[samsamsam]

Ok - very random question but please don't totally little dark me.

Scenario - you are walking alone and confronted by 2 guys. One your size or bigger and one smaller (he doesn't look like he wold do anything without his big friend).

If it has to happen - do you take out the little shit first while trying to prevent too much damage from the big guy? Or go with the bigger guy and just hope the pussy is exactly a pussy and if he tries to help, he hits like a girl?

I know no situation is the same and this is a made up event. One that I have thought about and am curious what the experts say. I just think if you can strike quickly - get the weaker one out of the fight. Then make it a one on one. Of course, just don't fight at all - but when guys are in numbers they tend to get stupid.

I also realized that you can't just throw one punch. I imagine you will have to be committed to the second punch and only after, if he goes down, can your brain process that. If you go in thinking I am gonna one hit this guy and he goes down, well your ego is huge. Once the fight is on, there can't be hesitation or waiting. Am I off on this?

Thank you in advance.

[H1N1]

(03-06-2016 11:58 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  

Ok - very random question but please don't totally little dark me.

Scenario - you are walking alone and confronted by 2 guys. One your size or bigger and one smaller (he doesn't look like he wold do anything without his big friend).

If it has to happen - do you take out the little shit first while trying to prevent too much damage from the big guy? Or go with the bigger guy and just hope the pussy is exactly a pussy and if he tries to help, he hits like a girl?

I know no situation is the same and this is a made up event. One that I have thought about and am curious what the experts say. I just think if you can strike quickly - get the weaker one out of the fight. Then make it a one on one. Of course, just don't fight at all - but when guys are in numbers they tend to get stupid.

I also realized that you can't just throw one punch. I imagine you will have to be committed to the second punch and only after, if he goes down, can your brain process that. If you go in thinking I am gonna one hit this guy and he goes down, well your ego is huge. Once the fight is on, there can't be hesitation or waiting. Am I off on this?

Thank you in advance.

First, try to stack them. It'll be clear who the aggressor is. Try to get him crossing his friend so that they can't both engage you at the same time. You want always to try to make it so that you are as 1v1 as you can be. 1v1 you have a good shot at winning. 2v1 your odds get dramatically worse. If you have to fight, don't hesitate, and be hyper aggressive. Your mindset should be to use lethal force if you have to, as the odds are so bad that you should treat the situation as representing a lethal threat.

All things being equal, the bigger guy will be more dangerous, particularly if he can grab you and wrestle you into a position where his little friend can kick you in the head on the ground. Putting him down will give you a strength and size advantage, and perhaps a skill advantage too. It may have a demoralising effect on the other guy to see his big mate get dropped, though you should never rely on that, especially if he is committed to the fight by the time his mate gets put down.

All this assumes you can't just run away, which is, of course, by far the preferable option.

[samsamsam]

So big guy first, try to get the big guy between me and his friend so it is closer to one on one. Well I am glad my stupid theories get the truth from you H1N1. Hope all is well H1N1. Thanks.

[H1N1]

(03-06-2016 12:27 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

So big guy first, try to get the big guy between me and his friend so it is closer to one on one. Well I am glad my stupid theories get the truth from you H1N1. Hope all is well H1N1. Thanks.

Try to get the aggressor first. He will be the one driving things towards a fight (assuming you are not dumb enough to be making trouble 2v1). Because of this, he is the most likely to advance decisively when you retreat, or to do something stupid like chest bumping you. Try to take advantage of his posturing and drop him early. It may be the big guy or the little guy, but the aggressor will be the one making the noise/getting in your face/advancing into space you create. Draw him across his friend and catch him coming in if you can; taken by surprise, walking onto a shot, you should be able to put down bigger guys like this. Then deal with the remaining threat as best you can. The big guy is more dangerous in theory, but he may not be the one driving the confrontation.

Also be conscious that if you are up against two experienced predators, then your chances of success drop through the floor, however skilled you are. Again, decisive action is the key, and the situation should be treated as requiring lethal force.

[samsamsam]

Got it - handle the aggressor whoever he happens to be (big or small guy). Hate to be cliche, but if I could I would give you another rep point. Thanks champ.

[Giovonny]

(03-06-2016 11:58 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  

Scenario - you are walking alone and confronted by 2 guys.

Do you take out the little shit first ?

First, you should try to avoid violence.

Stay calm, talk to them, engage them, use humor, use conversational skill, use street smarts, use game, use your brain to avoid violence.

Keep walking! Don't stop! As quickly as you can, move to a well lit, public area like into a store or into a crowded area. Consider running if you can get to a safe place.

That's what you should do first.

You are fighting 2 against 1. Your brain is your most powerful self defense weapon.

--

If they attack you..

Well, it's impossible to say what you should do because this is hypothetical situation.

There are so many factors at play.

Many times, the best thing to do is run.

Or, pull a weapon.

But, again, this is a made up situation so its impossible to say exactly what you should do.

(03-06-2016 11:58 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  

Once the fight is on, there can't be hesitation or waiting. Am I off on this?

Once the fight is on, it's about skill.

You have the skill to fight them off -- Or -- you don't have skill enough to fight them off.

It's that simple.

"Hesitation" and "waiting" can help you or it can hurt you, it all depends how you use it.

(03-06-2016 11:58 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  

I also realized that you can't just throw one punch.

Again, it depends..

If you can take out the aggressor with one punch or at least stun him enough to run away, maybe one punch is enough.

Many fights are ended with one punch.

But, if you decide to fight, be prepared to throw 1000 punches.

And/or, 1000 kicks

+ Elbow strikes, knee strikes, head butts, holds, chokes, scratches, eye gouges, ball grabs, bites, etc.

There are no rules in street fighting.

--

The most important thing that I see is this...

YOU NEED TO FIGHT!!

You are always asking questions about how to fight, how to train for fighting, etc.

Fighting is not learned online.

Fighting is learned by having fights.

Get in the ring and spar. Boxing + MMA + any other live fighting experience you can get.

YOU WANT FIGHTING EXPERIENCE?

GO FIGHT!

That is the only way to learn to deepest and most profound lessons of combat.

[samsamsam]

Thanks Gio, I have been sparring. Just a random thought that popped into my head while walking down the street. But as I have been reading even sparring isn't exactly like street fighting. Best is to avoid. But I guess I have become a bit fascinated about actual fights. Hopefully, this fascination doesn't lead to an unnecessary one.

[Giovonny]

Once, I was jumped by 2 bigger guys.

One of them tried to pick me up and body slam me. As he raised me up off the ground, I noticed some plumbing pipes sticking out of the wall. I grabbed onto the pipes and pulled myself up onto the wall. I was able to stand on a window ledge while holding on to the pipes above my head.

Now, I was standing above the 2 attackers and could use my legs to kick at them from this higher position. This allowed me to fend them off for a few moments until the melee was broken up by security.

Grabbing the pipes and pulling myself up on the wall/window ledge was totally instinctive and spontaneous. There was no way I could have pre-planned it.

My instincts and experience allowed me to defend myself.

I was lucky to escape unharmed.

--

Once, I was jumped by 4-5 guys..

I just covered up and protected my head.

Luckily, they were little guys and did not use a weapon.

thread-26060...#pid493364

--

For me, getting jumped was about my defense not my offense.

I'm proud of myself for how well I defended myself in those times.

*****

(03-07-2016 02:14 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

I have become a bit fascinated about actual fights.

You really need to fight. The more you fight, the more you will find the answers to all your questions.

I feel that fighting is the most effective way to develop "alpha".

I did a post about it a few years ago:

(10-07-2013 12:10 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

Fight!

That is how I cultivated an Alpha mindset, attitude, and demeanor. That is how I developed a sense of superiority over other men and a sense of entitlement over women. That is why I feel like an Alpha.

As a young man, I has dozens of street fights and schoolyard fights. I realized that I could beat up most of the other kids in school. This gave me a psychological and physical advantage over them. They had to respect me.

This was a very primal and animalistic experience. I embraced it. It gave me power.

Girls could sense it.

I cultivated this aggressive, competitive, mindset for many years. I transferred it into other sports. I transferred it to chasing girls. I transferred it into all competitive situations. It became part of my personality. It became my greatest skill.

I call it -- "The Law of The Jungle"

The toughest fighting animal is the one who controls the food, females, and resources. That is the essence of Alpha.

I still spar occasionally. I do this to test myself. Am I still an alpha or have I become a beta? I can usually find out in a matter of minutes.

I know that 99% of guys are not doing this. That fact alone lets me know that I am in the top 1% of men, in this area.

My advice is this..

If you want to become more of an Alpha -- Find a boxing gym or MMA gym -- Go there and fight!

Fight for your life. You will learn things about yourself that otherwise would have gone undiscovered. You will challenge yourself in ways that you previously had never thought of. You will learn more about yourself than you ever thought possible. You will learn strengths and weaknesses that you didn't know existed.

In my opinion, there is no better exercise for Alpha Development.

Challenge yourself on the deepest, most masculine, most primal level..

Fight!

You will be glad that you did. You will become more Alpha.

thread-28831...#pid550304

[samsamsam]

Alright time for another random question. I know, I know, not another one...

I saw some big guys at the gym today. Not muscular just big. Lots of belly fat.

Anyone know how much that helps to absorb/minimize damage? If you punched/kicked to the stomach, would it really hurt at all?

I remember reading about gladiators having extra fat to help them survive. I googled and found this. It isn't exactly the same thing I am asking about, but I connected the two and got curious. Thanks.

Quote:

The vegetarian diet had nothing to do with poverty or animal rights. Gladiators, it seems, were fat. Consuming a lot of simple carbohydrates, such as barley, and legumes, like beans, was designed for survival in the arena. Packing in the carbs also packed on the pounds. “Gladiators needed subcutaneous fat,” Grossschmidt explains. “A fat cushion protects you from cut wounds and shields nerves and blood vessels in a fight.” Not only would a lean gladiator have been dead meat, he would have made for a bad show. Surface wounds “look more spectacular,” says Grossschmidt. “If I get wounded but just in the fatty layer, I can fight on,” he adds. “It doesn’t hurt much, and it looks great for the spectators.”

[H1N1]

(03-20-2016 04:05 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

Alright time for another random question. I know, I know, not another one...

I saw some big guys at the gym today. Not muscular just big. Lots of belly fat.

Anyone know how much that helps to absorb/minimize damage? If you punched/kicked to the stomach, would it really hurt at all?

I remember reading about gladiators having extra fat to help them survive. I googled and found this. It isn't exactly the same thing I am asking about, but I connected the two and got curious. Thanks.

Quote:

The vegetarian diet had nothing to do with poverty or animal rights. Gladiators, it seems, were fat. Consuming a lot of simple carbohydrates, such as barley, and legumes, like beans, was designed for survival in the arena. Packing in the carbs also packed on the pounds. “Gladiators needed subcutaneous fat,” Grossschmidt explains. “A fat cushion protects you from cut wounds and shields nerves and blood vessels in a fight.” Not only would a lean gladiator have been dead meat, he would have made for a bad show. Surface wounds “look more spectacular,” says Grossschmidt. “If I get wounded but just in the fatty layer, I can fight on,” he adds. “It doesn’t hurt much, and it looks great for the spectators.”

It's a perfectly good question. And it touches on something that CBW hinted at in the other thread, and which I've skirted around too. The fact of the matter is that sheer weight makes a big difference. 270lbs is a fuck of a lot of weight just to have leaning on you, and having to try to shift it in a small space is not going to be easy. Carrying around that much bulk just by itself is going to make you stronger over time too.

It is a reason bouncers tend to carry 'spare' weight. It certainly helps to absorb punishment - think about what it's like when you're working the pads for a fighter and wearing one of the punch pads round your belly - you can take good shots from good fighters without too much trouble. Carrying a bunch of fat is a bit like that, in that a punch has to penetrate that bit further before it can shift an organ around and fuck up your day.

This is why the point is that one should get out of the frame of mind of 'can I win a fair fight against someone X lbs bigger than me?'. The answer noone wants to have to accept is that if you're going to fight someone much bigger than you then you're not in a fair fight. There's this pervading myth that so long as everyone is unarmed then somehow it is a fair fight. If someone has more than about 20lbs on you, you have no business being in unarmed combat with them unless you are experienced enough to have stacked the odds in your favour - ie you can create some kind of distracting obstacle that gets you a clear shot, or you can sucker punch them. Failing that, you need a blade. Even a baton is likely just to annoy a behemoth of a man. An Axe handle/hockey stick etc may do the trick though if you put enough malice into the first swing.

Someone bigger and stronger is going to grab you and hold you, quite possibly outside your effective range. The answer to that is to run a sharp blade from their elbow to their wrist or to get low, and drive up for their heart, or something of that nature. This is a big part of why I preach that you should always try to be kind and polite - winning at real violence requires you to be incredibly ruthless, and to escalate up the force continuum before the other guy(s) if you're in any doubt about your ability to win. This is not something to be done lightly, and the implications even if you win are serious. If you fight with dangerous people, it is always the case that you must be prepared to kill first. Most guys are seriously misguided about the real nature of violence and consequently get themselves into trouble. Really dangerous guys don't get into a lot of fights, because they know the stakes. Most of the fights you see out and about are between amateurs, idiots who don't know any better, or guys who are just looking to blow off steam with a bit of a dust up without any real bad intentions. These confrontations can be avoided and if engaged in are acts of indulgence for the ego. The situations which have to be thought long and hard on, and prepared for in advance, are the situations where someone big and mean won't let you let something go.

[Saweeep]

^^^ Fabulous reply, as usual H1.

A month or so back I went to see one of my kickboxing buddies teaching a class. He fancies himself as some sort of martial expert. I think he knows very little, but compared to the general population, he probably is.

Anyway, it was the end of the class and he was teaching some of his acolytes some self defence moves. Specifically a defence to a two handed neck grab. Classic self defence nonsense. Thing is, amongst the students themselves it was working...because they were all of roughly the same size; 70-85kg I reckon, average height. And of course, they really wanted it to work.

I can't resist getting involved in these things so asked some of the students to try resisting my grip. Without putting much effort in, none of them could. Obviously my friend then wanted a go...

I put a little effort in this time...picked him up by his neck, charged him across the room, slammed him into the wall and held him on his tiptoes (I didn't want to actually kill him) till he submitted. It really took very little effort and there was absolutely nothing he could do. His levers weren't long enough and he wasn't anywhere near strong enough to do anything about it.

I wouldn't normally do something like this but nothing annoys me more than people teaching students shit that doesn't work. I felt it my duty, as a legitimate self defence instructor myself, to demonstrate the limitations of the technique.


Moral of the story...you can be a very experienced, deadly-in the ring-@ 70kg Kickboxer...just don't go getting into fracas with guys who have 6 inches and 40kg on you. Nothing I did was beyond the ability of any man my size with a functioning body.

[samsamsam]

***pulls out calculator***

88 fucking lbs difference, holy shit.

[Saweeep]

(03-20-2016 09:37 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

***pulls out calculator***

88 fucking lbs difference, holy shit.

Yeah it's a game changer haha.

Something similar happened a few years ago to me out in the wild.

My mum was having some dispute or another with some guy she had paid for some work at home who wouldn't give her a receipt (I never found out why)...she'd blocked his van onto the driveway at home as a result and called me (eldest son duties).

When I got there...well I wasn't entirely sure what had gone on but this dude was sitting in his van with his buddy, waving the receipt at my mum saying she couldn't have it till she moved her car. She said she wasn't going to move the car till she had the receipt. Classic stand off.

I'm a nice guy so I opened his door to ask what on earth was the problem and my mum leaned under my arm and grabbed the receipt. This little fella was straight out of the van and wrapped his arms around my mum trying to wrestle her to the floor or something for this scrap of paper.

Obviously, I couldn't allow that so I grabbed him and flung him into the side of his van and held him in place with one hand by his neck.

All I remember is his little arms attempting to throw punches at me and me saying "Calm down little man...I don't want to have to hurt you" over and over as his fists didn't reach within 6 inches of my face. Of course, his friend stayed rooted to his seat in the van (and matey was lucky he did for that would have been the end of him for a few minutes...no way was I going to be fighting two people at once).

Eventually he got the message and everything calmed down; I moved my mum's car and all was well in the world.

Thing is, that dude could have ended up seriously hurt. I'm restrained and understand the power I can generate and the damage it can do. Lots of people would have just lost it completely at some workman touching their mother.

He just didn't realise how dangerous a situation he had put himself into I don't think. The fear in his eyes when it dawned on him how powerless he was is something I'll never forget.

He was probably about 5'10, 80kgs, mid 40s. Not a fair fight.

[H1N1]

Dimitar Savatinov just dumbbell pressed 308lbs over his head. Think about that, and the implications of such a man getting his hands on you. This is someone so monstrously strong that they can literally lift the weight of two averagely sized human beings overhead with one hand. It is absurd to think that somehow if you're both unarmed then you're in a fair fight.

Our ancestors have spent the entirety of recorded human history trying to extend the effective range at which we can kill our enemies. It is almost churlish to insist on unarmed combat (as opposed to sport fighting which is just good wholesome fun) when these wonderful and effective tools exist for mitigating the otherwise insurmountable effects of facing combat with a physically superior enemy.

[Saweeep]

^^^

Just watched that on youtube...thanks for the heads up. Amazing stuff. His grip strength must be simply unbelievable.

When my little brother was a kid, maybe 12/13 (I was about 21), for a bit of fun I used to wrestle him and all of his mates...all at once. (My friends and I used to hire large bouncy castles and have full contact "last man standing" competitions on them during the daytime before going out on the piss. We would play wrestle with the younger lads afterwards as a reward for them bringing beers for time outs.) I can imagine it would feel somewhat similar for this guy if he was to have a friendly play fight with a normal, fully grown man.

At the end of the day there's a reason beyond the intimidation factor that Door Staff are invariably brawn over skill.

[nek]

What's the point of the sanctioning bodies in boxing (WBO, WBC, WBA, IBF, IBO, etc.)? They seem mostly pointless to me.

[Saweeep]

(03-27-2016 01:02 AM)nek Wrote:  

What's the point of the sanctioning bodies in boxing (WBO, WBC, WBA, IBF, IBO, etc.)? They seem mostly pointless to me.

The concept in itself is sound. All sports should really have governing bodies.

It's the execution and rampant, in your face corruption, that is the problem with boxing.

This is surely a case though of "be careful what you wish for" and "better the devil you know" as my sports, kickboxing/muay thai have literally thousands of "governing bodies" all issuing titles left right and centre.

It's a running joke in England about everyone knowing personally a "Kickboxing World Champion".

A guy I know used to train at my gym. He was athletic but had no natural fighting instinct. This frustrated him. He was average.

Anyway, he left to go train somewhere else as he couldn't handle not being as good as he wanted and the next thing I heard was a Facebook post of him in his new "England Kickboxing Squad" tracksuit.

It turned out that the gym he had joined were part of some Mickey Mouse organisation of a handful of clubs from across Europe; some Alphabet soup organisation I'd never even heard of, despite a lifetime in the game.

Of course, he did well in this tournament ending up taking 2nd place.

"2nd Best Kickboxer in the World" was his Facebook status.

He wasn't even the 2nd Best in my gym.

[SuperBock]

CBW, you seem to be well into the KB/MT scene and it's s small enough sport, I wonder if we know any of the same people?

Back in the late 90's I was in the midlands and started FC kickboxing under Steve Humphries in Evesham, he was in with Paul Hennessy/WKA at the time and had some good guys training at the gym, Stuart Green, Chris Ballard, Ginger Hooper, John Bartlett, Ricky Glover, Mike O'connor.

I Used to fight on shows around the country and other names I'd come across were Phil Williams & Eugene Valerio from Chester way, Ricky Nicholson, Gordon Minors and Dylan Williams from Wales, Kash Gill, Kirk walker, Peter crooke from Birmingham,Eval Denton from Manchester, Shane Stanton from Essex etc etc but these are all old names now.

In 2000 I came back home to SE and started MT with a Thai named Samit, he was a really good Thai trainer and I did some Amateur Boxing too. I had 6 Thai fights before my last in 2003.
Fought Mostly on Alan Keddles Shows, but also up to Manchester on Master Sken show against a guy from Barry Norman/Sorthanikul, Leicester Square against Bill Judd/KO gym fighter, and also fighters from Lumpini Crawley and nomads gym. The two 'big gyms' in Thai at that time were keddles and beastmasters and other names I remember were Tony Moore, master Toddy, Pele Nathan, Ashley Guishard, Johnny Roye, Danien Trainor, Warren Brown, keiron keddle, Richard Fenwick, Michael Showers, Paulo da silva, the wakelings. Sean Toomey was another local trainer, too many names to list really.

Not so many good Thai shows on now, a lot of fighters and spectators moving to MMA I think.

Anyway, any names there you know?

[Saweeep]

Loads mate.

It's a small world...although even more fractured and decentralised than during the 90s (I was a teenager back then though).

[SuperBock]

Yeah it is a joke really, it seems even what used to be decent belts like ISKA/WAKO/WMTO are diluted now.

Names on and size of a fighters record are a better guage than any titles, so those that know, know.

I noted previously somewhere, were about the same age.

[Beyond Borders]

Anyone here who has lived in Thailand ever looked into Muay Chaiya?

[Ringo]

Polaris 3 will be on this weekend. Is anyone buying the £15 stream?

I didn't buy the package but rewatching the matches Polaris 2 was very entertaining.

This one's main event is Garry Tonon x Rousimar "Toquinho" Palhares. Shields x Agazarm and Gianni Grippo x Frazatto should be awesome aswell.

[Gregor]

Stumbled upon this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZyxxipb1Mg (starts at 1:37) on facing multiple attackers.

It looks like an interesting tool if you can pull off a proper Muay Thai clinch with knees. Gives you a field of view and a human shield. A knee to the face or liver does wonders to ones fighting spirit.
Although preferably knocking one or two out with elbows or sucker punches and running for the hills.

On the other hand, you can escape a clinch with knowledge and practice in addition to being stabbed if you don't notice what's in the guy's hands. Furthermore, weight difference and bad positioning can get you hurt.
And it just doesn't seem realistic at the speed and ferocity of a street fight.

What do you guys think?

[cascadecombo]

The video looks nice and all but he didn't mention much about if they go for a takedown from the clinch.

Apparently the style I studied was one of the first to show the effectiveness of the clinch, learn something knew every day.

However my first idea to defend against that wasn't in the video so while looking I found another video.

Watching this makes it look like escaping from a clinch is far easier than I thought.

I personally would look to sweep single the guy who puts me in a clinch, but I'd be worried about possibly eating a knee to the face in the transition.

[EDantes]

What's your guys opinion on practicing martial arts at home?

Was in a Tae Kwon Do class for about a year but had to quit due to financial difficulties; wouldn't mind practicing at home (don't have a partner to practice with) but have the impression it's a waste of time except just as a workout routine.