)Feldeinsamkeit Wrote:  

As for the 5% of top shelf guys who get a free pass to the pussy with the rest having to prove themselves through Game, I think this is on the money, at least with guys living in the Western hemisphere.

Excluding examples of extreme fame (e.g. Justin Bieber level), you would be surprised how difficult even top 5% guys find it in the west nowadays. Feminism, careers, obesity, celebration of personality disorders, celebration of dykes, body mutilation, single mothers FRAs, man hating etc. etc. ... All these things have taken huge chunks off the supply of hot girls. Not just that, but hot girls aside the overall average has decreased, because even average to decent looking girls have been removed from supply as well. Thus a country can fool you into thinking there are enough hot girls to get a passable rate of return, just because there are some hot and decent girls, but in reality, there are probably 10x fewer than there needs to be for the market to be anywhere near reasonable. The top 5% of men may be doing relatively well, but they are not immune from the severe supply constraints that happen around them. I have known a surprisingly large amount of genuine top 5% guys and compared to your average r9k incel they are having a ball, but on an absolute level, they can experience surprising amounts of rejection and difficulty in the west, only increasing as the market gets worse over time. Often it's a case of "grass is greener" thinking; I would say that the grass is obviously greener if you're in the top 5% in the west, but temper it with a caveat that, while greener, as you observe it more closely, the grass is not as green as one would think.

[Steve McQueen]

I disagree with some of the observations about having to be in the top 5%

I am an office monkey like a lot here Im sure, what I notice is that its barmen, DJ, fitness instructor type jobs that women tend to perceive as high value these days, not a steady 9-5. Also having access to illegal drugs helps a lot aswell.

Guy I know at work is the janitor but also the drug dealer, hes perceived as the cool guy, gets laid often.

Opened my eyes a lot watching him operate, he has the ugly chicks talk him up to the hot chicks and once social nights come around the war has already been won for him, all he has to do is show up.

Adapt or go extinct

[Kid Twist]

(02-10-2017 12:36 PM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  

(02-09-2017 01:54 PM)Feldeinsamkeit Wrote:  

As for the 5% of top shelf guys who get a free pass to the pussy with the rest having to prove themselves through Game, I think this is on the money, at least with guys living in the Western hemisphere.

Excluding examples of extreme fame (e.g. Justin Bieber level), you would be surprised how difficult even top 5% guys find it in the west nowadays. Feminism, careers, obesity, celebration of personality disorders, celebration of dykes, body mutilation, single mothers FRAs, man hating etc. etc. ... All these things have taken huge chunks off the supply of hot girls. Not just that, but hot girls aside the overall average has decreased, because even average to decent looking girls have been removed from supply as well. Thus a country can fool you into thinking there are enough hot girls to get a passable rate of return, just because there are some hot and decent girls, but in reality, there are probably 10x fewer than there needs to be for the market to be anywhere near reasonable. The top 5% of men may be doing relatively well, but they are not immune from the severe supply constraints that happen around them. I have known a surprisingly large amount of genuine top 5% guys and compared to your average r9k incel they are having a ball, but on an absolute level, they can experience surprising amounts of rejection and difficulty in the west, only increasing as the market gets worse over time. Often it's a case of "grass is greener" thinking; I would say that the grass is obviously greener if you're in the top 5% in the west, but temper it with a caveat that, while greener, as you observe it more closely, the grass is not as green as one would think.

This is why Khan's statement previously is correct, but more accurately that a species needs to be maintained through patriarchy and the wisdom it has. Due to the short window of reproduction, with women working and less invested (thus not as hot, young or feminine, and at advanced ages) you successfully narrow the range of true 90th percentile guys. What would have been great traits for the future and reasonable selection in the same fashion becomes diminished probably 50% more, 80-20 becomes 90-10 or 90-10 becomes 95-5.

If you have to work longer and are taxed harder by the globalist, AND your culture says girls age 16-late 20s are out of the picture by work or "creepiness" you have really narrowed any window for those who want to make it secure and actually have a family. What's worse, you'll get a significant number who'll just say F it to the unchaste behaviors of girls, take advantage, then the deteriorating cycle runs out of control

I can't see a stop to this until survival truly comes into the picture, in daily or monthly life. That's the only check on the affluence and feminization part of cultural decline that we're in ...

No one daily protecting or bailing out women will get them home as a better option, in an instant. They already know they'd rather not be working in their 30s. The only ones that try to keep the lie going are the Janet Reno, Kagan, and Sotomayor's of the world that no one ever considered fucking anyway. That's always the challenge, and it won't be enough to hear from a protected person in a black robe when life all of a sudden isn't so easy anymore.

[Khan]

(02-10-2017 01:54 PM)Steve McQueen Wrote:  

I disagree with some of the observations about having to be in the top 5%

I am an office monkey like a lot here Im sure, what I notice is that its barmen, DJ, fitness instructor type jobs that women tend to perceive as high value these days, not a steady 9-5. Also having access to illegal drugs helps a lot aswell.

Guy I know at work is the janitor but also the drug dealer, hes perceived as the cool guy, gets laid often.

Opened my eyes a lot watching him operate, he has the ugly chicks talk him up to the hot chicks and once social nights come around the war has already been won for him, all he has to do is show up.

Adapt or go extinct

The professions you mentioned *are* the top 5% in terms of status.

Don't forget it's women who define what traits make men attractive. 50 years ago, an engineer who worked 9-5 in a tech company was of high status. Today he's merely average, as his place was taken by junkies you mentioned.

By the way I've noticed the same thing with drug dealers and other petty criminals, more often than not they get a lot of female attention.

[BoycottNetflix]

I feel sorry for the next generation of men!

We are lucky but can you imagine if you can't get a root once a year!! Even worst, the government bans prostitution where the man gets charged but not the woman!

[[email protected]]

I think this incel term is not clearly defined. If it's a guy that can't get laid and settles for scraps below his SMV then that's the bottom 80-85% of the male population. Most people are under the impression that incel males are a fringe thing but that isn't the case. This inequality of getting laid is becoming more transparent and visibly understood better with each passing year. When the bottom 80% of men realize how bad the situation is they will shrug and society will gradually come undone. The key is, the bottom 80% still believe they are temporarily embarrassed alphas or that everything will fall into place for them before they are at the age of 3X. They are slowly figuring out this isn't the case.

[debeguiled]

Giving this phenomenon a name has ruined a lot of young men who cling to the term and find themselves a victimhood oriented community that reinforces itself.

Imagine thinking that notfucking is your identity and focusing on it to the exclusion of other things in your life.

Even calling yourself a 40 year old virgin is better than this.

The sense of finality infused in this term is like a fog of hopelessness for people who need encouragement more than anything else.

[Enoch]

(07-09-2018 05:44 AM)[email protected] Wrote:  

I think this incel term is not clearly defined. If it's a guy that can't get laid and settles for scraps below his SMV then that's the bottom 80-85% of the male population. Most people are under the impression that incel males are a fringe thing but that isn't the case. This inequality of getting laid is becoming more transparent and visibly understood better with each passing year. When the bottom 80% of men realize how bad the situation is they will shrug and society will gradually come undone. The key is, the bottom 80% still believe they are temporarily embarrassed alphas or that everything will fall into place for them before they are at the age of 3X. They are slowly figuring out this isn't the case.

OR that the girls that are available to them have more red flags than chinese military parade.

[Syberpunk]

(07-09-2018 05:44 AM)[email protected] Wrote:  

I think this incel term is not clearly defined. If it's a guy that can't get laid and settles for scraps below his SMV then that's the bottom 80-85% of the male population. Most people are under the impression that incel males are a fringe thing but that isn't the case. This inequality of getting laid is becoming more transparent and visibly understood better with each passing year. When the bottom 80% of men realize how bad the situation is they will shrug and society will gradually come undone. The key is, the bottom 80% still believe they are temporarily embarrassed alphas or that everything will fall into place for them before they are at the age of 3X. They are slowly figuring out this isn't the case.

Brutal. Particular the bold.

Top post.

[Cation]

I thought an incel is someone who is not getting any pussy.

[The Catalyst]

I would define incel as someone who hasn't had sexual relations in the past 3(6?) months but would've preferred to.

[Logos]

(02-23-2017 04:23 AM)Khan Wrote:  

[quote='Steve McQueen' pid='1507281' dateline='1486752886']
[b]I disagree with some of the observations about having to be in the top 5%


By the way I've noticed the same thing with drug dealers and other petty criminals, more often than not they get a lot of female attention.

Not just petty criminals. If you killed someone, or better yet, are a serial killer apparently you're drowning in fan letters from women. This puzzled me and I looked into it. Some explain it through the fact that a man that has killed has shown he can protect a woman. Whether that is a full explanation I'm not sure, but it's a fact that guys on death row have no shortage of female admirers.

[Feldeinsamkeit]

(07-09-2018 03:41 PM)The Catalyst Wrote:  

I would define incel as someone who hasn't had sexual relations in the past 3(6?) months but would've preferred to.

Most of the definitions that I've seen, including those featured in research conducted on the sexual activities of heterosexual males, rely on a time frame of one year. Instead of using the word "incel", the category normally measured is those having 0 sexual partners within the specified time frame.

The following graph illustrates a sharp increase in the rate of celebacy amongst unmarried men in the 22-35 rate between the years 2008 and 2016, from 6% to 14%. An important thing to note about this statistic is that it's probably under reporting the real rate of celebacy amongst men in the said cohort, since it's long been acknowledged by statisticians that men tend to exaggerate their sexual success in order to avoid the shame of being regarded as a sexual loser, whilst women tend to do the very opposite, in order to not be labelled a slut.

https://i2.wp.com/fabiusmaximus.com/wp-c....jpg?ssl=1


Now, this data doesn't prove that all of these guys were involuntary celebate, but given the nature of male sexual desire, it is highly likely that the vast majority were, since I've seldom met a guy who was genuinely indifferent to the attractions of pussy and, whenever I did, it's been because he was swimming in abundance, rather than suffering from lack of options.

[The Catalyst]

Welcome back Feld! I feel honored to be the one bringing you back from the dead.

[Delta]

Citing the % of men who are "incel" is a massive understatement of the problem. It's like unemployment vs. underemployment... the barista with a Ph.D doesn't count as "unemployed," but such cases are indicative of the very same problem unemployment attempts to quantify. In terms of the sexual market, the vast majority of single men are the equivalent of "underemployed" in that they can only land women way below their own league with any regularity whatsoever. They're not incel but they're suffering.

And no, women do not have any awareness of this. They think decent guys don't struggle at all and bottom tier guys could easily get laid if they'd only have reasonable standards, i.e. exactly how it is for them. Heck even men who married their first serious gf when they were young have no awareness of this issue.

[jeffreyjerpp]

(07-09-2018 08:38 PM)Delta Wrote:  

Citing the % of men who are "incel" is a massive understatement of the problem. It's like unemployment vs. underemployment... the barista with a Ph.D doesn't count as "unemployed," but such cases are indicative of the very same problem unemployment attempts to quantify. In terms of the sexual market, the vast majority of single men are the equivalent of "underemployed" in that they can only land women way below their own league with any regularity whatsoever. They're not incel but they're suffering.

And no, women do not have any awareness of this. They think decent guys don't struggle at all and bottom tier guys could easily get laid if they'd only have reasonable standards, i.e. exactly how it is for them. Heck even men who married their first serious gf when they were young have no awareness of this issue.

I would argue that the "incel" and underemployment phenomena are two sides of the same coin.

Average men are getting screwed by globohomo corporate world order, and are losing everything because of it.

The actual quality of the economy, communities, women, health, have all been horribly degraded by the GHCWO. Good jobs, good women, and a generally wholesome life are no longer available to almost any men, anywhere in the USA. Even if you have the looks and income to get a woman, she will be a substandard wife and mother. Constantly pulled astray by the degenerate (((media)) and other women. And your income will be sucked away by taxes, inflated real estate prices, etc.

There are some women who understand the plight of men in this regard. However, they don't care, or worse, openly ridicule men as "losers", since women have evolved to submit physically/emotionally to "winners".

As a counterpoint, I was in Eastern Europe recently, and was amazed at how healthy and normal the social climate was. No gays, no diversity, no hook up culture, nothing. Just happy, normal people, trying to have nice lives in cohesive communities, with a strong christian influence.

[Samseau]

(07-10-2018 09:03 AM)jeffreyjerpp Wrote:  

Good jobs, good women, and a generally wholesome life are no longer available to almost any men, anywhere in the USA.

I wouldn't put it that bad, although I agree with your overall post, but it's around 40-50% of men who manage to have a wholesome life in the USA. Nowhere enough to keep the engine running (should be at 80% minimum).

[beta_plus]

Interesting Podcast by Reply All about the origins of the term incel.

link here

While they are as blue pilled as humanly possible, the journalists and the interviewee are still worth listening too.

Main takeaways:

• a lesbian created the term
• she created it in Ontario back in the 90s
• originally it was not derogatory
• it was once a support group
  

While they try to paint the entire manosphere in the worst light possible and I am sure that there are important things that Reply All intentionally ignores , I still found it insightful. If nothing else, it provides further evidence that Ontario's almost uniquely awful dating market for men lead to things like its mens' very noticeable out of proportion contribution to Game 1.0 in the early 2000s.

Though I still don't understand why the spell it incorrectly.

[Thot Leader]

It's the new slur for shaming red-pilled men. Sexist --> misogynist --> incel, and so on. Same shit, different times.

[Feldeinsamkeit]

(07-14-2018 02:31 PM)Thot Leader Wrote:  

It's the new slur for shaming red-pilled men. Sexist --> misogynist --> incel, and so on. Same shit, different times.

Even before this term gained currency in wider society, I'd personally witnessed many a woman who, when faced with an argument they couldn't respond to with reason about either their own conduct or that of other women, would deliver the following ad hominem shiv:"You're just bitter 'cause you can't get laid".

As previously noted, this shit ain't new.

[Repo]

But if your an incel and aren't getting laid, you aren't a red pilled man. Part of the red pill is seeing and understanding women for what they are, and acting accordingly to get what you want. If someone isnt getting laid, then they aren't doing that.

Dislike of females behavior does not equal red pilled, the bar is higher.

[Feldeinsamkeit]

(07-14-2018 03:04 PM)Repo Wrote:  

But if your an incel and aren't getting laid, you aren't a red pilled man. Part of the red pill is seeing and understanding women for what they are, and acting accordingly to get what you want. If someone isnt getting laid, then they aren't doing that.

Dislike of females behavior does not equal red pilled, the bar is higher.

This is an extremely interesting point you raise. So are you saying that being redpill automatically puts a guy into a position that he is always able to act so as to avoid the incel trap? Don't get me wrong, I believe Game is an invaluable toolkit and, further, can - and no doubt actually has - helped to save lives, but to claim that a redpill understanding of women automatically enables one to act in accordance with that knowledge to achieve sexual success seems way too optimistic a hope for many guys, especially those living in the Anglosphere, where even an unwillingness to act on that knowledge isn't the main factor standing in those guys' way. Unless you allow for expatriation to greener pastures as one means of "acting accordingly", that is, I'd have to disagree.

[a beer is enough]

A big reason for this incel problem is the fact that society is overflowing with men. In a lot of cities, single guys outnumber single women almost 2 to 1 when you take into consideration the prime ages for dating and hookups.

People will argue that you can simply "be alpha" and "have game" to get hot girls but when the same girl has been:

1. Flooded with approaches from tons of normal guys.

2. Has a ton of guys in her social circle making the move on her.

3. Gets flooded with messages on dating apps and online dating websites from a bunch of dudes.

Does not matter what their value is, her ego is inflated. Hot girls are not the only ones going through this, so are normal looking girls and occasionally even ugly women. The reason men in past generations did not have to deal with this sort of thing is because a lot of events happened in society that kept the gender ratio stable. Society was never meant to have this many men because it doesn't need a lot of men in the first place, it needs just enough men and an overflow of women. A lot of you will say I am making the same argument as feminists but all of us would prefer a club or bar where there are 10 women to every one man than the other way around.

At its very core, this is the issue, there are just too many guys around and not enough women.

It doesn't matter if there are a lot of guys with high market value or losers and simps, all it takes is a ton of guys to start being thirsty to where women get an inflated ego. If you had a reversal to where women outnumbered men, the game would start to shift in the favor of men and women would be the ones who would have to settle.