[Onto]

(07-15-2015 06:30 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

I am not sure why it is a crime to deny the Holocaust occurred (freedom of speech and all that jazz), people don't go to jail for being stupid. So it is the same thing.

They do go to jail for doing stupid things.

I can see that victim mentality may be strong from this period of time, but sadly, if it wasn't this it would be something else.

I am starting to believe that some, I mean the majority of people are just addicted to being victims.

It takes a strong person to own everything in his life.

I imagine Germany made it a crime to deny the holocaust for a few reasons.

1) Imagine the enormous fault a nation must've felt when learning their country murdered 6 million innocent human beings. Many of which were women and children. How does a country go about atoning for that?

2) It sounds like many German's want to just forget it, especially modern day ones, but it seems the older generations don't feel that way. Probably because they are not as removed from the horrific atrocities as the younger generation is.

When the twin towers on 9/11 were brought down there was the rallying cry, "Never Forget". This is because people do forget, all the time. If we didn't then we wouldn't need a rally cry to remind us. I imagine the holocaust denial laws are a variation of that theme. Essentially saying, "Don't forgot how things can get so out of hand. How evil can take hold of a society." Like PolPot in Cambodia, and scores of other heinous leaders in other countries throughout time.

Knowing there's a law against holocaust denial, one has to ask why would someone go ahead and do that knowingly? Where are they coming from when they feel the need to deny the holocaust?

[BortimusPrime]

(07-15-2015 07:02 PM)Onto Wrote:  

(07-15-2015 06:30 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

I am not sure why it is a crime to deny the Holocaust occurred (freedom of speech and all that jazz), people don't go to jail for being stupid. So it is the same thing.

They do go to jail for doing stupid things.

I can see that victim mentality may be strong from this period of time, but sadly, if it wasn't this it would be something else.

I am starting to believe that some, I mean the majority of people are just addicted to being victims.

It takes a strong person to own everything in his life.

I imagine Germany made it a crime to deny the holocaust for a few reasons.

1) Imagine the enormous fault a nation must've felt when learning their country murdered 6 million innocent human beings. Many of which were women and children. How does a country go about atoning for that?

2) It sounds like many German's want to just forget it, especially modern day ones, but it seems the older generations don't feel that way. Probably because they are not as removed from the horrific atrocities as the younger generation is.

When the twin towers on 9/11 were brought down there was the rallying cry, "Never Forget". This is because people do forget, all the time. If we didn't then we wouldn't need a rally cry to remind us. I imagine the holocaust denial laws are a variation of that theme. Essentially saying, "Don't forgot how things can get so out of hand. How evil can take hold of a society." Like PolPot in Cambodia, and scores of other heinous leaders in other countries throughout time.

Knowing there's a law against holocaust denial, one has to ask why would someone go ahead and do that knowingly? Where are they coming from when they feel the need to deny the holocaust?

The problem with "Never Forget!" can be observed with the Israeli/Palestine conflict in which both sides are never forgetting. It's too short of a jump from never forget to never forgive.

[Onto]

(07-15-2015 07:06 PM)BortimusPrime Wrote:  

(07-15-2015 07:02 PM)Onto Wrote:  

(07-15-2015 06:30 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

I am not sure why it is a crime to deny the Holocaust occurred (freedom of speech and all that jazz), people don't go to jail for being stupid. So it is the same thing.

They do go to jail for doing stupid things.

I can see that victim mentality may be strong from this period of time, but sadly, if it wasn't this it would be something else.

I am starting to believe that some, I mean the majority of people are just addicted to being victims.

It takes a strong person to own everything in his life.

I imagine Germany made it a crime to deny the holocaust for a few reasons.

1) Imagine the enormous fault a nation must've felt when learning their country murdered 6 million innocent human beings. Many of which were women and children. How does a country go about atoning for that?

2) It sounds like many German's want to just forget it, especially modern day ones, but it seems the older generations don't feel that way. Probably because they are not as removed from the horrific atrocities as the younger generation is.

When the twin towers on 9/11 were brought down there was the rallying cry, "Never Forget". This is because people do forget, all the time. If we didn't then we wouldn't need a rally cry to remind us. I imagine the holocaust denial laws are a variation of that theme. Essentially saying, "Don't forgot how things can get so out of hand. How evil can take hold of a society." Like PolPot in Cambodia, and scores of other heinous leaders in other countries throughout time.

Knowing there's a law against holocaust denial, one has to ask why would someone go ahead and do that knowingly? Where are they coming from when they feel the need to deny the holocaust?

The problem with "Never Forget!" can be observed with the Israeli/Palestine conflict in which both sides are never forgetting. It's too short of a jump from never forget to never forgive.

Like anything, it can be used for good or bad. The choice is up to the individual and to a larger extent their society.

[RawGod]

The problem with anti-"Holocaust denial" laws is the chilling effect on historical enquiry and people's ability to question received narratives in general. So-called "deniers" usually don't deny that the Nazis intentionally killed Jews. They might say, "was it really 6 million? Let's look at the evidence" which is completely legitimate historical research - and then they lose their jobs, get put in jail, etc. It all reinforces the tight straitjacket of conformity that Germans in particular still live under.

[Onto]

(07-15-2015 07:25 PM)RawGod Wrote:  

The problem with anti-"Holocaust denial" laws is the chilling effect on historical enquiry and people's ability to question received narratives in general. So-called "deniers" usually don't deny that the Nazis intentionally killed Jews. They might say, "was it really 6 million? Let's look at the evidence" which is completely legitimate historical research - and then they lose their jobs, get put in jail, etc. It all reinforces the tight straitjacket of conformity that Germans in particular still live under.

I don't know much about German culture but I guess it does seem like whatever they decide on they take it to the extreme. Including building quality cars.

[Paracelsus]

(07-15-2015 07:29 PM)Onto Wrote:  

(07-15-2015 07:25 PM)RawGod Wrote:  

The problem with anti-"Holocaust denial" laws is the chilling effect on historical enquiry and people's ability to question received narratives in general. So-called "deniers" usually don't deny that the Nazis intentionally killed Jews. They might say, "was it really 6 million? Let's look at the evidence" which is completely legitimate historical research - and then they lose their jobs, get put in jail, etc. It all reinforces the tight straitjacket of conformity that Germans in particular still live under.

I don't know much about German culture but I guess it does seem like whatever they decide on they take it to the extreme. Including building quality cars.

You, sir, have never had the misfortune of owning a Volkswagen.

[younggun]

Unbelievable that there are forum members supporting this sentence. If anyone should understand indoctrination it should be the red pill community.

The Nazi Party rose to power in 1932, 83 years ago. This man would have been an 11 year old boy, raised on the ideals of the Nazi Party. He was likely groomed to believe all the anti-semitic stances of the party, like a beta boy with a feminist single mother.

He did not commit any murders, and any attempt to prevent the killings would have likely resulted in his own death. If that isn't considered duress, I'm not sure what else could be.

And most importantly, this is 70 YEARS after the fact. Giving someone a 4 year sentence for this is ridiculous. Just another attempt to suck up to the victims who've had three quarters of a century to move on.

[Pontifex Maximus]

(07-15-2015 07:02 PM)Onto Wrote:  

I imagine Germany made it a crime to deny the holocaust for a few reasons.

1) Imagine the enormous fault a nation must've felt when learning their country murdered 6 million innocent human beings. Many of which were women and children. How does a country go about atoning for that?

2) It sounds like many German's want to just forget it, especially modern day ones, but it seems the older generations don't feel that way. Probably because they are not as removed from the horrific atrocities as the younger generation is.

When the twin towers on 9/11 were brought down there was the rallying cry, "Never Forget". This is because people do forget, all the time. If we didn't then we wouldn't need a rally cry to remind us. I imagine the holocaust denial laws are a variation of that theme. Essentially saying, "Don't forgot how things can get so out of hand. How evil can take hold of a society." Like PolPot in Cambodia, and scores of other heinous leaders in other countries throughout time.

Knowing there's a law against holocaust denial, one has to ask why would someone go ahead and do that knowingly? Where are they coming from when they feel the need to deny the holocaust?

3) Actions speak louder than words. Money speaks louder than both. It would take a lot to convince me that Allied loans like the Marshall Plan didn't require... ideological compromises.

Quote:

Here's the core. German public debt in 1944 amounted to 379 billion reichsmarks, roughly four times Germany's 1938 GDP. Currency reform under the auspices of the US Army in 1948 wiped out this debt. To zero. Now you cannot wipe out a country's national debt without causing a banking crisis. Therefore, all other nominal assets in Germany were converted at 10:1 (later raised to 6.5:1), and banks received compensating claims, zombie assets, against the state. These amounted to 18 billion deutschmarks, to be written off slowly. Other than that, the currency was converted at par. OK so far? From 379 billion reichsmarks to 18 billion deutschmarks in a situation of price stability

...

Now let's add it all up. Roughly 350 billion reichsmarks/deutschmarks of forgiven domestic debt plus, say, 15 billion deutschmarks of debt forgiveness in the London agreement plus another 90 billion reichsmarks/deutschmarks of wartime debt kicked into the long grass. That makes 465 billion reichsmarks/deutschmarks of cancelled debt, still not including all deferred interest payments. But to be sure and extra cautious, assume that only roughly two thirds of Germany's domestic debt accrued to West Germany—no, wait, let's be even more cautious and just make it 50%. Then we have 175 billion reichsmarks/deutschmarks in domestic debt and 105 billion reichsmarks/deutschmarks in foreign debt that Germany was spared. That exceeds 280% of West German GDP of 1950. Does that beat Greece? You bet.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexcha...-history-2

[porscheguy]

Putting this guy on trial for shit he really didn't do over 70 years ago is straight up SJW bullshit.

[Parzival]

The whole idea behind this trial is, that everybody is responsible and can not just say stuff like: I did follow orders. Still the question is, how much could you do to make a difference in those circumstances?

What a greater pity is that those in charge often get no punishment but the ordinary people are those that get the beating. They slipped into the organisations of eastern and western germany and had no real interest that their actions come to light. It was a big deny issue till the sons and daughters of them started to ask question. What did you do at that time dad? Was one reason for the protest movement, called 68er in Germany in 1968. From this Germany did change because of those left wing people, emancipation, feminism and all the other stuff we know today.

Justice should move one and don't stop just because you are an old guy, still in this case it has a bitter taste.

[atlant]

He will not serve the time anyway, they have to check if he is in suitable enough condition for prison and he was supposedly barely conscious and reactive throughout the trial to begin with. He is over 90 years old. The trial is done purely for ethical and symbolic reasons and as such completely justified.

I find it amazing that the whole "he was just following orders" argument is defended in this forum, of all places. Besides as has been pointed out it is not true anyway.

Saying that the victims "should just move on" from the goddamn Holocaust...I don't even know what to respond to that.

[Saweeep]

The public sector here in the UK often goes to great length to justify its existence and therefore employment.

Could something similar be at play with whomever is responsible for "Nazi Hunting" in Germany?

[N°6]

There you have it. A book keeper has more murderous potential than those who carpet-bombed German civilians daily and nightly before lobbing a couple of atom bombs at Japanese civilians for good measure.

Somewhere near you democracy's love-bombs are a fallin'.

[JacksonRev]

Lessons here:

1) Don't Lose.
2) If you do lose, lose like Japan. Don't apologize and go back to work.

[Soothesayer]

It took me a long time to figure out why some of my fellow Jewish students were hostile towards Christians in general. That is, whenever said christian decided to convert them, telling them Christ was the only way to Heaven. Back in high school none of them liked hearing this. At all. They often became irate and hostile in the same way Islamics become hostile when you try to minister to them, going so far as to threaten you before you've finished talking. For years I wondered why this was the case. Then in the late nineties it finally dawned on me.

They need BLOOD for justice or forgiveness. A sacrifice such as that in the Old Testament. For *any* crime, there can never be any forgiveness unless someone's head is about to roll on some level, depending on the crime. Contrast this with the forgiveness and 'pray for your enemies' mantra of Christianity. Two vastly different worlds of people who worship different deities. This is what I see here in this case.

They will never forgive Germany for Holocaust crimes, nor will they ever get over it. As disgusting as that era was, they will never, ever heal unless they learn to forgive in the way Christ forgives: unconditionally. And if they do not forgive *unconditionally*, they will never enter the kingdom of Heaven.

[lemko]

(07-16-2015 11:25 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

The public sector here in the UK often goes to great length to justify its existence and therefore employment.

Could something similar be at play with whomever is responsible for "Nazi Hunting" in Germany?

"OK, we got the guy who was the bookkeeper at Auschwitz. Now we can go after the guy who emptied the wastepaper baskets in the commandant's office. He's 89 years-old and living somewhere in Sandusky, Ohio."

[Sherman]

There is no justice for putting someone in jail for keeping books. The law doesn't require moral perfection. He would have been shot for not doing his job. The GIs who bombed Hiroshima were given metals. The unlawful shootings of German prisoners after the war were ignored. But, someone who keeps books goes to jail. This is part of a larger theme that should be noted. First, the elites in power are eroding the principles of laws in all Western countries. Take for example, in America now where you are considered an evil person for wanting the government to enforce immigration laws. Should you be put in jail? The other theme to note is that the ideologies that came out of World War II are fundamental to their control which is why it is still very much alive and relevant to us today. I would urge men to do some investigation and start deconstructing World War II to realize all the lies you have been told.

[Goldin Boy]

(07-16-2015 11:29 AM)N°6 Wrote:  

There you have it. A book keeper has more murderous potential than those who carpet-bombed German civilians daily and nightly before lobbing a couple of atom bombs at Japanese civilians for good measure.

Somewhere near you democracy's love-bombs are a fallin'.

To quote one of the winners of WW2 "History is written by the victors." If the Axis won, they might've named a street after this man in Berlin.

Bolded part is a poor analogy:

If a cop pulled you over for doing 90 MPH in a 65 MPH and you tell him "You must've going really fast to keep up with me", he's not going to write himself a ticket or let you walk. There's a huge disparity in authority between you and him which him immune to punishment just like there is between the Truman administration and this German man.

Who is going to charge Truman with genocide? The defeated Axis nations? Stalin? Churchill? Only the victorious parties in any war get to claim the moral high ground in spite of any atrocities they committed.

This man picked a side in the war, he picked wrong and now he's at the mercy of the winners.

[Goldin Boy]

delete,dupe.

[Fast Eddie]

(07-15-2015 05:38 PM)Teedub Wrote:  

(07-15-2015 12:32 PM)extracube Wrote:  

Is it just me or are a lot od RVF forum members getting all social justicy?

Whilst I answered your question for you...just a quick heads up: It isn't good practice here to start calling out other more established members when you have such a low post/rep count yourself.

That said, I am quite surprised at guys saying this old man deserves this jailing. Especially without researching his history further. Yes, he was in the SS willingly, but as I said - is that really surprising? It was the elite organisation in the Nazi regime, and if you'd been told since school that it was the way to be a top member of society (believing that there truly would be a 1000 year Reich), it isn't surprising that many people strived to join.

He was featured in the acclaimed Laurence Rees documentary series 'Nazis: A Warning From History' (highly recommended by the way to those interested in this period) and an article about the programme said the following:

Quote:

He had always refused to talk about Auschwitz even to his own family but now he wanted to give witness against the Holocaust deniers, such as friends at his local philately club, who had insisted the camps were all a lie. That was why he said on film: "I would like you to believe me. I saw the gas chambers. I saw the crematoria. I saw the open fires. I was on the ramp when the selections took place. I would like you to believe that these atrocities happened, because I was there."

There's a few members on here, even very highly repped ones, who think the Holocaust was somewhat fabricated by others (Israel/USA etc), I cannot understand how you can think that - when you have people who were there who tell you they saw it and took part in it, however mildly.

It's also interesting how the people who hate Jews the most (hardcore Muslims) also are most likely to dismiss the Holocaust as truth. It's almost like they want to cling on to their hatred of Jews without acknowledging that something terrible happened to them, because it's only normal to feel sympathy for Holocaust survivors - and I guess that creates a kind of cognitive dissonance.

For all my talk about the bad stuff of multiculturalism and so on, I wouldn't ever wish for what happened in those camps on anyone. Ever.*

Truly blood curdling some of the first-hand accounts. I can't imagine how awful it would be to have those doors close on the 'shower rooms', the lights to go out and then for you to finally realise what's about to happen to you. Imagine being a kid and how truly nightmarish that would be like? Ever seen Boy In The Striped Pajamas...that end scene

* The only time I'd OK it would be with guys like ISIS. That's the only time I'd probably take some sick satisfaction in seeing a guy like Amon Goeth in action (that's Ralph Fiennes, playing him, from Schindler's List below). I love my German friends, but bloody hell if there's a more rule-bound peoples - please point them out! It honestly doesn't surprise me that it was that country that did killing so efficiently.



If Germany ever gets over it's guilt, allah help radical Islam. That said, Shia Islam seems a lot better than Wahhabi Sunni Islam...if Shia's were the dominant sect in the Middle East you'd be seeing a very different place. All the Shia's I've met in my life have been a lot more moderate - even if they don't drink alcohol, they'll still come to the pub and hang out etc. The sooner Saudi runs out of oil the better. Assad and Putin should team up and help Iran to wipe out the Wahhabis/Salafis (that includes ISIS).

Here's what rubs me the wrong way about the whole Holocaust schtick:

-Over 50 million people died in WWII, only 6 million (at most!) of whom were Jews. Of those 50 million, nearly 20 million consist of Polish and Russian civilians who were killed in much the same train of thought as the Jews. The way we talk about it now, it's as if those people are completely irrelevant, only the Jews count.

-Civilians of occupied nations (especially in the Eastern Front) being blamed for "not doing enough" to save the Jews even while they themselves were being herded off to concentration camps or shot in the fields. As if duty to save the jews should precede your loyalty to your own family and people.

-The Germans are blamed for the Holocaust, ok fine. But the Americans and the British and the Russians are also being blamed for the Holocaust. And the French, Polish, etc. Shit, probably the Australians as well for all I know. Want to implement this or that policy that goes against the sensibilities of liberal jews? Watch it buddy, it's a slippery slope to the Holocaust! The Russians alone lost over 20m dead fighting the Nazis, I can't even imagine how infuriating it must be for a Russian to be bludgeon with the "Nazi" verbal hammer.

[Medic42]

[TigerMandingo]

(07-16-2015 12:21 PM)lemko Wrote:  

"OK, we got the guy who was the bookkeeper at Auschwitz. Now we can go after the guy who emptied the wastepaper baskets in the commandant's office. He's 89 years-old and living somewhere in Sandusky, Ohio."

Funny you bring up an old guy from Ohio, because they actually did go after John Demjanjuk, a mechanic from Cleveland who they thought was some brutal guard at Auschwitz. The guy was dragged around the world for decades between Israel, the US, and Germany to stand trials. This was some years back and the case was extremely complicated - I know he died but I have no idea if he was ever convicted. Interesting to read about, nonetheless.

[TheWastelander]

(07-16-2015 06:31 PM)Goldin Boy Wrote:  

(07-16-2015 11:29 AM)N°6 Wrote:  

There you have it. A book keeper has more murderous potential than those who carpet-bombed German civilians daily and nightly before lobbing a couple of atom bombs at Japanese civilians for good measure.

Somewhere near you democracy's love-bombs are a fallin'.

To quote one of the winners of WW2 "History is written by the victors." If the Axis won, they might've named a street after this man in Berlin.

Bolded part is a poor analogy:

If a cop pulled you over for doing 90 MPH in a 65 MPH and you tell him "You must've going really fast to keep up with me", he's not going to write himself a ticket or let you walk. There's a huge disparity in authority between you and him which him immune to punishment just like there is between the Truman administration and this German man.

Who is going to charge Truman with genocide? The defeated Axis nations? Stalin? Churchill? Only the victorious parties in any war get to claim the moral high ground in spite of any atrocities they committed.

This man picked a side in the war, he picked wrong and now he's at the mercy of the winners.

"Moral high ground" and 'might makes right' are incompatible concepts, but few people want to acknowledge that because it's politically inconvenient and extremely dangerous.

The truth of the matter is that no one in that war was innocent. Dresden, the betrayal of the Cossacks, the Soviets raping millions of German women, the invasion of Poland, the Katyn massacre, numerous battlefield murders on all sides, the Holocaust, Einsatzgruppen, etc. etc.

The only reason they're hunting down old men who were minor cogs in that system who couldn't do anything to stop what was going on and putting them on trial is because a country that currently behaves in similar ways to the regime that oppressed and killed some of their ancestors benefits from keeping the guilt-trip going. They admit as much when they think the microphones are off and they're surrounded by friends.

Funnily enough, it'd probably be taboo and possibly criminal to even mention that in parts of Europe.

Anyway, this is purely 'might makes right' at work and political revenge encouraged by a people that one poster in this thread previously mentioned never forgets and never forgives.

Compare this behavior with the attitude of reconciliation the West German government had toward East German functionaries. They wanted to leave the past behind and move on. Only a few have been prosecuted when many more probably should've been.

[The_CEO]

(07-16-2015 09:47 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

(07-16-2015 06:31 PM)Goldin Boy Wrote:  

(07-16-2015 11:29 AM)N°6 Wrote:  

There you have it. A book keeper has more murderous potential than those who carpet-bombed German civilians daily and nightly before lobbing a couple of atom bombs at Japanese civilians for good measure.

Somewhere near you democracy's love-bombs are a fallin'.

To quote one of the winners of WW2 "History is written by the victors." If the Axis won, they might've named a street after this man in Berlin.

Bolded part is a poor analogy:

If a cop pulled you over for doing 90 MPH in a 65 MPH and you tell him "You must've going really fast to keep up with me", he's not going to write himself a ticket or let you walk. There's a huge disparity in authority between you and him which him immune to punishment just like there is between the Truman administration and this German man.

Who is going to charge Truman with genocide? The defeated Axis nations? Stalin? Churchill? Only the victorious parties in any war get to claim the moral high ground in spite of any atrocities they committed.

This man picked a side in the war, he picked wrong and now he's at the mercy of the winners.

"Moral high ground" and 'might makes right' are incompatible concepts, but few people want to acknowledge that because it's politically inconvenient and extremely dangerous.

The truth of the matter is that no one in that war was innocent. Dresden, the betrayal of the Cossacks, the Soviets raping millions of German women, the invasion of Poland, the Katyn massacre, numerous battlefield murders on all sides, the Holocaust, Einsatzgruppen, etc. etc.

The only reason they're hunting down old men who were minor cogs in that system who couldn't do anything to stop what was going on and putting them on trial is because a country that currently behaves in similar ways to the regime that oppressed and killed some of their ancestors benefits from keeping the guilt-trip going. They admit as much when they think the microphones are off and they're surrounded by friends.

Funnily enough, it'd probably be taboo and possibly criminal to even mention that in parts of Europe.

Anyway, this is purely 'might makes right' at work and political revenge encouraged by a people that one poster in this thread previously mentioned never forgets and never forgives.

Compare this behavior with the attitude of reconciliation the West German government had toward East German functionaries. They wanted to leave the past behind and move on. Only a few have been prosecuted when many more probably should've been.

Why speak in code? Come out and say what you really think.

As far as "Not forgiving"? This was one dude who worked at a camp and was brought to trial and convicted based on evidence. Not lynched by a vengeful mob.

All Germans are not blamed or held accountable. Germany and Israel are allies and get along well. Many Israelis have even moved back to Germany lately.

I don't know the circumstances of this case but a lot of prosecutions are done for deterrent effect.

You may have also heard of the Nuremberg Trials. Eichman was a notorious bureaucrat and the architect of The Final Solutions. His "just following orders" defense didn't hold up and he was hanged.

[TheWastelander]

(07-16-2015 09:56 PM)The_CEO Wrote:  

Why speak in code? Come out and say what you really think.

As far as "Not forgiving"? This was one dude who worked at a camp and was brought to trial and convicted based on evidence. Not lynched by a vengeful mob.

All Germans are not blamed or held accountable. Germany and Israel are allies and get along well. Many Israelis have even moved back to Germany lately.

I don't know the circumstances of this case but a lot of prosecutions are done for deterrent effect.

You may have also heard of the Nuremberg Trials. Eichman was a notorious bureaucrat and the architect of The Final Solutions. His "just following orders" defense didn't hold up and he was hanged.

You might want to try reading through the entire thread before insinuating I'm holding some secret insidious views. I've written what I think throughout this thread. Now, what's your angle?

As for Israel and Germany being friends..is this how you treat a friend?

Quote:

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-de...m-1.662962

Israeli diplomat in Berlin: Maintaining German guilt about Holocaust helps Israel

In off-the-record comment to journalists, embassy spokeswoman Adi Farjon said Israel had no interest in full normalization of relations with Germany.

A spokeswoman for the Israeli embassy in Berlin recently told Israeli journalists it was in the country’s interest to maintain German guilt about the Holocaust, and that it isn’t seeking full normalization of relations between the governments.

Futhermore, your deterrent effect comment makes no sense at all and there's a world of difference between this guy and Eichmann.