[Deviant]

Thanks guys, lots of great info and opinions.

I do have to admit that the FOBBY type of Indian guys that I've seen in the Bay are generally hopeless. In terms of dress sense, body language, accent, etc., they really shoot themselves in the feet. I consider myself pretty confident and well dressed, and having been born and raised in the U.S., I haven't had to deal with those same issues. I have groups of both Indian American friends and Caucasian friends; and I will agree that the Indian guys who exclusively hang out with other Indians tend to do pretty badly with the opposite sex in my experience

I think a big part of it is the industry you work in here. Most (not all) of the engineers I know in the Bay, including SF, are pretty nerdy and herby; it's an understatement to say that their game is weak. I work in the technology industry also, but in a sales function; so my social skills have to be on point or I'm sleeping on the street....

But if we consider that so many of the guys in SF are herby nerds who lack social skills, doesn't that make it even easier for guys who actually have game? I feel like it's a huge competitive advantage in SF given the situation.

[DLuzhin]

I'm also brown (Afghani/Pakistani), lived in SF for three years, still have a few friends there. The city's all about rep, image, and looks. You can do all you can in terms of game, but unless you're a DJ, musician, or whatever, you're at a huge disadvantage. Girls in the city want trophy hookups/boyfriends, even the ones that aren't that hot.

I couldn't post this before, but now that I can:

Why There Are No Girls in San Francisco: 6's/7's Who Think They Are 9's
http://whytherearenogirls.blogspot.com/2...re-9s.html

[haywire]

(09-29-2011 12:02 AM)Deviant Wrote:  

Thanks guys, lots of great info and opinions.

I do have to admit that the FOBBY type of Indian guys that I've seen in the Bay are generally hopeless. In terms of dress sense, body language, accent, etc., they really shoot themselves in the feet. I consider myself pretty confident and well dressed, and having been born and raised in the U.S., I haven't had to deal with those same issues. I have groups of both Indian American friends and Caucasian friends; and I will agree that the Indian guys who exclusively hang out with other Indians tend to do pretty badly with the opposite sex in my experience

I think a big part of it is the industry you work in here. Most (not all) of the engineers I know in the Bay, including SF, are pretty nerdy and herby; it's an understatement to say that their game is weak. I work in the technology industry also, but in a sales function; so my social skills have to be on point or I'm sleeping on the street....

Looks like you're in pretty good shape and it's all a matter of putting yourself out there and finding your niche. Like I said earlier, there are different districts with different vibes in SF so it's important to find out where your ROI will be max. SF aint no NY both in terms of quality and quantity, but I've yet to meet a guy who struggled to find a date here.

Quote:

But if we consider that so many of the guys in SF are herby nerds who lack social skills, doesn't that make it even easier for guys who actually have game? I feel like it's a huge competitive advantage in SF given the situation.

To some extent. The thing is there aren't equal number of females to match the geek population. A lot of these geeks moved to SF from different places and it's not that they brought females along. So while they are harmless in that they don't do much damage, they don't quite help the numbers. Get my point?

[oldnemesis]

(09-28-2011 05:19 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

How many mixed-race couples do you see in SF - even in a Tech central place like SF?

There is quite a lot of white male - Asian female mixed couples.

Quote:

Go to 25 Lusk on a Friday after work hours. Take some pictures of all of these "liberal and non-racist" white women who are kicking it with Indian and other non-white guys.

This is what I explained above - vast majority of Indian guys here in Bay Area really suck with girls. Some are doing pretty well though.

[MikeCF]

(09-29-2011 05:22 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(09-28-2011 05:19 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

How many mixed-race couples do you see in SF - even in a Tech central place like SF?

There is quite a lot of white male - Asian female mixed couples.

Men are less racist than women. http://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2007...race-male/

Your response is therefore irrelevant to my initial point, namely that white women are discriminatory against Indian men.

[OGNorCal707]

Wow, never realized we had so many bay area people on this forum, this turned out to be a pretty good thread. I've never lived in SF, but would like to one day and have spent a decent amount of time there, although not really enough to get a real grasp of the women, nightlife, dating, pick up scene there. My one lay in SF came from an "underground" dub step warehouse party somewhere in an industrial area of the Bayview. I ended up fucking this Mexican chick in the back of her truck after grinding on her for like 5 mins., she wasn't that attractive (prob. a 5), but we were both on MDMA.

As far as all the comments here, I will agree that from what I've seen a lot of the game you'll run, quality of women, and prominent style depend on the neighborhood. There are by far way more hot women in the Marina, but as a lot of you know, the women tend to be the more rich, white, yuppie, preppy, over achiever types, and tend to go for that kind of guy. Whereas in the Mission you'll find less typically "hot chicks", and there's more of a hipster, artist, counter culture vibe, mixed in with the Latin vibe since it's a heavily Mexican/Latin community.

So if you're decked out in Banana Rep. you'll probably do better in the Marina, but if you're a hipster in skinny jeans with gagged ears and tats, than Mission will be kinder to you.

As far as the racism thing goes, the bay area does seem to be very diverse and overall I'd say an Indian guy or any ethnicity would probably stand a better chance than they would in most cities in the south, midwest, or even the east coast. That said a lot of the typical "hot successful" white women in the city tend to date the typical handsome, successful, preppy white guy, but that kind of goes for any where.

Sure there will be white women who will have a thing for black dudes, latin guys, or be down to try any other ethnicity, but that kind of exists everywhere (esp. with white women/black men).

Someone mentioned something about online game in San Francisco, and I think that's really where it's at. There are a shit ton of cute women on okcupid, and it seems like online dating is most excepted, used, and mainstream in the bay area, more than anywhere else that I've ever seen or heard about.

I'm up in the "emerald triangle" and while I'm in a college town, online game is virtually dead here, and the handful of cute girls online are bombarded by dudes who are super thirsty, and it causes these girls to think they're celebrities or some shit, so I don't even bother.

Every guy I know in SF or the bay who has an online dating profile has gotten laid from that shit, it's almost like you'd have to be extremely ugly or a complete social retard to not get laid from it.

As for the quality of women in SF, I wouldn't say it's really that impressive, but what's sad is that it's waaay better than where I live. The simple rule is that a girl here, goes down one point in the bay, and two points down in SoCal. Someone posted something about SF women who are 6's acting like 9's, I'd say that's a little extreme. That in a nutshell is the phenomenon that is taking place in my town. I will say that there aren't many 9-10's at all in SF, but ton's of girls in the 6-8 range, which isn't great, but those are realistically the women I'm most likely to succeed with.

All in all, I'd like to maybe hear about some guys actual experiences pulling women and dating women in San Francisco, and their take on how easy/challenging it is, and the quality of women they've pulled.

[nomadicdude]

I use to be an SFer for several years and I'm of Indian descent but born in the US. The thing with the Indian FOB programmers is that they are the extreme of the worst type of Indian guys on Earth. They are fresh off the boat from India, they come to the US to study some nerdy subject like CS, then they move to the biggest nerd cock festival in the planet in Silicon Valley. They never have learned how to act around girls and in the end their mom will get them an arranged marriage to some chick in India. It's all just pathetic and makes me freaking sick. But just because the FOB Indian guys can't get shit doesn't mean SF is bad for non-white guys.

Overall, chicks in SF are more open minded than lots of places. Sure there are lots of stupid blond bitches who just go to the Marina to get banged by some frat dickhead, but overall I'd say as long as you don't act FOB you can do all right in SF. There are lots of educated chicks with masters degrees or better so having an advanced degree is a huge plus, especially with the American born Asian, Indian and Persian chicks.

[DLuzhin]

Well, there are definitely some great things about girls in San Francisco. They tend to be more open-minded, intelligent, cultured, sexually adventurous, somewhat promiscuous, and very open to casual dating. They don't care about money or higher education so long as you're smart and interesting. They by and large don't care that you're ethnic so long as you are cultured and like and do the right things. In terms of attractiveness, while there aren't that many 9-10's like you'd see in LA, there are lots and lots of 7's--which is, indeed, pretty great. A way of putting it statistically would be that there are fewer outliers, but a higher mean of attractivess. Like most Norcal cities, they are less superficial in SF, but more elitist. Roosh at one point described how some girls have as their romantic 'type' the very interesting bum. If you are an interesting bum who is impassioned about some great thing you are doing, go to San Francisco and work in a coffee shop or something, they will love you there and you will be a pimp. Roosh himself would do great in San Francisco.

When I lived in San Francisco most of my hookups were friends of my platonic girl friends that I met at house parties or informal gatherings. I guess the term for that is "pivot" or something.

[Saladin]

(09-29-2011 05:33 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(09-29-2011 05:22 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(09-28-2011 05:19 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

How many mixed-race couples do you see in SF - even in a Tech central place like SF?

There is quite a lot of white male - Asian female mixed couples.

Men are less racist than women. http://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2007...race-male/

Your response is therefore irrelevant to my initial point, namely that white women are discriminatory against Indian men.

They're racist against nerdy Indian FOBs.
I'm Indian and a dude and I don't ever hang out those kind of guys.

That doesn't make me racist in any way. Of course any half decent girl who's not a FOB herself will avoid the nerdy Indian dudes in terms of dating.

In fact, I have a theory regarding interracial dating. A girl will prefer to date in her race when looking for a boyfriend material kind of guy(aka, a somewhat average guy in their social circle).

However, once you get past that level of mediocrity and into the realm of solid game it starts to matter way less. The girl will rationalize it in some way or other. My Asian buddy told me that a girl asked if he was half white(he's full Asian). Another girl told him he's the first cool Asian she's met. Once you reach that level of cool, the rationalization hamsters will be in full force and all her "preferences" get thrown out of the window.

Hell, it even happened with my buddy's sister when some Indian dude was gaming her. She said she would never date an Indian guy and then she started falling for this Indian dude at her school who has great game. Of course, my friend knew what exactly he was doing and he told his sister to friend zone him which she did.

Therefore this isn't something guys have to worry about and it doesn't serve any guy well to think race matters. If you admit it does matter it means that you think your game isn't tight enough. Its a case of "If you think its true, then it is true".

I hope this puts an end to the whole "white women are racist against Indian guys" debate.

[stein]

Your race can lead a girl to stereotype you, but being more presentable, and developing your verbal Game can trump any such difference. I was out in SF this past weekend around the bars on Polk St. and saw both types of Indian guys.

Type 1:
- They were dressed down in a casual shirt/jeans and looked like they went to work in the same kind of attire. Hair wasn't styled.
- Hung out in homogenous, all-male groups with other Indian guys that matched the same profile
- Drank and smiled amongst themselves. Looked around a lot. Soft-spoken. Often spoke in Hindi.
- They looked harmless sitting on their bar-stools. Non-imposing physique.
- They did no approaches. Zero. And no girls opened them. When drunk girls bumped into them, they smiled shyly.

Type 2:
- Edgy style (styled hair, well-fitted tee/shirt, well-fitted jeans, stylish kicks). I saw one with gagged ears, beater etc. the following day. The look reflects how they had fully embraced the local culture.
- This dude hung with a mixed group. Almost every time, he was the token Indian in a group of white friends, and meshed very well.
- Looked like he worked out: Slim, broad shoulders, good posture, leaned back, stood tall. No big muscles but no trace of a pot belly.
- In every instance, I saw this type of dude talking to a white girl in a mixed group, with the girl yapping most of the time
- Gave off the vibe that he was born and brought up in the area.

The difference lies in body language, voice tone (clear+loud), and most importantly: being able to relate to a local girl. A lot of Indians who immigrate to Silicon Valley discover the bar/club culture for the first time in their lives, and don't have any footing in how to relate with the locals. They didn't watch the same TV shows growing up, didn't share the same cultural memes, their studies were everything and didn't get with their high-school crush. Now they are in a foreign land and afraid of getting out of their comfort zone. This is why these unfriendly social stereotypes have emerged.

In my experience, white girls in SF engaged both type of guys politely. I saw one sitting on a couch talking to a "FOB" (I don't like that word) for several minutes. The South Bay Area (San Jose etc.) reinforces the stereotype a lot more and girls seem to be less "open" here, but if you can refine your first appearance (dress, physique, posture, hair, speech) they will engage you. You will have the all-important first two minutes to make your initial pitch. Relate, drop bait, make her laugh and work your way in. The thicker your skin, the faster you improve.

[stein]

Getting back to the discussion, this past weekend, I looked up Sugar's suggestions and explored the bars on Polk St. I skipped the college/sports type bars and checked out the others. Two places stood out

1. Rouge
- This is a club with a decent-sized dance floor and reddish lighting that played the top 40 hip hop songs. There were a few people early on and the ratio was nice, but then the I liked it and will return. I engaged 3 girls and all three were very friendly. They had an open dance floor with spotted disco lights and I really enjoyed dancing there. After 11:30, large groups of guys started pouring in and the guy-girl ratio took a nosedive. I ran out of targets and left but I'll be back. Places with red lighting seem to be my thing for some reason.

2. Bullitt
- This is a dark, crowded, noisy bar just down from Rouge. I got here after 11:30 and found every girl in set and a lot of guys twiddling their thumbs. Bad guy/girl ratio last Saturday but I'll be back because the vibe wasn't bad and I saw quite a few drunk make-outs.

Re: Dress Sense: While I opted for slacks and a formal shirt - Every other guy was dressed in club shirts/v-neck tees and jeans. The guys who got the most attention had an edge to their appearance such as: gagged ears, tattoos, piercings, styled hair, skater-punk shoes etc. I saw a few black guys and they opted for the jeans, sweater, shirt, boots look and got limited play.

I could only check the northern half between Union and Clay but I will head south towards Bush St. next time.

[DH-Godzilla]

Lots of cute asian girls at Club Temple, the ratio can be shitty at times though.

[DLuzhin]

I've never been in Rouge because it has a cover and I would rather eat pizza next door, but "I'm going out" blazers are looked at with a great deal of suspicion, moreso if it's Friday or Saturday and the area is swarmed with bridge-and-tunnelers. It's unnecessary to get decked out for the city unless it's something you always do.

From the three or so hours I spent there last weekend Walnut Creek is, like, babe-land.

[oldnemesis]

(09-29-2011 05:33 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Men are less racist than women. http://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2007...race-male/

Your response is therefore irrelevant to my initial point, namely that white women are discriminatory against Indian men.

Now you're talking. See, there is a big difference between "the women are really biased against non-whites" and "white women are discriminatory against Indian men"; you can thank other Indian men for that. What does it mean? You have to work harder.

[Blackhawk]

Burritt Room is good on Fri and Saturday. But watch out for conventions --the week of Oracle World those circulating convention buses made everywhere they went into a wall-to-wall dick party of sales guys from Idaho.

Yes, you have to enter the hotel and walk up to the second floor (stairs on the left) to get to it. Drinks are tiny and overpriced, but well made with fresh ingredients and potent.

Mostly middle class working girls from the shops, restaurants, and hair salons in the area. As they get off shift they filter in for a drink, waiting for the subway to get less crowded.

[Blackhawk]

See also my comments in this thread: http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-6017.html

[DiabloBravo]

Haha. All your comments are great. You right on the money in the marina district. I live about 90 minutes from SF. I do surprising well there for the lack of effort. My friends that live in the city are amazed. I'm Latino. The fact that I'm light-skinned and over six foot helps. I am the "exotic" one and have the Italian/Spanish darker European look that I guess would put me at the top of the Totem Pole of Race. Considering I'm third-generation, its weird for me to think I'm exotic. If you can't pass as white, take a cool white friend and you will get validation.

I notice Filipinos that dress well, do well. Dressing well consists of wearing form fitting clothes that match. Nothing too big. Yes, they do attack you! The sad part is most guys there can't even do that.

Sadly, Indian dudes have no luck. Even the Americanized Indians have no clue. They will still go out in groups and act horny and stupid. I don't get it.

[Stun]

(10-03-2011 05:36 PM)stein Wrote:  

Getting back to the discussion, this past weekend, I looked up Sugar's suggestions and explored the bars on Polk St. I skipped the college/sports type bars and checked out the others. Two places stood out

1.
- This is a club with a decent-sized dance floor and reddish lighting that played the top 40 hip hop songs. There were a few people early on and the ratio was nice, but then the I liked it and will return. I engaged 3 girls and all three were very friendly. They had an open dance floor with spotted disco lights and I really enjoyed dancing there. After 11:30, large groups of guys started pouring in and the guy-girl ratio took a nosedive. I ran out of targets and left but I'll be back. Places with red lighting seem to be my thing for some reason.

2.
- This is a dark, crowded, noisy bar just down from Rouge. I got here after 11:30 and found every girl in set and a lot of guys twiddling their thumbs. Bad guy/girl ratio last Saturday but I'll be back because the vibe wasn't bad and I saw quite a few drunk make-outs.

Re: Dress Sense: While I opted for slacks and a formal shirt - Every other guy was dressed in club shirts/v-neck tees and jeans. The guys who got the most attention had an edge to their appearance such as: gagged ears, tattoos, piercings, styled hair, skater-punk shoes etc. I saw a few black guys and they opted for the jeans, sweater, shirt, boots look and got limited play.

I could only check the northern half between Union and Clay but I will head south towards Bush St. next time.

Rouge is a good place, but it is only open on Saturday night. Other nights it is just "Nicks Crispy Tacos" and doesn't get too busy. Sunday's during football are packed, but I am not really a big gamer via day time pickup in bars.

Bullitt can be hit or miss. It is certainly one of the more popular places on Polk. I don't think the bar is really that well suited to pickup, but you can do worse. I've taken D1/D2s there, but never pulled a SNL there.

Honestly I think the best part of Polk is right around Bush/Sutter. You have McTeague, R Bar, Mayes, Lush Lounge, and Vertigo, all of which are conducive to pulling. R Bar is a little neighborhood-y in the sense that some nights it seems like everyone knows each other. It's also small. Lush Lounge is a little chill for pickup, but I still see guys approaching in there all the time.

The Marina on a whole is a good spot, but I would agree it's a little more "white-friendly." Pulling in the Marina if you're Asian or Indian is sort of like being the black guy in a job interview. I have both Indian and Chinese wings, and I have seen their blowout rates in the Marina vs other parts of the city. It is much higher in the Marina.

The statement about the ratio going way downhill after 12:30 - welcome to SF - or maybe the world. This especially bad in the Marina. You want to get out by 10pm.

Re Manor West, I have never been there but I hear from some PU guys that it's great. Consistently hot girls and a good pickup place. I haven't heard much about MW lately though, so not sure if it's still good.

Regarding having an edge to your style, yeah that is another SF fact of life. If you can add something edgy to an other wise good outfit, you are in good shape. If you are buff, I think you can get away with a tight t shirt and maybe some bling of some kind. If not, I would dress Zara or H+M, wear a cool jacket, maybe some cool shoes (harder to notice) do something with your hair, try slacks over jeans. Do something to separate yourself. I once wore a bachelorette's crown wrapped around my forearm as a bracelet, and I got nearly twice the attention as usual. Who knew.

[Blackhawk]

NightLife @ the California Academy of Sciences (facebook page) (old article) is a "young professionals" night. ie single office girls. About 20% east indian girls, rest white. The only black girls are there with their white boyfriend.

Thursdays at 6pm sharp, and show up early because everyone is carded (must be 21 to enter)
$12 parking, $12 admission.

Don't waste time getting a drink when you enter. There are no drinks or food allowed in the best part of the museum: A giant four story tall glass sphere with a rainforest inside. Entrance stops promptly at 7:30pm and they turn the lights out at 8pm. It's hot, humid, and full of butterflies. Dumb girls get excited that a butterfly might land on them. Everyone will be shedding jackets and sweaters because it's so damn hot. Bring a camera. Take pictures. Linger. Talk about the stupid butterflies, what flowers they think the butterflies seem to like, and where birds nests might be. Quite a lot of girls flow past while you hang out on the ramps.



You'll notice below there's a pool with lots of large fish, and a tube with people in it running through the middle of it. You'll be exiting there. Will cover that later. If you see a hot chick there give up. You will NEVER catch up to her in time. It's just too far.

In the dark area on the third floor there's aquariums and cages with hard to see insects in them. Opener, "Did you find one?" Chicks love the poison dart frogs, not so much the cage full of spiders.

Once you walk to the top you take an elevator to the basement. It exits into the tube with the fish above. There's spotting sheets in boxes on the walls at the end of the tunnel. Take one, sit down next to a cutie, and open with spotting the different fish from the sheet with her. Most of the girls will be talking about where they're going next after this event closes at 10pm. Easy to ask them what's cool and where everyone is going next.



Around the corner to the left is a bar with cocktails and wine. Only drink white or clear --your elbow will get jogged a lot here. There's also the petting zoo where you can pet starfish, sea cucumbers and such.

Now the rest of the space is a maze of jellyfish and hard to spot insects in different small windows, along with a couple of large walls. Good place to hang out with a drink. Up until 8:30pm the aquarium is the place to be. The wall of eels with the cleaner shrimp running around cleaning the eels and not getting eaten by them fascinates girls for some reason.



The main floor has an ear shattering band in the atrium, an ear shattering DJ past that, and arts-and-crafts things girls will line up for in the African room. The last is pretty good.

Around 9pm the roof becomes active. You're allowed to bring your drinks, but not food. The left elevator goes all the way, the right elevator stops below and you have to walk up one set of stairs. There will be a telescope and staff talking about the stars. Most people are up there just looking out at the city at night.

Crowd is moderately drunk after 8pm. Closes at 10pm, which is reasonable for those that have to work the next day.

[chyamor]

General Question. Whats the best way to see the 49 Mile Scenic Drive route?
would http://www.gocartours.com be a good option? or should I stick to bus/trolley/tour guide bus
How long does it take if I go with the car/gocart option?

[Hispanic_Reasoning]

whatever you do, don't go to the club, City-Nights on harrison st. that place isn't good. that place gets a ghetto crowd at times, and ghetto people fuck up everything. and oh yeah, go to clubs that are 21 and up, they are usually better than the 18 and up clubs.

[chyamor]

can a local or someone with SF knowledge please answer my gocar question? I'd like to either book gocart or all day double decker bus ticket before they sell out.

I'd like to do the gocar since its going to be my buddy and I, but I have no idea how the traffic and parking work with those.

I dont mind the double decker bus tours but they run every 30 or so minutes which really limits how much you can see. I'm trying to see as much as possible in 1 day and then go back and visit 2-3 specific places the next day.

[WestCoast]

(05-15-2013 08:28 AM)chyamor Wrote:  

can a local or someone with SF knowledge please answer my gocar question? I'd like to either book gocart or all day double decker bus ticket before they sell out.

I'd like to do the gocar since its going to be my buddy and I, but I have no idea how the traffic and parking work with those.

I dont mind the double decker bus tours but they run every 30 or so minutes which really limits how much you can see. I'm trying to see as much as possible in 1 day and then go back and visit 2-3 specific places the next day.

Just use the bus. Those go car things are so its not even funny. Even if you don't care about that they are too slow, the annoyance of moving around etc is just not worth it. Stick with a regular bus or simply use your bus tour and then cab around if you get sick of it.

[Viagra_Falls]

the OP left out the Central Valley (the Stockton and Modesto areas are 1 hour from the east bay going out the 580). Girls there are easier and generally untainted by liberalism and status pretension, and no less ugly. Hit up the dating sites and you are good to go. Lots of cougs and latinas

[OSL]

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This is a good thread. I am interested in spending time in San Francisco to network with Silicon Valley types - mostly investors and potential technical partners.

-