[Teedub]

Men are superior in muscle mass, (including the fact that male and female muscle is different in it's denseness - male being more dense), male jaw, male fist size, male bone density (which she cited herself in regards to that tranny) and so on....

That said, I'm 5"10 and about 165 lbs, with intermediate boxing ability...the idea that she could beat me in a wrestling match, with her credentials, is emasculating, but she most likely would win.

But the idea she'd beat Mayweather, a male world class athlete - I'm not convinced.

[blacktree]

Every point has been made, mayweathe would win easily.

[FireStarter]

(07-25-2015 02:45 PM)Wutang Wrote:  

I'm 50/50 on this. Royce Gracie was tapping out guys who outweighed him by 20+ lbs and he was by no means an elite athlete.

Royce was tapping out guys much larger than him because at that stage BJJ was an obscure fighting art. Fighters had no idea what to expect. MMA is no longer obscure and everyone now has at least some idea about it. There is no way Royce would be winning fights against much larger opponents today.

As for Mayweather vs Rousey...
In a boxing match there's no point even discussing who would win. In an MMA match I'd be putting money on Mayweather but there is a tiny chance Rousey could win. Assuming she could take him down without getting knocked out in the first few seconds. If the fight went to the ground it would be hard to say who would win.

[Kingsley Davis]

Strong in this thread.

[Deuce Anna Half]

Rousey's not getting in close enough to clinch and throw Mayweather without getting her chin checked, so her only option to put Mayweather on his back is to shoot a low single from way outside a la Randy Couture/James Toney.



And I've never seen her shoot for a takedown once in her life.

[Kabal]

(07-25-2015 08:28 PM)Deuce Anna Half Wrote:  

Rousey's not getting in close enough to clinch and throw Mayweather without getting her chin checked, so her only option to put Mayweather on his back is to shoot a low single from way outside a la Randy Couture/James Toney.



And I've never seen her shoot for a takedown once in her life.

Or pull a Chonan...

[Ryre]

I go both ways on this, it's interesting to think about. Rhonda's game is not built on low shots, as was noted above, which are harder for a boxer to deal with. But Mayweather does a lot of clinching, does he not? Throw the right, dive into the clinch to the opponent can't hit back.

I think about the old Gracie challenges. They'd just kind of run into the clinch with the other fighter and drag him down. Their takedowns were less sophisticated than Rousey's. But they were up against trad martial artists mostly, not real combat athletes, let alone world-class ones like Mayweather. And of course, they were men.

I suspect he'd crack her and she'd drop, it'd be over fast. But it could go completely the other way. Might depend on whether she has a low shot, something we've never really seen her do because she hasn't had to. That'd probably be the way for her to fight it, take a couple of low shots. Even if they don't work they get him thinking about it. Then maybe she can get into the clinch. Or if he gets overconfident and starts trying to ground and pound after a sprawl. It's very easy for a standup fighter to get in trouble fast, staying on top a little too long instead of disengaging. Shoot, Lesnar is a wrestler and Mir still locked him up the first time.

I'd be rooting for Rowdy Rhonda, no lie.

[Swooper]

This is obviously a joke. But if we were to see a serious MMA fight between Ronda and a similarly sized male fighter...

Just imagine the brutal beatdown that bantamweight UFC champ TJ Dillashaw would put on her. Forget the hospital, she would be going to the graveyard.

[H1N1]

I can't believe there is so much debate about this.

1. The pool of talent for female MMA is tiny, just as the pool of talent for female boxing is tiny. This is true for all female fighting sports. Any woman champion in MMA has likey fought very few people to reach that spot, even fewer of quality.

2. The pool of talent, amateur and professional, for the weight divisions between 126-154lbs, where Floyd has been Golden gloves champion, state champion, world champion - that pool of talent is HUGE. There will be more competitive guys at one weight class in amateur boxing in a single state than there will be for the entirety of female MMA, across all weight divisions, globally.

3. I don't think people necessarily appreciate just how capable a guy who makes it to world champion elite levels of boxing is. Someone like Mayweather is a bad motherfucker. All this 'he'd need to learn judo/BJJ' business is way off the mark, in my view. Mayweather is a fighter, he can fight. You change the rules and he'll adapt. The idea that because someone 'doesn't have a ground game' in the sense of BJJ or whatever, that he would be sunk on the floor, is simply not true.

4. To take the example someone gave above, anyone who knows anything about James Toney would tell you that 10 years ago, if you'd put him in a ring with whoever that MMA fighter was, it would likely have been murder. Boxing rules may well have been invented simply to protect guys like that from James Toney. He grew up a fighter on the streets of Philli. The first day he walked into a boxing gym (no boxing training previously), he whupped a top rank prospect with 46 wins on his record.


If Mayweather fought Rousey, it would be a barbaric, one sided, murder. There is no dimension or parallel universe where there is any other result.

[whoishe]

(07-25-2015 08:28 PM)Deuce Anna Half Wrote:  

Rousey's not getting in close enough to clinch and throw Mayweather without getting her chin checked, so her only option to put Mayweather on his back is to shoot a low single from way outside a la Randy Couture/James Toney.



And I've never seen her shoot for a takedown once in her life.

This.

Majority of Rousey judo years were when judokas were still training this kind of takedowns for competition. So training them heavily and doing them well enough before "Mayweather fight" shouldn't be an issue.
Mayweather would be ready for it of course.

(07-26-2015 05:52 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

I can't believe there is so much debate about this.

1. The pool of talent for female MMA is tiny, just as the pool of talent for female boxing is tiny. This is true for all female fighting sports. Any woman champion in MMA has likey fought very few people to reach that spot, even fewer of quality.

2. The pool of talent, amateur and professional, for the weight divisions between 126-154lbs, where Floyd has been Golden gloves champion, state champion, world champion - that pool of talent is HUGE. There will be more competitive guys at one weight class in amateur boxing in a single state than there will be for the entirety of female MMA, across all weight divisions, globally.

3. I don't think people necessarily appreciate just how capable a guy who makes it to world champion elite levels of boxing is. Someone like Mayweather is a bad motherfucker. All this 'he'd need to learn judo/BJJ' business is way off the mark, in my view. Mayweather is a fighter, he can fight. You change the rules and he'll adapt. The idea that because someone 'doesn't have a ground game' in the sense of BJJ or whatever, that he would be sunk on the floor, is simply not true.

4. To take the example someone gave above, anyone who knows anything about James Toney would tell you that 10 years ago, if you'd put him in a ring with whoever that MMA fighter was, it would likely have been murder. Boxing rules may well have been invented simply to protect guys like that from James Toney. He grew up a fighter on the streets of Philli. The first day he walked into a boxing gym (no boxing training previously), he whupped a top rank prospect with 46 wins on his record.

Some good points. There's not a surprise that it's Judoka who dominates in female MMA, as it's the most popular grappling sport among women. And Rousey was fighting in categories which are not easy to get to the top (in females world).

But I disagree with 4th point, as I believe that similar level pure boxer would lose to pure grappler more aften than not. Of course it's not the case with Mayweather vs Rousey, but in one of Klitschko brothers vs Polish Championship in Wrestling (not sure if it would make a difference if Greco-Roman or Freestyle) I would bet money on wrestler winning 7-8 out of 10 fights.

[PrimeTime32]

(07-26-2015 05:52 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

I can't believe there is so much debate about this.

1. The pool of talent for female MMA is tiny, just as the pool of talent for female boxing is tiny. This is true for all female fighting sports. Any woman champion in MMA has likey fought very few people to reach that spot, even fewer of quality.

2. The pool of talent, amateur and professional, for the weight divisions between 126-154lbs, where Floyd has been Golden gloves champion, state champion, world champion - that pool of talent is HUGE. There will be more competitive guys at one weight class in amateur boxing in a single state than there will be for the entirety of female MMA, across all weight divisions, globally.

3. I don't think people necessarily appreciate just how capable a guy who makes it to world champion elite levels of boxing is. Someone like Mayweather is a bad motherfucker. All this 'he'd need to learn judo/BJJ' business is way off the mark, in my view. Mayweather is a fighter, he can fight. You change the rules and he'll adapt. The idea that because someone 'doesn't have a ground game' in the sense of BJJ or whatever, that he would be sunk on the floor, is simply not true.

4. To take the example someone gave above, anyone who knows anything about James Toney would tell you that 10 years ago, if you'd put him in a ring with whoever that MMA fighter was, it would likely have been murder. Boxing rules may well have been invented simply to protect guys like that from James Toney. He grew up a fighter on the streets of Philli. The first day he walked into a boxing gym (no boxing training previously), he whupped a top rank prospect with 46 wins on his record.


If Mayweather fought Rousey, it would be a barbaric, one sided, murder. There is no dimension or parallel universe where there is any other result.

Finally some people in this thread making sense, nice breakdown by the way. To add to his post, in MMA last time I checked you are allowed to throw a punch. If that's the case all Floyd would have to do was throw a decent jab and it would be lights out for Rousey.

[Ryre]

(07-26-2015 05:52 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

4. To take the example someone gave above, anyone who knows anything about James Toney would tell you that 10 years ago, if you'd put him in a ring with whoever that MMA fighter was, it would likely have been murder. Boxing rules may well have been invented simply to protect guys like that from James Toney. He grew up a fighter on the streets of Philli. The first day he walked into a boxing gym (no boxing training previously), he whupped a top rank prospect with 46 wins on his record.

Grapplers have been clowning 1-dimensional strikers since the UFC began. Royce Gracie beat a boxer in UFC 1, I don't think the guy landed one punch. Matt Hughes was fighting in 2005. If he and James Toney were the same weight class, Toney would spend that fight in the mounted crucifix taking elbows. Hell, if actual Matt Hughes at 170 fought actual James Toney at whatever, I'd bet on the same result.

We've got wrestlers and people who train serious grappling in the forum. Ask them what happens when an athletic guy walks in off the street.

[The Wire]

(07-25-2015 12:54 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

If you've ever boxed with some decent male boxers, you'd know Floyd can put Ronda down with one or two jabs, especially with MMA gloves. There is no chance she even gets near him. The fight will be over that quickly. He's way too fast, has four inches of reach, the best footwork in the game, and at a minimum 10lbs of muscle larger. One Mayweather jab will be the hardest punch she's ever taken in her life.

If the fight started in a standing clinch, who do you think would win?

[H1N1]

(07-26-2015 07:11 AM)whoishe Wrote:  

(07-25-2015 08:28 PM)Deuce Anna Half Wrote:  

Rousey's not getting in close enough to clinch and throw Mayweather without getting her chin checked, so her only option to put Mayweather on his back is to shoot a low single from way outside a la Randy Couture/James Toney.



And I've never seen her shoot for a takedown once in her life.

This.

Majority of Rousey judo years were when judokas were still training this kind of takedowns for competition. So training them heavily and doing them well enough before "Mayweather fight" shouldn't be an issue.
Mayweather would be ready for it of course.

(07-26-2015 05:52 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

I can't believe there is so much debate about this.

1. The pool of talent for female MMA is tiny, just as the pool of talent for female boxing is tiny. This is true for all female fighting sports. Any woman champion in MMA has likey fought very few people to reach that spot, even fewer of quality.

2. The pool of talent, amateur and professional, for the weight divisions between 126-154lbs, where Floyd has been Golden gloves champion, state champion, world champion - that pool of talent is HUGE. There will be more competitive guys at one weight class in amateur boxing in a single state than there will be for the entirety of female MMA, across all weight divisions, globally.

3. I don't think people necessarily appreciate just how capable a guy who makes it to world champion elite levels of boxing is. Someone like Mayweather is a bad motherfucker. All this 'he'd need to learn judo/BJJ' business is way off the mark, in my view. Mayweather is a fighter, he can fight. You change the rules and he'll adapt. The idea that because someone 'doesn't have a ground game' in the sense of BJJ or whatever, that he would be sunk on the floor, is simply not true.

4. To take the example someone gave above, anyone who knows anything about James Toney would tell you that 10 years ago, if you'd put him in a ring with whoever that MMA fighter was, it would likely have been murder. Boxing rules may well have been invented simply to protect guys like that from James Toney. He grew up a fighter on the streets of Philli. The first day he walked into a boxing gym (no boxing training previously), he whupped a top rank prospect with 46 wins on his record.

Some good points. There's not a surprise that it's Judoka who dominates in female MMA, as it's the most popular grappling sport among women. And Rousey was fighting in categories which are not easy to get to the top (in females world).

But I disagree with 4th point, as I believe that similar level pure boxer would lose to pure grappler more aften than not. Of course it's not the case with Mayweather vs Rousey, but in one of Klitschko brothers vs Polish Championship in Wrestling (not sure if it would make a difference if Greco-Roman or Freestyle) I would bet money on wrestler winning 7-8 out of 10 fights.

I don't disagree, I'm not claiming a pure boxer beats every wrestler or what have you. Clearly Klitschko or whoever gets tied in knots in a wrestling match, and rag dolled. My point, which was massively exaggerated for dramatic effect, was that guys like James Toney, or Floyd Mayweather, are straight up bad dudes, and they can fight. MMA fanboys love to tout how it's 'the closest thing to a streetfight/'real fight' there is'. If that is the case, guys like James Toney, who was so good at street fighting that he wiped the floor with a top ranked prospect in his first ever sparring session, would fair a lot better than most MMA guys would probably appreciate, Probably due to the fact that they are mostly middle class whiteboys. The fact that guys who couldn't cut it in boxing got beaten in MMA matches doesn't change the fact that the real fighters can fight, irrespective of rule sets. Of course that holds true to the MMA fighters too, many of whom are phenominal athletes and excellent fighters in their own right - I have nothing but respect for the skill set and the individual arts.

[H1N1]

(07-26-2015 11:31 AM)The Wire Wrote:  

(07-25-2015 12:54 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

If you've ever boxed with some decent male boxers, you'd know Floyd can put Ronda down with one or two jabs, especially with MMA gloves. There is no chance she even gets near him. The fight will be over that quickly. He's way too fast, has four inches of reach, the best footwork in the game, and at a minimum 10lbs of muscle larger. One Mayweather jab will be the hardest punch she's ever taken in her life.

If the fight started in a standing clinch, who do you think would win?

You mean you'd let Floyd essentially start in the pocket, where he can throw short hooks and uppercuts? I think if that happened, and they started in the clinch, it finishes even quicker, because Floyd doesn't have to waste precious seconds crossing the ring to hit her.

[Cr33pin]

(07-26-2015 11:36 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

I don't disagree, I'm not claiming a pure boxer beats every wrestler or what have you. Clearly Klitschko or whoever gets tied in knots in a wrestling match, and rag dolled. My point, which was massively exaggerated for dramatic effect, was that guys like James Toney, or Floyd Mayweather, are straight up bad dudes, and they can fight. MMA fanboys love to tout how it's 'the closest thing to a streetfight/'real fight' there is'. If that is the case, guys like James Toney, who was so good at street fighting that he wiped the floor with a top ranked prospect in his first ever sparring session, would fair a lot better than most MMA guys would probably appreciate, especially given that they are mostly middle class whiteboys. The fact that guys who couldn't cut it in boxing got beaten in MMA matches doesn't change the fact that the real fighters can fight, irrespective of rule sets. Of course that holds true to the MMA fighters too, many of whom are phenominal athletes and excellent fighters in their own right - I have nothing but respect for the skill set and the individual arts.

Thats not racist or anything

[H1N1]

(07-26-2015 11:45 AM)Cr33pin Wrote:  

(07-26-2015 11:36 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

I don't disagree, I'm not claiming a pure boxer beats every wrestler or what have you. Clearly Klitschko or whoever gets tied in knots in a wrestling match, and rag dolled. My point, which was massively exaggerated for dramatic effect, was that guys like James Toney, or Floyd Mayweather, are straight up bad dudes, and they can fight. MMA fanboys love to tout how it's 'the closest thing to a streetfight/'real fight' there is'. If that is the case, guys like James Toney, who was so good at street fighting that he wiped the floor with a top ranked prospect in his first ever sparring session, would fair a lot better than most MMA guys would probably appreciate, especially given that they are mostly middle class whiteboys. The fact that guys who couldn't cut it in boxing got beaten in MMA matches doesn't change the fact that the real fighters can fight, irrespective of rule sets. Of course that holds true to the MMA fighters too, many of whom are phenominal athletes and excellent fighters in their own right - I have nothing but respect for the skill set and the individual arts.

Thats not racist or anything

Most MMA fans and casual practitioners, in the West (perhaps I should have added that caveat) appear to be middle class whiteboys, and Daddy foots the bill for their expensive BBJ/Muai Thai cross training. I lived, and regularly trained, with a semi pro MMA fighter for 2 years, and met a great many MMA guys through that friendship.

I am a middle class whiteboy, who has spent many years boxing in some very rough gyms where middle class white guys are in short supply.

I don't think it was a racist statement, and I think yours was a fairly trite response. Arguably it was crass, if you really have such a depth of experience with the background demographics of MMA fans and non-elite fighters that you can confidently contradict what I say. If you do, surely you can come up with something better than 'that's racist'. If my statement does hold water, which in my experience it does, then it is to all intents and purposes a true statement, and I fail to see how the truth can be racist. Did you mean, 'I do MMA and you hurt my feelings'?

Edit: Incidently, I do not actually like enough people to be able to afford to be racist, skin colour would be a disqualifier too far and life would become terribly lonely.

[Natural Born Gyalist]

(07-26-2015 11:31 AM)The Wire Wrote:  

(07-25-2015 12:54 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

If you've ever boxed with some decent male boxers, you'd know Floyd can put Ronda down with one or two jabs, especially with MMA gloves. There is no chance she even gets near him. The fight will be over that quickly. He's way too fast, has four inches of reach, the best footwork in the game, and at a minimum 10lbs of muscle larger. One Mayweather jab will be the hardest punch she's ever taken in her life.

If the fight started in a standing clinch, who do you think would win?

And where do they do that at? In addition, Floyd would never, ever take this fight. Not like he needs another domestic violence charge or lawsuit form another jealous gold-digger. Just sayin.

[Cr33pin]

(07-26-2015 11:56 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

Most MMA fans and casual practitioners, in the West (perhaps I should have added that caveat) appear to be middle class whiteboys, and Daddy foots the bill for their expensive BBJ/Muai Thai cross training. I lived, and regularly trained, with a semi pro MMA fighter for 2 years, and met a great many MMA guys through that friendship.

I am a middle class whiteboy, who has spent many years boxing in some very rough gyms where middle class white guys are in short supply.

I don't think it was a racist statement, and I think yours was a fairly trite response. Arguably it was crass, if you really have such a depth of experience with the background demographics of MMA fans and non-elite fighters that you can confidently contradict what I say. If you do, surely you can come up with something better than 'that's racist'. If my statement does hold water, which in my experience it does, then it is to all intents and purposes a true statement, and I fail to see how the truth can be racist. Did you mean, 'I do MMA and you hurt my feelings'?

Edit: Incidently, I do not actually like enough people to be able to afford to be racist, skin colour would be a disqualifier too far and life would become terribly lonely.

You fail to see how judging a whole demographic of people (middle class white people) based on their race is racist?? Well Then I suppose there is no point in furthering this discussion with you.

However if you must continue trying to explain to me how that statement is not racist please do so over pm, as not to hijack this thread.

[H1N1]

(07-26-2015 12:08 PM)Cr33pin Wrote:  

(07-26-2015 11:56 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

Most MMA fans and casual practitioners, in the West (perhaps I should have added that caveat) appear to be middle class whiteboys, and Daddy foots the bill for their expensive BBJ/Muai Thai cross training. I lived, and regularly trained, with a semi pro MMA fighter for 2 years, and met a great many MMA guys through that friendship.

I am a middle class whiteboy, who has spent many years boxing in some very rough gyms where middle class white guys are in short supply.

I don't think it was a racist statement, and I think yours was a fairly trite response. Arguably it was crass, if you really have such a depth of experience with the background demographics of MMA fans and non-elite fighters that you can confidently contradict what I say. If you do, surely you can come up with something better than 'that's racist'. If my statement does hold water, which in my experience it does, then it is to all intents and purposes a true statement, and I fail to see how the truth can be racist. Did you mean, 'I do MMA and you hurt my feelings'?

Edit: Incidently, I do not actually like enough people to be able to afford to be racist, skin colour would be a disqualifier too far and life would become terribly lonely.

You fail to see how judging a whole demographic of people (middle class white people) based on their race is racist?? Well Then I suppose there is no point in furthering this discussion with you.

However if you must continue trying to explain to me how that statement is not racist please do so over pm, as not to hijack this thread.

I feel no particular compulsion to try to explain myself further. Everything I've said is here in writing, and I'm happy to trust that the reading comprehension and fair-mindedness of the other men here will lead them to conclude that what you think I am saying and what I have actually written are two very different things.

[whoishe]

(07-26-2015 11:40 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

(07-26-2015 11:31 AM)The Wire Wrote:  

(07-25-2015 12:54 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

If you've ever boxed with some decent male boxers, you'd know Floyd can put Ronda down with one or two jabs, especially with MMA gloves. There is no chance she even gets near him. The fight will be over that quickly. He's way too fast, has four inches of reach, the best footwork in the game, and at a minimum 10lbs of muscle larger. One Mayweather jab will be the hardest punch she's ever taken in her life.

If the fight started in a standing clinch, who do you think would win?

You mean you'd let Floyd essentially start in the pocket, where he can throw short hooks and uppercuts? I think if that happened, and they started in the clinch, it finishes even quicker, because Floyd doesn't have to waste precious seconds crossing the ring to hit her.

I get your point, but clinch is the only chance for Rousey to win (as low as it is). She has absolutely no chance if she won't be able to close the distance.

[The Wire]

(07-26-2015 11:40 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

(07-26-2015 11:31 AM)The Wire Wrote:  

(07-25-2015 12:54 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

If you've ever boxed with some decent male boxers, you'd know Floyd can put Ronda down with one or two jabs, especially with MMA gloves. There is no chance she even gets near him. The fight will be over that quickly. He's way too fast, has four inches of reach, the best footwork in the game, and at a minimum 10lbs of muscle larger. One Mayweather jab will be the hardest punch she's ever taken in her life.

If the fight started in a standing clinch, who do you think would win?

You mean you'd let Floyd essentially start in the pocket, where he can throw short hooks and uppercuts? I think if that happened, and they started in the clinch, it finishes even quicker, because Floyd doesn't have to waste precious seconds crossing the ring to hit her.

That's why I asked this question. Its a simple litmus test. There's no point debating on the internet about a fight that would never happen in the first place if you can't get past this question.

[Captainstabbin]

(07-26-2015 12:38 PM)The Wire Wrote:  

(07-26-2015 11:40 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

(07-26-2015 11:31 AM)The Wire Wrote:  

(07-25-2015 12:54 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

If you've ever boxed with some decent male boxers, you'd know Floyd can put Ronda down with one or two jabs, especially with MMA gloves. There is no chance she even gets near him. The fight will be over that quickly. He's way too fast, has four inches of reach, the best footwork in the game, and at a minimum 10lbs of muscle larger. One Mayweather jab will be the hardest punch she's ever taken in her life.

If the fight started in a standing clinch, who do you think would win?

You mean you'd let Floyd essentially start in the pocket, where he can throw short hooks and uppercuts? I think if that happened, and they started in the clinch, it finishes even quicker, because Floyd doesn't have to waste precious seconds crossing the ring to hit her.

That's why I asked this question. Its a simple litmus test. There's no point debating on the internet about a fight that would never happen in the first place if you can't get past this question.

What about if Floyd started the match being held down by Ronda's legion of White Knights?

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

(07-26-2015 01:03 PM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  

What about if Floyd started the match being held down by Ronda's legion of White Knights?

That's easy, as long as there are exactly 30 of them.

[Cr33pin]

(07-26-2015 01:07 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

(07-26-2015 01:03 PM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  

What about if Floyd started the match being held down by Ronda's legion of White Knights?

That's easy, as long as there are exactly 30 of them.

Let's not get carried way, Rhonda and Floyd are both elite athletes... but the two of them together aren't even on Little Darks level....